PTS Closing? What happened to Merc/Mando changes Eric Musco??????

[Majspuffen]

I definitely have a team that supports me, brainstorms with me, and tests with me, but I do all of the design, implementation, and balance for all of the classes by myself. It is a daunting task.

 

You're doing a very poor job then, seeing as Class Balance was at its peak at 1.1 and has been going downhill ever since 1.2 with one FOTM class after another.

 

I don't get your design philosophy. Instead of demanding that people learn to play your game, you seem content to change the game itself to cater to the less skilled. And you seem completely unaware of the damage you cause in doing so. For example, I play a Jedi Shadow, Balance Spec. I loved the complexity, and the class when played properly wasn't bad for PvP. In 2.0, this class will be bad for PvP. We will lack any burst and our sustained damage will be crippled due to the removal of our unique way of managing force. But do you guys even care about that? You made the spec easier!! Surely more will play it now?

 

Similarly, the whining about Mercernaries before 1.2 wasn't exactly justified in my opinion. I for one never understood why people complained about them since they have ---ALWAYS--- been easy to shut down. It's just that people didn't bother to shut them down. They couldn't find their interrupt to save their lives (quite literally). As I saw it, Snipers had the best tools for controlling melee classes. Sorcerers had the best mobility. Mercenaries were durable.

 

The latter part has been removed from pvp. Only tanks are durable these days. You're going to have to change the entire class in order to save mercenaries. You are going to have to make them as mobile as sorcerers (that's not to say that sorcerers are viable at the moment. They are far too squishy).

 

The 1.3 and 1.4 changes made it glaringly obvious of who you cater to. Why do you want lesser skilled players to be on par with more skilled players? They never will be. Not through you changing the mechanics of the game. The only way they can become on par with better players is to become better themselves. What you do is to take the reward out of time and effort.

 

You're doing an awful job at balancing the classes, simply because you cater to idiots.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Majspuffen

[acerx]

So. No one logged into pts yesterday and noticed some of the "non mentioned' changes??

 

High velocity gas cylinder has had 5% more armor pen added, and the heat venting completely removed. So our heat management is now worse. Add in the final 2.0 changes of running the high heat cost HSM on the second gcd, and we're gonna be in real trouble in pve heat management as well as pvp.

 

Also note, as others have mentioned, we still have to spam casted abilities to proc barrage, and then the ability that buffs ( unload) is a long channel. So the back end damage of our rotation was pushed to the front, heat dissipation from cylinder was removed completely, and we are still a cast / channel spam class.

 

How in the hell does anyone possibly think these changes aren't going to negatively impact pve dps? Even without the final 2.0 change, and just the change to the cylinder, I was building heat almost twice as fast today. And they gave us one day to test that.

 

I was parsing in the 2500-2700 range on dummy. Now running 2300 with no change other then the heat diss being removed from our cylinder. Thats a dps nerf. Period. Sure, in pvp its not, cause most fights don't last that long, but since we're still the same cast / channel spamming toon that isn't viable for rwz, but with less heat diss, we're gonna be in the same boat we've always been, if not worse.

 

This is not a buff in any way, not even a side grade. Test it for yourself when it comes out. I spent all day on pts yesterday and there is just no way around it. They added heat diss to cylinder to help fix heat management in the first place, now it's been completely removed. And not a single note nor comment about it. For shame people. For shame

Edited March 26, 2013 by acerx

[Luceon]

[cut] I do note that both of you have trooper avatars, and the one with characters in their signature only has a commando....

 

Seriously comments like this just provide evidence that you make assumptions, not a far stretch to believe you are also making assumptions on the worth while nature of the recent changes. Jherad is one of the most skilled and experienced commando's there is and has spent a long time throwing ideas out (productive ones) for BW to use in more than one section but has been ignored (like the greater part of the commando forum base) in virtually every single thread dedicated to discussion of commando improvements. Not saying I would ever get as upset about it as he has however he pretty much has a right. What BW doesn't seem to realize is that as players we put just as much, if not more, time into this game as they do. We are dedicated to the game and to the characters, but when they tie the commando up to a hitch and drag them through town only to give them a pillow full of porcupines well expect some resistance.

 

Beggars can't be choosers.

