How would Darth Maul do in TOR

[Ventessel]

Yes because Nick Gillard, a stunt co-ordinator is a brilliant source of information that clearly trumps every other source there is.

 

Well, he invented the lightsaber combat styles and set the ability levels of everyone in the prequel eras, and basically dictated everything about the duels because Lucas deferred to his judgement, so it's a fairly good place to start.

 

Furthermore, the powers of observation pretty clearly show us that the three guys Mace brought with him were incompetent idiots. Only one of them even approximates raising his guard, the other two just go down without a fight.

 

Effectively, Mace should have just gone alone, or brought punching bags.

[Beniboybling]

Of course, anyone who wasn't an accomplished practitioner (a "master, if you will) of a certain form would likely lose to Maul in a fight. Maul is competent, and very proficient with his lightsaber, but so are many others in this era.

 

Many Sith are likely masters of two or more forms of lightsaber combat, and there are clearly many experienced practitioners of numerous forms which were considered almost unknown in later years:

Two blade Ataru, for instance, is practiced by many Marauders.

Saberstaffs are not just familiar, but common among many Jedi and Sith combatants.

I wouldn't be so sure, according to Bane's Rule of Two spreading the Sith teachings across many 'students' only dilutes that power and weakens it. We can apply this to our debate: during the Great Galactic War and subsequent Cold War Jedi and Sith were being killed left right and center, and Sith were being churned out with equal velocity. Intial training likely lasted months, then they would be sent to the front lines and learn from experience. Not all Sith were taking on as apprentices and those who were likely had little time for extensive tutelage and their masters only possessed a small piece of dark side knowledge.

 

On the other hand the Rule of Two, and Sidious in particular, meant that all knowledge of the dark side was focused in a single individual. Sidious possessed immense knowledge in the dark side and had a lot of time to train his apprentice, who would have experienced far more exclusive and 'high quality' training than most Sith in the TOR period would have received at Korriban. So his ablities would likely have been far more than 'above average' - his training already gives him an edge over most Sith in the Empire.

He gained control of the Death Watch by winning a duel, took on the Black Sun by basically kicking in the door and killing everyone with a lightsaber... I'm not seeing him use anything besides brute force.

 

Sure, he was an effective tracker and scout when he had to be, but his plan of attack always consisted of "Run straight in and turn on my lightsaber!"

He gained control of the Death Watch by first convincing them to invade Mandalore, and exploiting many crime families to aid him. He then put a clever plan into place to make the Mandalorians look like the saviors which worked perfectly. He then found the perfect puppet to rule Mandalore and proceeded to play on the Mandalorian code of honor, as he had planned from the start, to usurp Vizsla and achieve control over the Mandalorians. He then allowed Satine to contact the Jedi, anticipating that Kenobi would come alone both because of his friendship with the Duchess and Mandalore's neutrality. I see extensive uses of manipulation and cunning in that plan. And that's without any tutelage from Sidious. Edited March 23, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Furthermore, the powers of observation pretty clearly show us that the three guys Mace brought with him were incompetent idiots.

One does not become a member of the Jedi Council by being an 'incompetent idiot' - but you'll likely respond to that by saying that the PT Jedi were piss poor in just about everything.

 

The only reason the went down so quickly and failed to raise there guard was because of Sidious' immense capabilities in Force speed which he always used to augment his abilities in lightsaber combat. If you read Darth Plagueis you'll know that often when dispatching his enemies he seemed like a 'phantom'. Most likely he learned this from Plagueis himself who was also highly proficient in the skill.

 

Once again, Sidious is just that good.

[Spartanik]

Sure, he was an effective tracker and scout when he had to be, but his plan of attack always consisted of "Run straight in and turn on my lightsaber!"

On the contrary, my impression i have from maul is that he was a planner and tactitian. He planed every fight before hand when he could. The fight with obi wan and qui gon jin for instance, he lead them trough the power core. His intention was to seperate them.

I belive his main weakness was like all sith overconfidence, arrogance off course, and too much reliance on what he had planed, even too much on his fighting style, his lack of adaptation if you will to unforseen factors outside his plan and thinking. On nabboo , obi wan, later, on his ship with savage against obi wan again but this time was ventress to happen, and on mandalore, sidious.

 

Maul in TOR era , hum hard to say, he might be above average due to his training, but i hardly seen him doing anything that any other sith on the empire couldnt do.

