Ban all premades outside of ranked 50

[danielearley]

Trust me I like the challenge but I hate most pugs with a passion, most are bads and do things that I hate. Last night in a voidstar I sapped a trooper and started to plant on the second door which we needed to win and I was going to get it until along comes this pug who breaks the CC...things like this happens all the time which is why I like to play with people with above average intelligence.

 

If pugs had somewhat of a clue then I think these posts would die out quickly. When I solo queue its not like I play any different its just that there are masses of players who cannot grasp the most simplistic of tasks in warzones like calling out incs, not over committing, identifying and focusing key targets and be able to do this and maintain some sort of objective play.

 

Nail and head

[buffgfc]

The people who don't want premades i feel are the scoreboard hero's who don't help their team in a warzone and just want kills. Also if you want solo mass killing on star wars go play battlefront 2 and leave everyone else alone. I do not see why a bunch of friends should be banned and moved around for having fun is their money not as important as yours? Are you so self centered you think a mmo should revolve around your play style and no compromise.

 

i thought the compromise offered was to have premades, more often than not, facing other premades, and pug groups facing other pug groups. seems fair to me, and it certainly wasn't offered up by the defenders of the premade groups.

 

i'm off work this week and was playing until around 5am this morning. for the last hour i had the most fun in pvp i've had in a few weeks. granted i've just hit 50 so i'm now dealing with different companions, but of the 3 warzone matches, one was a very narrow defeat, one was a very narrow victory, and one was a whitewash win. the narrow defeat was WAY more fun than the easy victory.

[buffgfc]

Trust me I like the challenge but I hate most pugs with a passion, most are bads and do things that I hate. Last night in a voidstar I sapped a trooper and started to plant on the second door which we needed to win and I was going to get it until along comes this pug who breaks the CC...things like this happens all the time which is why I like to play with people with above average intelligence.

 

If pugs had somewhat of a clue then I think these posts would die out quickly. When I solo queue its not like I play any different its just that there are masses of players who cannot grasp the most simplistic of tasks in warzones like calling out incs, not over committing, identifying and focusing key targets and be able to do this and maintain some sort of objective play.

 

so go premade vs premade. simples.

 

agree with the stupidity argument though, like people fighting 5m away from someone capturing an objective instead of just hitting the guy doing the capturing

[cycao]

so go premade vs premade. simples.

 

agree with the stupidity argument though, like people fighting 5m away from someone capturing an objective instead of just hitting the guy doing the capturing

 

I'm all for group v group if they could get something to work right. I think having groups of 2, 3 and 4 man groups could cause some delays but I would be down for a system. Until then I will "pug stomp" even though I rarely face an 8 man pug.

[buffgfc]

I'm all for group v group if they could get something to work right. I think having groups of 2, 3 and 4 man groups could cause some delays but I would be down for a system. Until then I will "pug stomp" even though I rarely face an 8 man pug.

 

i've noticed a big improvement since i hit 50. the matches have been much closer, either we've had a few guys on my team as a premade group or the quality of my teammates is just generally better. i've never seen more than 2 guys from the same guild in my team since i hit 50, and they were both daft, but then i don't think all the premades i came up against pre 50 were in the same guild so that doesn't tell me anything.

 

i don't even think it should be SOLELY group vs group and pug vs pug, it should just be weighted that groups are more likely to be matched against groups if possible. there's quite the feeling of accomplishment when you come up against an obvious premade and still win, and it's when you are in a close but high quality match that you actually learn a few things instead of just constantly facing people at your own level or not as good as you

[foxmob]

Listen the argument is "by allowing matches between grossly mismatched teams, the entire experience isn't fun". That argument is completely valid, and I agree with it. Where I take exception is that in advocating for splitting queues, all the solo queue people are more than happy to consign more average skill premades to the full wrath and fury of those same elite premades they are so anxious to escape. And don't forget that in a split queue it's much more likely a guild will get a full double premade (whose killing time waiting for a ranked pop) facing off against two to three casual premades. That's going to be just as lopsided a match as anything the solo queuers complain about, and the chance of successfully queue dodging is correspondingly slim. It makes a group queue have the same high bar of entry that ranked already has, which leads to no pops. Which leads to those elite teams going down into morass of regular queues to once again destroy those players who are so much less skilled than they are..

ok. I can see that, and you raise a very good point. there is no way to completely rectify both issues, but I would note that solos could (and would) still enter the grp Q. what a separate Q does is gives everyone an equal opportunity (i.e., random chance) at team composition. most solos would prefer that to the current system because, in my experience, an opponent team comprised of solo pugs is never a brutal matchup (outside of hb, which we all know will tilt the field for class comp reasons).

