[PvP] Expert Advice Needed

[-Dark-]

Hello BC!

 

Some of you know me many of you don't! Anyways, I could really use some PvP advice to improve my 1v1 fights and overall just being a better use to the team (since I'm practically useless as it stands). I will have to say that the only option I currently am unable to do is min/max my gear.

 

Any thoughts, my PvP game is pretty s****y

 

Current build: http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/vanguard/24/?build=02300030000000000000000000000203120

[JenseitsvonBose]

Switch to assault. I had a friend (sadly, no longer playing) who swore by tactics for PVE. When he got into PVP, he switched over to assault, for a variety of reasons, and said he felt it was the better PVP spec... and he was very, very solid with tactics.

[MelliMelon]

We currently have Kirax go tactics for at least half of our ranked matches. It is a very viable spec. I should ask him to check out this thread.

[J_Fred]

tactics isnt really a reliable 1v1 spec, at least not as much compared to pyro/assualt. After using it myself I find it to be nice for a little extra survivability and good with utility. 1v1 is usually about who can burst you down fast enough and assault/pyro spec wins that role hands down. Just because you can't 1v1 everyone in tactics doesn't mean your a bad player or that you suck at the spec.

 

I haven't seen many changes to tactics in 2.0, but the mere fact that they are giving hold the line to everyone now will give pyro an even further advantage over tactics imo. Its a similar situation with juggs/guardians. I am an original vengeance/vigilance user, but you can't compete with that spec with everyone running smash.

[-Dark-]

Well... about using Assault Spec

 

I guess I should mention I'm terrible at using it. Truth be told, I can't crit for higher than 4.4k which is pretty pathetic. Furthermore, in overall dps, I've out dps'd my Assault damage using Tactics. It also doesn't help that I use Combat Tech as oppose to Eliminator Gear.

 

I've searched through thread after thread, and the only true conclusion I really see anymore just seems to be, "Sorry your spec is just terrible, quit PvP and die, or switch to assault." Is that really what I'm going to have to do? I'm actually being serious, is assault the only viable way to go, or is there some use in playing Tactics anymore? And if I can't play Assault well, should I just re-roll and junk Siricius (since it's obvious as well the my 46 Merc is going to be practically useless in 2.0 as well)

 

And no, I don't want to here that "Well it has utility!" because based on what I can tell from my PvP experience, utility doesn't mean $#!T if the target is still alive.

[Raazmir]

What are your stats sitting at?

 

crit/surge/bonus damage etc?

[wallywaffles]

Tactics is really good for objective based play imo. Like Melyn said I am in Tactics most of the time in Ranked PvP. However, it is not a "dueling" spec. Tactics requires you to rely on your team a bit more though (to finish people off when they are low). In my view Tactics is for charging into groups of enemies and doing massive AoE damage while staying alive. Assault can kill someone faster 1v1 but if you really want to duel people you should probably roll a Shadow or something. Oh and you shouldn't count out shield spec, you can actually 1v1 a lot of people it just takes longer.

 

Here's what I see as the pros of each spec:

 

Tactics

- Excellent AoE damage

- Good mobility

- Great survivability

 

Assault

-Very high single target burst

-Slightly more sustained dps on a single target

-You get to set people on fire!

 

Shield Spec

-You're pretty darn hard to kill (not a Guardian with the cooldowns, but still tough)

-Extra CC through your pull, leap, and stealth scan

-Surprising amount of burst damage for a tank

 

TL;DR you should play Tactics focusing on the objectives, not on dueling people. It's a good spec but not many people play it because it relies on having backup.

 

Also the link to your spec seems to be broken, here's what I usually run. Occasionally I swap out a few points for the extra cc

[LaVall]

Kylen uses a hybrid tactics/shield spec that puts out considerable damage and considerable protection, while maintaining a high survivability. He's also very helpful and I'm sure would be happy to give you some pointers if you asked.

[EFSoupy]

Disclaimer: I'm really not much of a PvP Expert, but this is the internet, so there isn't much you can do to stop me.

