Nydus Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I agree with the majority of commentary on this thread. But lets be brutally honest, given the continual infighting amongst the Imperials it is amazing they haven't lost completely. Not only does the leadership caste of the Empire refuse to co-operate in battle (often resulting in needless causalities), you have Darths decimating entire Imperial planets and fleets to gain political advantage. And I'm not even getting into the events surrounding Malgus on Ilum! I have to say, the Empire in this game is one of the worst run organizations I've seen. Citizens are killed at random in the capital city for sport, soldiers with long and decorated careers can be executed for failing to meet an impossible objective, and the leadership of the organization seems to revel in this chaos. Any advantage they had at the start of the conflict has been squandered. Order and planning win wars, and I Empire does not demonstrate a capacity for enforcing either. - Arcada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalmackem Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I agree with the majority of commentary on this thread. But lets be brutally honest, given the continual infighting amongst the Imperials it is amazing they haven't lost completely. Not only does the leadership caste of the Empire refuse to co-operate in battle (often resulting in needless causalities), you have Darths decimating entire Imperial planets and fleets to gain political advantage. And I'm not even getting into the events surrounding Malgus on Ilum! I have to say, the Empire in this game is one of the worst run organizations I've seen. Citizens are killed at random in the capital city for sport, soldiers with long and decorated careers can be executed for failing to meet an impossible objective, and the leadership of the organization seems to revel in this chaos. Any advantage they had at the start of the conflict has been squandered. Order and planning win wars, and I Empire does not demonstrate a capacity for enforcing either. - Arcada If you have not already I recommend reading the book Decieved, it basically explains why malgus has the views he has now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 You have to realize all the storylines aren't happening at the same time. So some of the Sith victories were early on where as a lot of Republic victories came later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) The idea here is the republic has turned the tide and now has the advantage. Think about it this way, and yes, spoilers ahead. You have on the Republic side, you have reclaimed Corellia and Balmorra, and the leadership for the empire, the Emperor, is believed to be dead, NOT TO MENTION the other source of leadership pushing the war, the dark council, has been absolutely decimated, sporting less than half of their original members. Add to that defections by Darth Malgus trying to create a splinter Empire and the Dread Masters causing havoc going rogue, and from the Republic standpoint, you look at that and say "what a mess". There is no unified direction for the Empire at the moment. The class missions on that side minus BH who is always out for himself anyway, end up with Imperial Intelligence disbanded, Becoming the Emperor's Wrath for an emperor in convalescence and not able to get his word out, and the Replacing a Dark Council member with another because of infighting instead of focusing on the war at hand. So yeah, overall, it definitely does paint the picture of the Republic turning the tide and being on the advantage, and the Empire crumbling from within. That statement doesn't mean the war is over and the Empire just should pack up and go home, but remember the history - up until this point, the Empire has NEVER been at a disadvantage, so the fact that they are for the first time in this war is a big deal, especially for Republic morale. But yeah, its plain to anyone with eyes and a brain the republic has seized the advantage at this point in the story, and I'd imagine it stays this way until the Emperor comes back to take control, whenever that is in the story. The Republic needs their time to shine and get overconfident and sloppy, and let their own politics hose them up. Edited March 11, 2013 by AmberGreen added spoiler tags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) You have to realize all the storylines aren't happening at the same time. So some of the Sith victories were early on where as a lot of Republic victories came later on. This is very true. Plus I forgot to mention in my last post - Commando takes out the Empire's top general in a republic taking over of the Bastion fortress on corellia. To reinforce the point of this happening at a later date, one of the last conversations you have with one of your companions as a sith warrior is him assembling a black ops team to go and take the Bastion from the Republic in the first place and working under orders from that same General. That alone shows all the stories take place in different overlapping timelines. Edited March 11, 2013 by AmberGreen Added spoiler tags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalmackem Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 The idea here is the republic has turned the tide and now has the advantage. Think about it this way, and yes, spoilers ahead. You have on the Republic side, you have reclaimed Corellia and Balmorra, and the leadership for the empire, the Emperor, is believed to be dead, NOT TO MENTION the other source of leadership pushing the war, the dark council, has been absolutely decimated, sporting less than half of their original members. Add to that defections by Darth Malgus trying to create a splinter Empire and the Dread Masters causing havoc going rogue, and from the Republic standpoint, you look at that and say "what a mess". There is no unified direction for the Empire at the moment. The class missions on that side minus BH who is always out for himself anyway, end up with Imperial Intelligence disbanded, Becoming the Emperor's Wrath for an emperor in convalescence and not able to get his word out, and the Replacing a Dark Council member with another because of infighting instead of focusing on the war at hand. So yeah, overall, it definitely does paint the picture of the Republic turning the tide and being on the advantage, and the Empire crumbling from within. That statement doesn't mean the war is over and the Empire just should pack up and go home, but remember the history - up until this point, the Empire has NEVER been at a disadvantage, so the fact that they are for the first time in this war is a big deal, especially for Republic morale. But yeah, its plain to anyone with eyes and a brain the republic has seized the advantage at this point in the story, and I'd imagine it stays this way until the Emperor comes back to take control, whenever that is in the story. The Republic needs their time to shine and get overconfident and sloppy, and let their own politics hose them up. Firstly you could of used spoiler tags like the rest of us have.... Anyway moving on, in the History up unto this point the empire has been a lot worse, the republic nearly Hunter the sith to extinction and if it wasn't for the emperor leading them to the hidden plant of DK there would be no sith or