Selecting need for loot

[BaronV]

I had one experience with some one who needed on an item that was an actual upgrade for himself, and I too needed because it was an upgrade for me as well. I won and he whispered me and asked if he could have it, I told him no, so he then began cursing me and such saying that he needed the item more because it was a bigger upgrade to him than it was to me, and him being friends with the others in the group, booted me because I wouldn't give him the item because he thought he deserved it more lol.

 

Im sorry to hear that... but there are always jerks everywhere. You both clicked need appropriately and you won the roll for it. He just wanted it and since he couldnt have it threw a tantrum... you did nothing wrong

[Ghostbacon]

I had one experience with some one who needed on an item that was an actual upgrade for himself, and I too needed because it was an upgrade for me as well. I won and he whispered me and asked if he could have it, I told him no, so he then began cursing me and such saying that he needed the item more because it was a bigger upgrade to him than it was to me, and him being friends with the others in the group, booted me because I wouldn't give him the item because he thought he deserved it more lol.

 

 

I only hope these people don't grow up to run corporations or , heaven forbid, a country .

[BaronV]

I only hope these people don't grow up to run corporations or , heaven forbid, a country .

 

Onlyxwishes' group members were:

 

Robert Mugabe

Kim Jong Un

Basar Al-Ashad

 

LE'GASP!! No wonder their countries are going down the tubes! They are all too busy playing SWTOR!!

[Onlyxwishes]

Onlyxwishes' group members were:

 

Robert Mugabe

Kim Jong Un

Basar Al-Ashad

 

LE'GASP!! No wonder their countries are going down the tubes! They are all too busy playing SWTOR!!

 

hahahaha, yeah they must have been children honestly, no man acts like that that I know of

[DarkTekno]

Looting - can be a sore point.. I know.. I wanted some organisation at one point but do you know what? doubt it'll ever work.. We all need better gear, so if u have certain preferences then its handy to advise the group before starting the mission, I too got shouted at for picking up equipment irrelevant to my character... but we all have 5 comps & I use most of them so good gear for them is vital too...

When I missed out on a top quality advanced robe, I just did flashpoint again later that day.. couldn't get it out of my mind.. I wanted it... so I went back & tried again... I mentioned in chat I needed a certain type... and guess what.. all other 3 members passed when a similar one came up

Couldn't believe it, so I had what I wanted & passed on everything after that.. many thanks all round at the end & was one of the best groups ive been in

Like anything, communication is key cant just all start squabbling when u all got fingers in the loot..

u can also ask leader to change options when looting, I never have but its there..

If its that important to you, then join a guild & go with mates so u have more chance of people helping you out

Most gear u win u can buy anyway, or mod current gear to that level or beyond.. so my dummy isn't on the floor for very long anymore

[Thoronmir]

I had one experience with some one who needed on an item that was an actual upgrade for himself, and I too needed because it was an upgrade for me as well. I won and he whispered me and asked if he could have it, I told him no, so he then began cursing me and such saying that he needed the item more because it was a bigger upgrade to him than it was to me, and him being friends with the others in the group, booted me because I wouldn't give him the item because he thought he deserved it more lol.

 

Well that whiner seems overly officious. Are we expected to parse our mods to determine whether only the guy who will receive a slightly better stat bump from an item is the only one entitled to Need it? That's just silly. You're better off without them ... and I hope you fed your Ignore List afterwards.

 

True Story: Running Esseles yesterday with my new Sage. Grouped with two Troopers and a Scoundrel. Prototype Consular Gloves drop from first boss. They were not an upgrade to what I had so I Greeded them. So did one of the Troopers and the Scoundrel. Other Trooper Needed them. When asked why, his response (I swear by the Force this is an exact quote): "I need money." I said, "No problem. Just remember that when I need on any Trooper gear that drops." He decided to stick to Greed after that.

 

And for the record, I would have Needed any Trooper gear ... and given it to the other Trooper who knew how the loot "rules" are supposed to work, Thankfully, it never came to that and we had a smooth rest of the run.