 

Also there is this. I really hate this comment, even if I were homeless and someone offered me fries that were pissed on doesn't mean I'm just going to smile and take it. Drastic example aside, the commando has been unrealistically nerfed multiple times to the point that it is evident someone doesn't understand the design principles of a commando and thus their own job. Commando can still be played (in my opinion) but not for high end content (especially if acerx says comes true with launch) which singles out an entire AC for no good reason other than someone doesn't know their job. Also we are paying for this game, since when are we beggars? Begging constitutes expecting to be on par or close to other classes? Same goes for the other classes BW botched.

[Macroeconomics]

High velocity gas cylinder has had 5% more armor pen added, and the heat venting completely removed.

 

I'm not seeing that. I am on PTS right now. Armor pen is still 35%. Terminal Velocity still vents heat if you put skill points into it. Which you should. You still get the 3% heat dissipation bonus from alacrity on the high velocity gas cylinder.

 

The Merc skill which still doesn't work? Combustible Gas Cylinder. It still doesn't refresh properly with any skill other than Superheated Rail or Missile Salvo. A clear nerf vs. 1.7.

[Jayshames]

They said there will still be changes before 2.0 hits.

[DerTaran]

They said there will still be changes before 2.0 hits.

You will find these changes if you hit the small golden B in the top right corner.

Edited March 26, 2013 by DerTaran

[GeckoOBac]

I've been waiting since 1.2, I guess I can wait more. At least this time we didn't fall to the bottom of the heap, we just stayed there.

 

Still, I can't understand people that say we shouldn't ask for more... There ARE problems, that is irrefutable. Hell, I've seen classes WHINE for buffs when they were in the top spot cause sometimes they just had a hard counter. At least most of our requests are reasonable.

 

And to the guy who said "Beggars can't be choosers"... Do you REALLY believe that? Are we asking for food or starving here? Or are we paying like any other customer? What is it, snipers have more subbers than mandos? I hardly believe that.

[DerTaran]

I think we have to wait and see how the new commando/mercenary competes on 2.0

 

Many other ACs are complaining that they hit a nerf and we seem to be the only AC receiving a real buff (I really like it) plus many neat new utilities. This might not be enough, I agree (2 minutes cooldown???), but for the moment, I like to wait and see how my commando will do in PVP with the new capabilities.

Edited March 26, 2013 by DerTaran

[Mercury_Down]

While the "buff" to gunnery is certainly very welcome, it only marginally addresses the problem with only one of the three trees, and that is all the cast/channel abilties which can still be interrupted.

 

Thanks for the buff, but you nerfed the hell out of assault, and combat medic is still far behind the other healers.

 

I am glad to see this change at least appears to be based off suggestions in one of the many many many merc/mando threads, but let's actually address the class-wide issue: casting.

 

How about implementing Cash's proposed changes and lower the cooldown to tech override and reserve powercell and have two base charges to TO?

 

How about lowering the cooldown on electro-net?

 

How about allowing charged bolts to be cast on the move?

 

I still don't understand why you would nerf the sh*t out of assault and only slightly buff gunnery. The previously better PVP tree (and arguably better PVE DPS tree in 2.0) of assault is worse off than it was.

 

GG, but more needs to be done to address the issues of mercs and mandos.

 

Thanks!

Edited March 26, 2013 by Mercury_Down

[idnewton]

If one of the two Merc dps trees has been fixed (debatable) and the other has been trashed and left for dead, how does that translate into "Merc DPS in general has been fixed"?

 

Have I not made myself entirely clear how little of a **** I give about merc DPS?! I do not play it, nor do I ever plan to. It's a heck of a whole lot more fixed than merc heals. Unless merc heals has gotten a buff since the PTS closed and you didn't mention it here, refer to this post:

Eric Musco, any word please? I tested all three healing clases (and merc is the only level 50 I have on live which has a healing tree) and it is significantly weaker than the other two. Honestly if you stat right your numbers can be on par with the other two, but merc heals heat management still needs some help. Just add a simple skill like operatives have, like "Rapid Shots critical hits vent (1/2) heat while Combat Support Cylinder is active." A two point skill, a simple fix, a dramatic effect.

 

I spent a lot of time leveling my mercenary. He's currenly rotting in the garbage because of how bad merc heals are. I already have sniper as my main rDPS, so there isn't any point in respeccing him either.

Edited March 26, 2013 by idnewton

[ArchangelLBC]

You assume I was talking to you. You assume wrong.

 

You assume that he only cares about hypocrisy when it's directed at him. I, personally, was bothered by the hypocrisy no matter who it's directed at.

 

Beggars can't be choosers.

