Please consider getting rid of expertise for open world PVP!

[BaronV]

Let me just start off by stating what my position on expertise is: I think its a stupid pointless stat that serves no purpose other than to separate PvP and PvE gear.

 

I believe expertise is inherently unfair and discriminates against casuals (specifically people who mostly PvE and hardly ever PvP).

 

Also for clarification I play on an RP-PvE server, if that helps give you an idea of my mindset

 

That said, I can understand having expertise matter in warzones. its a closed environment pvp and you want to create a different reward system compared to flashpoints and ops. fine.

 

But why does expertise matter in OPvP?? It is an open world where anyone can participate for any duration of time. Sometimes also being forced to participate unwittingly (eg: when unintentionally flagged, then ganked)

 

With expertise the way it is set up, it gives people with zero expertise a ZERO chance of survival in any pvp fight! It is just plain unfair in oPvP and will only serve to discourage casuals from trying out the oPvP such as the gree event.

 

Yesterday i was repeatedly being ganked by one opp faction player (ie: targetting me personally, and following me around to gank) in the PvP area of the gree event (remb im on an RP-PvE server).

 

Arguments about being "okay since its a pvp area", i still have absolutely no way of defending myself and no chance whatsoever of winning the fight because i have zero expertise.

 

My group mates got fed up of that person ganking me, and decided to attack that person the next time she attacked me. We all had zero expertise (but are pretty well geared in PvE gear), but even 3 against 1 stood no chance against her. (Granted we probably are also not good at pvp since none of us do it) but because expertise is the most important thing in pvp (30% more dmg taken, 30% less damge dealt if you have 0 exp) we never had a chance either way.

 

Additionally, once I was out of the pvp area, that person continued to follow me and randomly attack me in the pve area (since my flag wont go off just by exiting the pvp area)

 

My point is this - since content in oPvP is always still more PvE than anything (there are still other mobs etc that you are fighting, isnt it more likely that people will wear pve gear? (except those who intend to specifically pvp) Doesnt expertise just give an unfair advantage to those who wear pvp gear in the open world??

 

At least in warzones you are only killing other players (and getting benefits from it) so it is expected that everyone will be in pvp gear.

[KettleBelll]

You are on a RP-PvE server.

 

 

 

Just don't flag yourself for PvP, and role-play being a coward.

[Paltan]

I don't think they will change something on that, the best recommendation I have for you is doing little bit of PVP until you get a pvp set and use it in PVE world, I know it sucks I had the same thing happen to me and my friends we were 3 against 1, that was in World of Warcraft and we were not standing a chance and that player was only targeting us specifically, at one point because we did open an in game ticket, the guy got a 24 hours banned because it was becoming harassment and the pattern was there and since were 3 to open the ticket at the same time, well anyway good luck!

[kevlarto]

Let me just start off by stating what my position on expertise is: I think its a stupid pointless stat that serves no purpose other than to separate PvP and PvE gear.

I believe expertise is inherently unfair and discriminates against casuals (specifically people who mostly PvE and hardly ever PvP).

 

Also for clarification I play on an RP-PvE server, if that helps give you an idea of my mindset

 

That said, I can understand having expertise matter in warzones. its a closed environment pvp and you want to create a different reward system compared to flashpoints and ops. fine.

 

But why does expertise matter in OPvP?? It is an open world where anyone can participate for any duration of time. Sometimes also being forced to participate unwittingly (eg: when unintentionally flagged, then ganked)

 

With expertise the way it is set up, it gives people with zero expertise a ZERO chance of survival in any pvp fight! It is just plain unfair in oPvP and will only serve to discourage casuals from trying out the oPvP such as the gree event.

 

Yesterday i was repeatedly being ganked by one opp faction player (ie: targetting me personally, and following me around to gank) in the PvP area of the gree event (remb im on an RP-PvE server).

 

Arguments about being "okay since its a pvp area", i still have absolutely no way of defending myself and no chance whatsoever of winning the fight because i have zero expertise.

 

My group mates got fed up of that person ganking me, and decided to attack that person the next time she attacked me. We all had zero expertise (but are pretty well geared in PvE gear), but even 3 against 1 stood no chance against her. (Granted we probably are also not good at pvp since none of us do it) but because expertise is the most important thing in pvp (30% more dmg taken, 30% less damge dealt if you have 0 exp) we never had a chance either way.