[Saapphy]

I don't see the problem here, really. A lot of people seem to think it's okay to just need on everything, and another lot think they can need for the companion when a player need it for his actual character. The player needs the gear to progress in OPs and flashpoints, not the companions. With that said, I always tell people they are a rude bastard for needing on stuff for the companion when a player needs it, and I still roll for companion gear using need. BUT! I have a rule of thumb to ALWAYS ask if it's okay before doing so and I always check if everyone else greeded before doing so. If someone else says they wanted it for their companion too I greed. This should everyone do to make looting a much more pleasant experience in flashpoints.

[Ratajack]

Here's the thing though... he's wanting more than a fair chance at the loot because need rolls override greed rolls. Therefore he is getting a chance at loot his character cannot use on his character and making it harder for the other members of the group to upgrade their own gear. They have every right to boot him.

 

Free-will guarantees us the right to choose to behave in any way we deem fit. However, everything we do has consequences, some good, some bad. A consequence is not necessarily a punishment it is a natural result of one's choices. If you choose to flout whatever a community or group decides is a rule whether written or unwritten then you MUST deal with the consequences whether you like it or not. That is Life... deal with it.

 

Remember, though, that each and every person that rolled greed CHOSE to roll greed. When I roll greed, I know that someone might roll need after me and trump my greed roll. In my opinion this does not mean they have more than a fair chance at the loot, since I had the same option to roll need and I CHOSE to roll greed. No one held a blaster to my head and forced me to roll greed.

 

If you want to claim those that choose to roll greed are simply following "social convention" and the person who rolls need last is "gaming the system", I'll ask why did those people who rolled greed immediately not wait before rolling to make sure that no one was "gaming the system"? They might even have been able to communicate with the rest of the group via chat to see if anyone was planning to roll need for their companion.

[Never_Hesitate]

Remember, though, that each and every person that rolled greed CHOSE to roll greed. When I roll greed, I know that someone might roll need after me and trump my greed roll. In my opinion this does not mean they have more than a fair chance at the loot, since I had the same option to roll need and I CHOSE to roll greed. No one held a blaster to my head and forced me to roll greed.

 

If you want to claim those that choose to roll greed are simply following "social convention" and the person who rolls need last is "gaming the system", I'll ask why did those people who rolled greed immediately not wait before rolling to make sure that no one was "gaming the system"? They might even have been able to communicate with the rest of the group via chat to see if anyone was planning to roll need for their companion.

 

No, they shouldn't have to ask if anyone wants to roll need for the companion, at this point the one wanting to roll for his companion has to ask or face the consequences the group wants to lay on him (maybe a warning, maybe a direct kick)

Your kind of though is as bad as the usa's law system: Guilty until proven not guilty

[Lostpenguins]

Remember, though, that each and every person that rolled greed CHOSE to roll greed. When I roll greed, I know that someone might roll need after me and trump my greed roll. In my opinion this does not mean they have more than a fair chance at the loot, since I had the same option to roll need and I CHOSE to roll greed. No one held a blaster to my head and forced me to roll greed.

 

If you want to claim those that choose to roll greed are simply following "social convention" and the person who rolls need last is "gaming the system", I'll ask why did those people who rolled greed immediately not wait before rolling to make sure that no one was "gaming the system"? They might even have been able to communicate with the rest of the group via chat to see if anyone was planning to roll need for their companion.

I have a quick question since you continue to defend this position.

 

Do you not tip waiters and waitresses at restaurants unless there's a mandatory gratuity? I mean, you don't have to tip. No one is holding a gun to your head. Amirite? Or do you tip but applaud someone who stands up for their right to not tip because they don't have to tip. And I'm not talking about bad service. I'm talking, regular, run-of-the-mill, standard levels of service for parties of less than 6. No one is forcing anyone to tip, but social convention says you should and, generally, society looks at those who don't tip as being bad mannered.

 

I still love the fact that most (and I'm talking over 90%) know exactly what the rules of etiquette are. You're trying to defend such a small minority of people who either feel entitled or are simply ignorant to the social norms. They're going to get corrected on their behavior - this is unavoidable. People, in this game, seem to generally dislike people who roll need on anything that is not directly an upgrade to their toon. The fact that you continue to argue this point is hilarious. The fact that you won't admit who you are, in game, on what server, is hilarious. The fact that you also follow social norms is hilarious.