It most depends in his knoweldge of his enviroment.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Spartanik

[Beniboybling]

On the contrary, my impression i have from maul is that he was a planner and tactitian. He planed every fight before hand when he could. The fight with obi wan and qui gon jin for instance, he lead them trough the power core. His intention was to seperate them.

I belive his main weakness was like all sith overconfidence, arrogance off course, and too much reliance on what he had planed, even too much on his fighting style, his lack of adaptation if you will to unforseen factors outside his plan and thinking. On nabboo , obi wan, later, on his ship with savage against obi wan again but this time was ventress to happen, and on mandalore, sidious.

 

Maul in TOR era , hum hard to say, he might be above average due to his training, but i hardly seen him doing anything that any other sith on the empire couldnt do.

It most depends in his knoweldge of his enviroment.

Exactly, there is no evidence that Maul just ran blindly into engagements. All these engagements were planned and anticipated.

[AlexDougherty]

Darth Maul was an adequate swordsman, but he was no master, in the scenes in the Phantom Menace he holds off two Jedi, true, but that's because he was using a weapon that the Jedi had allowed to fall into disuse. Given the number of opportunities to gain an edge that he allowed to pass, I don't think he could have beaten a Jedi used to the saberstaff.

 

It has been said that his master Sidious was a master of the lightsaber, but this does not mean that he passed on that mastery to Maul. Also I have to doubt that Sidious was a lightsaber master, in the only fight we see him in, he gets trounced by Windu, not the form you expect from someone who has mastered all seven forms.

 

Finally, the Sith and the Jedi lost a lot of techniques, they were lesser fighters by the time of the movies, they did relearn somthings but these seem to have been force techniques rather than lightsaber moves.

 

In conclusion, I doubt Maul would have been a big player in this era, in fact I doubt any saberist would be considered anything more than competent.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Darth Maul was an adequate swordsman, but he was no master, in the scenes in the Phantom Menace he holds off two Jedi, true, but that's because he was using a weapon that the Jedi had allowed to fall into disuse. Given the number of opportunities to gain an edge that he allowed to pass, I don't think he could have beaten a Jedi used to the saberstaff.

 

It has been said that his master Sidious was a master of the lightsaber, but this does not mean that he passed on that mastery to Maul. Also I have to doubt that Sidious was a lightsaber master, in the only fight we see him in, he gets trounced by Windu, not the form you expect from someone who has mastered all seven forms.

 

Finally, the Sith and the Jedi lost a lot of techniques, they were lesser fighters by the time of the movies, they did relearn somthings but these seem to have been force techniques rather than lightsaber moves.

 

In conclusion, I doubt Maul would have been a big player in this era, in fact I doubt any saberist would be considered anything more than competent.

 

What? Sidious trounced by Windu?...No, they were at an impass and yes Sidious is a master with a lightsaber and they weren't lesser fighters by the movie era they were still the same as before and only improved.

[Aurbere]

And here we go again...Our favorite movie characters are the gods of the universe yoda-most powerful jedi ever,ever and Palpatine most powerful sith ever ,ever yada yada bla bla bla...

This is so laughable i am starting to wondering if you are really serious.

Yes Palpatine is the most powerful force user in his time and the culmination of rule of two,yes Yoda is the most powerful jedi in his time. BUT EVER IN ALL GALACTIC HISTORY . i mean seriously ,stop it its getting old and childish.And there are no evidence whatsover to support that ,except lone statements.

 

Everything Yoda and Palpatine did is old news when you consider all SW lore(talking about abilities).They are considered cool and all powerful for no other reason than because they are in the movies and in the spotlight .Nothing more.

I mean don't get me wrong Palpatine is one of my favorite Sith ever,and he is my favorite movie character,and obviously he is among the most power sith ever,but the fanboysm and blind single-mindedness shown by some movie fans in this forum is ridiculous.

 

* * *

I don't think when in most of the lore revolving around the movies and in most of the G-canon about them, when they say ever/of all time/in galactic history,when they say that ,i don't think they go beyond the Ruusan Reformation or Darth Ruin at the most.

 

Calm down. This whole crusade against the canon is getting annoying. Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Yoda is the most powerful Jedi pre-Luke. Get over it.

[Darkondo]

Calm down. This whole crusade against the canon is getting annoying. Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Yoda is the most powerful Jedi pre-Luke. Get over it.

 

^this a million times over. Canon is canon whether you like it or not, no point in arguing it.