 

And no, I don't want to here that "Well it has utility!" because based on what I can tell from my PvP experience, utility doesn't mean $#!T if the target is still alive.

 

A few words regarding utility. Flux, Flux and Flux. The reason he's one of the best PvP tanks on the server isn't because he doesn't die but his utility (nobody cares if you're alive if you're not doing anything), because he runs objectives and there's not much most people can do about it. A lot of people look at numbers because they're the easy metric in PvP, but that isn't necessarily what wins the matches. Keeping people tied up lets team mates get caps and wins, killing is an effective means of cc, but not the only one.

 

Also, regarding shields spec in PvP, the utility is decent, I always enjoy the survivability but I find the dps is fairly steady and not terribly high (if I take someone down quickly I hang my head in pity for them, because I never kill anyone quickly), but my opinion is, the tank/healer combo makes them worthwhile. In 2.0 with the reworking of shieldable damage, I'm really hopeful tanks in general will get some better survivability in PvP. Plus a lot of healers like a good tank.

 

All of that being said, I wouldn't scrap vanguard yet. On your "come kill me day" I won what, 1 out of 10? If you're so bad you need to quit, I shudder to think how bad that makes me. Also, things may change in a month. Worst case scenario, let him sit until 2.0 and see how things have changed and if tactics improves or assault is magically better or just roll as a tank. It's always nice to have a pocket tank.

[-Dark-]

Kylen uses a hybrid tactics/shield spec that puts out considerable damage and considerable protection, while maintaining a high survivability. He's also very helpful and I'm sure would be happy to give you some pointers if you asked.

 

I've actually used his spec, which I will admit is pretty darn good, unfortunately it also literally requires you to min/max the hell out of your gear, which I just don't have the time to do. I've literally tried all sorts of specs 1/22/18, 0/23/18, 10/31/0, and various other specs and I'm still pretty darn useless. Even if I go for objectives (which I practically stopped doing because its almost the equivalent of me shooting spitballs at a guy carrying a nuke), 9/10 I die, can't put down a healer, can't distract, can't hold a node effectively, can't take a node effectively, and generally seem to do more harm than I help. Even in matches like Huttball, where I literally sit at center trying to hold mid, I can't even prevent people from getting the ball.

 

Worse as stated by Shep, when 2.0 hits, the mobility that this class has (and its one great factor that no one is ever counting on) goes to everyone just leaving me with Pulse Cannon, which people seem to be able to lag out of >.< .

 

Crit is roughly about 27%

I've got enough surge to bring me to about 76% Crit multiplier

Power should be sitting around 865-871

 

As for numbers not winning matches, well I only need look at the PvP Records thread (mind you all the high numbers I've seen in the thread are in winning matches) to remind me where that little debate goes.

 

Lastly, as for 2.0, as of yesterday, Tactics/AP got a severe damage reduction, so now it's looking even worse.

Edited March 15, 2013 by -Dark-

[CadeStive]

Ask Jordo, Kyros, Vixeren. Or even any of the Imp pyrotech players. Edited March 16, 2013 by CadeStive

[PoliteAssasin]

Your surge could be higher. Where is your primary/expertise sitting at? And which augments are you using? I know you mentioned you don't have time to min max, if you want to do as much damage as you can you will need to. Vanilla war hero or EWH is crap. And as Shep said tactics is a lot like vengeance, a good spec but with others like rage/pyro running around you won't be competing with them on, in terms if numbers. Vengeance is still useful, just not for dps. More for node guarding/assaulting and 1v1s. Rage is all about pumping out massive AOE damage. Not every spec will be equal to one another. They all have their unique place in warzones. You should talk to shep about the class, he has a lot he can help you with and is currently the hardest hitting VG I've come thus far. Gear setup can make or break a spec. Hit him up in game, or on the forums. I'm sure he'd be happy to help. Edited March 15, 2013 by PoliteAssasin

[-Dark-]

Your surge could be higher. Where is your primary/expertise sitting at? And which augments are you using? I know you mentioned you don't have time to min max, if you want to do as much damage as you can you will need to. Vanilla war hero or EWH is crap. And as Shep said tactics is a lot like vengeance, a good spec but with others like rage/pyro running around you won't be competing with them on, in terms if numbers. Vengeance is still useful, just not for dps. More for node guarding/assaulting and 1v1s. Rage is all about pumping out massive AOE damage. Not every spec will be equal to one another. They all have their unique place in warzones. You should talk to shep about the class, he has a lot he can help you with and is currently the hardest hitting VG I've come thus far. Gear setup can make or break a spec. Hit him up in game, or on the forums. I'm sure he'd be happy to help.

