tronot Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) Something I have always wondered and one reason why I never need for companions. I have no idea what my companions are wearing. Do you people memorize it? I didn't think so. So, how, in good conscience, can you need for your companion when you don't even KNOW if it's an upgrade? You're basically guessing unless you have their gear and stats written down. Edited March 25, 2013 by tronot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) Something I have always wondered and one reason why I never need for companions. I have no idea what my companions are wearing. Do you people memorize it? I didn't think so. So, how, in good conscience, can you need for your companion when you don't even KNOW if it's an upgrade? You're basically guessing unless you have their gear and stats written down. I cannot speak for others, but I usually have at least a general idea of what would be an upgrade for my companion. I usually outfit my companions in a full set of orange custom gear. I usually upgrade my character's mods about every 4-6 levels and will also outfit my most used companion at that same time, if possible. I then pass down the mods that get replaced in my character's gear and my companion's gear to other companions if I have any that use the same stats. So if it would be an upgrade for my character if the stats were correct, it would almost certainly be an upgrade for my companion who uses that primary stat. I won't say that it will always be an upgrade for my companion, but I have never been in a situation where it wouldn't be an upgrade for my companion if it would be an upgrade for my character with the correct primary stat. Edited March 25, 2013 by Ratajack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonrobbie Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 say whatever you like point is people will soon get tired of your ******** and you'll be on many ignore lists, so as many others have said enjoy solo play well judging from my experience of putting this so called unwritten rule into practice I can see theres absolutely no truth to it at all! This jedi not only took a loot item for his healer companion. but the other 2 players congratulated him for it. Clearly this unwritten rule this either NOT known to all, or the overwhelming majority resides mainly on the forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonrobbie Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 lol, I know this is going to be a troll post, but I can't help to see this guy as one of those who would be raiding your store or home in the event of an apocalypse! You just don't get it man. And I can see you as one of those guys saying that there is no such thing as equal rights or everyone deserving a chance during an apocalypse , instead saying "That food is mine. not yours" It YOU who does not get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonrobbie Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Do not need for companions. Plain as that. If i see other players doing it, then why cant i? Fact is if i have to accept that others will do it, then im going to do it too, its that simple Until this loot system of needing is only for characters and not their companions is put in place by the developers I say its an equal opportunity for all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonrobbie Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) Or perhaps the other player was simply new, and a mere "Just so you know, Need is for main characters not companions" may have sufficed. But no, that would instantly turn you into a withering mess of an immature child hell bent on getting what you want, eh? You claim others are being immature and arrogant. Have you looked in a mirror recently? Or maybe you are assuming he was? I dont assume that an unwritten rule is in place, nor do i assume the knowledge that other players have regarding games. And judging by the comments of those on this thread that such players get kicked and vengeance must be hadi dont believe for a second that any such decorum would be shown. Nor do i assume to tell others what they cant or cant do Unlike YOU i dont relegate myself to a higher superior attitude where other people are beholden to me Yes I have looked in the mirror recently and I see someone who believes in equal opportunity for all I take it you look in the mirror and see "Mine, not yours" Get over this im entitled and you are not attitude Edited March 25, 2013 by Jonrobbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonrobbie Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) His post on the forums was angry, nasty, insulting and made just as many assumptions about others as he claimed others made about him. I have no objection to what he did in-game. . I have said that those who vote kicked me and reduced themselves to name calling was childish and immature Hardly angry, nasty and immature is it? especially considering i was willing to accept said vote kicking if that was what meant exercising my rights Edited March 25, 2013 by Jonrobbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonrobbie Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 well shame on you for not calling him out on it then. Your choice not to throw a "hissy fit" but really isnt that because you would much rather need for comps yourself? You can keep doing what you want. But if you are on my server and I come across you, I'll be sure to put you on /ignore and out you on fleet general as a ninja. And I bet that many of the others you group will do the same. so... happy solo playing! So you would vilify me because you have an opinion that I do not agree with? Nice, hope treating other people with such indignity and callous retaliation works out for you in life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forumname Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Or maybe you are assuming he was? I dont assume that an unwritten rule is in place, nor do i assume the knowledge that other players have regarding games. And judging by the comments of those on this thread that such players get kicked and vengeance must be hadi dont believe for a second that any such decorum would be shown. Nor do i assume to tell others what they cant or cant do Unlike YOU i dont relegate myself to a higher superior attitude where other people are beholden to me Yes I have looked in the mirror recently and I see someone who believes in equal opportunity for all I take it you look in the mirror and see "Mine, not yours" Get over this im entitled and you are not attitude I've missed most of the middle part of the debate, so what I have to say may have already been said. I had not started