 

Wouldn't that go directly to your complaint about merc healers? Remember, as they proved with the assault/pyro changes, nerfs are always on the table. Oh wait you want actual meaningful improvements probably I'd think. Or am I just assuming?

 

 

Read what I said. There are a few good ways to help PvP Mercs, and this isn't one of them.

 

Yes, and I'm still waiting to hear why it isn't. I'm not asking for permanent immunity. I'm asking for some. What's funny is that you suggested they give us Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line (which they already did) because you thought that in addition to the other wonderful things this ability does, it prevents interrupts (which it doesn't). Course you also said that last bit wouldn't matter too much while the previous paragraph saying that somehow it gave us "god-mode" to have such a thing. Temporary immunity is something which is given to both of the other turret classes/specs, and oddly enough to merc healers (though cooldowns for merc healers and TK sages is kind of crap).

 

You were also including some hefty assumptions on your own when you assumed that we all thought the class was bad because of our inability to reach it's potential, when really the problem is that in a high competitive environment its actual potential is quite low. Which is what we who have been talking about this for awhile call "the damn problem".

 

Is that how you define someone disagreeing with you?

 

That's what I call someone whose talking out of their butt. Which you clearly are when it comes to merc/commando DPS. Your ignorance is revealed in all of your points, and ignorance is ok, we're all ignorant at some point, but it means you probably should be keeping your ill informed opinions to yourself. Go get informed first on the problems with the class in a DPS role in a high level of play environment and then we can have a reasonable discussion.

 

No one said it better than you:

 

I find that to often be the case. Nevertheless, I was mostly pointing out that there wasn't a lot of people saying "Devs suck at their jobs" AFTER the posted change. I was correcting your apparent misconception of the order in which things happened. Because you were, you know, wrong.

 

Additionally,

 

An "attack" on an opinion is not the same as an attack on another member.

 

Lets see. You said that if we ran this game there'd be no game to unsub from, and then you said our attacks had no logic behind them. I note that my revealed logic isn't in your little point by point.

 

In summary,

 

This probably would have been seen and answered had the mercenary/trooper players not exploded over the mere mention of an opinion on the class's subject differing from theirs. I do note that both of you have trooper avatars, and the one with characters in their signature only has a commando....

 

HA! Do you know how long we've waited to get even that much from him? There have been other very well reasoned threads on Commando healing and those have all fallen by the wayside. You place a great more faith in the devs' willingness to respond than I do. I suggest you bump every relevant thread you can about merc healers, and then maybe consider calling Austin a doucher. At this point I'd say there's a 50% chance you just get nerfed though.

 

That's a cute little insinuation at the end there, but I have 3 level 50s. I've spent most of my PVP time on shadow for the past several months actually. First love is commando though.

 

Have I not made myself entirely clear how little of a **** I give about merc DPS?! I do not play it, nor do I ever plan to. It's a heck of a whole lot more fixed than merc heals. Unless merc heals has gotten a buff since the PTS closed and you didn't mention it here, refer to this post:

 

Listen dude you were the one saying that it was fixed, which it isn't. You could have just bowed out and said "guess I was wrong" or you could have defended your statement. If you don't care about Merc DPS that's a valid opinion but then why comment on it at all? You just saying "well what about merc healers we still have problems with <insert issues>" would actually have probably garnered a lot more support from the rest of us. None of us are pretending merc heals are in what you'd call a good spot. In fact the post you'd like us all to reference is pretty spot on. Too bad when it was originally posted you decided to open with "ok Merc DPS in general has been fixed".

 

Face it man, this whole thing is an argument of your own making. If you didn't want the discussion you shouldn't have brought it up.

Edited March 26, 2013 by ArchangelLBC

[idnewton]

Do not give. A single ****.

Face it man, this whole thing is an argument of your own making. If you didn't want the discussion you shouldn't have brought it up.

I could debate you on each and every one of your points and win, but you don't seem to be in the mood for logic and I'm tired of banging my head against a stuborn, ignorant wall. I have six 50s. Big deal. Doesn't really make a difference. The fact is that I ask a question and over two pages of explosions originate from a single sentence which isn't even my main point.

 

I do not care about merc dps. Period. End of story. Do not continue to stir up arguments.

Edited March 26, 2013 by idnewton

[cashogy_reborn]

Do not give. A single ****.

 

I could debate you on each and every one of your points and win, but you don't seem to be in the mood for logic and I'm tired of banging my head against a stuborn, ignorant wall. I have six 50s. Big deal. Doesn't really make a difference. The fact is that I ask a question and over two pages of explosions originate from a single sentence which isn't even my main point.