[Ventessel]

One does not become a member of the Jedi Council by being an 'incompetent idiot' - but you'll likely respond to that by saying that the PT Jedi were piss poor in just about everything.

 

The only reason the went down so quickly and failed to raise there guard was because of Sidious' immense capabilities in Force speed which he always used to augment his abilities in lightsaber combat. If you read Darth Plagueis you'll know that often when dispatching his enemies he seemed like a 'phantom'. Most likely he learned this from Plagueis himself who was also highly proficient in the skill.

 

Once again, Sidious is just that good.

 

I see little evidence that you can't get on the council while still being an idiot. Qui-Gon certainly had a low enough opinion of many council members. The individuals concerned here had demonstrated no particular wisdom or intellect, much less tactical aptitude or adept swordsmanship. So when Mace brought them along, he really was bringing the "B-Team". The "A-Team" would have been Kenobi and Yoda, and possibly Skywalker. He was in no rush to arrest Palpatine, just blundered in with the first three guys he grabbed on his way out of the temple.

 

As for Palpatine's speed and ferocity, I commend his aggression in attacking first and hitting hard. However, he didn't really move all that fast. Aside from his initial leap, which allowed the first strike, those Jedi should have defended themselves much better if they really were blademasters or some such. Especially given the precognitive abilities of Jedi when fighting.

 

Since Windu continued to fight Palpatine just fine, we can only assume that those three Jedi were run of the mill, generic Jedi with no particular skill at the blade.

[Ventessel]

Exactly, there is no evidence that Maul just ran blindly into engagements. All these engagements were planned and anticipated.

 

If the Theed Reactor fight was his idea of attempting to gain a tactical advantage... just wow.

 

He could easily have been killed at any point along the way to the small reactor chamber, firstly. Furthermore, attacking two people at once is hardly a tactically sound decision. He completely forfeited the element of surprise with his little door opening stunt...

 

Essentially, everything Maul does indicates an arrogant, overconfident little Sith Apprentice (how many of those have we seen in the Sith Empire...) who comes up with one clever idea (I'll lure the Jedi into a little space where they can't use Ataru!) and blunders into a fight that gets him killed.

[Ventessel]

Calm down. This whole crusade against the canon is getting annoying. Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Yoda is the most powerful Jedi pre-Luke. Get over it.

 

Technically speaking, those two are the most powerful. The exact nature of their power may remain somewhat murky, but it's safe to say that Sidious and Yoda were the strongest in the Force and both highly skilled with lightsabers, easily ranking among the best duelists in history.

 

Despite Yoda never really winning a duel of much consequence... but whatever.

 

The real thing to consider is that while they're the most powerful, it is not necessarily by a wide margin. There could be any number of close seconds and runners up for the title of "most powerful ever".

[Ventessel]

I wouldn't be so sure, according to Bane's Rule of Two spreading the Sith teachings across many 'students' only dilutes that power and weakens it. We can apply this to our debate: during the Great Galactic War and subsequent Cold War Jedi and Sith were being killed left right and center, and Sith were being churned out with equal velocity. Intial training likely lasted months, then they would be sent to the front lines and learn from experience. Not all Sith were taking on as apprentices and those who were likely had little time for extensive tutelage and their masters only possessed a small piece of dark side knowledge.

Initial training did not last months, although the most exceptional students might complete it in months. This statement is baseless.

On the other hand the Rule of Two, and Sidious in particular, meant that all knowledge of the dark side was focused in a single individual. Sidious possessed immense knowledge in the dark side and had a lot of time to train his apprentice, who would have experienced far more exclusive and 'high quality' training than most Sith in the TOR period would have received at Korriban. So his ablities would likely have been far more than 'above average' - his training already gives him an edge over most Sith in the Empire.

This is mostly Bane's vanity speaking. His personal philosophy on individual power should not be confused with actual combat prowess. Bane appears to be expressing something along the lines of the Conservation of Ninjitsu; a law wherein the more Ninjas there are on screen, the easier each of them will be to defeat. However, he could also be speaking of individual influence, where by sharing your authority with others, you dilute it.

 

Bane's order of two was arguably quite weak for a long time. He had to slowly build up his influence and wealth, working from scratch until his plan culminated with Sidious starting the Clone Wars. The Sith kept their heads down and carefully trained each new apprentice, because they were far too weak to confront the Jedi openly.

