Problem with tanks in this game.

[Wanchope]

With the loss of Unremitting for Guardian tanks, I can now safely and confidently say that mob cc in this game is simply obnoxious.

 

I was thinking the same thing. I've been leveling on Makeb and was trying out the new (to me at least) full tank build. Man do I miss Unremitting! So many stuns and knockbakcks in mobs now! Its a serious nuisance. I'm not dieing or anything, its just annoying to deal with.

[JagdCorneliu]

There is a huge problem in this game ..with tanks and melee classes...especially with the Guardian ...his cc imunity is non existant both in pve and pvp .

 

You jump into combat just to be pulled , pushed , imobilized stuned ...for about 6-10 seconds and you can't do anything about it , exactly when it is more important for you to be able to use your taunts , aoe and other threat generating abilities.

 

Resolute not only fails big time ....but it is also on a 2 minutes colldown .

 

The other tanks have CC imunity ..while the guardian .the one who needs most...cause he is melee has none.

 

Classes like gunslinger has 20 seconds and can reach 40 seconds CC IMMUNITY the trooper has CC immunity .

 

 

Also in PvP when you reach the white bar you don't break cc ...and also there are a lot of cc who bypass the resolute bar . lke imobilize and sometimes pushes .

 

As a melee class you are required to stay in melee range and do your job ..in this game both in PvE and PvP you can't stay .

[Mobyus]

Pssh...

 

I think you're all spoiled by other MMOs lol...

 

I've been a Jedi Guardian tank since beta and I don't have any issues with maintaining threat on multiple mobs in groups; nor do knockbacks/stuns bother me when I know when I should/shouldn't use the stun-break.

 

If you Force Leap to a target then get pulled away by another mob, not only do you have Saber Throw to use and generate some more focus, but you also have a free Blade Storm to use while you move in.

 

I really really hate being "that guy" on the forums... but there have been so many "Guardian Tanks Suck!" threads that it's getting old. Just learn how to play your class. Work your taunts into your rotation. Don't stay focused on the same target... TAB around and hit multiple enemies a few times to keep them pissed at you.

 

If you're only using taunts when other group members are getting hit, you're doing it wrong.

If you're standing there attacking the same target like a DPS, you're doing it wrong.

If you're not taking advantage of all of the skills you have at your disposal... guess what? You're doing it wrong.

[LarryRow]

If you Force Leap to a target then get pulled away by another mob, not only do you have Saber Throw to use and generate some more focus, but you also have a free Blade Storm to use while you move in.

 

Pulled by another mob? That would be awesome. But, alas, no, we are stunned or knocked straight back (should be accompanied by a "Rejected!" audio cue) at a time when building early threat is most critical. For knockbacks you can maybe Guardian leap to your dps, but for stuns, your breaker is on a 2 minute cd. Give me a break.

 

Guardians are totally awesome, and they make great tanks. They have the tools to get aggro, keep aggro, survive, and protect others. They are fun to play. Good Guardians are not complaining about Guardians. What is not fun and what good Guardians are complaining about is all the unnecessary, obnoxious mob cc.

[Mobyus]

What is not fun and what good Guardians are complaining about is all the unnecessary, obnoxious mob cc.

 

I have to ask, then: where are you running into this issue? Obviously it must be in an area of the game that I do not frequent.

 

Edit:

The worst I can think of is Chasing the Shadow in the Black Hole. The humanoids have a knockback they use on initial contact, and the large droids have a grapple that pull you in. While it can be rather annoying, it can easily be avoided by properly CC'ing mobs before initiating the fight; but even without CC, the knocking around only lasts two or three seconds and is over.

 

Never have I been stunned by a mob for longer than 3 seconds... and if you're being annoyed by a 3-second pause in combat... I got nothing for you. All I can say is that it's part of the game. Everyone will have issues with some aspect of everything; can't please a whole crowd.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Mobyus

[LarryRow]

I see it all the time on trash packs in flashpoints, and even while questing on Makeb I was often cc'ed for 5 seconds. This is for the brief time that I was stupid enough to not be specced in Vigilance. I had just finished tanking a flashpoint and was running around questing as a tank to see if I liked it.

 

I've also heard that Mandolorian Raiders is particularly awful for immediate mob cc.

 

Even 3 seconds is plenty of time to lose aggro to dps who are used to leaping in pretty much right away. Yeah, you can get it back, but it shouldn't be happening. Speaking of pleasing everybody, tell me who would complain if mobs didn't do cc's and knockbacks at the start of pulls? I mean, besides you, because then you couldn't be a forum hero about it anymore.

[Vego_Mohenjo]

Just to put in my 2 credits...

 

I've played tanks in many games, including City of Heroes, Lord of the Rings Online, DDO, Champions Online, Warhammer Online, and so on. I enjoy being hard to kill. I don't enjoy being forever on the brink of death, constantly clicking emergency powers to save myself.

 

Unfortunately, that's what seems to be happening here a LOT. Now, I'm only L25 now, so it may get better yet, but it's been very hard to enjoy the character when he doesn't do much damage and can't absorb much damage. I'll describe a typical encounter on Taris.