empire in the game at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) No you weren't, they were Hk-50s not 51s. HK-50 were the enemies you encountered during game on several places. However, the cut content included HK Factory location, where you controlled HK47 and tried to shut it down. In there, new line of droids were being build, and those were HK51. The mission took place at the same time Exile+Mandalore+Visas are on Darth Nihilus's ship. Obsidian made KoToR2, not Bioware. My bad, I thought that BW had more story input and that some of the original writing team was working with Obsidian, but apparently I was wrong. However, it does not change the fact that HK51s were in the original design documentation. Edited March 11, 2013 by Aries_cz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Speaking generally to avoid too many spoilers, the Agent story nails it in a nut shell. During that story, we see the dysfunction of the Sith and the detriment it is to the Empire. Shockingly so actually.... The story even describes the self serving Sith power struggles on Corellia from other stories and the negative impact therein. OP, once I had completed the Agent story, I had no doubts as to who was winning the war and who would be the victors in this chapter of galactic history. In fact, just to take a bit further, it certainly goes along way to justifying The Rule of Two. And... tbh, I now find myself rooting for the downfall at this point in history, given all that has transpired internally. BTW, the Agent story is fantastic. Well worth the effort. It is IMO what this game should always strive for in terms of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 We can see it even just from the personal triumph's of the player classes. The SW story has the player rising up to defeat his master, weakening the Sith overall. The SI story has the player rising up to defeat the forces of a rival Sith, weakening the Sith overall. The IA story see Intelligence dissolved and more infighting between factions of the Empire. Whereas the Republic stories: The JK rises up to become a hero of the Jedi who will lead them on to future victories. Same with the JC. The Trooper rebuilds a devastated special forces division, leaving them ready to take on the Empire in future battles. The Smuggler builds himself a criminal Empire with the blessing of the Republic for mutual benefit. Thats not even taking in to account planet stories, Operations, Flashpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontbeswg Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Can I have your stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabenschwinge Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) I think the central point is the events in The False Emperor and the ending of the Jedi Knight story... The Republic is winning not in so far as they are conquering back worlds, but in so far as they maintain the status quo despite the efforts of the Empire. The Empire is still strong but without a single direction... Edited March 11, 2013 by Rabenschwinge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnusheart Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 Foundry star forge wasn't destroyed in the false emperor. that was the emperor's personal space station that Malgus stole. He used Foundry tech, but the asteroid that is the foundry isn't seen, or else it would of been an epic republic side flashpoint equivalent to the false emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Foundry star forge wasn't destroyed in the false emperor. that was the emperor's personal space station that Malgus stole. He used Foundry tech, but the asteroid that is the foundry isn't seen, or else it would of been an epic republic side flashpoint equivalent to the false emperor. I have asked the question regarding the fate of the Foundry in the Lore section. I am very interested in its fate. Peeps there replied that it was lost after Malgus left it at unknown co-ordinates and since he disappeared after the False Emperor... Well, at least they have a window opened for the return of Malgus. Malgus and his endless army of droids -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 ok here's some important things to note: The Imperial military lost 10% of their numbers at Corellia. it was a disaster for them. this combined with the spoilers from the IA story make it clear to me at least that ignoreing the Sith, the Conventional forces of the empire are reeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) ok here's some important things to note: The Imperial military lost 10% of their numbers at Corellia. it was a disaster for them. this combined with the spoilers from the IA story make it clear to me at least that ignoreing the Sith, the Conventional forces of the empire are reeling. Wait... Didn't we ravage Correlia's hypermatter supply before we left it? The hard-earned victory turned into something rather devasting for the planet? Edited March 11, 2013 by Alec_Fortescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnusheart Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Wait... Didn't we ravage Correlia's hypermatter supply before we left it? The hard-earned victory turned into something rather devasting for the planet? Yes yes we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I'm not sure how the OP missed all the huge rep victories in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxtross Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 It's just like Episode IV all over again,the Rep winning,all hunky dory and then bang! The Empire Strikes back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 It's just like Episode IV all over again,the Rep winning,all hunky dory and then bang! The Empire Strikes back Go ahead and laugh, but I see this happening. The Empire, left reeling and confused because of Sith infighting, loses and loses and gets driven back.. And then the Emperor wakes up. He cleans house, sets the Dark Council in order, executes those that won't fall in line, reestablishes solid control over the Empire and drives forward again. BW could do this for years. Swapping out the 'winning side' with each new expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxtross Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Go ahead and laugh, but I see this happening. The Empire, left reeling and confused because of Sith infighting, loses and loses and gets driven back.. And then the Emperor wakes up. He cleans house, sets the Dark Council in order, executes those that won't fall in line, reestablishes solid control over the Empire and drives forward again. BW could do this for years. Swapping out the 'winning side' with each new expansion. I'm not laughing Yeah i'm thinking it will swing to that whole swapping 'winning side' again with each new expansion/updates maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnusheart Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 I'm not sure how the OP missed all the huge rep victories in the story. 1. As I said I tried to avoid all major class related events that can be changed dependent on personal choice of kill or redeem. 2. By all means, list them then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmaimburn Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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