 

In the TOR era, Sith receive plenty of training, and there are tons of Sith Lords and Darths running around pursuing dark and evil knowledge. Inevitably, more skilled blademasters will emerge and more secrets of the Force will be unearthed due to the sheer number of people working on it. You essentially have the rule of two enacted over and over again as each Sith Lord pursues power and trains their apprentices. No evidence to suggest that their training was neglected, so much as the inevitable infighting prevented them from focusing on the Jedi.

 

The heart of the Rule of Two was to make sure that when the Sith killed each other, it didn't alert the Jedi or divide them too much.

 

He gained control of the Death Watch by first convincing them to invade Mandalore, and exploiting many crime families to aid him. He then put a clever plan into place to make the Mandalorians look like the saviors which worked perfectly. He then found the perfect puppet to rule Mandalore and proceeded to play on the Mandalorian code of honor, as he had planned from the start, to usurp Vizsla and achieve control over the Mandalorians. He then allowed Satine to contact the Jedi, anticipating that Kenobi would come alone both because of his friendship with the Duchess and Mandalore's neutrality. I see extensive uses of manipulation and cunning in that plan. And that's without any tutelage from Sidious.

It appears that after his resurrection Maul learned a few things about caution. That's great for him, I suppose. I suppose I would have to watch the Clone Wars episodes pertaining to this before making a judgement about his plans there, so I'll take you word that he was cunning in this instance. It does sound like a well executed attempt at revenge, except for the part where he fails in epic fashion to accomplish his goal.

[Beniboybling]

If the Theed Reactor fight was his idea of attempting to gain a tactical advantage... just wow.

 

He could easily have been killed at any point along the way to the small reactor chamber, firstly. Furthermore, attacking two people at once is hardly a tactically sound decision. He completely forfeited the element of surprise with his little door opening stunt...

 

Essentially, everything Maul does indicates an arrogant, overconfident little Sith Apprentice (how many of those have we seen in the Sith Empire...) who comes up with one clever idea (I'll lure the Jedi into a little space where they can't use Ataru!) and blunders into a fight that gets him killed.

Wait , what? It worked lol. Don't you remember the part where Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan got separated, Qui-Gon tired out and couldn't use Ataru and Maul killed him? And then proceeded to defeat Obi-Wan?

 

The only reason Maul died was, yes, because he was overconfident and as a Sith wanted to savor his triumph rather than dispatching Obi-Wan quickly. But that had nothing to do with a poorly executed plan - which worked perfectly - and its not like the TOR Sith were any less arrogant. So I really don't see your point.

Initial training did not last months, although the most exceptional students might complete it in months. This statement is baseless.

Well I'm only basing this on my experience in SWTOR in which my training was pretty rapid. But of course we have to take into account game mechanics etc. However this statement is not baseless, it is true that consequence of the great number of deaths during the Great Galactic War Sith training became quicker and the selection process less 'elite' with slaves etc. joining the ranks. I mean, I highly doubt every Sith in the Sith Empire received 15 years of intensive, individual training at such a level that only Sidious could provide. More likely they were trained for a couple of years at the hands of a relatively weak 'Overseer' with 10 other students.

 

And really, in my experience in SWTOR, I haven't come across many 'blademasters' and Force savants

This is mostly Bane's vanity speaking...

Bane would strongly disagree with you. Bane's philosophy of individual power was central to the Rule of Two and was directly concerned with prowess with the Force and lightsaber combat. You forget that if multiple Sith are all running about collecting secrets of the Force (which for the record they rarely did) they will not share this power, they will covet it for themselves. So we have snippets of dark side knowledge scattered amongst many. Its not like all the Sith were working together to fuel one big machine. They were all working for themselves. Allow me to give an analogy:

 

Sith Empire: We have a cake, and 1000 hungry people all wanting that cake. A huge scramble ensues with everyone grabbing a slice of that cake, people fighting over slices and scooping up the dregs that fall to the floor, trampling other people and other pieces in the process. Its carnage, and ultimately everyone only ends up with a fraction of that cake, All the while a bunch of other people are going around butchering them and burning the cake.

 

Rule of Two: We have a cake, and 1 hungry person wanting that cake. They have the entire cake to themselves and are free to enjoy that cake and have plenty of time to enjoy every slice.

