Scripts in PVP

[Thexremstar]

My original post on this topic since it was deleted.

 

OMG another hacker/botting/cheat programme that no life cheaters use to destroy the gameing of everyone else How can this be stopped BW do something I want a fair PvP game come RoHC I dont want cheats ruining mine and everyone elses chances of gaining a good foothold in the PvP scene in SWToR, would really like to get a decent rank at 55 not geting smashed in WZ's because of cheats and hacks! there must be a way to monitor background programmes in use bye players ie. mumble/ventrillo/skype/TS3/MOXParser and any other DPS/Heal Metre should be aloud but any thing else should not be aloud and the game should close for any player useing any other programmes linked to SWToR.

[LenrocNewDawn]

Such rude and abrasives comments about this issue! Don't mind me asking but , do you guys have any stake in this or are you just being regular SWTOR groupies ? Don't get me wrong I like the darn thing I've been playing it for the last 15 months or so but still can keep my pants on when we talk about various issues the community brings up.

 

Now, now, take a "how to dialogue" pill and chill !

[Crawelc]

Nuclear aircraft carriers could drive through the gap between "could technically create" and "actually exists and is a problem."

 

When this stops being fiction, then we'll start hysterical world is ending threads demanding developer responses.

 

But the programs and scripts do exist and are a problem.

[Groncho]

head of security?

 

does he get a gun?

 

We are talking bout serious stuff here

 

 

 

 

[Crawelc]

Such rude and abrasives comments about this issue! Don't mind me asking but , do you guys have any stake in this or are you just being regular SWTOR groupies ? Don't get me wrong I like the darn thing I've been playing it for the last 15 months or so but still can keep my pants on when we talk about various issues the community brings up.

 

Now, now, take a "how to dialogue" pill and chill !

 

No, Nope, Uh Uh no vested interest at all. I do get a laugh from who all the uber negative posters are.

[prodigyqnz]

Nuclear aircraft carriers could drive through the gap between "could technically create" and "actually exists and is a problem."

 

When this stops being fiction, then we'll start hysterical world is ending threads demanding developer responses.

 

How can you say its fiction with the confession of guilty parties?

[MasaaCypher]

derpa

[Caeliux]

But the programs and scripts do exist and are a problem.

 

Hence the reason why we need someone from Bioware to comment on this very topic, and enlighten us what they plan to do about it.

[Crawelc]

Still here still waiting.

[Thexremstar]

after veiwing this web page MacroGoblin I now see that so many pre made groups would definatly be useing this and when u get jumped bye 4 smash trash at once it all comes clear whilst admitadly some pre made teams obviously arent useing this cause when there smash trash jump u its 1 at a time not all at once, cause I dont care how well you communicate on voips no team is so timed that they all jump at the exact millisecond required to time some of the moves being pulled off! MacroGoblin Is a boxing bot programme that can link many accounts together runing off of 1 keyboard and reducing player reaction lag bye mega ammounts! Allowing these pre made teams to dominate any team! Unfortunatly I dont believe BW will do anything just as other Game Dev teams(Blizzard) As a player runing 4 accounts pays more $$$$ then a single player! But in saying this how many more Subs do BW want to lose to these cheaters! I mean its PvP not MULTI BOX PLAYER vs 1player! Its Unfair and these cheaters need to stop cheating them selves and everyone else and be fair! I want everyone who reads this to vote GET RID OF CHEATERS IN OUR GAME! Its not fair and really pathetic that these no life losers can do it and continue to get away with it, and on top of this BoXing Bots you've got other cheats that think its fair to run anit stun/speed hacks/stealth cap hacks and under ground capping hacks! any way bag me out more you cheaters I enjoy it!

[jjmartin]

I'm torn. That's either a 1/10 or a 10/10. I can't tell.

[Caeliux]

I'm torn. That's either a 1/10 or a 10/10. I can't tell.

 

Your post 0/10

 

I could tell.

[Wainamoinen]

How can you say its fiction with the confession of guilty parties?

 

One statement, that isn't even first hand, from an unnamed person claiming he used a macro aand macros are being used by the top teams and players, who if all the previous is true made it when he quit playing. As confessions go, that wouldn't convict someone of having bad breath.

 

Added to the fact a macro program won't make you a PvP god. Anything that automates hitting cooldowns will do them at the wrong time, because it can't take into account every factor a good human player can.

