More Trooper Nerfing

[tatjedi]

Ok so have you lost your minds at BIoware now?

 

After nerfing the troopers pvp ability and ruining the shield spec & stockstrike you now want to make it even less use in 2.0? Reduced Internal damage from 8% to 5% on High Energy, No increase to ranged crit chance from Charged Loaders, Blaster Augs down to 1% from 3%?!! No Ion Pulse Crit increase off Gut? Assault Plastique now a DOT? Rain of fire no longer causes full auto to increase dmg?

 

You have gone bonkers crazy. How can you even think this is reasonable when your quite happy with Sents, Mars, Guardians & juggs running around doing 7k group crits with smash & sweep on an unlimited number of targets in range? I know this is PTS at moment but if your seriously thinking of pushing this through 2.0 main update then I think there will be a lot of unhappy troopers out there, particularly in pvp.

 

In a world of madness only cookies have the answer

Edited March 22, 2013 by tatjedi

[Swissbob]

I have 3 Troopers and 2 Bounty Hunters and I'm completely fine with the changes.

[tatjedi]

Good for you. Hope you thoroughly enjoy the reduction in damage.

[Swissbob]

I probably won't "enjoy" them.... but a few hits to my DPS is not going to make me run to the forums and then kiss the entire game goodbye.

 

It's just going to add a little bit extra challenge to the game.

 

Call me crazy, but I sometimes like challenge.

[wishihadaname]

As a commando, find it cute that you're crying. Did you big bad 3 button rotation just bite the dust? not really. It will just take 6 moves instead of 5 to drop me, and i'll maybe get 2 casts off in that time instead of 1. Whoopty do. Pyro's had the neft coming for a long time, don't even get me started on how painful it is to play an operative with just one competent pyro around. Now all we need is for smashers to take the nerf bat where the sun don't shine and i'll be happy with pvp balance overall.

[MGNMTTRN]

I don't know why you people are attacking the OP. Sentinels/marauders have been overpowered since launch and have always needed significant nerfs. They didn't receive the nerfs they needed, while Bioware managed to nerf classes like Shadow DPS and Commando DPS. The OP is totally correct; there was a huge systematic bias toward Sentinels in this game. They had the best raidwide cooldowns, the best offense, the best defensive cooldowns, raidwide healing, and a gap closer. Compare this to Vanguards: 0 utility apart from a pull that'll get you threat on mobs in PvE, second-best offense, worst defensive cooldowns in the game, and no gap closer.

 

I am excited that Sentinels aren't getting as much value out of alacrity as other classes, and am excited that Vanguards are getting a buff to survivability in 2.0. I will wait and see where Vanguard DPS stands after 2.0.

 

But the OP's point was incontrovertible: Bioware completely failed to attend to the problems that this game's balance had. Now they are continuing to show their ineptitude; nerfing Tactics was not the solution to the hybrid problem. And more generally, nerfing Vanguards when Sentinels outshone them so much was just ridiculous.

Edited March 22, 2013 by MGNMTTRN

[Swissbob]

I don't know why you people are attacking the OP. Sentinels/marauders have been overpowered since launch and have always needed significant nerfs. They didn't receive the nerfs they needed, while Bioware managed to nerf classes like Shadow DPS and Commando DPS. The OP is totally correct; there was a huge systematic bias toward Sentinels in this game. They had the best raidwide cooldowns, the best offense, the best defensive cooldowns, raidwide healing, and a gap closer. Compare this to Vanguards: 0 utility apart from a pull that'll get you threat on mobs in PvE, second-best offense, worst defensive cooldowns in the game, and no gap closer.

 

I am excited that Sentinels aren't getting as much value out of alacrity as other classes, and am excited that Vanguards are getting a buff to survivability in 2.0. I will wait and see where Vanguard DPS stands after 2.0.

 

But the OP's point was incontrovertible: Bioware completely failed to attend to the problems that this game's balance had. Now they are continuing to show their ineptitude; nerfing Tactics was not the solution to the hybrid problem. And more generally, nerfing Vanguards when Sentinels outshone them so much was just ridiculous.

 

I'm not attacking him. I'm just stating that I have an opinion that isn't congruent to his. (Or yours, for that matter.)

 

While, yes I would definitely agree that Sentinels/ Marauders are a very strong class, perhaps one of the easiest to learn and play effectively, I don't think that it is necessary to cry out for nerfs for them and buffs for me and ask Bioware if they have gone crazy.

 

The actual situation is absolutely no where near that drastic.