 

Augment wise I'm using 3/4 Aim Augments 18 aim/12 end (I actually need the crit and with the perk for 9% AIM added from my skill tree it literally makes maybe 1-2 points of power that I'm sacrificing for additional crit). The other 1/4 is Surge 18 surge/11 end.

 

Furthermore, in order for me to effectively use Assault, it basically requires me to dump every last piece of gear I have (minus belt/bracers). I literally don't have the time to grind out another set, and with 2.0 nearing it really isn't worth it. In terms of utilizing my spec better, again I've literally tried every last variation of Tactics. I can't actually do much for a team as Tactics, I hit way too low as Assault, and Shield Spec is practically useless given the way shielding works (which is why I quit tanking in the first place).

 

Based on the way this is looking, I'm practically screwed even after 2.0. At this rate, I'm wondering should I actually keep my vanguard or just delete him. I mean for crying out loud, I can out dps my tactics vanguard with my lvl 46 arsenal merc in warzones. I mean seriously, I've hit a max dps of 800k with my merc in Novare Coast. I played an equally long match with my Vanguard and pulled 586k.

[PoliteAssasin]

You can't really compare that. 50s is a whole new game from the lowbies. In lowbies not everyone can interrupt your merc, not everyone is mod ripped, not everyone has all of their abilities. You can't compare performance of a lowbie to that of a 50. That being said your dps isn't really going to change much until you min max your gear. You have the skill, you just don't have the gear to accompany it and vanguard is one of the ACs that requires proper gear in order to fully realize its potential. There are plenty who do it wrong, or as yourself don't have the time to mod rip. In all honesty you don't even need 63 gear, just go for 61 and get the 63 main and offhand. Deleting your character seems a little extreme. You're beating yourself up over something that you can fix within a week or two. Like I said talk to Shep he'll point you in the best direction. If 1v1ing is what you're looking for no other VG or PT does it better than him.

[Raazmir]

Truthfully, powertech is one of the easier classes to minmax gear for, i think combat tech's leggings are the ones that offer a high power mod and power/surge enhancements. It wont be top of the line but those should do you reasonably well and at 975 a pair its pretty easy to get a bunch in a short time.

[PoliteAssasin]

Truthfully, powertech is one of the easier classes to minmax gear for, i think combat tech's leggings are the ones that offer a high power mod and power/surge enhancements. It wont be top of the line but those should do you reasonably well and at 975 a pair its pretty easy to get a bunch in a short time.

 

Never claimed it was difficult, but a lot of PTs and vanguards do it wrong.

[Raazmir]

Didn't mean to imply you were, it was more a reassurance to siricus that it shouldn't be particularly difficult to do, at least a mid grade min/max .

 

Plus as a bonus with legacy gear if you have a cybertech you can RE the crap mods/armorings for stabilizers.

[-Dark-]

So... at this current moment it's literally all gear based? Well geez, I'm practically screwed then!

 

I don't have the time to sit up and grind out mods/enhancements and at this given point, it looks like my spec is pretty much getting worse. The only solution I see is "switch to Assault or be terrible."

 

As far as I can tell, I'm practically just waiting an inevitable doom unless BW decides to change the huge nerf to Tactics in 2.0.

[Raazmir]

As in EWH compared to WH? No not really, the bigger difference comes from making sure you have the proper itemization and it seems most importantly for most specs, higher power.

[PoliteAssasin]

@Raazmir - ah ok then I wasn't sure if it was referring to my post or not.

