Selecting need for loot

[Icestar]

Another thing to keep in mind as far as that "I helped make that drop appear, so I get to roll Need on it" argument goes, is that loot drops are determined by the players in the group.

 

Yes and I have pointed this out in many posts before. What ToR has is a half failed lootsystem where loot drops with regard to the characters that play but there is no system that makes sure that the loot ends up in the right hands. The system respects what characters that play but it does not respect who gets to roll on it.

 

Every item that drops are there because a player IN THE GROUP can use it, not because some character has a companion that can equip it aswell. Read the different patchnotes they clearly states that loot will be more suited for the members in the group.

 

But even a failed lootsystem can be made working again, I simply it has to do with the time it will take to implement it and the loss of workers they have on this game. But with thousands of player feedback regarding this they should atleast try to make it work,

 

As the DEV post from over a year ago wrote, they had plans to implement a system where the right class can roll on the right type of loot. It is not to late to bring that into the game.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Icestar

[Ratajack]

Another thing to keep in mind as far as that "I helped make that drop appear, so I get to roll Need on it" argument goes, is that loot drops are determined by the players in the group.

 

So, if a medium armor piece with Cunning drops, that only happened because there's a Smuggler or Agent in the group. You can help make loot drops appear all you like, but that specific piece only appeared because a player who can use it was in the group. The fact that you have Quinn or Tharan as a follower has no bearing on what drops.

 

You may have "helped create that piece", but it wouldn't have appeared in the first place without a player in the group who could use it on his character.

 

If rolling Need for companions became the rule, it would be especially unfair to Smuggler and Agent players, because Trooper is the only class that doesn't have a medium-armor-wearing, Cunning-based companion.

 

If the system were working as intended you would be correct. That system is NOT working as intended, and that argument holds no water at the present time.

[Seireeni]

If rolling Need for companions became the rule, it would be especially unfair to Smuggler and Agent players, because Trooper is the only class that doesn't have a medium-armor-wearing, Cunning-based companion.

 

While no companion uses strenght. (Or at least I haven't found one yet). My smugglers and agents strongly advise against companion need-rolls. Not to mention that the companion that uses medium armor and cunning is usually your healer companion - the companion people seem to use the most.

[Icestar]

If the system were working as intended you would be correct. That system is NOT working as intended, and that argument holds no water at the present time.

 

Ofcourse it holds argument, who are you to say it does not?

 

It is valuable player feedback to remind Bioware of their half failed lootsystem that needs to be corrected.

[Karai]

If I take all my companions into consideration, I basically need all of the items. So either you are going to respect, that player > companion, or we can all just roll need on everything, significantly reducing chance you are actually going to get the gear you need.

[Icestar]

If I take all my companions into consideration, I basically need all of the items. So either you are going to respect, that player > companion, or we can all just roll need on everything, significantly reducing chance you are actually going to get the gear you need.

 

Actually it is not a bad idea, if everyone in this game rolled need on everything it would create a chaos that the DEVs probably has to respond to.

 

The forums would be so flooded with angry players that they has to react.

 

Perhaps it is time to take the anarchy lootsystem to the full extent of the system it presents.

 

Social laws or not, it is not against the rules to roll need so why dont we start to do that.

 

All of us

Edited April 1, 2013 by Icestar

[Binidj]

Well I've read both sides of the argument here and I've come to the following conclusion:

 

If you roll Need on an item for your companion then I will vote to kick you from the group and add you to my ignore list.

 

If your companion needs a piece of gear that I just won, ask me about it ... the thing isn't bound to me for a while so I can transfer it; and if you ask nicely then chances are that I will.

[Bomyne]

Well I've read both sides of the argument here and I've come to the following conclusion:

 

If you roll Need on an item for your companion then I will vote to kick you from the group and add you to my ignore list.

 

If your companion needs a piece of gear that I just won, ask me about it ... the thing isn't bound to me for a while so I can transfer it; and if you ask nicely then chances are that I will.