 

I can still play my Vanguard, Commandos, Powertech and Mercenary absolutely fine. In fact, I enjoy them more then my 1 marauder (don't have a sentinel) because there is a little more challenge.

 

Just because Sentinels seem to be strong and my particular class doesn't seem to be the strongest, I'm not going to march straight to the forums and claim Bioware has lost their heads, and demand that Bioware buff your class and nerf others.

 

Edited March 23, 2013 by Swissbob

[SWEtree]

If you want a challenge then run WZs nude. Problem solved.

 

(50% joke)

Edited March 23, 2013 by SWEtree

[Zoom_VI]

Dps wasn't the only nerd to troopers, Van tanks now have the lowest TTK of the three classes, and are completely broken in 2.0 PvP where they amount to underpowered dps with a smoke grenade.

[tatjedi]

As a commando, find it cute that you're crying. Did you big bad 3 button rotation just bite the dust? not really. It will just take 6 moves instead of 5 to drop me, and i'll maybe get 2 casts off in that time instead of 1. Whoopty do. Pyro's had the neft coming for a long time, don't even get me started on how painful it is to play an operative with just one competent pyro around. Now all we need is for smashers to take the nerf bat where the sun don't shine and i'll be happy with pvp balance overall.

 

I find it cute that you assume i play Commondo. My trooper is a Vanguard. It would seem that your the one 'crying' about 3 button rotations and those naughty old smashers.

 

I couldnt care less about so called OP classes. Up the power of other classes rather than nerf a class. Troopers & BH's are now underpowered accross the board. The only compensation in is in PVE where a Com or Merc can just be a gun turret with little interuption. In pvp they are doomed unless supported by a good team (healer & tank).

 

Maybe the biggest problem for you is that you need to actually learn to play pvp, then those nasty smashers and commandos wont own you so badly.I have a 50 operative and have never been beaten 1 on 1 by a commando. Any halfway competent pvp player would never have trouble with one unless they play one themselves. Feel free to 'cry' some more though.

 

Come to the Darkside, we have cookies

[tatjedi]

Dps wasn't the only nerd to troopers, Van tanks now have the lowest TTK of the three classes, and are completely broken in 2.0 PvP where they amount to underpowered dps with a smoke grenade.

 

I agree completely. It just feels like the devs have it in for troopers somewhat. I have a 50 shadow tank and its crazy how much easier i can solo 4 man heroics on BH and Ilum etc. On my shadow i have an 8 sec cc, 1 min cc, 4 sec stun, stealth, combat escape, and can self heal every 3 rotations. On my Vanguard I have a 4 sec stun and 2 sec aoe stun. I mean come on. If its designed as pure meat shield thats fine but give it the durability to make up for the total lack of utility.

 

Only Cookies have the answer

[tatjedi]

I probably won't "enjoy" them.... but a few hits to my DPS is not going to make me run to the forums and then kiss the entire game goodbye.

 

It's just going to add a little bit extra challenge to the game.

 

Call me crazy, but I sometimes like challenge.

 

Who said anything about 'kissing the game goodbye?'. Also, unless i am mistaken, forums are there for people to express how they feel about the game. If you actually do the math i think you might find it works out to be a few more 'hits' to you dps than you seem to think. Run the numbers and you will see how over four minutes of sustained dps you will lose a significant amount of damage. If you are truly happy with that then maybe try pounding in nails with a foam hammer or fending off the undead with a Nerf gun. Should be quite challenging and right up your street.

 

A fool can waste more cookies than a wise man can eat

[Missandei]

Cmon. Vanguard is SO EASY a class that it makes me feel dumb when i play it.

You do nothing just running around and clicking 2-3 buttons (Stockstrike, Ion Pulse, HiB... if you are too far away - HammerShot..) and you are do top damage!

That so ridiculous that it even not funny.

 

I assume that BioWare made that intentionally that even a mentally weak person can be on par with anyone else in PvP... But what made lowIQpeople to be equal is making the skilled beople just invincible and way overpowered...

Edited March 26, 2013 by Missandei

[tatjedi]

I don't know why you people are attacking the OP. Sentinels/marauders have been overpowered since launch and have always needed significant nerfs. They didn't receive the nerfs they needed, while Bioware managed to nerf classes like Shadow DPS and Commando DPS. The OP is totally correct; there was a huge systematic bias toward Sentinels in this game. They had the best raidwide cooldowns, the best offense, the best defensive cooldowns, raidwide healing, and a gap closer. Compare this to Vanguards: 0 utility apart from a pull that'll get you threat on mobs in PvE, second-best offense, worst defensive cooldowns in the game, and no gap closer.