 

In the end we end up with lots of Sith with scraps of power, and 1 Sith with all the power. Case in point: at his peak Sidious had knowledge of all forms of the dark side in Sith history. Basically if we combined all the knowledge of the Sith Empire together, Sidious would still possess more. Now I'm not saying he passed that knowledge on to Maul, but he's certainly in a better position to train Maul and can train him to perfection in Maul's areas of expertise.

 

Your theory would work if we were talking about the Jedi Order who share and collate their knowledge. But Sith do not, they covet it and hide it from others, then squabble over it and end up killing each other. And for the record, the heart of the Rule of Two was to ensure that each new master would be stronger than the last and would grow exponentially more powerful. Rather than the master being overthrown by multiple weaker apprentices, which is what happened often during the TOR period.

[Beniboybling]

It appears that after his resurrection Maul learned a few things about caution. That's great for him, I suppose. I suppose I would have to watch the Clone Wars episodes pertaining to this before making a judgement about his plans there, so I'll take you word that he was cunning in this instance. It does sound like a well executed attempt at revenge, except for the part where he fails in epic fashion to accomplish his goal.

I advise you do, mainly because there arguably some of the best episodes in the entire series.

 

And yes, his plan did ultimately fail. And again it was down to overconfidence, but in the end he did manage to pretty successfully conquer a planet which places him above a lot of other half-witted Sith in the Sith Empire. However I would agree that he is outclassed by many others, however all I'm saying is he possess enough skill and cunning to be an effective weapon of the Empire. I doubt he would make it as an independent Sith Lord however I do believe he has the potential to become one.

 

Another demonstration of his abilities with a lightsaber would be his duel with Sidious - the fact that he lasts so long against a master of every form is a testament to his skill.

 

Oh, and this.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I advise you do, mainly because there arguably some of the best episodes in the entire series.

 

And yes, his plan did ultimately fail. And again it was down to overconfidence, but in the end he did manage to pretty successfully conquer a planet which places him above a lot of other half-witted Sith in the Sith Empire. However I would agree that he is outclassed by many others, however all I'm saying is he possess enough skill and cunning to be an effective weapon of the Empire. I doubt he would make it as an independent Sith Lord however I do believe he has the potential to become one.

 

Another demonstration of his abilities with a lightsaber would be his duel with Sidious - the fact that he lasts so long against a master of every form is a testament to his skill.

 

Oh, and this.

 

Or the fact Sidious was just merely toying with them. I mean he was smiling and laughing throughout some of that fight, and it was kinda shown even at the beginning(or rather its shown throughout the history) he could have just killed or stopped the fight any time he wanted.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Or the fact Sidious was just merely toying with them. I mean he was smiling and laughing throughout some of that fight, and it was kinda shown even at the beginning(or rather its shown throughout the history) he could have just killed or stopped the fight any time he wanted.

Of course Sidious was vastly superior to Maul in terms of Force ability. But I was more commenting on both Maul's skill with a lightsaber which is displayed here e.g. how he seems to effortlessly transition from double-bladed to single bladed to dual-wielding and also how in lightsaber combat he managed to score a blow on Sidious. Yes Sidious clearly was toying with him, but I doubt to the extent he would allow himself to be hit. That sort of thing doesn't normally apply to the defensive. Sidious was also clearly using Force speed to augment his abilities, and yet Maul managed to keep up.

 

And then there's the part where Sidious seems somewhat physically exhausted by the lightsaber duel and resorts to the Force to subdue Maul. I think he could have stopped the fight with Force powers whenever he wanted, the same can't be said concerning lightsaber combat.

 

I'm my no means saying Maul is a better duelist than Sidious, all I saying is that this duel is a display of Maul's mastery of the lightsaber. Given the fact Sidious killed 3 blademasters in a matter of seconds.

 

P.S. Sidious is always smiling and laughing in all lightsaber duels, because he relishes combat. This does not necessarily mean he is always toying with his foe e.g. Yoda vs Sidious. I mean, I'm no expert on lightsaber combat but it seemed to me that Sidious was putting in a considerable amount of effort when dueling Maul - I mean just compare that duel with his duel with Savage beforehand. Big difference.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Wolfninjajedi]

Of course Sidious was vastly superior to Maul in terms of Force ability. But I was more commenting on both Maul's skill with a lightsaber which is displayed here e.g. how he seems to effortlessly transition from double-bladed to single bladed to dual-wielding and also how in lightsaber combat he managed to score a blow on Sidious. Yes Sidious clearly was toying with him, but I doubt to the extent he would allow himself to be hit. That sort of thing doesn't normally apply to the defensive. Sidious was also clearly using Force speed to augment his abilities, and yet Maul managed to keep up.