 

You are quite a riot.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Lostpenguins

[ivanhedgehog]

Came across two flashpoints yesterday where I was verbally talked down to by a gamer each time for winning loot for my companion. I dont understand the big deal. Why the sense of entitlement over another gamer? If I see an item that would be needed for my companion to equip im going to roll for it. If someone else wins it, cool, good for them as far as im concerned. If i win it f, suddenly there are problems.

First flashpoint came across an item, i passed as neither i nor my companions needed it, Second one selected need for my tank. Got it. Third one, great for my tank, selected need, got it again. Then got told I was scum and voted off.

Second one, passed on two items, third one great for my tank, selected need and was told I had no right if it was for my companion and that I cant select need. I say why not? Out of 13 loot drops in that flashpoint i chose need on 2. How is that greedy?

 

As far as im concerned, im a paid subscriber. Why should some other gamer dictate to me what I can or cannot do to benefit them? If someone wants help on a mission or flashpoint and asks me, ill have no problem helping them but if i see something my tank needs, im selecting need. Im certainly not going to cry over it if someone else wins it. This sense of entitlement over someone else is baffling. There is no rulebook in the game that states that you cant do it and everyone who rolls for it has an equal chance

 

Is your companion in the FP helping? no? then they can greed and like it

[ivanhedgehog]

But why is their character more important? I play with my companion beside me every second im not playing a flashpoint and my companion is critical in my winning each mission. So i dont understand why their gaming is more important than mine. I dont understand this sense of entitlement that someone else has over another gamer. If you pay for a game it should not be dictated on someone elses terms how you play should it? As long as you arent cheating.

 

I play with my guildies all the time I am not teamed with you. why cant I need for one of them?

[Icestar]

I was in a group the other day on one of my Jedi. We somehow had 3 Troopers in the group.

 

One of the Troopers rolled Need on an item with Cunning on it.

 

When questioned, he said it was for one of his companions.

 

We chuckled and vote-kicked him instantly. He cried of course. He's now on my ignore list, not only for rolling Need when he didn't need stuff, but also for either being a flat out liar or best case so uninformed about how Trooper companions work.

 

Yet another proof that my theory that players that roll need for their companion actually has no clue if it is, they simply assume it is a upgrade.

 

If a new trooper player rolls need when they play on Taris or right after I can understand, since it is special for the trooper class to heal better with aim. The only thing to do is tell the player and then ask if he/she can hand over the item.

 

I have seen many times when a new player gets angry because a sniper takes cunning items, they simply assume that snipers need aim.

 

Sometimes this game is not logical at all and it is up to us, the more experienced players to help rather then get angry and place players on ignore

Edited March 26, 2013 by Icestar

[JamieKirby]

Im certainly not going to cry over it if someone else wins it.

 

Then don't cry about it if they decide to boot you from the group for needing items they could have used on their actual character. It goes both ways.

 

I hope you know that, the way bioware foolishly made the companion system is, the worse gear the companion has, the worse your experience will become.

 

I personally avoid pre-50 flashpoints since i got fed up with the whole 'SPACE BAR NAW!' crap, but i know for sure that if i decided to do a flashpoint, i would need on an item that would help my companion or me, especially if no one else needs on it.

 

Whenever i play mmos and do group content, i always wait until last to roll on something, because i learnt very quickly that if someone doesn't win a roll, they have loads and loads of hissy fits, i mean really pathetic crying about it, so i just wait until last to roll on stuff, that way i know if i should pass, greed or need, otherwise people just complain.

 

Overall, bioware made it so that the companion's gear affects our main characters' performance, so if its a healer, they heal better and so on, but i guess bioware could make all gear only work on player characters and not companions and then they can make companions gear automatically scale to their level.

 

Then no one can have childish hissy fits. :-)

[DarthTHC]

Yet another proof that my theory that players that roll need for their companion actually has no clue if it is, they simply assume it is a upgrade.

 

If a new trooper player rolls need when they play on Taris or right after I can understand, since it is special for the trooper class to heal better with aim. The only thing to do is tell the player and then ask if he/she can hand over the item.