 

 

This. Roll greed for companion items. If i win it, ask me and i might sell it to you or even give it to you

[Drimoac]

I've followed this thread with some interest. I want to relate a story of one of my first flashpoints which was before I fully understood the mechanics of the game:

 

After we defeated an enemy I quickly selected "need" without even reading what the loot was. Now as it turned out it wasn't specific to my class. One of the other players (the item was specific to his class) started complaining about I what did, but did not directly address me about it. I quickly figured out I had messed up and felt really bad about it and figured I would just give him the item when things calmed down in the FP. Again, I screwed up, it wasn't intentional, as at the time I didn't know any better. As an apology I passed on the next few rolls. I got a snippy "well thank god for that" from that same player. One of the final loot rolls in the FP was specific to my class so I decided to roll "need" for it (as I had been passing on every roll prior to that). The other player rolled "need" as well (even though the item wasn't specific to his class and he couldn't use the item). I suppose he was doing it as revenge against me for the earlier roll.

 

Now I figured out on my own (very quickly) that I had messed up. Looking back on it it would have been nice if someone had explained how badly I had violated social conventions. So all I am saying if someone selects "need" for an item they can't use in the middle of an FP (particularly if its one of the lower level FPs), they may be doing it because they are new and don't know any better. Might be nice if some of you explain what the deal is before you vote to kick them and put them on your ignore list. If it turns out said player is a jerk than by all means kick and ignore.

 

As for the main topic I agree with selecting "need" for only items the player character can use and either "greed" or passing on everything else.

[Jeweledleah]

@ Drimoac, I'm sorry that you ran into a jerk. that's what that person was, really - there is no point in punishing people like that. you figured out your mistake, its done and over with. I'd add that guy to my ignore list, personally, before i would add you, because yes, some people really are new to it and people make errors and what really matters is how they act afterwards.

 

btw (I'm guessing this is something that no one told you either, which is a shame) - you can trade items that you got from flashpoints to anyone else in your group for 2 hours after you get them. this option was added, because some people genuinely misclick the buttons, or make a mistake, or think something is an upgrade, when its not etc. not everything is done out of malice and that's why there's a system in place, to let people fix errors (doesn't work with f2p players, sadly, but since you are posting here, you are a subscriber)

[valondon]

I've followed this thread with some interest. I want to relate a story of one of my first flashpoints which was before I fully understood the mechanics of the game:

 

After we defeated an enemy I quickly selected "need" without even reading what the loot was. Now as it turned out it wasn't specific to my class. One of the other players (the item was specific to his class) started complaining about I what did, but did not directly address me about it. I quickly figured out I had messed up and felt really bad about it and figured I would just give him the item when things calmed down in the FP. Again, I screwed up, it wasn't intentional, as at the time I didn't know any better. As an apology I passed on the next few rolls. I got a snippy "well thank god for that" from that same player. One of the final loot rolls in the FP was specific to my class so I decided to roll "need" for it (as I had been passing on every roll prior to that). The other player rolled "need" as well (even though the item wasn't specific to his class and he couldn't use the item). I suppose he was doing it as revenge against me for the earlier roll.

 

Now I figured out on my own (very quickly) that I had messed up. Looking back on it it would have been nice if someone had explained how badly I had violated social conventions. So all I am saying if someone selects "need" for an item they can't use in the middle of an FP (particularly if its one of the lower level FPs), they may be doing it because they are new and don't know any better. Might be nice if some of you explain what the deal is before you vote to kick them and put them on your ignore list. If it turns out said player is a jerk than by all means kick and ignore.

 

As for the main topic I agree with selecting "need" for only items the player character can use and either "greed" or passing on everything else.

 

Two things:

 

1) You ran into a jerk. This game is flooded with them, as is real life. Best policy is to ignore and move on.

 

2) It doesn't matter how new you are. Need - Greed - Pass is a simple system to figure out based off the names for each type of roll alone. Do you need the item? Click need! Do you want to item for a companion or to sell (especially to sell, think of the literal definition of greed)? Click Greed! Do you really not care or don't want it taking up precious inventory space? Pass! I understand being new and not understanding/knowing all systems (I've recently just returned to the game and I completely forgot how to even play my Sith Assassin so I'm re-rolling and starting from scratch), but some systems are really self explanatory and there is no excuse.

[Margoth]

After we defeated an enemy I quickly selected "need" without even reading what the loot was. Now as it turned out it wasn't specific to my class. One of the other players (the item was specific to his class) started complaining about I what did, but did not directly address me about it. I quickly figured out I had messed up and felt really bad about it and figured I would just give him the item when things calmed down in the FP. Again, I screwed up, it wasn't intentional, as at the time I didn't know any better. As an apology I passed on the next few rolls. I got a snippy "well thank god for that" from that same player. One of the final loot rolls in the FP was specific to my class so I decided to roll "need" for it (as I had been passing on every roll prior to that). The other player rolled "need" as well (even though the item wasn't specific to his class and he couldn't use the item). I suppose he was doing it as revenge against me for the earlier roll.