 

Additionally, once I was out of the pvp area, that person continued to follow me and randomly attack me in the pve area (since my flag wont go off just by exiting the pvp area)

 

My point is this - since content in oPvP is always still more PvE than anything (there are still other mobs etc that you are fighting, isnt it more likely that people will wear pve gear? (except those who intend to specifically pvp) Doesnt expertise just give an unfair advantage to those who wear pvp gear in the open world??

 

At least in warzones you are only killing other players (and getting benefits from it) so it is expected that everyone will be in pvp gear.

 

I agree with that first line 110%, there are other ways to do armor, like a set bonus so pvp'ers and pve'ers still have armor suited for them, seems like expertise is the bane for the dev's and a stat not worth the effort the dev's devote to it, I sure would like to see something different.

Edited March 21, 2013 by kevlarto

[Alec_Fortescue]

I'd rather have'em remove expertise altogether and let people gear up from pvp and pve. This would reduce grind time and help the gear v skill issue. I am only pvping with one character already because of the valor not being legacy wide... :'( Edited March 21, 2013 by Alec_Fortescue

[mattkingsw]

Well my main toon is level 47 and 47 valor, with nearly 2000+ Ranked Warzone Coms, and 2750(cap) Warzone Coms, and a Battlemasters Bag in the bank. If I could, I would have 10,000 warzone comms by 50, unfortunately they capped it. Essentially I will be in Elited PVP gear at 50, completely skipping recruits junk, any pieces I am missing I will fill within a couple of days. It's really not much of a grind to PVP, so expertise isn't a big deal.. Just play some warzones.

 

For me, I have zero interest in PVE, so it was easy. But if I needed PVE gear I would still do the grind for it.

 

Be thankful the PVP-Gear grind is a FRAGMENT of what it used to be.. Imagine grinding bags for a 1-5% chance of an armor drop in the bag! I recall people getting 20 bags and only 2 pieces of armor. THAT was a grind and lottery combined.. Now PVP gear is easy-mode to get...

 

Valor is literally EASY to get.. Legacy Wide? You guys want easy mode beyond belief. My 14 Powertech has 14 valor, and at 50 will have 50 valor.. It really DOES NOT take any time at all.

Edited March 21, 2013 by mattkingsw

[Lung_Tien_Lien]

Well my main toon is level 47 and 47 valor, with nearly 2000+ Ranked Warzone Coms, and 2750(cap) Warzone Coms, and a Battlemasters Bag in the bank. If I could, I would have 10,000 warzone comms by 50, unfortunately they capped it. Essentially I will be in Elited PVP gear at 50, completely skipping recruits junk, any pieces I am missing I will fill within a couple of days. It's really not much of a grind to PVP, so expertise isn't a big deal.. Just play some warzones.

 

For me, I have zero interest in PVE, so it was easy. But if I needed PVE gear I would still do the grind for it.

 

Be thankful the PVP-Gear grind is a FRAGMENT of what it used to be.. Imagine grinding bags for a 1-5% chance of an armor drop in the bag! I recall people getting 20 bags and only 2 pieces of armor. THAT was a grind and lottery combined.. Now PVP gear is easy-mode to get...

 

Valor is literally EASY to get.. Legacy Wide? You guys want easy mode beyond belief. My 14 Powertech has 14 valor, and at 50 will have 50 valor.. It really DOES NOT take any time at all.

 

What are you talking about? Did you read the entire first post? If so, please make sure you understood it correctly.

 

I do so love people who accuse other players of wanting "easy mode" without having understood the issue at all. The OP doesn't want to be some "ultra-awesome-pwn-PVP-champion" without investing any time or effort, they want to be able to defend themselves against random people in open world PVP without having to grind PVP gear, because they feel that they're at a severe disadvantage without it.

[BaronV]

I don't think they will change something on that, the best recommendation I have for you is doing little bit of PVP until you get a pvp set and use it in PVE world, I know it sucks I had the same thing happen to me and my friends we were 3 against 1, that was in World of Warcraft and we were not standing a chance and that player was only targeting us specifically, at one point because we did open an in game ticket, the guy got a 24 hours banned because it was becoming harassment and the pattern was there and since were 3 to open the ticket at the same time, well anyway good luck!

 

I did open a ticket and report the person for harassment. But that is not what i am on about. Why should expertise matter in OPvP in the first place?? It is just an unfair advantage over another group of players!

[cycao]

I did open a ticket and report the person for harassment. But that is not what i am on about. Why should expertise matter in OPvP in the first place?? It is just an unfair advantage over another group of players!