 

I do not care about merc dps. Period. End of story. Do not continue to stir up arguments.

 

you are very stand-offish for no reason at all. you have been since your first post in this thread, which is why people are now disputing your claims (most of which have been wrong).

 

yes, Merc heals needs some buffs. so does Merc DPS. do you see me posting all over the forums "SCREW MERC HEALS, BUFF MERC DPS!!11!!!!"? no, because that is massively counter-intuitive

 

also, having multiple 50s does not make you an expert in SWTOR. you didnt know how Hydraulic Overrides worked, cmon now

 

and your main point seems to be "buff heals, screw DPS". which is a completely non-constructive attitude. if youd like to make suggested buffs for Merc Heals, feel free to do so (you havent really given any yet, just a lot of posturing). unfortunately for you, some synergy between all 3 trees does exist. so nerfing a Merc DPS tree could have an indirect effect on Merc Heals, or vice versa.

[ArchangelLBC]

Do not give. A single ****.

 

I could debate you on each and every one of your points and win, but you don't seem to be in the mood for logic and I'm tired of banging my head against a stuborn, ignorant wall. I have six 50s. Big deal. Doesn't really make a difference. The fact is that I ask a question and over two pages of explosions originate from a single sentence which isn't even my main point.

 

I do not care about merc dps. Period. End of story. Do not continue to stir up arguments.

 

Bring it on. I have yet to see you use any actual logic so I'm not sure you know what that word means. No one cares how many 50s you have. I was just responding to your insinuation that my only toon was a commando.

 

The fact is, if you'd just said "well I don't really know, nor do I care about merc DPS, so if you say so fine" and backed off you wouldn't have had all of those two pages calling you out on your crap.

 

Do you know why I don't comment on commando heals? Because I don't heal on commando. I have no clue about, let alone experience with, playing commando heals at a high level of play. The consensus seems to be that they are way behind the other two healers and I'm willing to take that at face value. I don't talk about it because I can't add anything meaningful to the discussion. That's also why I don't talk about sage DPS or scoundrel DPS. Both of those subclasses are ones which have problems, but there's nothing I can add to those so I let the informed weigh in because adding my ignorance to the discussion won't help.

 

From our perspective though what if Austin had posted changes about Merc Healing instead, and the changes didn't really address problems with the spec (ammo problems from what I gather? functionality of SCC/SGC? I told you I don't know). You can fit your own change in here which would be nice but still wouldn't bring you up to the level of the other healers all by itself. And then one of us said "ok merc healing is fixed now, lets move on to merc DPS", even though the changes had NOT in fact fixed merc healing. Our question vis a vis merc DPS would be valid but we'd be spouting some pretty woeful ignorance about merc healing wouldn't we? You telling me you wouldn't be telling us how ignorant we are?

 

Be honest now.

[Leylea]

Thx for responce, i thought u forgot about the love u wanted to give us. But we finally got an answer what love means to u.

 

Ok, i was not expecting that much, since u already said that the love would only alleviate some of the PvP issues. Even if i would not claim being a pvp pro i think the changes are a litte buff to pvp arsenal mercs. It probably dont solves all the problems in PvP for arsenal mercs, but it could help.

 

But i am really wondering why the hell 2.0 is adressing exactly this issue that much? Pvp arsenal merc? really? All the changes, all that love for PVP ARSENAL MERC?

 

If u complain about getting interrupted in Pvp, then specc to Pyro. If u complain not beeing competive in pvp, then ask for buffs for Pyro. Make Pyro a really good pvp specc and let all the ones who wanna play arsenal in pvp (i play pvp in arsenal specc too) a bursting, but squishy and counterable player. What is wrong with it?

 

Ok, some smal changes for Arsenal not being a classcannon burster are ok, but PLZ dont make the mistake to design Arsenal for PVP and PVP purpose, it will never happen that u have a specc which is as good for pve as for pvp.

 

So plz, all u PvP mercs, specc to pyro and live with not having the same burst as with arsenal.

And plz, devs, AP, whoever, design Pyro for Pvp and Arsenal for Pve. Make pyro FINALLY competive (e.g. to PT pyro) and give him some love for pvp issues.

 

And after all that sleep a day, call ur whole class design team (the two or three u have), go to the meeting, clean all ur whiteboards, get some coffee and cake and make the Arsenal Merc a playable and enjoyable Pve specc again ... with some litte love u might still have left from ur whole pvp balancing torture.

