A must-read for the community.

[CaptianFordo]

Can't say I disagree with much of, or any of it for that matter.

 

 

http://www.teamasunder.com/2012/01/30/the-internet-vs-bioware-how-trolls-set-out-to-destroy-the-old-republic/

 

 

Let's face it, the more you read the front-page threads of the General section of these forums, the points made in this article come to life.

Edited March 18, 2013 by CaptianFordo

[HolyMonarch]

This is an excellent article which manages to sum up my opinions on the massive amount of TOR hate quite well. Thanks for sharing

 

[Beranzen]

Well done,worth the read, and you just got to love how many of the trolls proved his point in their comments.

[BaronV]

Considering this article was written in January 2012 its very out of date. But it still sheds alot of light on the hate this game was receiving.

 

However now i think it has largely died down and the mindless haters have moved on to the next project (i mean it DOES get boring after awhile).

 

However the bit where anyone who calls others a biodrone or the like must automatically be a mindless hater is completely false if you look at the forums. Anytime there is even the slightest criticism there is an army of biodrones waiting to jump on you - and they are always the first ones to respond - often totally unhelpfully (i wonder if they are just sitting on general forums pressing F5 all day)

 

I think most of the "hate' or nerdrage you see on the forums these days are from genuinely disappointed people who have serious and genuine gripes about the game. People who are disappointed but care about the game complain. People who dont care simply leave and tell others not to play the game

Edited March 18, 2013 by BaronV

[LadyDrusilla]

I agree with everything bar is opinion of MAss Effect and Bioware. He is absolutely right. You can ever see it play out in the comments with idiotic things like 'if it is so good why is it failing?'. It isn't, it was one of the most popular subscriber MMOs on the market up to F2P and most anecdotal evidence points to even more people playing since F2P. But this kind of nonsense still gets trotted out all the time.

 

The internet says it is failing so it must be, therefore anyone who defends it must be an idiot or a paid shill.

[Ailie]

Pretty much true, this really isn't that bad of a game, yeah there's a lot of work to be done to make it great but it's still got a pretty decent base.

 

I don't know what it is about the internet lately but the entitlement mentality just seems to be going mental. Campaigning to have the ending of Mass Effect 3 changed because people didn't like it.... ***?! Do people honestly think they're entitled to be able to dictate how a company ends their games?! You buy the game, you play it, if you don't like it, sucks to be you.

 

I can't help but feel it's the exact same thing here despite what the developers do, all they'll get is a big pile of 'I can't have my hood down as a Jedi *unsub*' whinging despite it being explained a number of times that it's really not that simple to do.

 

You have to play the game for what it is, not what you want it to be.

[Darka]

It was once said early on in the forums existence

Bioware could make the greatest game in the world, one that combines everything you always wanted and changed the face of gaming for ever. The haters will still hate.

Bioware could write "The Old Republic" on an box that contained a stick, and Fanbois would defend it as edgey, game changing, innovative and game of the year.

 

It is cool to hate, and it is cool to hate TOR.

It does have issues, what game doesnt? But throw in something like Star Wars, bringing in millions of fans who all have millions of different ideas of what works and what doesnt, add the hype train many rode hard ignoring the sign postings, then complaining when the train rolled into the station that it wasnt the destination they thought they were going,

[BaronV]

Pretty much true, this really isn't that bad of a game, yeah there's a lot of work to be done to make it great but it's still got a pretty decent base.

 

I don't know what it is about the internet lately but the entitlement mentality just seems to be going mental. Campaigning to have the ending of Mass Effect 3 changed because people didn't like it.... ***?! Do people honestly think they're entitled to be able to dictate how a company ends their games?! You buy the game, you play it, if you don't like it, sucks to be you.

 

I can't help but feel it's the exact same thing here despite what the developers do, all they'll get is a big pile of 'I can't have my hood down as a Jedi *unsub*' whinging despite it being explained a number of times that it's really not that simple to do.

 

You have to play the game for what it is, not what you want it to be.

 

People keep trotting out this "entitlement" thing as if it is really bad. Yes things seem to be getting quite extreme every now and then but frankly the gaming industry could do with a lot more accountability to their paying customers and their fanbase.

 

As for the retake Mass Effect movement? Why the hell not? They are certainly within their right to push for a change, as much as it is the developer's right to make a bad ending if they chose to. A lot of people feel cheated by the ending. I was left confused and angry and just downright let-down.

 

Sucks to be me? Yes it does. Have I moved on? Yes I have. Am I still disappointed? Yes I am. Doesnt change the fact that the gaming industry needs a lot more accountability particularly in living up to hype and managing expectations - and ESPECIALLY in things like nonsensical DRM (Out of topic i know)

[Ailie]

People keep trotting out this "entitlement" thing as if it is really bad. Yes things seem to be getting quite extreme every now and then but frankly the gaming industry could do with a lot more accountability to their paying customers and their fanbase.