 

I am excited that Sentinels aren't getting as much value out of alacrity as other classes, and am excited that Vanguards are getting a buff to survivability in 2.0. I will wait and see where Vanguard DPS stands after 2.0.

 

But the OP's point was incontrovertible: Bioware completely failed to attend to the problems that this game's balance had. Now they are continuing to show their ineptitude; nerfing Tactics was not the solution to the hybrid problem. And more generally, nerfing Vanguards when Sentinels outshone them so much was just ridiculous.

 

Ageed. Ham handed nerfing of classes without any consideration of overall play balance. If your PVE and PVP game overlap directly in terms of skill trees and trained abilites then you can't go messing with stuff based on one sided opinions. If they keep this up there will be some crazy imbalances between the effectiveness of a class in PVE/PVP

 

A cookie in the hand is worth two in the Jar .

[Missandei]

I agree completely. It just feels like the devs have it in for troopers somewhat. I have a 50 shadow tank and its crazy how much easier i can solo 4 man heroics on BH and Ilum etc. On my shadow i have an 8 sec cc, 1 min cc, 4 sec stun, stealth, combat escape, and can self heal every 3 rotations. On my Vanguard I have a 4 sec stun and 2 sec aoe stun. I mean come on. If its designed as pure meat shield thats fine but give it the durability to make up for the total lack of utility.

 

Only Cookies have the answer

 

You dont have a selfheal on Vanguard? Funny...

[tatjedi]

Cmon. Vanguard is SO EASY a class that it makes me feel dumb when i play it.

You do nothing just running around and clicking 2-3 buttons (Stockstrike, Ion Pulse, HiB... if you are too far away - HammerShot..) and you are do top damage!

That so ridiculous that it even not funny.

 

I assume that BioWare made that intentionally that even a mentally weak person can be on par with anyone else in PvP... But what made lowIQpeople to be equal is making the skilled beople just invincible and way overpowered...

 

That is pretty funny. While i agree that the rotation is easy (lets face it most are) it is sure as hell not as simplistic as a smasher or Merc/Comm spamming. Any Melee based dps class is tougher to play well in pvp than a ranged. Also and very radical i know, is the concept that overall dps in pvp is really not the point. Any fool can get high dps if they just run around spamming damage like a child swatting bees with a stick. If you dont believe me try either a sage/sorc or operative/scoundrel and just run about tabbing & spamming your dots.

 

While you may get the highest dps on the table your actual effectiveness as a player is terrible. For a dps class to shine in pvp it needs (in the hands of a competent player) to be able to deliver fast, effective dps; with sustained pressure. it also needs utility. Smashers are so popular because 3 of them together can burst down a group of people in seconds.

 

Winning is what counts in pvp and often the winning teams have awful dps simply because they focused on objectives. My point with the nerf to the BH/Trooper is that actual combat effectiveness overall is significantly reduced.

 

There is no cookie

Edited March 26, 2013 by tatjedi

[tatjedi]

You dont have a selfheal on Vanguard? Funny...

 

LOL. Yes genius, it does. A tiny little one on long cooldown. Run four min sustained battle and compare the shadow/assassin self healing against Vanguard/PT. That little bit is about as much use as a snooze button on a smoke alarm for anything more than a straight boss fight. In PVP or when trying to solo a large mob in a heroic it achieves nothing other than slightly prolonging the inevitable. On the Shadow/ Assassin i can self heal every 3-4 rotations and can heal more from overcharged saber. There is no comparison. But feel free to nit pick without any usefull contribution anytime.

 

Cookies are friends not food

Edited March 26, 2013 by tatjedi

[tatjedi]

I'm not attacking him. I'm just stating that I have an opinion that isn't congruent to his. (Or yours, for that matter.)

 

While, yes I would definitely agree that Sentinels/ Marauders are a very strong class, perhaps one of the easiest to learn and play effectively, I don't think that it is necessary to cry out for nerfs for them and buffs for me and ask Bioware if they have gone crazy.

 

The actual situation is absolutely no where near that drastic.

 

I can still play my Vanguard, Commandos, Powertech and Mercenary absolutely fine. In fact, I enjoy them more then my 1 marauder (don't have a sentinel) because there is a little more challenge.

 

Just because Sentinels seem to be strong and my particular class doesn't seem to be the strongest, I'm not going to march straight to the forums and claim Bioware has lost their heads, and demand that Bioware buff your class and nerf others.