out knowing the the Need/Greed is decided here so I am quite sympathetic to those who get flamed for doing so. I really do think that people should start by calmly explaining their expectations of loot rules the first time there's a disagreement and try to get everyone to agree instead of rushing to flame and kick the person like how they treated you. However, with that said. Need for Self, Greed for companions has reached the status of a "convention" in this game and most of your group members have more or less come to accept this by default. If you plan to depart from this, you have to make it known and get their consent to use your method of rolling for loot. They cannot mind-read what you plan to do and when surprised, people tend to get angry, which is what happened. Finally, I still think the current social convention for loot is better. It's more straight-forward, and still imo fairer for whoever's in the flashpoint. And you can still ask if you still like to roll need for a companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) Finally, I still think the current social convention for loot is better. It's more straight-forward, and still imo fairer for whoever's in the flashpoint. And you can still ask if you still like to roll need for a companion. This is what it is all about, if players communicate and ask if they are allowed to roll no socal laws can be broken. If the player accepts the answer. It is those that does not accept the social laws that ends up in drama and on ignorelists. Some simply refuse to accept what the community thinks is common groundrules, it is up to them but they will run into alot more problems. Edited March 26, 2013 by Icestar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_Peres Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 People don't run flashpoints to gear up your companions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 People don't run flashpoints to gear up your companions. Or run them alone with your companion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paokzu Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Im certainly not going to cry over it if someone else wins it. Then don't cry about it if they decide to boot you from the group for needing items they could have used on their actual character. It goes both ways. agreed Made it through this thread and this is my favorite response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constiane Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) since we are on this subject of loot etiquete i will share my experience with world bosses on ilum during the gree event. I am playin on my bh and finally see a aim ear piece or implant drop, i roll need and lose the item so i scroll up to see what other bh won it to congratulate them on it. i see so and so won implant and then find out the a sorc won the item. So he clearly rolled need on black hole gear. So i whisper him and said dude wth and he said he rolled need for RE or reverse engineering. So i lost out on good raiding gear for it to be broken down. Stories like this happen more times than not in pugs lately and its bs. You may get in a good raid group and everyone plays nicely but there is always that one person that feels they need to be a dick. So unfortunately these types of players do exist and it sucks. Kicking them is about the only course of action or hoping maybe they will trade it off before it bounds which is doubtful. Edited March 26, 2013 by constiane mistype in word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingster Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 The OP is a moron IMHO...it does my head in when people roll need for companion and win over someone who wants it for a personal upgrade. It doesn't take much intelligence to realise that at some point you will have enough companions to always roll need on absolutely everything. Running an OP and roll need all the time....prepare to be forced to play by yourself as your type are very much unwanted in my groups. I really detest such selfish attitudes and I feel it is indicative of modern society. Seriously please stop playing this game and go back to shouting "dirge" in barrens chat along with your like minded associates. /byebye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Okay well I applied what seemingly the majority of this community seems to be is the general consensus in regards to need or greed I only needed once for my smuggler while passing on everything else in a flashpoint yesterday Ended up losing to a jedi who needed for his companion which he called doc, i assume it was his healer? This so called general consensus is garbage as far as my experiences are concerned I'll stick to expressing my freedom to choose rather than sticking to a so called unwritten rule that clearly from experience is not being put into practise And best of all I didnt throw a hissy fit and demand anyone get kicked when it didnt go my way Some of us dont have to throw all our toys in one cot and demand any revenge or retaliation in response for not getting what we believe is ours to demand so basically, you have met someone who's just like you. which obviously means that if some people break the laws, it means the laws don't exist right? and just becasue someone else broke the law, it means you should as well? question. did the jedi ask if he could need for his companion before actually hitting need? because the asking part is what makes the difference. and if he asked - did you say, I'm sorry, but its an upgrade for my character? because you know... communication making a difference and all. in my personal experience vast majority of the people, especially at latter levels (early on, some people may still be new and not familiar with social conventions, which is when you let them know.. kinda like in real life) DO in fact follow the unwritten rule of "need for self, greed or ask if may need for companion" there are always those, who like you decide to be special snowflakes and flaunt the unwritten rules. sooner or later, they end up with a lot less people to play with. kinda similar to when in real life, behaving like a jerk gets you invited to fewer and fewer social gatherings, until you might not get any invites at all, all the while people go on to have fun without you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimex Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) Jonrobbie, what server do you play on? What are your characters names? Seeing as you feel so strongly about your position on this, why not back it up by letting us know who you are in game? That way, others who dislike how you behave in groups can be spared the trouble and block you. Of course, those who agree