 

Example: It hits a medpack when you drop below 30%? That would drive me insane - it would be constantly wasting medpacks and putting them on cooldown, so not usable when I really need them.

 

It would execute abilities faster than a human? Not really. The global cooldown means you can't perform a blizzard of attacks at lightning speed, and the game also has a half-second ability delay (you can alter this), which means a human with half-decent reactions can queue an ability up to act instantly it's available.

 

There will be a few situations - grabbing a reset huttball spawn maybe -where a macro would help you get there first (assuming the oppo doesn't stun, KB, etc), but these are rare. I'd still consider that cheating, by the way, and it shouldn't be permitted.

 

Anyone who believes automated responses will win them PvP matches doesn't PvP much. I honestly wonder what the agenda of the people demanding dev responses is. Maybe the people pushing this believe macros in PvP are a big problem - in which case they are simply wrong, and should realise that devs don't respond because a) it isn't a big problem; b) that would obviously lend validation to Chicken Little's "sky is falling!" story.

 

Maybe macros are widespread in PvE - I wouldn't know, but could believe them being much more use there.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Wainamoinen

[Thurinlore]

after veiwing this web page MacroGoblin I now see that so many pre made groups would definatly be useing this and when u get jumped bye 4 smash trash at once it all comes clear whilst admitadly some pre made teams obviously arent useing this cause when there smash trash jump u its 1 at a time not all at once, cause I dont care how well you communicate on voips no team is so timed that they all jump at the exact millisecond required to time some of the moves being pulled off! MacroGoblin Is a boxing bot programme that can link many accounts together runing off of 1 keyboard and reducing player reaction lag bye mega ammounts! Allowing these pre made teams to dominate any team! Unfortunatly I dont believe BW will do anything just as other Game Dev teams(Blizzard) As a player runing 4 accounts pays more $$$$ then a single player! But in saying this how many more Subs do BW want to lose to these cheaters! I mean its PvP not MULTI BOX PLAYER vs 1player! Its Unfair and these cheaters need to stop cheating them selves and everyone else and be fair! I want everyone who reads this to vote GET RID OF CHEATERS IN OUR GAME! Its not fair and really pathetic that these no life losers can do it and continue to get away with it, and on top of this BoXing Bots you've got other cheats that think its fair to run anit stun/speed hacks/stealth cap hacks and under ground capping hacks! any way bag me out more you cheaters I enjoy it!

What the? I don't even...

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/29/AbandonThread.gif

[Caeliux]

Anyone who believes automated responses will win them PvP matches doesn't PvP much. I honestly wonder what the agenda of the people demanding dev responses is. Maybe the people pushing this believe macros in PvP are a big problem - in which case they are simply wrong, and should realise that devs don't respond because a) it isn't a big problem; b) that would obviously lend validation to Chicken Little's "sky is falling!" story.

 

You honesty underestimate the power of a script, and if I link and post the facts this thread would be deleted and I would be banned from the forums.

 

Lets pretend and just say some of us are restrained to provide truth of this matter shall we.

[Atramar]

You honesty underestimate the power of a script, and if I link and post the facts this thread would be deleted and I would be banned from the forums.

 

Lets pretend and just say some of us are restrained to provide truth of this matter shall we.

 

You should be politician.

'I have proofs and facts, but I won't use them, so let's pretend I'm right and trust me I am.

Lack of evidence is best proof I'm right.

If others have evidence I'm wrong, it means that their facts are wrong.

vote for me, vote for me, I'm only good guy, all rest are evil agents of satan'

[KamujinKravshera]

As I read this thread, I realize there are 3 groups of people posting here. The whisleblowers, the liars, and the ignorant.

 

To the whistleblowers... you've done your job, your conscious should be clean.

To the liars... whatever Lance.

To the ignorant... you've been told. Don't cry later when you learn the truth.

 

All of this said. What I don't hear in this thread is a large amount of community outrage. You can't force people to care, and for the most part, they don't. If enough people think this is not an issue, then I'd be inclined to agree regardless of what my personal opinion is.

[LenrocNewDawn]

He used facts and links and the thread got deleted that's a fact. I'd know cause I've posted in that thread . Also if you use a script w/o "if" that would be a bad script. Biggest benefit of a script, as I've already stated, isn't the increased speed of executions (although it can be quite considerable), real benefit would come from freeing your brain resources for other action like surveying the battle field. Also you can script multiple action sequences and bind those sequences to your keyboard. Also keep in mind that a script can be turned off at any time and you can take full control if none of the sequences are suitable for one particular situation.