 

I was about L20. I came upon a group of 5 Rakghouls. They were L16 weak foes. I defeated them, but it required the use of Saber Ward (which I consider an "emergency power") AND a Med Pack. At the end of the fight, I had about 20% health left. Before I could do anything else, I had to stop and heal myself, and then wait for Saber Ward to cool down before I could fight again, because without it, I would certainly lose.

 

To me, that seems very squishy.

 

Against a single strong foe, I'd end up in the same condition as above, and against an elite foe it would take a miracle for me to win. That's against foes 4-5 levels BELOW me.

 

My first thought was I must be doing something wrong. My gear is decent; better than many others online at the time, or so they said. An experienced Guardian considered my attack chain and said it sounded good, so I was left wondering what else to do.

 

In my opinion, tanks in this game are excessively squishy. I don't think they need to be CoH tough, but they need to be tougher than they are. There are, of course, many ways that could be accomplished.

[GarfieldJL]

The problem is you don't get the healer char until much later in the game...

[Zellfel]

The mobs in the Heroic 4 on Makeb (Savage Skies) were downright frustrating. 2-3 silvers that each have a knockback+root, and golds that loved to stun me. No one was in fear of death because the healer I had with me was good, but it was still frustrating as hell.

[Elyxin]

Couple of General notes on the Guardian/Juggernaut class. Have 3 Juggs to date, leveling a guard in the new 2.0 (and getting my others to 55 from 50). raided heavily up through TFB SM pre 2.0. also have tanking/healing experience in many other MMO's. Quick note on the Knockback: ALL the tanks have that issue, so your not suffering alone. CC just sucks in this game, period. but our class, well, is great.

 

On Leveling:

the Guard/Jugg class is a late bloomer. many of our CC skills, heavy damage skills, and powerful abilities are post lvl 30, and we honestly don't come into our own until the early 40's. This is a design issue that has been a contention since beta....but a complete redesign is probably not in the works ever, so most of us have accepted it as it is. Our tanking tree is in the best shape it has even been, but with a decent healer you almost don't need to be in the tanking tree to tank a run. you can run a Vigilance guard in Soresu form with tank-ish gear and do just fine in most leveling FP's. But Level cap is a different story. Immortal really shines at end game, and is a fun and dynamic spec to play.

 

Also, as a Guard, you don't get your healer Comp until your mid 30's. this game is dependent heavily on the class/companion interrelation, and this is another crutch for the Guard class (the Juggernaut does not suffer this as they get their healer on planet 2). once you get your healer comp, you will be amazed at how "tankish" you suddenly get. you really are not a full class without your comp. Guards are just gimped until Bamlorra unfortunately. A few other classes suffer like this too....gunslinger for one example.

 

Instance Running:

this game relies heavily on the balance between tank, healer, and DPS in groups. I currently heal on 2 classes end game (tank on 2 as well), and when I'm healing its fun to see the tank be hesitant on the first few pulls, then when he realized he's not going to die with me in the back, he goes ape*&$@ crazy...and it's fun. Yes, you need a healer...they designed this class with that limitation. It's frustrating at times, but with a good healer your a powerhouse. a huge amount of mobility and control in a tight package. but our Achilles heel is our complete lack of personal healing abilities. life will change with the Doc.

 

ON another note: After leveling 3 of this class, I can safely say that they are perfectly viable, quite flexible, and have a ton of versatility whe played to their max, taking into account their personal challenges. But yes...if your use to a tank being...well, unstoppable force, your in for a suprise. but thats by design. it doesn't make the class less viable, as all the tanks have the same issues. is the role, not our class, and it's how Bio designed it.

 

But I'm currently 32 on my guard, and having relatively no issues. Using t7 as a tank, and running Vigilance spec. I bounce agro back and forth between us as much as possible, and keep a regular supply of medpacks on my from my Biotech, and I rarely have serious downtime.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Elyxin

[JagdCorneliu]

Leveling a guardian is easy ..and I did a lot of FP in which I was the tank but speced as a damage .

 

Farming is done on focus since it has a very good combo with auto crit force sweep . And I barely played with doc mostly used Kira and Scourge.

 

The real problem is in PvP , Makeb and multiple CC npc encounters .

 

Lack of CC immunity and the fact that the CC breaker is on a 2 minute cooldown .

 

With a vanguard you acctivate CC immunity and attack them ...and build aggro

 

With shadow same thing .... with Guardian ... you attack and get pushed pulled stuned slowed rooted and then you start building aggro .

 

And that is not funny . Cause as tank I keep the group alive but if I am out of combat..what can I do ..

[Throki]

The mobs in the Heroic 4 on Makeb (Savage Skies) were downright frustrating. 2-3 silvers that each have a knockback+root, and golds that loved to stun me. No one was in fear of death because the healer I had with me was good, but it was still frustrating as hell.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with that. Tanking those groups was frustrating as hell - they've sure overdone it in that mission with all those knockbacks & roots.

[Elyxin]

On the subject of the KB's, I am in agreement. Eve if you can account for it in your rotation, even if we had approriate responses (more taunts, whatever), the sheer number of KB's is just irritating. out of all the mechanics they could do to add challenge, they pick one that universally seems to provoke frustration....