 

I note that nowhere in there did you say:

"As soon as I realized I screwed up, I said in group chat, Does anyone need this item I didn't realize I rolled need on it, if someone needs it they are welcome to it".

 

Just passing on the rolls is insufficient. You should have acknowledged you screwed up and offered to make it right.

[Processj]

You're needing for your companion on gear they could have used for their actual character. You are the lowest form of scum on this game. Period. Edited April 1, 2013 by Processj

[Khevar]

I note that nowhere in there did you say:

"As soon as I realized I screwed up, I said in group chat, Does anyone need this item I didn't realize I rolled need on it, if someone needs it they are welcome to it".

 

Just passing on the rolls is insufficient. You should have acknowledged you screwed up and offered to make it right.

I disagree.

 

The wrong thing was the other player passively-aggressively mocking in chat.

 

That player should have spoken directly. Been straightforward.

 

I'd I been a third player in that flashpoint, seeing player A Need, then player B acting weird about it, then player A passing on loot and player B saying, "Thank God" I would be 100 times as annoyed at player B. If I saw player B then "Need" as a form of retaliation? I would have vote-kicked the jerk right there (even if it were too late), told them off for being a d**k, put them on ignore and asked my guildies to do the same.

 

All of my arguments across the 100+ pages of this thread have been about these loot rules being used to make things go smoothly for a group. Part of this is educating someone new to the game. It does not include using this rule to be a jerk and make the entire run unpleasant.

[Anzel]

I select need for everything. They should just remove the buttons altogether. I need everything.

[ronniehenlau]

First off:

Holy macaroni, this thread has reached over 100 pages and still going strong.

 

Secondly, I wonder where the OP went? He stopped giving his opinions it seems :<

[Khevar]

I select need for everything. They should just remove the buttons altogether. I need everything.

If you can work through the idea that your eating a garden bug, escargot can be quite good, actually.

[Thoronmir]

I disagree.

 

The wrong thing was the other player passively-aggressively mocking in chat.

 

That player should have spoken directly. Been straightforward.

 

I'd I been a third player in that flashpoint, seeing player A Need, then player B acting weird about it, then player A passing on loot and player B saying, "Thank God" I would be 100 times as annoyed at player B. If I saw player B then "Need" as a form of retaliation? I would have vote-kicked the jerk right there (even if it were too late), told them off for being a d**k, put them on ignore and asked my guildies to do the same.

 

All of my arguments across the 100+ pages of this thread have been about these loot rules being used to make things go smoothly for a group. Part of this is educating someone new to the game. It does not include using this rule to be a jerk and make the entire run unpleasant.

 

As I said back around page 90 ... it's all about communication. I agree that the looter (especially if new) should acknowledge the mistake to the group ... "I didn't mean to Need on that". Silent realization of the error followed by a series of Passes on loot may not communicate the intended message that he's learned from his mistake.

 

I also agree that the member who feels cheated should start off with a polite query ... "Why did you Need on that when I can use it?" In low level FPs, someone should always explain about trading the item, because I sure didn't know that in my first FP. Save the snarky comments, rants, and name-calling for later if the situation is not quickly resolved.

 

First thing I do once a party is assembled is add them all to my Friends List. When the mission is over, I either (a) move them to Ignore if I'm sure I never want to play with them again or (b) give them a grade under the Comment on the FL. I realize that may seem elitist, but it works for me. I meet too many people to keep track of the best ones.

 

The grade is based on how well they cooperate with others, whether they can follow the plan we set up ... whether they wait the 3 seconds it takes to set up a plan in the first place ..., if they are new, how well they learn, how well they communicate, whether they treat others with respect, etc.. Basically, it has less to do with game mechanics than "people mechanics". Would I want to invest my time with that Player again?

 

Characters with an "A" are the first ones I seek out for mission and FPs ... and the most likely to get me to stop what I'm doing to lend a hand. My standard is entirely subjective and private. I do not announce to anyone either that they get an "A", "B", or "C" from a total stranger playing an internet game or that they are going on my Ignore list. I don't see the point. The grade is just a means by which I can sort out all the names on my FL.