 

And then there's the part where Sidious seems somewhat physically exhausted by the lightsaber duel and resorts to the Force to subdue Maul. I think he could have stopped the fight with Force powers whenever he wanted, the same can't be said concerning lightsaber combat.

 

I'm my no means saying Maul is a better duelist than Sidious, all I saying is that this duel is a display of Maul's mastery of the lightsaber. Given the fact Sidious killed 3 blademasters in a matter of seconds.

 

P.S. Sidious is always smiling and laughing in all lightsaber duels, because he relishes combat. This does not necessarily mean he is always toying with his foe e.g. Yoda vs Sidious. I mean, I'm no expert on lightsaber combat but it seemed to me that Sidious was putting in a considerable amount of effort when dueling Maul - I mean just compare that duel with his duel with Savage beforehand. Big difference.

 

True, but he seemed to be clearly doing so. He has moved faster, then Maul could track beforehand so I doubt he was giving it his all..perhaps he was wanting Maul to think he had a chance when he really didn't..but of course this shows a nice showing with Maul and his dueling skills.

[Beniboybling]

True, but he seemed to be clearly doing so. He has moved faster, then Maul could track beforehand so I doubt he was giving it his all..perhaps he was wanting Maul to think he had a chance when he really didn't..but of course this shows a nice showing with Maul and his dueling skills.

According to Wookiee, Sidious often refrained from using his full power to draw his opponents in so maybe there was an element of that here. Nonetheless he was by no means being soft and Maul demonstrated exceptional dueling skills either way.

 

I mean compare that duel with say, the SWTOR cinematics. IMO Darth Maul moves a lot faster and with a lot more skill than the Jedi and Sith in those trailers who are comparatively clunky.

[Wolfninjajedi]

According to Wookiee, Sidious often refrained from using his full power to draw his opponents in so maybe there was an element of that here. Nonetheless he was by no means being soft and Maul demonstrated exceptional dueling skills either way.

 

I mean compare that duel with say, the SWTOR cinematics. IMO Darth Maul moves a lot faster and with a lot more skill than the Jedi and Sith in those trailers who are comparatively clunky.

 

I wouldn't say all of them were clunky. Malgus(though meh..guess you could say he is more brute force), Zallow and Kao all seemed to be fluid with their motions. Not as fast, but not clunky.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Jonoku]

Just note like I said before, Maul in TOR wouldn't be born on Dathomir, he would just be from iridonia. He'd just be a common zabrak force sensitive. Edited March 24, 2013 by Jonoku

[Wolfninjajedi]

Just note like I said before, Maul in TOR wouldn't be born on Dathomir, he would just be from iridonia. He'd just be a common zabrak force sensitive.

 

Tbh I don't really see how that changes him in any way shape or form, its rather moot in the grand scheme of things.

[Spartanik]

Tbh I don't really see how that changes him in any way shape or form, its rather moot in the grand scheme of things.

 

Indeed. Also Whataver he is born he still a zabrak.

[Ventessel]

Wait , what? It worked lol. Don't you remember the part where Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan got separated, Qui-Gon tired out and couldn't use Ataru and Maul killed him? And then proceeded to defeat Obi-Wan?

 

It worked, but was overly complicated and relied on neither of the Jedi managing to kill him during the drawn out duel. I'm saying, if that's an example of Maul's tactical thinking he's either a complete simpleton or he somehow read the script for Phantom Menace.

 

EDIT: Also, Maul would have been screwed if Kenobi and Qui-Gon had been anything more than atrocious at coordinating their attacks.

I mean compare that duel with say, the SWTOR cinematics. IMO Darth Maul moves a lot faster and with a lot more skill than the Jedi and Sith in those trailers who are comparatively clunky.

 

Ok, stop right there. The duels from those trailers were excellent, better than what we see in the prequels. I'm something of a fanatic when it comes to swordfighting (call it idle romanticism; they taught me to operate firearms and I turned around and learned the English Longsword for the sake of completeness) and I was impressed with the duels in Deceived and Hope (Return got a little too flashy, but for the most part was excellent).