 

I have seen many times when a new player gets angry because a sniper takes cunning items, they simply assume that snipers need aim.

 

Sometimes this game is not logical at all and it is up to us, the more experienced players to help rather then get angry and place players on ignore

 

If that Trooper had rolled Greed on the Cunning item, we could have had that conversation. Sadly, he chose to roll Need on something he didn't, which is one of the quicker ways to get on my ignore list (along with queueing as what you are not and starting fights if you're not the tank).

 

I'm quite patient and willing to teach people who are polite and willing to learn. I have absolutely no patience for those who behave badly.

[DarthTHC]

I hope you know that, the way bioware foolishly made the companion system is, the worse gear the companion has, the worse your experience will become.

 

---snipping out your clear hue and cry for rolling need for your own greediness so I can focus on that first sentence

 

That sentence is patently BS. Any companion wearing green gear within 3-4 levels of him is perfectly effective. I've done it more times than I can count.

 

Is it nice to have them in level-appropriate blues or purples or oranges? Sure. But they absolutely can and do perform very well in level-appropriate green gear. Which, BTW, you can almost always find on GTN for reasonable prices.

[Khevar]

...

 

Do you not tip waiters and waitresses at restaurants unless there's a mandatory gratuity? I mean, you don't have to tip. No one is holding a gun to your head. Amirite? Or do you tip but applaud someone who stands up for their right to not tip because they don't have to tip. And I'm not talking about bad service. I'm talking, regular, run-of-the-mill, standard levels of service for parties of less than 6. No one is forcing anyone to tip, but social convention says you should and, generally, society looks at those who don't tip as being bad mannered.

 

...

Heh. Mr. Pink would definitely Need for companions.

 

The interesting thing, is that Steve Buscemi's character makes a reasoned and logical argument against tipping the waitress, and the others all argue against it. I wouldn't be but a bit surprised that the dialog in the film was something Tarantino actually heard.

 

That scene is not dissimilar to this thread. One person is trying to make logical arguments against the practice of Need isn't for companions, defending the OP, saying that it is a social convention, yada yada. Most everyone else is arguing against him. One or two people are like Mr Orange: "give me my dollar back"

 

This subject has similarities to the Prisoner's Dilemma. If both prisoners cooperate, everyone wins. The comparison is that if everyone were to follow the "only Need for main gear uprades" than everyone would gear their main toon faster.

 

The reason why this is a social convention, is that it is logical. It actually helps people gear up their main toons.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Khevar

[Jediqc]

I didn't read the full thread cause it is waaaayy too long so someone might have said that already, but in my opinion (not that its worth anything) it is OK to need for companion if nobody else needed for their character.

 

Not everyone thinks like that obviously despite the item is sometimes worth only a few hundred credits in a world where ppl have millions.

 

I usually comply to the social rules but still try to buy the item from the roll winner if I really want it. Also, since we are grouped with people from the same server I try to not ruin my reputation (again, for what its worth) over these ffew hundred credits.

[Lostpenguins]

Heh. Mr. Pink would definitely Need for companions.

 

The interesting thing, is that Steve Buscemi's character makes a reasoned and logical argument against tipping the waitress, and the others all argue against it. I wouldn't be but a bit surprised that the dialog in the film was something Tarantino actually heard.

 

That scene is not dissimilar to this thread. One person is trying to make logical arguments against the practice of Need isn't for companions, defending the OP, saying that it is a social convention, yada yada. Most everyone else is arguing against him. One or two people are like Mr Orange: "give me my dollar back"

 

This subject has similarities to the Prisoner's Dilemma. If both prisoners cooperate, everyone wins. The comparison is that if everyone were to follow the "only Need for main gear uprades" than everyone would gear their main toon faster.

 

The reason why this is a social convention, is that it is logical. It actually helps people gear up their main toons.

There's 2 different arguments going on:

1) Whether people should follow social conventions or not.

2) Is this social convention right?

 

#2 is debatable. To me, it reminds me of Nash's theory that instead of "every man for himself", that through cooperation better results are achieved. Ratajack and a few others argue about the necessity of the companion, etc. etc. In the end, it's still argumentative and trying to convince them has been futile.