 

 

Well considering the changes have not as yet come in that is no great suprise. Also i am not suggesting buffs to my class and nerfs to others. I would like them to stop nerfing as knee jerk reactions, build on more depth, buff so called weaker classes and stop fiddling about without thinking things through. I could not give a damn about highest dps scores in pvp etc, my only concern is overall effectiveness to win matches. As i said, run the numbers, educate yourself and maybe think about what they are doing compared to other classes.

 

First rule of cookie club? There is no cookie club.

[MandFlurry]

this is definitely different than what Troopers said 2 weeks ago. saying that the Trooper (Commando/Vanguard) was finally getting some love that I think we are fine the way are now, which to me am content with my 31 or 32 Commando i'm trying to get to 50 before 2.0.

 

If we are balanced with every1 else that's fine. But I don't like what's being said now. If there is being Nerfs being done with Commando or Vanguard, then I hope you guys are telling the Deva on the Test Server Forums that we just need to be balanced, not OP'd but on the same level to all other classes in the game because I love Commando right now, and hopefully do a Vanguard that I was grinding as well.

 

If any1 wants an Overpowered Class, then go Sorc, as that Class is way OP'd. But what we really need is a faster Cooldown that Darksiders use can stack on us, and we have literally no defense when i'm Pvp'ing I get 3 or 4 ppl stacking their Darkside powers rendering me useless or am killed by every1 attacking me because My Commando doesn't have a faster cooldown against darkside attacks while my Sage can do it with No Problem for them, but my Commando can't fend off stacking powerful Darkside skills against me. I have like no defense whatsoever.

[MandFlurry]

Well considering the changes have not as yet come in that is no great suprise. Also i am not suggesting buffs to my class and nerfs to others. I would like them to stop nerfing as knee jerk reactions, build on more depth, buff so called weaker classes and stop fiddling about without thinking things through. I could not give a damn about highest dps scores in pvp etc, my only concern is overall effectiveness to win matches. As i said, run the numbers, educate yourself and maybe think about what they are doing compared to other classes.

 

First rule of cookie club? There is no cookie club.

 

I agree, we don't need to be OP'd, but just as balanced as other classes I say imo.

[JimmyTheCannon]

this is definitely different than what Troopers said 2 weeks ago. saying that the Trooper (Commando/Vanguard) was finally getting some love that I think we are fine the way are now, which to me am content with my 31 or 32 Commando i'm trying to get to 50 before 2.0.

 

If we are balanced with every1 else that's fine. But I don't like what's being said now. If there is being Nerfs being done with Commando or Vanguard, then I hope you guys are telling the Deva on the Test Server Forums that we just need to be balanced, not OP'd but on the same level to all other classes in the game because I love Commando right now, and hopefully do a Vanguard that I was grinding as well.

 

If any1 wants an Overpowered Class, then go Sorc, as that Class is way OP'd. But what we really need is a faster Cooldown that Darksiders use can stack on us, and we have literally no defense when i'm Pvp'ing I get 3 or 4 ppl stacking their Darkside powers rendering me useless or am killed by every1 attacking me because My Commando doesn't have a faster cooldown against darkside attacks while my Sage can do it with No Problem for them, but my Commando can't fend off stacking powerful Darkside skills against me. I have like no defense whatsoever.

 

Sorcs... are not overpowered.

 

Any time you get 3 or 4 people on you, it doesn't matter what class you are, you're going to die. You'll *maybe* survive if you're a healer, you're guarded, and the tank AOE taunts, but otherwise you're dead.

 

Sorcs can cleanse force power dots, yes. However, they can't remove tech dots, which your Commando can. All those burns from Pyros and poisons/bleeds from other classes? You can remove them while they'll tear through a Sorc.

 

That much is balanced.

 

That said, I agree the recent changes are puzzling and have made us overall weaker.

[MandFlurry]

I've played both and Pvp's against 1v1 Sorcs or even 3 ppl can't down a Sorc like Sentinels and their counterparts on the Empire side are OP'd to. Try Pvp'ing against these guys and ur down in like a second, because we don't have a lower cooldown on takeing off movement and beingForce choked by 4 of some of these guys make them Waaaaaay to Op'd, yet we don't have a good cooldown on "Tenacity" to be able to counter them being OP'd, We need a Lot Better "Tenacity ability" just to balance things.

 

I've played over and over with/against Sorcs and played them. They are Op'd. Of course in WZs that my Commando has played in it seems the Devs like Jedi and Sith to have, being more powerful than classes with Guns, with an exception to Pistoleers.