 

THX

[PerinnAybara]

Holy crap a response. Nice, looks like a modified version of things that had been suggested. Hey Penny! looks like all that spamming of the tooltip for shatter shot may have actually done some good. Nice QoL improvement in PVE, and a slight boost in PVP for making boost less predictable and easier to set up, as well as spreading a decent armor debuff around.

 

Nothing directly to help with ammo management although my thinking is that without forcing our opening rotation to be 3 back to back casts of grav round just to get things perfectly setup as soon as possible (particularly the armor debuff, but also full setup for HiB and DR) is nice. Granted if you put in anything else there's still a delay on getting HiB out, but at least the rotation isn't as forcibly set in stone and it allows slightly more flexibility.

 

Betting is closed. I'll call these changes NOT even a backhanded negative, though I can't say they'll make us ranked viable.

 

Still I call it a win anytime we manage to avoid getting nerfed >.>

 

Hey Austin, no hard feelings or anything, but why do I feel that we can only manage to pry responses out of the combat team when we resort to lots and lots of personal insults? Was there really an issue with putting in these changes over a week ago and letting us actually try them out?

 

My name isn't Penny! Sheesh.

[idnewton]

yes, Merc heals needs some buffs. so does Merc DPS. do you see me posting all over the forums "SCREW MERC HEALS, BUFF MERC DPS!!11!!!!"? no, because that is massively counter-intuitive

The reason I say it is because people assume I care about merc DPS. My original post stated that they got a buff, so now merc heals need one. Whether or not you believe merc DPS to be fully fixed is not my problem. Do not make it my problem, or I will become your problem.

 

you are very stand-offish for no reason at all. you have been since your first post in this thread, which is why people are now disputing your claims (most of which have been wrong).

My first post was an honest question to Eric Musco. Your misinterpretations are not my problem, especially when it does't even concern any of you. I have every right to be 'stand-offish' in the rest of my posts when the merc dps fanboys write three pages of explosions based on a single insignificant, dismissive, non-thesis sentence.

 

also, having multiple 50s does not make you an expert in SWTOR. you didnt know how Hydraulic Overrides worked, cmon now

I only mentioned having level 50s because someone else thought that having three made them a know-it-all. My 50s are a Marauder, Sniper, Assassin, Mercenary, Guardian, and Juggernaut. My highest Powertech? 17. Haven't played him in months. There is no reason I should have known the exact characteristics of Hydrolic Overrides.

 

and your main point seems to be "buff heals, screw DPS". which is a completely non-constructive attitude. if youd like to make suggested buffs for Merc Heals, feel free to do so (you havent really given any yet, just a lot of posturing). unfortunately for you, some synergy between all 3 trees does exist. so nerfing a Merc DPS tree could have an indirect effect on Merc Heals, or vice versa.

I wouldn't have had to mention my lack of feelings regarding merc DPS if the fanboys hadn't exploded over it. I'm no asking them to nerf merc DPS, I'm asking them to give merc heals some love now. The reason I state that I do not care about merc dps is because the thesis of my original post was completely independant of merc dps. Don't get caught up on a single sentence. This thread asks for merc/mando changes. By your logic, that means that the OP is implying 'screw sorcerers' or 'screw operatives' because they didn't mention it. That isn't the case. I'm not saying merc dps doesn't need a buff, I'm saying merc heals do need a buff. This is about merc/mando changes in general, not specifically merc/mando dps. My question is relevant and on-topic. Respect the fact that I have different interests than you do.

 

 

This argument has no reason to continue, nor did it have a reason to originate. I highly recommend you let it go.

[PerinnAybara]

I've started many threads about mercs.

 

Did you know I'm mainly a healer?

 

Not that I haven't logged many many hours as the dps.

 

I had a nice thread called Constructive Feedback about the Healing Classes from a Mercenaries' Perspective.

 

By the end of bumping it with actual substance for months, well it felt like months, I broke.

 

Then people got to see my poetry and call me Penny.

[ArchangelLBC]

Thx for responce, i thought u forgot about the love u wanted to give us. But we finally got an answer what love means to u.

 

Ok, i was not expecting that much, since u already said that the love would only alleviate some of the PvP issues. Even if i would not claim being a pvp pro i think the changes are a litte buff to pvp arsenal mercs. It probably dont solves all the problems in PvP for arsenal mercs, but it could help.