 

#1 is debatable. Ratajack tries to spin it with punishment and group-kicking as the bad guys, yet going against the grain and breaking social conventions is the start of the offense for which he tries to place no blame on.

 

I could care less about issue #2 so long as the people don't violate #1.

[Syas]

As far as im concerned, im a paid subscriber. Why should some other gamer dictate to me what I can or cannot do to benefit them? If someone wants help on a mission or flashpoint and asks me, ill have no problem helping them but if i see something my tank needs, im selecting need. Im certainly not going to cry over it if someone else wins it. This sense of entitlement over someone else is baffling. There is no rulebook in the game that states that you cant do it and everyone who rolls for it has an equal chance

Your subscription doesn't give you priority other group members. The accepted standard is Need for your character, Greed for your companions. You can choose to ignore that, such is your right, but you will not have pleasurable group experiences.

[odawgg]

Yes, it's a community accepted standard to need for self, greed for pet. If you choose to need for pet, some people will get upset and then if they decide to boot you, you will have to just accept those consequences. Some people won't care and you can roll through the flashpoint getting anything you want. If you don't want to conform to the society, be ready for the consequences, just like life.

 

If you want to avoid this predicament, ask the team you're running with. You at the very least have a better chance of not making people mad if you ask first.

Edited March 26, 2013 by odawgg

[Darevsool]

Your subscription doesn't give you priority other group members. The accepted standard is Need for your character, Greed for your companions. You can choose to ignore that, such is your right, but you will not have pleasurable group experiences.

 

My problem with the Need/Greed system is that it isn't explained, by the game, anywhere. it's a "rule" created by players from other MMO's before this one even existed.

 

There are some people playing this game as their first MMO, or their first MMO with the Need/Greed loot system.

 

NOT EVERYONE knows these "rules." If I hadn't joined a guild with previous NEED/GREED experience, I'd be needing on anything that my toon/companion could use, and I'd be expecting EVERYONE ELSE in the group to do the same.

 

Personally, I want a "random" loot option. That is the system I'm used to. With moddable armor and legacy armor to mail mods between toons, most people can use pretty much everything that drops. However, I know I'm in the minority with THAT particular thought.

 

(if this was pointed out earlier in the previous 84 pages...I didn't read over each page...)

[Syas]

My problem with the Need/Greed system is that it isn't explained, by the game, anywhere. it's a "rule" created by players from other MMO's before this one even existed.

 

There are some people playing this game as their first MMO, or their first MMO with the Need/Greed loot system.

 

NOT EVERYONE knows these "rules." If I hadn't joined a guild with previous NEED/GREED experience, I'd be needing on anything that my toon/companion could use, and I'd be expecting EVERYONE ELSE in the group to do the same.

 

Personally, I want a "random" loot option. That is the system I'm used to. With moddable armor and legacy armor to mail mods between toons, most people can use pretty much everything that drops. However, I know I'm in the minority with THAT particular thought.

 

(if this was pointed out earlier in the previous 84 pages...I didn't read over each page...)

 

I am not saying that you should be shunned for not knowing them. The community is responsible for deciding on the rules they are going to adhere to. By all means, elicit change if you want it, but that doesn't change the current situation.

[Theeko]

I think Swtor should really change the loot system to how WoW does it, where only that class/sub tree can roll need on that one item but if they already have that specific item you cannot need on it anymore just greed.

[Khevar]

...

 

NOT EVERYONE knows these "rules." If I hadn't joined a guild with previous NEED/GREED experience, I'd be needing on anything that my toon/companion could use, and I'd be expecting EVERYONE ELSE in the group to do the same.

 

...

Just as a comment on this, I didn't know either when I first started. Someone explained it to me, I thought about it, it made sense, and I operated that way from that point forward.

 

Edit: It's just so LOGICAL to me. If I don't need on loot that I can't use on my Main, and someone else can, then the same thing will happen in reverse. Although I had never heard this rule before, all it took one one explanation and I was satisfied that it wasn't some weird arbitrary rule handed down from some outdated moral code. It just makes sense.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Khevar