 

Well then the argument would be made that players with PvE gear would have the advantage.

[whatbrick]

Yesterday i was repeatedly being ganked by one opp faction player (ie: targetting me personally, and following me around to gank) in the PvP area of the gree event (remb im on an RP-PvE server).

[/color]

 

You entered a PVP area which means you consented to being attacked by other players. If you don't want to get burned, then do not stick your hand in a fire.

 

If your biggest issue is the repeated ganking, then that could count as harassment and you should file a compaint. In that case expertise is not at fault, the player doing the harassing is.

 

However, it sounds like you are just complaining about being beaten by someone in better gear in general. Would you still complain about getting beaten if you were in Tionese and were continuously ganked by someone in BiS Dreadguard? Would it make you feel better being slaughtered by someone in PVE gear?

 

Regardless, expertise is not unfair because it is available (easily available, I might add) to everyone.

[BaronV]

You entered a PVP area which means you consented to being attacked by other players. If you don't want to get burned, then do not stick your hand in a fire.

 

If your biggest issue is the repeated ganking, then that could count as harassment and you should file a compaint. In that case expertise is not at fault, the player doing the harassing is.

 

However, it sounds like you are just complaining about being beaten by someone in better gear in general. Would you still complain about getting beaten if you were in Tionese and were continuously ganked by someone in BiS Dreadguard? Would it make you feel better being slaughtered by someone in PVE gear?

 

Regardless, expertise is not unfair because it is available (easily available, I might add) to everyone.

 

This topic is not about my being harassed. It is not about my being attacked while flagged. It is about why i think expertise should have no relevance in oPvP

 

My complaint is that my having zero expertise means i have a 0% chance of winning when attacked by someone with lots of expertise - in an area where it is very likely that people will be in pve gear.

[BaronV]

Well then the argument would be made that players with PvE gear would have the advantage.

 

not true. People in PvP gear are quite capable of handling their own in PvE content. EWH gear is for the most part comparable to BH.

[cycao]

not true. People in PvP gear are quite capable of handling their own in PvE content. EWH gear is for the most part comparable to BH.

 

My min/maxed EWH has less stats than black hole but yes, I can and have done HM ops with it but as a filler role only. Also this gap between expertise is only getting larger in 2.0 when you will see the DR removed and the effects of it are doubled which means expertise will be more important than ever and rendering it useless in ops and rendering PvE gear useless for PvP which it more or less already is.

[whatbrick]

My complaint is that my having zero expertise means i have a 0% chance of winning when attacked by someone with lots of expertise - in an area where it is very likely that people will be in pve gear.

 

You went into a PVP area, where it is very likely that people would be in PVP gear. What did you think was going to happen?

 

Look at it this way, if you went into HM TFB in level 50 greens you would be killed just as many times and just as quickly. In order to do that level of PVE content, you need the appropriate level PVE gear. It's the same for PVP, regardless if it is in a warzone or out in the open world.

 

By your own admission you do not PVP, so why are you now subjecting yourself to it in the first place without the appropriate gear?

Edited March 21, 2013 by whatbrick

[BaronV]

You went into a PVP area, where it is very likely that people would be in PVP gear. What did you think was going to happen?

 

Look at it this way, if you went into HM TFB in level 50 greens you would be killed just as many times and just as quickly. In order to do that level of PVE content, you need the appropriate level PVE gear. It's the same for PVP, regardless if it is in a warzone or out in the open world.

 

By your own admission you do not PVP, so why are you now subjecting yourself to it in the first place without the appropriate gear?

 

Not on an rp-pve server. Its perfectly fair to assume that most people are not pvp-ing when there is a que for the pylon

 

Regardless of which you are not answering my question - WHY should expertise matter in oPvP?? All it does is discriminate and discourage casuals.

Edited March 21, 2013 by BaronV

[saremun]

Let me just start off by stating what my position on expertise is: I think its a stupid pointless stat that serves no purpose other than to separate PvP and PvE gear.

 

I believe expertise is inherently unfair and discriminates against casuals (specifically people who mostly PvE and hardly ever PvP).

 

Also for clarification I play on an RP-PvE server, if that helps give you an idea of my mindset

 

That said, I can understand having expertise matter in warzones. its a closed environment pvp and you want to create a different reward system compared to flashpoints and ops. fine.