 

But i am really wondering why the hell 2.0 is adressing exactly this issue that much? Pvp arsenal merc? really? All the changes, all that love for PVP ARSENAL MERC?

 

If u complain about getting interrupted in Pvp, then specc to Pyro. If u complain not beeing competive in pvp, then ask for buffs for Pyro. Make Pyro a really good pvp specc and let all the ones who wanna play arsenal in pvp (i play pvp in arsenal specc too) a bursting, but squishy and counterable player. What is wrong with it?

 

Ok, some smal changes for Arsenal not being a classcannon burster are ok, but PLZ dont make the mistake to design Arsenal for PVP and PVP purpose, it will never happen that u have a specc which is as good for pve as for pvp.

 

So plz, all u PvP mercs, specc to pyro and live with not having the same burst as with arsenal.

And plz, devs, AP, whoever, design Pyro for Pvp and Arsenal for Pve. Make pyro FINALLY competive (e.g. to PT pyro) and give him some love for pvp issues.

 

And after all that sleep a day, call ur whole class design team (the two or three u have), go to the meeting, clean all ur whiteboards, get some coffee and cake and make the Arsenal Merc a playable and enjoyable Pve specc again ... with some litte love u might still have left from ur whole pvp balancing torture.

 

THX

 

Sadly I think Pyro is dead, or at the very least on some very expensive life support. Latest changes just crippled it for no reason that I can see, unless they wanted to make the new missile salvo talent worthless.

 

The reason I say it is because people assume I care about merc DPS. My original post stated that they got a buff, so now merc heals need one.

 

Your original post said they were fixed. I haven't heard you yet concede you were wrong on that point.

 

Whether or not you believe merc DPS to be fully fixed is not my problem. Do not make it my problem, or I will become your problem.

 

Ooooh internet tough guy! I so scurred! Watch out everyone!

 

My first post was an honest question to Eric Musco. Your misinterpretations are not my problem, especially when it does't even concern any of you. I have every right to be 'stand-offish' in the rest of my posts when the merc dps fanboys write three pages of explosions based on a single insignificant, dismissive, non-thesis sentence.

 

Again, you're welcome to concede that you were in error and move on. You were the one who continued the discussion about merc DPS, and then when you couldn't justify your ignorance any further you claimed you could debate our points and win but didn't care about merc DPS. It's ok dude. Just say you were wrong.

 

I only mentioned having level 50s because someone else thought that having three made them a know-it-all. My 50s are a Marauder, Sniper, Assassin, Mercenary, Guardian, and Juggernaut. My highest Powertech? 17. Haven't played him in months. There is no reason I should have known the exact characteristics of Hydrolic Overrides.

 

So your highest level powertech is as high as my highest level powertech and higher than my vanguard? Got it. Btw ALL troopers and bounty hunters got Hold the Line/Hydraulic Overrides on the PTS. Are you saying you never tested it out? Man up to your own ignorance. I never said having three made me a know-it-all. I said having three meant I had more than one. You were the one to open up that can of worms too. Maybe you should stop bringing up points that aren't what you care about if you don't then want an argument about them.

 

I wouldn't have had to mention my lack of feelings regarding merc DPS if the fanboys hadn't exploded over it. I'm no asking them to nerf merc DPS, I'm asking them to give merc heals some love now. The reason I state that I do not care about merc dps is because the thesis of my original post was completely independant of merc dps. Don't get caught up on a single sentence. This thread asks for merc/mando changes. By your logic, that means that the OP is implying 'screw sorcerers' or 'screw operatives' because they didn't mention it. That isn't the case. I'm not saying merc dps doesn't need a buff, I'm saying merc heals do need a buff. This is about merc/mando changes in general, not specifically merc/mando dps. My question is relevant and on-topic. Respect the fact that I have different interests than you do.

 

Still your statement. Maybe you should retract it. You DID say we were fixed which implies that we don't in fact need a buff. And yes that was a single sentence but it was your FIRST sentence, and it was completely irrelevant to the rest of your post by your own admission so why even bother saying it at all.? You're allowed to have different interests than us, but again it was YOU who kept debating on the Merc DPS point, and class balance, instead of just saying "oh my bad" and pivoting back to your original point, which in fact we'd have let you do. Now you're still debating how much you care or don't care about merc DPS. Face it dude, you derailed yourself. Own up to it and move on. Or drag this out! Like I said, I have nothing meaningful to add about merc heals so I'd probably leave the thread alone if you managed to actually pivot back to that instead of trying to defend the fact that you derailed yourself.