 

@Hux - man you need to stop. I mean your signature, really? I've fought some pretty bad players, some in "pro" guilds, I'd never even think to categorize you as one of them. Vengeance was my first spec on my juggernaut. I loved it, it was so much fun. But it got nerfed, about 3 times in the last year. I had no choice but to pick up a broom and sweep, but does that make me or anyone else affected by it the worst player on the server? No. Your problem is gear, not skill. Even considering your gear you do pretty well for it in warzones. Don't take this the wrong way because I really like you man, but its getting to be pretty annoying seeing you do nothing but wallow in self pity because of the situation you are in, or the negative comments others have told you. Stop replaying that in your head, and make a plan over a designated period of time to acquire the gear you need to compliment your skills and allow you to enjoy your class. I'm trying to help you, others are trying to help you and I referred you to the best person you could talk to about the class, but its up to you to act. You can always go assault, and if you don't like the way its played stay tactics, gear up, and play your best at it. This whole thing with threads about how bad you are, or posting about how so many professional players told you to quit the game (without naming a single one of these exceptional individuals) is getting old. Unfortunately this is a gear game. A combat sentinel isn't going to be able to two shot a player in vanilla war hero gear, that's only possible if they're min maxed. Same with other dps classes, gear is a major factor in warzones or fights. It does not have to be elite war hero, but it needs to be min maxed, mod ripped to suit your spec. The last thing we want to do is see you leave. But if you're going to stay even if you don't have time to grind all day, still progress towards a min maxed gear set. It takes time, and everyone has to go through the process. We all will be doing it again fairly soon as well. Hopefully you'll be right there with us.

Edited March 16, 2013 by PoliteAssasin

[duelsaberman]

I use advanced prototype on my powertech, (aka tactics), and i think its great. i play for the objectives in pvp but i can still give most people trouble. healers are a little tougher to take down especially ones with guard than they would be for pyro. if i do run into that combo, dotting the the tank and the healer helps. and if you can group them up when your 3 stacks of prototype flame thrower are up they are in for a treat . i like to add survivability and more utility for huttball so i change to this hybrid spec for those matches. Edited March 16, 2013 by duelsaberman

[OHARRIIS]

Well this to me sad to see one of the few Tactics players calling themselves a bad player. However as its looking tactics is really crappy in 2.0 when compared to assault so a swap to assault may be the better choice in the long run.

 

However these changes are not definet yet so here's hoping tacts will get rebalanced properly to look at it from a positive view

 

As for your usefulness 1v1 tacts isn't the better choice out of the two, BUT if your doing ranked with a team, 1v1 shouldn't be a concern for you anyways your team should be backing you up and be working like a unit always. As it sits VG/PT isn't the best at solo capping objectives due to our crap cd's and if you come across a good shadow/sin for example with lots of elemental resistance whether your assault or tacts your likely not to make it anyways (not always the case but for the purpose of the example we'll say shadow will win 6/10 fights with a VG due to the shadow's abundance of toolage).

 

Personally I'd say stick with what your good at for example I'm the opposite of you where I suck at tactics compared to how I play assault, there's no sense doing something your not comfortable with playing because 9/10 times your just gonna play worse.( besides tacts gives you some survivability towards smash monkey's which is always nice )

 

Here are some assault builds for your convenience should you decide to swap. These builds are completely optional and I'd suggest going for your personal choices depending on what you want.

 

General Assault PvP build

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMZMcZfhrbdhhrs.2

 

Assault PvE Build (also works with pvp because it pumps you ion pulse and aim stat up while making ammo management a hell of a lot easier without trying to balance Assault Plastic into the rotation.)

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhZMsMZfhrbdhhM.2 (Note the 2 points can be swapped between Parallatic Combat Stims and Rapid Recharge)

 

P.S: There are several minor changes and point swaps you can do between SS and Tactics but because its like 2:00am for me and the sake of sleep ill let you dick around with those few points

[-Dark-]

Well this has been some interesting feedback. I'll probably log on sometime past the wee hours of the morning (3:06am at the moment). I'll see what can be done about this spec.

 

Thanks for the comments will see you tomorrow