 

But why does expertise matter in OPvP?? It is an open world where anyone can participate for any duration of time. Sometimes also being forced to participate unwittingly (eg: when unintentionally flagged, then ganked)

 

With expertise the way it is set up, it gives people with zero expertise a ZERO chance of survival in any pvp fight! It is just plain unfair in oPvP and will only serve to discourage casuals from trying out the oPvP such as the gree event.

 

Yesterday i was repeatedly being ganked by one opp faction player (ie: targetting me personally, and following me around to gank) in the PvP area of the gree event (remb im on an RP-PvE server).

 

Arguments about being "okay since its a pvp area", i still have absolutely no way of defending myself and no chance whatsoever of winning the fight because i have zero expertise.

 

My group mates got fed up of that person ganking me, and decided to attack that person the next time she attacked me. We all had zero expertise (but are pretty well geared in PvE gear), but even 3 against 1 stood no chance against her. (Granted we probably are also not good at pvp since none of us do it) but because expertise is the most important thing in pvp (30% more dmg taken, 30% less damge dealt if you have 0 exp) we never had a chance either way.

 

Additionally, once I was out of the pvp area, that person continued to follow me and randomly attack me in the pve area (since my flag wont go off just by exiting the pvp area)

 

My point is this - since content in oPvP is always still more PvE than anything (there are still other mobs etc that you are fighting, isnt it more likely that people will wear pve gear? (except those who intend to specifically pvp) Doesnt expertise just give an unfair advantage to those who wear pvp gear in the open world??

 

At least in warzones you are only killing other players (and getting benefits from it) so it is expected that everyone will be in pvp gear.

 

fully agree, iam not a hardcore PVP guys but i like to PVP sometimes on different characters which means i dont have one character with full top PVP gear.

[KariTalRathe]

I don't really get this. Why don't you just wear your own PvP gear to that zone so you do have the expertise to cushion the blows? If you don't have an expertise set, then presumably you are not yet L50 and this other player would have beaten you whatever you were wearing.

 

PS: Shame on your team-mates for not immediately jumping in the first time you got attacked.

 

PPS: I play on a RP server and consider queuing for pylons to be an abomination and totally against the spirit of the event.

 

PPPS: Server classifications, like language, specify the main activity on each server but all servers are all inclusive. Please stop using server classifications to stifle legitimate content simply because YOU don't enjoy it.

[BaronV]

I don't really get this. Why don't you just wear your own PvP gear to that zone so you do have the expertise to cushion the blows? If you don't have an expertise set, then presumably you are not yet L50 and this other player would have beaten you whatever you were wearing.

 

PS: Shame on your team-mates for not immediately jumping in the first time you got attacked.

 

PPS: I play on a RP server and consider queuing for pylons to be an abomination and totally against the spirit of the event.

 

PPPS: Server classifications, like language, specify the main activity on each server but all servers are all inclusive. Please stop using server classifications to stifle legitimate content simply because YOU don't enjoy it.

 

And shame on you for trying to derail the topic of this thread. This thread is about WHY SHOULD EXPERTISE MATTER FOR OPEN PVP????

[cycao]

And shame on you for trying to derail the topic of this thread. This thread is about WHY SHOULD EXPERTISE MATTER FOR OPEN PVP????

 

Ill try and actually answer this question. One would think that when engaging in any form of PvP that PvP gear would be the appropriate choice.

[Arutar]

And shame on you for trying to derail the topic of this thread. This thread is about WHY SHOULD EXPERTISE MATTER FOR OPEN PVP????

 

BECAUSE OTHERWISE PVE EQUIPMENT WOULD BE BETTER FOR PVP WHICH KINDA DEFEATS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF PVP GEAR!!!!!!!

 

p.s. Just curious, would you support PVP Equipment being better than PVE Equiment for, say, Operations? Would make as much sense as your topic.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Arutar

[whatbrick]

Not on an rp-pve server. Its perfectly fair to assume that most people are not pvp-ing when there is a que for the pylon

 

Regardless of which you are not answering my question - WHY should expertise matter in oPvP?? All it does is discriminate and discourage casuals.

 

Yes, even on an RP-PVE server. I'm on a PVE server and I occasionally, but willingly, enter warzones (a PVP area) fully expecting to be attacked by other players. The PVP area in the Gree event, and the Outlaw's Den, are similar situations. Just because others are not engaging in PVP in a PVP area does not negate the fact that you are still in a PVP area and are subject to it's rules. You made the wrong assumption going in and got killed for it. That failure is on you.

 

Expertise matters because this is a gear-based MMO, which is a design choice made by the devs. Just like you need the appropriate levels of your classes main stat and off-stats (crit, surge, etc.) to perform well in operations, you need the appropriate level of expertise to perform well in PVP.