 

This argument has no reason to continue, nor did it have a reason to originate. I highly recommend you let it go.

 

Right back at ya friend. You originated it. You kept it going. I'll let go when you do =)

[ArchangelLBC]

I've started many threads about mercs.

 

Did you know I'm mainly a healer?

 

Not that I haven't logged many many hours as the dps.

 

I had a nice thread called Constructive Feedback about the Healing Classes from a Mercenaries' Perspective.

 

By the end of bumping it with actual substance for months, well it felt like months, I broke.

 

Then people got to see my poetry and call me Penny.

 

 

Awww Penny <3

[Shadix]

doing well in regs =/= doing well in RWZ. which is what the issue is. most of us here in this thread are good enough to go on RWZ for starters. the point is that we easily match and surpass what we could do on Merc/Mando vs any other DPS class really.

 

this is not a huge buff. its a side-grade basically. it will make the TM->HSM combo much easier to perform, but we still have to spam TM to get stacks of Tracer Lock and proc Barrage. so to maximize our DPS in that spec, we *still* have to spam TM. a chunk of our damage has just been moved from the back of the rotation to the front.

 

is it a step in the right direction? absolutely. is there more that needs to be done? definitely. for starters, lowering the cooldown of Tech Override and Reserve Powercell.

 

if this is the only change that gets added to 2.0 for Mercs, nothing will really change. i hate to sound like a downer when we have finally gotten the devs to post in one of our threads, but the point of feedback and discussions is to affect changes to improve the class to a competitive level.

 

Bolded the relevant.

 

This is exactly right. Anyone who actively plays a merc/mando can see the futility in the change here. The only thing changing is the rotation, slightly. We are still heavily turret based with no means of mobility.

[acerx]

I'm not seeing that. I am on PTS right now. Armor pen is still 35%. Terminal Velocity still vents heat if you put skill points into it. Which you should. You still get the 3% heat dissipation bonus from alacrity on the high velocity gas cylinder.

 

The Merc skill which still doesn't work? Combustible Gas Cylinder. It still doesn't refresh properly with any skill other than Superheated Rail or Missile Salvo. A clear nerf vs. 1.7.

 

BS. 1: The pts went down while i was posting that , and is still currently offline.

2: You do not get 3% heat diss from 3% alacrity. Do your math again. 10% alacrity gets ya almost up to 8 heat per sec. Almost

3: If you read the tooltip for the talent points, there IS NO HEAT DISS TO IT!! I spent almost 6 hours trying to find a rotation / prio system that would fit with new heat management, my spec was still the same as it has always been on pts 2.0, and the only solution I've found is to weave a rapid shots between every third gcd.

 

My gear changed not, and my spec changed not. I think your either fibbin, or just have no clue what your talking about.

[idnewton]

Right back at ya friend. You originated it. You kept it going. I'll let go when you do =)

In my original post, I stated a one-sentence opinion regarding Merc DPS:

OK, Merc DPS in general has been fixed.

Which was combatted by the following post, and from there it exploded:

fixed? whoa now partner, lets not get ahead of ourselves. there is still not even a semblance of interrupt resistance available to Merc DPS. we are still bound to casting endless amounts of tracers. the only thing that changed was the TM -> HSM burst combo now only takes 2 GCDs, rather than 4.

 

the whole class still needs help. one change did not suddenly fix everything wrong with Arsenal Merc. hopefully this is the first step to making Merc more viable. if its all we're getting, the class is still gonna lag behind.

Quoted from dictionary.com, Argument: "a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point"

 

I made a point. It was argued by another. Thus, the argument was not started by me.

 

 

I gave you three chances to drop this:

Have I not made myself entirely clear how little of a **** I give about merc DPS?! I do not play it, nor do I ever plan to. It's a heck of a whole lot more fixed than merc heals. Unless merc heals has gotten a buff since the PTS closed and you didn't mention it here, refer to this post:

Do not give. A single ****.

 

 

End of story. Do not continue to stir up arguments.

This argument has no reason to continue, nor did it have a reason to originate. I highly recommend you let it go.

Your persistence in this argument and your unwillingness to drop it brings to light your true, argumentative intentions which constitute as 'Trolling' by the terms of service. You have been reported for trolling and ignored. It's clear to me that no one in this thread can accept the fact that I have a question to ask Eric Musco. It appears I will have to make my own thread for it. Continue this argument there, and you will be reported for thread hijacking.