 

As for the retake Mass Effect movement? Why the hell not? They are certainly within their right to push for a change, as much as it is the developer's right to make a bad ending if they chose to. A lot of people feel cheated by the ending. I was left confused and angry and just downright let-down.

 

Sucks to be me? Yes it does. Have I moved on? Yes I have. Am I still disappointed? Yes I am. Doesnt change the fact that the gaming industry needs a lot more accountability particularly in living up to hype and managing expectations - and ESPECIALLY in things like nonsensical DRM (Out of topic i know)

 

Have you ever watched a movie, been disappointed, and propositioned the production company to remake it how you wanted?

 

Have you ever read a book, been disappointed, and propositioned the publisher to rewrite it how you wanted?

 

Why then should a game company be any different? If people don't like it, then that's too bad. And no they're not entitled to push for change. They paid to play the game, not to like it. If the game didn't work then they can ask for it to be fixed. Just not liking it is no reason to ask for it to be changed.

[tekhiun]

I think he is exaggerating quite a bit about the "hate-wagon". Of course there are trolls and of course there are people that hate the game for no good reason and no matter what bioware and EA decide to do it will never be good enough . But that's just the case for nearly any mmo.

 

Imo the reason this game as become a "joke" was due to the hype that EA and Bioware builded themselves and the extreme let down that it was in some aspects. This game as some very good strong points like the companion , space combat and legacy systems. The story and soundtrack are also quite above average.

 

But don't forget the blunders that were in game after the release. I am not talking about bugs but design flaws. On the pvp front: no bracket for end game pvp ( although it can be justified as it was launch ), the engine not being able to handle massive open pvp, ilum patch that completely invalidated valor as people were getting up to 15 levels in only a few hours. The pure RNG nature on pvp gearing.

 

Which brings up one of the greatest flaws on the pve front , pure RNG system on raids making it so it was possible to drop tokens to classes that werent even on the raid or flashpoint, on top of a daily lockout for flashpoints. The extreme high prices on respecs and high repair costs and etc.

 

Also lets not forget the pulling out of ranked warzones a few hours before the patch was going live which forced bioware to give a free month of subs and also the bubble smash patch, that remains not addressed and it will only be partially addressed nearly 6 months after it was released once the expansion comes out.

 

So after all these ( and more ) failures , it is not "madness" or "bandwagon" , and the amount of hype that the companies in charge of the game built , remember they said that they had the best pvp team in the world, and the fact that they did release an unfinished product, it is only natural that a game like this would have the amount of haters that it has and that such jokes as "coming soon tm" have emerged.

 

 

By the way the guy on the article may play the game, but he doesn't seem to know the game very well as he said things like there being a nightmare mode for False Emperor or even saying he has a level 50 smuggler, which would mean he didn't pick up is AC yet....

 

Also he claims to be impartial while also claiming that both cases were lies. Fact is we cannot know if the accusations were fraudulent or not, maybe they in fact were but also maybe someone on the TOS made a mistake and incorrectly banned the user. I am not claiming that his is case but merely that it is a possibility.

 

All in all a really biased article with a few valid points but mostly exaggerated conclusions.

[tekhiun]

Have you ever watched a movie, been disappointed, and propositioned the production company to remake it how you wanted?

 

Have you ever read a book, been disappointed, and propositioned the publisher to rewrite it how you wanted?

 

Why then should a game company be any different? If people don't like it, then that's too bad. And no they're not entitled to push for change. They paid to play the game, not to like it. If the game didn't work then they can ask for it to be fixed. Just not liking it is no reason to ask for it to be changed.

 

Difference is that books and movies are not in development even after release. Have you ever watched a movie and had to download a DLC for that movie ? This just shows how your simile is not valid. The fact is , it is not entitlement, it is merely posting out your discontent so maybe in the case that more people agree with you the company in charge of the game may do something, as games are in constant change.

[BaronV]

Have you ever watched a movie, been disappointed, and propositioned the production company to remake it how you wanted?

 

Have you ever read a book, been disappointed, and propositioned the publisher to rewrite it how you wanted?

 

Why then should a game company be any different? If people don't like it, then that's too bad. And no they're not entitled to push for change. They paid to play the game, not to like it. If the game didn't work then they can ask for it to be fixed. Just not liking it is no reason to ask for it to be changed.

 

Most people would'nt do those for books or movies because they are one way entertainment. Gaming is two way entertainment - especially a game like Mass Effect where it has been drummed in from day one that it is YOUR story and your choices matter and it is a unique narrative where you play a part in determining where it goes.