 

I'm always willing to stop for a couple minutes to explain what we're doing. In a Mission on Coruscant, I taught a new player about target-marking for CC ... and we had a smooth run in the Jedi Temple. He got an A ... he allowed me to teach him. Players who take time to teach me get A's too. How else will the new guys ever learn so we can stop making rant posts on the Forum?

[babanathie]

Came across two flashpoints yesterday where I was verbally talked down to by a gamer each time for winning loot for my companion. I dont understand the big deal. Why the sense of entitlement over another gamer? If I see an item that would be needed for my companion to equip im going to roll for it. If someone else wins it, cool, good for them as far as im concerned. If i win it f, suddenly there are problems.

First flashpoint came across an item, i passed as neither i nor my companions needed it, Second one selected need for my tank. Got it. Third one, great for my tank, selected need, got it again. Then got told I was scum and voted off.

Second one, passed on two items, third one great for my tank, selected need and was told I had no right if it was for my companion and that I cant select need. I say why not? Out of 13 loot drops in that flashpoint i chose need on 2. How is that greedy?

 

As far as im concerned, im a paid subscriber. Why should some other gamer dictate to me what I can or cannot do to benefit them? If someone wants help on a mission or flashpoint and asks me, ill have no problem helping them but if i see something my tank needs, im selecting need. Im certainly not going to cry over it if someone else wins it. This sense of entitlement over someone else is baffling. There is no rulebook in the game that states that you cant do it and everyone who rolls for it has an equal chance

 

Well, you have the "right" to need anything you want to need. They have the "right" to dislike you for it. They also have the "right" to kick you if they dislike you enough. I don't see the problem. If you don't like getting kicked... You probably shouldn't do stuff that you know will irritate other players.

[Anzel]

They really need to have a setting for this. I need everything. I shouldn't have to hit the button over and over again.

[CommanderKeeva]

First flashpoint came across an item, i passed as neither i nor my companions needed it, Second one selected need for my tank. Got it. Third one, great for my tank, selected need, got it again. Then got told I was scum and voted off. Second one, passed on two items, third one great for my tank, selected need and was told I had no right if it was for my companion and that I cant select need. I say why not? Out of 13 loot drops in that flashpoint i chose need on 2. How is that greedy?

 

Please enlighten me which flashpoint dropped 13 pieces of loot. Low level flashpoints only have like 4-5 bosses. The people in the flashpoint ALWAYS have priority over your companions. The people are there, assisting you. Your companion is not. Hence, people take priority.

 

If you can't understand the basic etiquette of flashpoints/dungeons, expect to be kicked and put on ignore each time you need for a companion unannounced. Your chances of finding a group for another flashpoint will go down each time you do this.

 

P.S.: If you really want something for your companion, ask the group. If you're okay with it, then you can need.

Edited April 1, 2013 by CommanderKeeva

[Thoronmir]

Please enlighten me which flashpoint dropped 13 pieces of loot. Low level flashpoints only have like 4-5 bosses. The people in the flashpoint ALWAYS have priority over your companions. The people are there, assisting you. Your companion is not. Hence, people take priority.

 

If you can't understand the basic etiquette of flashpoints/dungeons, expect to be kicked and put on ignore each time you need for a companion unannounced. Your chances of finding a group for another flashpoint will go down each time you do this.

 

P.S.: If you really want something for your companion, ask the group. If you're okay with it, then you can need.

 

Here's a happy story about looting in a Flashpoint ...

 

Three-manned Esseles last night on my new Sage alt with a Commando and Gunslinger (all around level 13-14). We used Qyzen as our tank. When the custom shield thingy with Aim dropped, I rolled Greed on it (really wanted it for Qyzen, but hey, PCs before Comps, right?). I expected the Commando to Need on it. He Passed. Said I should take it for Qyzen. I was happy. It was a nice run for us all.

[Khevar]

They really need to have a setting for this. I need everything. I shouldn't have to hit the button over and over again.

Have you tried talking to your boss about it first? It may not be necessary to report him to HR.

[MGriffith]

I select need for everything. They should just remove the buttons altogether. I need everything.

 

Except friends, obviously

[Icestar]

First off:

Holy macaroni, this thread has reached over 100 pages and still going strong.

 

Secondly, I wonder where the OP went? He stopped giving his opinions it seems :<

 

Yeah we are talking in circles.

 

What this thread needs is a Bioware response, the last one is from over a year ago.......

 

Perhaps they are amused with the chaos the current lootsystem creates, who knows?