 

Usually it takes a few ppl to take me down, but a Sorc alone can do it with Force Lightning says a lot. My Trooper is alvl 34 right now. So if some1 can Educate me in telling me that by my mid 30s or lower 40s that I can take a good Sorc player in WZs, then by all means Educate me and prove I can take a good Sorc, Just the Lightning alone cane kill good players to without using other skills it seems

Edited March 28, 2013 by MandFlurry
not makeing sense

[RaptureRocker]

I find it cute that you assume i play Commondo. My trooper is a Vanguard. It would seem that your the one 'crying' about 3 button rotations and those naughty old smashers.

 

I couldnt care less about so called OP classes. Up the power of other classes rather than nerf a class. Troopers & BH's are now underpowered accross the board. The only compensation in is in PVE where a Com or Merc can just be a gun turret with little interuption. In pvp they are doomed unless supported by a good team (healer & tank).

 

Maybe the biggest problem for you is that you need to actually learn to play pvp, then those nasty smashers and commandos wont own you so badly.I have a 50 operative and have never been beaten 1 on 1 by a commando. Any halfway competent pvp player would never have trouble with one unless they play one themselves. Feel free to 'cry' some more though.

 

Come to the Darkside, we have cookies

 

I'm sorry but... Had to butt in. you read his post completely wrong. HE plays a commando.

[Zunayson]

Ok so have you lost your minds at BIoware now?

 

After nerfing the troopers pvp ability and ruining the shield spec & stockstrike you now want to make it even less use in 2.0? Reduced Internal damage from 8% to 5% on High Energy, No increase to ranged crit chance from Charged Loaders, Blaster Augs down to 1% from 3%?!! No Ion Pulse Crit increase off Gut? Assault Plastique now a DOT? Rain of fire no longer causes full auto to increase dmg?

 

You have gone bonkers crazy. How can you even think this is reasonable when your quite happy with Sents, Mars, Guardians & juggs running around doing 7k group crits with smash & sweep on an unlimited number of targets in range? I know this is PTS at moment but if your seriously thinking of pushing this through 2.0 main update then I think there will be a lot of unhappy troopers out there, particularly in pvp.

 

In a world of madness only cookies have the answer

 

The 8% to 5% is a terrible thing, as is the 3% to 1%. The biggest nerf is the 30% surge nerf on Ion Pulse. The Blaster Augs only affects RANGED attacks, and the only ranged attack you use is HiB, which is autocrit anyways. The gut changes make gut seem like they want it for direct dps, but the slow, the laughable 3% damage increase and the HiB crit made it seem like they wanted it to be a utility. The faster ticks on it means more Combat Tactics procs, though instead of having a 25% every second, we now have 100% every 9 seconds, which doesnt really matter...

 

They made gut decent, so now I think that if they just revert the internal damage then mostly itll be good.

 

Believe it or not, with the maxed out % bonuses, tactics ion pulse still hits harder than assault specialist (Which is expected), though not by much. I guess they just didn't want Assault specialist to have a terrible ion pulse, since I agree it is an extremely weak skill.

[FodderofCannon]

I've played both and Pvp's against 1v1 Sorcs or even 3 ppl can't down a Sorc like Sentinels and their counterparts on the Empire side are OP'd to. Try Pvp'ing against these guys and ur down in like a second, because we don't have a lower cooldown on takeing off movement and beingForce choked by 4 of some of these guys make them Waaaaaay to Op'd, yet we don't have a good cooldown on "Tenacity" to be able to counter them being OP'd, We need a Lot Better "Tenacity ability" just to balance things.

 

I've played over and over with/against Sorcs and played them. They are Op'd. Of course in WZs that my Commando has played in it seems the Devs like Jedi and Sith to have, being more powerful than classes with Guns, with an exception to Pistoleers.

 

Usually it takes a few ppl to take me down, but a Sorc alone can do it with Force Lightning says a lot. My Trooper is alvl 34 right now. So if some1 can Educate me in telling me that by my mid 30s or lower 40s that I can take a good Sorc player in WZs, then by all means Educate me and prove I can take a good Sorc, Just the Lightning alone cane kill good players to without using other skills it seems

 

/facepalm

 

Comments on class balance before you are 50 is not really a good idea. It's not the same game pre-50. Dps Sorcs are easy cannon fodder for any Vanguard/PT of even moderate skill level. If you are having trouble with them you need to go play one and figure out their weaknesses, because they are squishy as hell.

 

Pre-50 they do get more abilities early on, but that will all change by 50.It is highly likely that they are being guarded or you are being taunted by others. Sorc healers can be a pain to kill, but it's only a matter of time.