 

At any rate if I was so maddeningly unhappy at the death of Sirius Black in Harry Potter it is well within my right to start a petition to have the story changed if i wanted to.

Edited March 18, 2013 by BaronV

[Mowermanx]

However the bit where anyone who calls others a biodrone or the like must automatically be a mindless hater is completely false if you look at the forums. Anytime there is even the slightest criticism there is an army of biodrones waiting to jump on you - and they are always the first ones to respond - often totally unhelpfully (i wonder if they are just sitting on general forums pressing F5 all day)

While I understand you may perceive this in some cases, most times its idiotic posts that truly deserve a flogging. People bashing the game because its not what they want, eg, not sandbox, no stormtrooper, or that clown that always complains about the robes and not letting him be obi, I mean seriously, these people infest these forums daily, and will never understand that the game is what it is.

 

I think most of the "hate' or nerdrage you see on the forums these days are from genuinely disappointed people who have serious and genuine gripes about the game. People who are disappointed but care about the game complain. People who dont care simply leave and tell others not to play the game

If people are disappointed, there's nothing you can do to help this lot, its solely up to the individual, they need to enjoy what facets of the game they like, or learn to let go and move on, anything else just leads to more angst and pointless banter.

As for others telling people not to play a game, that has been going on since gaming started, and quite futile as well, as all the gems i've played over the years were said by people that they were garbage and don't waste your time. Come to think of it, if you actually took heed to negative feedback, you would never play another game, ever.

[Jett-Rinn]

Well I have been around longer than most, the hate for SWTOR began with the very first reveal video, then the perfect storm of SWG nutters and Mass Effect 3 revenge seekers piled on, add in the internet trolls that just want to see the world burn and there you go.

 

That's not saying that none of the criticisms were justified, it is saying that SWTOR was a marked game from the get go, it also says a lot about gamers in general and how they really are their own worst enemies. Thanks to their little uprising the only majorly funded MMO will come from Blizzard,(unless you actually think Halo Online is truly a MMO.) all MMO's will now be developed with the cash shop in mind and fewer projects will get the green light; those that do will used the most affordable (I.E. cheap to free) software available so kiss the technology moving forward goodbye . So what do we have left?

 

Kickstarter funded MMO's most of which will go over about as well as Dark and Light or Wish. So less choice, more shoestring cash shop based MMO's, that is using legacy technology while halo and call of duty rip off's rule the day. It's kind of like when MTV stopped showing music videos and started showing "The real world."

 

So remember that in five years when we have whatever farmville rip off that Titan will be and a string of Perfect World cash shop games. Also feel free to ahem

the douchenozzels that made it all happen. Edited March 18, 2013 by Jett-Rinn

[skarvika]

I agree with this. This game really doesn't deserve half the flak it gets. It's understandable that fans of previous Kotor games would be slightly disappointed; this is a completely different experience, but that does not make it a bad game at all. I do enjoy this game quite a lot as well as the original Kotor games.

I also don't understand the critics on graphics. First of all, it's an MMORPG. MMORPGs usually do have sub par graphics compared to other commercial games (e.g. Mass Effect, Crysis, etc) because they need to be accessible to a large group of people, not just a cluster of people with power pcs. That aside, I think the graphics are pretty decent for an online game.

I do however agree that the interactivity between players could be made higher. Serverwide events perhaps? So far, I haven't really felt the need to group up with anyone outside of heroics, which I rarely do anyways, but as the guy who wrote the article stated, it's a pain to find people to do heroics with.

Reading the comments on that article made me sick. Saw one along the lines of "Just because it's fun doesn't mean it's a good game."

Alright, so I guess an "innovative" game with great graphics and new game mechanics that gives me a headache would constitute as a good game then? Call me old fashioned, but if a game is fun to play, the developers have done their job and it is a good game. Just my 2 cents.

[ghoul_drool]

Difference is that books and movies are not in development even after release. Have you ever watched a movie and had to download a DLC for that movie ?

 

 

Funny you should say it like that, because I was thinking, isn't this EXACTLY what happened when George released the Special Editions? You were basically buying extra content and we ALL fell for it. The same could argubly be said for the extended editions of LOTR. It's become common practice, almost!

 

/offtopic, please continue

[tekhiun]

Funny you should say it like that, because I was thinking, isn't this EXACTLY what happened when George released the Special Editions? You were basically buying extra content and we ALL fell for it. The same could argubly be said for the extended editions of LOTR. It's become common practice, almost!

 

/offtopic, please continue

 

Is it really the same ? extended editions and director cuts don't alter the ending or change canon , did you also had to download the extra parts and install with the original movies ? I find that very unlikely.