 

The fights I have seen, especially with Darth Maul, in TCW have been overly flashy and ineffective. The combatants in the trailers repeatedly attempt killing blows as a matter of routine, something which we never saw Maul deliver in his duel with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon until the very end.

 

I'm my no means saying Maul is a better duelist than Sidious, all I saying is that this duel is a display of Maul's mastery of the lightsaber. Given the fact Sidious killed 3 blademasters in a matter of seconds.

 

No. Those punks he slaughtered were not blade masters. They were Jedi masters, but by no means exceptionally skilled. As a matter of principle I will resist any attempts to retroactively attribute amazing skills and powers to them which they clearly lacked at the time of the film.

 

P.S. I'm thinking of breaking the discussion on Rule of Two into a different thread because:

1. I have a lot to say on the matter (especially that cake analogy).

2. My girlfriend expects me to call shortly and I haven't got time right now to write it all down.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Ventessel

[Beniboybling]

It worked, but was overly complicated and relied on neither of the Jedi managing to kill him during the drawn out duel. I'm saying, if that's an example of Maul's tactical thinking he's either a complete simpleton or he somehow read the script for Phantom Menace.

 

EDIT: Also, Maul would have been screwed if Kenobi and Qui-Gon had been anything more than atrocious at coordinating their attacks.

*shrug* or Maul thought he was capable enough to hold them off. Which he was. And what would the alternative have been? Simply wade in their and try and kill them? The flaws are the same just amplified.

Ok, stop right there. The duels from those trailers were excellent, better than what we see in the prequels. I'm something of a fanatic when it comes to swordfighting (call it idle romanticism; they taught me to operate firearms and I turned around and learned the English Longsword for the sake of completeness) and I was impressed with the duels in Deceived and Hope (Return got a little too flashy, but for the most part was excellent).

 

The fights I have seen, especially with Darth Maul, in TCW have been overly flashy and ineffective. The combatants in the trailers repeatedly attempt killing blows as a matter of routine, something which we never saw Maul deliver in his duel with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon until the very end.

I'm not at all saying there bad. Maybe clunky was the wrong word. In fact I think there excellent and I love watch them over and over again. However compared to Maul the fighters seem that bit more slower and less 'skilled'. Not that that's criticizing the actual trailers themselves, just the Jedi in them from an in-universe perspective. And I'm strictly speaking of the fights in the TCW here. That's a thing, we need to be careful we don't look at this from an out-of-universe perspective. Obviously in both duels the opponents wanted to kill eachother, the ineffectiveness of their moves is purely down to their choreographers - unless you can think of an in-universe reason.

No. Those punks he slaughtered were not blade masters. They were Jedi masters, but by no means exceptionally skilled. As a matter of principle I will resist any attempts to retroactively attribute amazing skills and powers to them which they clearly lacked at the time of the film.

 

P.S. I'm thinking of breaking the discussion on Rule of Two into a different thread because:

1. I have a lot to say on the matter (especially that cake analogy).

2. My girlfriend expects me to call shortly and I haven't got time right now to write it all down.

Yes. To late Vent, someone else has already done it:

 

"Having trained as a Jedi Guardian, Saesee Tiin possessed exceptional prowess with a lightsaber, wielding many over his long career."

 

"A master practitioner of Shii-Cho, Kit Fisto was considered to be one of the best swordsmen in the Jedi Order."

 

2Agen Kolar favored the use of Force Push in combat... However, he was primarily known as a master lightsaber duelist. Mace Windu himself, considered one of the greatest duelists in the Order's history, found Kolar's abilities considerable."

 

~ Wookieepedia.

 

They are all described as being master lightsaber duelists. And remember this is from an out-of-universe perspective so the 'in the eyes of the Jedi at the time' bears little weight. Except in the case of Kolar, however given that Windu is the duelist of all duelists I'd say that's pretty impressive. Either way the fact is these guys knew their way around a lightsaber pretty well, and yet Sidious cut the down like Younglings. Even if they were average Jedi Knights that still would have been impressive. You simply cannot argue they were absolute Bantha fodder with no skill whatsoever without completely disregarding the entire Jedi Order of that era.

 

And even if you do the fact remains Sidious was an absolute master of all seven lightsaber forms and yet Maul managed to land a blow on him. And even if Sidious was toying with him do you really think he'd allow Maul to score a hit?

 

P.S. If this really irks you so much why not just accept the fact that Sidious is that good. Oh and a thread on the Rule of Two would be very interesting indeed.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Beniboybling