At my work I was using a macro script to complete hundreds of forms with raw data. It even moved the mouse to click certain fields that weren't reachable by tab. Yes a form is not changing I give you that but stop pretending that in SWTOR PvP we encounter a million of different scenarios that can't only be dealt in a million of different ways cause it's a bit foolish. Yes some situation may require special attention and you can do just that by intervening and overriding the script.

[Wainamoinen]

At my work I was using a macro script to complete hundreds of forms with raw data. It even moved the mouse to click certain fields that weren't reachable by tab.

I work with spreadsheet macros, I wrote one to parse my combat logs for the data I was interested in.

 

I wouldn't want to use a script in PvP because the conditions and the interactions between them are too numerous for an automated script to handle more effectively than I can myself. The person writing it can't cover all the variables, so his script certainly can't react to them.

 

Saying "you can turn them off if they'd do the wrong thing" isn't an answer to poor decision making by macros/scripts - the whole point of them is to act without you thinking, quicker than you, so you're not going to be able to intervene before they've performed the dopey decision.

 

I haven't seen this "evidence" you talk about, so I don't kow if it's compelling or not. I only know the evidence that *has* been given is far from convincing; my experience of playing a lot of SWTOR PvP hasn't made me suspect a great problem of scripts/macros; and I'm far from convinced that they would be more than situationally effective if people do use them.

 

That means I regard the "issue" this thread goes on about as a highly marginal problem, and hyping it as something game-breaking that demands a dev response only feeds the paranoia of people who know no better, who then won't play, and that damages the game.

[Crawelc]

There are already whole guilds who wont do rateds due to this issue. Mine being the least of them. We have not done rateds since before the POT5 merger due solely to this issue. The fact that ingorance is bliss doesnt mean I shouldnt bring up what I see to be a major issue.

[JustinxDuff]

I don't understand why people are so fervent to brush this aside or act like morons.

 

The bottom line is that these scripts exist.

[Wainamoinen]

There are already whole guilds who wont do rateds due to this issue. Mine being the least of them. We have not done rateds since before the POT5 merger due solely to this issue. The fact that ingorance is bliss doesnt mean I shouldnt bring up what I see to be a major issue.

 

You, your guild and maybe others are convinced that macros and scripts give cheats an un-playable edge, fair enough. But that's only evidence of what you believe, not that there is actually a big problem. Now, I haven't seen the "evidence" you have (apologies for the inverted commas, I use them because I haven't seen it to judge whether I'd call it evidence), so I can't comment directly on whether it convinces that they're widely used.

 

I would say (as I did above), that I don't see how they can make bad PvPers good (though like I said, I can think of marginal situations where they'd give cheats an edge). Going on from that, I'd say that in my opinion your guild are hurting themselves unnecessarily by not doing something fun together. I'd encourage you all to go play with an open mind - and if you see something dodgy yourselves, go ahead and report it. If you'd like the option to be able to go back and review something you thought dodgy you can run Bandicam to record better evidence (freebie video cap program - I've a middle/decent PC and I haven't noticed performance issues), and if you didn't see anything you'd still have a record of you and your mates' victories/humiliating destruction. Rated teams are generally a bit good mind, so be prepared.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Wainamoinen

[Wainamoinen]

I don't understand why people are so fervent to brush this aside or act like morons.

 

The bottom line is that these scripts exist.

 

While I am sometimes and idiot, and have been known to be wrong, I'm not a moron.

 

I'm not arguing they don't exist, but that on the basis of flimsy evidence this thread massively exaggerates both their effectiveness and how widespread their use is.

[Crawelc]

It is causing a scism in my guild I will say that. Every day I have to combat the "if you cant beat them join them" mentality. Im not going to join them for sure. So it seems I just have to give up.

 

Edited to remove sarcasm

Edited March 14, 2013 by Crawelc

[KamujinKravshera]

I'm not arguing they don't exist, but that on the basis of flimsy evidence this thread massively exaggerates both their effectiveness and how widespread their use is.

 

Considering that posting hard evidence in this thread will get it closed and deleted, I don't think your reasoning is as logically sound as you do.

 

The tools being used have been disclosed as well as the general methodology. That you can not imagine the advantage offered by these tools seems to me to be a failure of imagination on your part, not an invalidation of the claims of people with first hand knowledge.