with you can seek you out to play in groups. Edited March 26, 2013 by chimex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KariTalRathe Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 since we are on this subject of loot etiquete i will share my experience with world bosses on ilum during the gree event. I am playin on my bh and finally see a aim ear piece or implant drop, i roll need and lose the item so i scroll up to see what other bh won it to congratulate them on it. i see so and so won implant and then find out the a sorc won the item. So he clearly rolled need on black hole gear. So i whisper him and said dude wth and he said he rolled need for RE or reverse engineering. So i lost out on good raiding gear for it to be broken down. Stories like this happen more times than not in pugs lately and its bs. You may get in a good raid group and everyone plays nicely but there is always that one person that feels they need to be a dick. So unfortunately these types of players do exist and it sucks. Kicking them is about the only course of action or hoping maybe they will trade it off before it bounds which is doubtful. IMO, reverse engineering is worthy of a need roll. If the guy successfully REs the item, many players will benefit from that one piece. If you had won the roll, only you will have benefitted from it. @OP, I wouldn't worry too much about the established convention. I see far more people kicked from PUGs for not skipping conversations and/or content than being kicked for daring to need on companion/vendor gear without asking permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myralla Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Oh, I understand the difference. As I said, I choose to roll greed unless it is an upgrade for my character. That does not stop me from seeing the other side of this debate, that of the person who wants that upgrade for his companion. He did contribute and has a valid point when he says he wants a fair chance at the loot. It is possible to respect both sides of this debate, even if my personal choices lean toward one side. I might not choose to roll need for my companion, but I am not going to tell you that you cannot roll need for your companion. In fact, as I said, if you choose to roll need for your companion and win that item over my character, for whom it would also have been an upgrade, I will congratulate you on your win. Here's the thing though... he's wanting more than a fair chance at the loot because need rolls override greed rolls. Therefore he is getting a chance at loot his character cannot use on his character and making it harder for the other members of the group to upgrade their own gear. They have every right to boot him. Free-will guarantees us the right to choose to behave in any way we deem fit. However, everything we do has consequences, some good, some bad. A consequence is not necessarily a punishment it is a natural result of one's choices. If you choose to flout whatever a community or group decides is a rule whether written or unwritten then you MUST deal with the consequences whether you like it or not. That is Life... deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KariTalRathe Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Here's the thing though... he's wanting more than a fair chance at the loot because need rolls override greed rolls. That would only be true if the 'need' option was not available to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostbacon Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 New addendum to the Jedi Code : There is no Greed, there is only Need . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myralla Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 That would only be true if the 'need' option was not available to all. The need option is a way to communicate to other members of the group that it is an upgrade for your character... using it for a companion against what has become community 'norm' creates an imbalance in the looting system for the group. Therefor they have the right to correct that imbalance by booting the person who chooses not to abide by the groups values. He chooses his action and they choose theirs through voting him out... consequences. Equal opportunity does NOT necessarily mean equal results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) I was in a group the other day on one of my Jedi. We somehow had 3 Troopers in the group. One of the Troopers rolled Need on an item with Cunning on it. When questioned, he said it was for one of his companions. We chuckled and vote-kicked him instantly. He cried of course. He's now on my ignore list, not only for rolling Need when he didn't need stuff, but also for either being a flat out liar or best case so uninformed about how Trooper companions work. I can't believe this thread is still going. Regardless how little the "needy" minority likes it, the convention established by the community is that need means you're going to equip it on the character you are playing at that moment, not companions, not sell it on the GTN, not RE it, not anything else. No amount of wailing or gnashing of teeth is going to change that convention. Edited March 26, 2013 by DarthTHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jovianus Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 If i see other players doing it, then why cant i? Fact is if i have to accept that others will do it, then im going to do it too, its that simple Until this loot system of needing is only for characters and not their companions is put in place by the developers I say its an equal opportunity for all You know what else is equal opportunity for all? The vote-kick and ignore system. So yes, you are quite free to roll need on everything and anything for any reason, and your group members are just as free to kick you from the group and put you on ignore to insure that you never benefit from their help with content again. FREEDOM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onlyxwishes Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) I had one experience with some one who needed on an item that was an actual upgrade for himself, and I too needed because it was an upgrade for me as well. I won and he whispered me and asked if he could have it, I told him no, so he then began cursing me and such saying that he needed the item more because it was a bigger upgrade to him than it was to me, and him being friends with the others in the group, booted me because I wouldn't give him the item because he thought he deserved it more lol. Edited March 26, 2013 by Onlyxwishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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