 

Have a nice day.

Edited March 26, 2013 by idnewton

[acerx]

Thx for responce, i thought u forgot about the love u wanted to give us. But we finally got an answer what love means to u.

 

Ok, i was not expecting that much, since u already said that the love would only alleviate some of the PvP issues. Even if i would not claim being a pvp pro i think the changes are a litte buff to pvp arsenal mercs. It probably dont solves all the problems in PvP for arsenal mercs, but it could help.

 

But i am really wondering why the hell 2.0 is adressing exactly this issue that much? Pvp arsenal merc? really? All the changes, all that love for PVP ARSENAL MERC?

 

If u complain about getting interrupted in Pvp, then specc to Pyro. If u complain not beeing competive in pvp, then ask for buffs for Pyro. Make Pyro a really good pvp specc and let all the ones who wanna play arsenal in pvp (i play pvp in arsenal specc too) a bursting, but squishy and counterable player. What is wrong with it?

 

Ok, some smal changes for Arsenal not being a classcannon burster are ok, but PLZ dont make the mistake to design Arsenal for PVP and PVP purpose, it will never happen that u have a specc which is as good for pve as for pvp.

 

So plz, all u PvP mercs, specc to pyro and live with not having the same burst as with arsenal.

And plz, devs, AP, whoever, design Pyro for Pvp and Arsenal for Pve. Make pyro FINALLY competive (e.g. to PT pyro) and give him some love for pvp issues.

 

And after all that sleep a day, call ur whole class design team (the two or three u have), go to the meeting, clean all ur whiteboards, get some coffee and cake and make the Arsenal Merc a playable and enjoyable Pve specc again ... with some litte love u might still have left from ur whole pvp balancing torture.

 

THX

 

So what you are saying is, " If you want to fix merc pvp, just buff pyro and make every single person that leveled a ranged bounty hunter spec melee"??? Yeah, that's a "fix".

[acerx]

The reason I say it is because people assume I care about merc DPS. My original post stated that they got a buff, so now merc heals need one. Whether or not you believe merc DPS to be fully fixed is not my problem. Do not make it my problem, or I will become your problem.

 

 

My first post was an honest question to Eric Musco. Your misinterpretations are not my problem, especially when it does't even concern any of you. I have every right to be 'stand-offish' in the rest of my posts when the merc dps fanboys write three pages of explosions based on a single insignificant, dismissive, non-thesis sentence.

 

 

I only mentioned having level 50s because someone else thought that having three made them a know-it-all. My 50s are a Marauder, Sniper, Assassin, Mercenary, Guardian, and Juggernaut. My highest Powertech? 17. Haven't played him in months. There is no reason I should have known the exact characteristics of Hydrolic Overrides.

 

I wouldn't have had to mention my lack of feelings regarding merc DPS if the fanboys hadn't exploded over it. I'm no asking them to nerf merc DPS, I'm asking them to give merc heals some love now. The reason I state that I do not care about merc dps is because the thesis of my original post was completely independant of merc dps. Don't get caught up on a single sentence. This thread asks for merc/mando changes. By your logic, that means that the OP is implying 'screw sorcerers' or 'screw operatives' because they didn't mention it. That isn't the case. I'm not saying merc dps doesn't need a buff, I'm saying merc heals do need a buff. This is about merc/mando changes in general, not specifically merc/mando dps. My question is relevant and on-topic. Respect the fact that I have different interests than you do.

 

 

This argument has no reason to continue, nor did it have a reason to originate. I highly recommend you let it go.

 

Actually dude, merc gets hydraulic override no matter what spec they are. You have it on your healing merc. So yes, you totally should know exactly how it works. And starting your post with "merc dps got a buff", THATs what people are so upset about. It is not a buff in any way shape or form. If you had actually played the class on pts and payed attention, you would have noticed you have HO on your healer, and if you would have specc'd to arsenal and at least tried out a couple of rounds you would then have something to base that opinion off off. If you are going to start comments with " such and such A class got buffed" you really should have at least PLAYED that A class and spec on pts before deciding whether or not it actually is a buff. I mean, cmon man, you actually just stated you dont have HO, and in fact YOU DO!!!

 

I'm not hating on you, I would just love to see just ONE of you nay sayers actually test something yourself for a change, and give back some actually usefull insights. By not caring/playing the spec, you have left a vacuum of knowledge about that spec. To post opinions based upon that is foolish and insulting.