[killmaimburn]

I read the part of the article that went on about the "haters" and game fixes. A lot of the issues TOR had this time a year last year were things that should of been fixed before it was shipped. I understand that they were not because more than likely the marketing department was in full swing and in charge by that time. A lot of those bugs, those glitches, did force many of my friends to permanently stop playing TOR. The lean cost effective management style of Bioware is largely responsible for most of the bugs in the game. However, overall it's a pretty good game. I wish the features present now were in the game at launch.

 

The doomsayers for the most part have left the game. Last year the doomsayers were going on and on about how much TOR was a flop and guild wars 2 was coming out so it didn't matter. Well, it did, havn't heard from them since. At the sametime, there are actually people here who defend Bioware with life and limb. It's just a corporate entity, it's not your fiend. You can't hurt Bioware's feelings. And if you tell a Bioware employee that their company is rubbish, that's disrespecting the company, not that person. So there are haters and fanboys. Always are, always will be.

[BrianDavion]

thing about the hype is a lotta the hype wasn't even BW's fault. I remember before the game launched hearing the doomsayers for OTHER MMOs saying how great tor would be and "if this MMO doesn't get with it TOR will destroy you" (said MMOs are still around and doing well) SW:TOR has done well for itself. fact is it lost subsscribers after the first few months but that's honestly to be expected given everyone and their dog played this game.

 

By and large I agree that TOR had issues of "the perfect storm" of problems. former SWG players where, bluntly put, destined for dissappointment as no matter how much they might scream and demand this game wasn't made for them.

(if SWG's active subscribers was eneugh to make lucasfilm happy SOE wouldn't have lost the lisence) obviously this game can't be expected to have every feature WOW did. Bioware choose to go with a smooth bugless launch rather then a launch with a ton of half finished features.

 

Now the current claim is BW is ignoreing new content in favor of the cash shop. nevermind that we've got an ingame event going on RIGHT NOW. and a expansion due to relase proably in 2 months or so.

[jgelling]

Internet tin-foil hat post is shiny.

[tekhiun]

thing about the hype is a lotta the hype wasn't even BW's fault. I remember before the game launched hearing the doomsayers for OTHER MMOs saying how great tor would be and "if this MMO doesn't get with it TOR will destroy you" (said MMOs are still around and doing well) SW:TOR has done well for itself. fact is it lost subsscribers after the first few months but that's honestly to be expected given everyone and their dog played this game.

 

By and large I agree that TOR had issues of "the perfect storm" of problems. former SWG players where, bluntly put, destined for dissappointment as no matter how much they might scream and demand this game wasn't made for them.

(if SWG's active subscribers was eneugh to make lucasfilm happy SOE wouldn't have lost the lisence) obviously this game can't be expected to have every feature WOW did. Bioware choose to go with a smooth bugless launch rather then a launch with a ton of half finished features.

 

Now the current claim is BW is ignoreing new content in favor of the cash shop. nevermind that we've got an ingame event going on RIGHT NOW. and a expansion due to relase proably in 2 months or so.

 

I dont think the claim is that they are ignoring content in favor of cash shop, the complain is that they are releasing MORE cash shop and more FREQUENTLY than any other type of content, which is a valid claim.

[Obirayy]

Not sure if anyone from the APAC community has commented, well there's only 30 people on the fleet ATM.

 

I understand your article but Farout we aren't playing an mmorpg it's just a rpg at the moment. This isn't a troll, entitlement rage or just an excuse to attack bioware. The game is nearly dead on our server and has been like this for over 6months and they still haven't done anything about it.

 

So RAGE ON my APAC buddies!

[Selethar]

This game was almost professionally trolled in the beginning. It had many issues but it was not anywhere near as bad as the trolls let on. Ironocally, I hurt myself laughing when I stopped over at the other WARS game that was going to finally kill SWTOR and saw the same type of comments within an hour of that game's launch.

[JPryde]

This game was almost professionally trolled in the beginning. It had many issues but it was not anywhere near as bad as the trolls let on. Ironocally, I hurt myself laughing when I stopped over at the other WARS game that was going to finally kill SWTOR and saw the same type of comments within an hour of that game's launch.

And you do not need to be psychic, to know that the exact same trolling will happen, once TESO launches.

[Mowermanx]

And you do not need to be psychic, to know that the exact same trolling will happen, once TESO launches.

Hehe, was just about the say the same thing.

 

Its the next episode of elders scrolls and trying to be an mmo, sound familiar anyone? I'd bet real money that it will bleed a mass of subs a month after launch, you just cant be everything to everyone, its just not possible.