 

Might as well ask why does cunning matter for a smuggler/agent. It's an arbitrary number the devs picked out to make us grind for the stuff we want to do, so we stay in the game longer and give them more money. None of which matters because you still chose to do an activity that you weren't geared for.

 

Besides, you never answered my earlier question: If you were killed by someone in better PVE gear, would you have the same complaint? If not, why? If so, what is the difference between getting killed in better PVE gear and getting killed in better PVP gear?

[BaronV]

BECAUSE OTHERWISE PVE EQUIPMENT WOULD BE BETTER FOR PVP WHICH KINDA DEFEATS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF PVP GEAR!!!!!!!

 

p.s. Just curious, would you support PVP Equipment being better than PVE Equiment for, say, Operations? Would make as much sense as your topic.

 

PvP equipment is already comparable to BH gear in most scenarios. I have done my fair share of HM ops with people in PvP gear so your point is moot.

 

A more appropriate thing would be for expertise to result in 30% less damage dealt and 30% more damage received against ALL pve mobs.

 

If pve has disadvantage against pvp, then pvp should have the same disadvantage against pve

[BaronV]

Besides, you never answered my earlier question: If you were killed by someone in better PVE gear, would you have the same complaint? If not, why? If so, what is the difference between getting killed in better PVE gear and getting killed in better PVP gear?

 

No i would not. Though i disagree with it i accept that I may be attacked at any time when my pvp flag is on (intentionally or not) even though im in a pve server where it is generally not done. That would be a separate issue to the issue on hand.

 

I do not however accept that people in pvp gear should automatically have an unfair advantage against people with no expertise in the open world where it is full of pve mobs and people would probably be in pve gear.

 

Otherwise expertise should have the equal disadvantage when fighting pve mobs.

[Arkerus]

Let me just start off by stating what my position on expertise is: I think its a stupid pointless stat that serves no purpose other than to separate PvP and PvE gear.

 

I believe expertise is inherently unfair and discriminates against casuals (specifically people who mostly PvE and hardly ever PvP).

 

Also for clarification I play on an RP-PvE server, if that helps give you an idea of my mindset

 

That said, I can understand having expertise matter in warzones. its a closed environment pvp and you want to create a different reward system compared to flashpoints and ops. fine.

 

But why does expertise matter in OPvP?? It is an open world where anyone can participate for any duration of time. Sometimes also being forced to participate unwittingly (eg: when unintentionally flagged, then ganked)

 

With expertise the way it is set up, it gives people with zero expertise a ZERO chance of survival in any pvp fight! It is just plain unfair in oPvP and will only serve to discourage casuals from trying out the oPvP such as the gree event.

 

Yesterday i was repeatedly being ganked by one opp faction player (ie: targetting me personally, and following me around to gank) in the PvP area of the gree event (remb im on an RP-PvE server).

 

Arguments about being "okay since its a pvp area", i still have absolutely no way of defending myself and no chance whatsoever of winning the fight because i have zero expertise.

 

My group mates got fed up of that person ganking me, and decided to attack that person the next time she attacked me. We all had zero expertise (but are pretty well geared in PvE gear), but even 3 against 1 stood no chance against her. (Granted we probably are also not good at pvp since none of us do it) but because expertise is the most important thing in pvp (30% more dmg taken, 30% less damge dealt if you have 0 exp) we never had a chance either way.

 

Additionally, once I was out of the pvp area, that person continued to follow me and randomly attack me in the pve area (since my flag wont go off just by exiting the pvp area)

 

My point is this - since content in oPvP is always still more PvE than anything (there are still other mobs etc that you are fighting, isnt it more likely that people will wear pve gear? (except those who intend to specifically pvp) Doesnt expertise just give an unfair advantage to those who wear pvp gear in the open world??

 

At least in warzones you are only killing other players (and getting benefits from it) so it is expected that everyone will be in pvp gear.

 

Your first sentence invalidates your entire argument. If you wonder into a PvP area with zero expertise, get ready to pay the consequences.

 

If you want to complain about the design of the event, sure, go ahead. Don't confuse that with PvP gear and expertise.

[Covaltage]

I don't get it. The quest is called [PvP] Charging the Pylon. (not [AREA], not[Daily], not [Heroic], [PvP]). A quest that give Warzone Comms as it's quest reward. But you don't think you should have to have PvP gear to do PvP quests?