 

on the other hand, solo Q only ensures the same chance as everyone else that you will play on a good or bad team. it does not actually address matchmaking (as you say). so it's not a great matchmaking fix. it's a pool fix. the problem with matchmaking fixes is...they're more difficult to create. tanks are a luxury. healers are a necessity. half the toons in the game can swap specs or pretend to fulfill a role that they, in actuality, do not. and ppl need to stop crying for x-server. there will only be ONE swtor server by the time (if ever) it is implemented.

[Arlanon]

if people would l2p their wz quality would improve both pug and premade

[L-RANDLE]

if people would l2p their wz quality would improve both pug and premade

 

Not truer words have been spoken...

 

 

 

You should point them in the direction of your sig line... I still lol everytime....

[DarthBloodloss]

There's no point of a new system just so you can pass the buck to someone else.

 

You want to solo queue and not fight premades, so you force all pre-mades to only fight against other pre-mades. You just screwed over anyone who is a casual PvPer and likes to queue with friends.

 

Pass the buck to them. You don't like how the system affects you, so you propose a system to screw other people instead. Whats the point of that? I'm fully on board with the concept of better matchmaking, but this isn't the way to do it.

 

The real way would be to (something along these lines) keep track of wins/losses and match opponents based on recent activity. Winners vs Winners, Losers vs Losers. Throw a few recent winners on 1 team, and the rest of the recent winners on the other team. Then spread out the recent losers.

 

The system cannot be based on pre-made, gear, valor, etc. It has to account for skill, which can only be tracked via results.

Edited April 3, 2013 by DarthBloodloss

[bsbrad]

The easiest solution to this is to match people based on Valor rank.

 

Lets say you have a premade with Valor ranks 100, 90, 75, 50 and a bunch of PUGs at around 50 then make the 8 players opposing them have an average Valor rank of arounf 65.

 

This will at least match similar players on both sides. Or when the queue pops and you are asked whether you want to enter the WZ Bioware could inform you of the average Valor rank of the ppl that were sent invitations thereby you could decline if for instance you are a Valor 50 and the average is 80 and you dont want to get constantly rolled.

 

Valor ranks are the only useful metrics in this game for PVP as the higher the rank the higher likelyhood that the person behind the rank will be better geared/skilled.

[cycao]

The easiest solution to this is to match people based on Valor rank.

 

Lets say you have a premade with Valor ranks 100, 90, 75, 50 and a bunch of PUGs at around 50 then make the 8 players opposing them have an average Valor rank of arounf 65.

 

This will at least match similar players on both sides. Or when the queue pops and you are asked whether you want to enter the WZ Bioware could inform you of the average Valor rank of the ppl that were sent invitations thereby you could decline if for instance you are a Valor 50 and the average is 80 and you dont want to get constantly rolled.

 

Valor ranks are the only useful metrics in this game for PVP as the higher the rank the higher likelyhood that the person behind the rank will be better geared/skilled.

 

Valor means nothing other than time played and it should be treated as such. Think about someone with an alt who has a full set of gear waiting for them via legacy gear when they hit 50, soon to be 55. If anything the solo queue should take into account a gear level and place them accordingly.

[DarthBloodloss]

Can't use gear level either. You could just put on bad gear when you queue and then change once the game starts.

 

It should be your record in last 3 or 5 games. Everyone who's on a 5 game win streak should not be matched up against people on a 5 game losing streak. Regardless of gear or valor, those teams are not balanced.

 

Split up the recent winners and recent losers evenly between both teams. In the case of a premade with all 4 people being on a 5 game win streak.....it should be sure that the next best 4 players (based on recent win rate) are on the other team.

Edited April 3, 2013 by DarthBloodloss

[cycao]

Can't use gear level either. You could just put on bad gear when you queue and then change once the game starts.

 

It should be your record in last 3 or 5 games. Everyone who's on a 5 game win streak should not be matched up against people on a 5 game losing streak. Regardless of gear or valor, those teams are not balanced.

 

Some recent winners and some recent losers on each team could possibly be the most fair way.

 

Agreed on gear, they could make it so you cannot switch gear in the warzone but doing it based off of you recent W/L ration could work just as well if not better. Mini brackets.

[bsbrad]

Valor should be legacy wide and I can guarantee you that ppl with Valor 100 are running around with EWH min-maxed. At least on Begeren Colony they are.

 

Also a Valor 100 character should know all the strats/tactics of the zone if not then they will be the one getting rolled.

 

The problem with win/loss records is that a highly skilled player can just spend the entire match rolling people but not going after objectives just to keep their win/loss record low so they don't have to play against the big boys as all of the WZs are objective based and other than AH you dont get points for kills.

[ebado]

Agreed on gear, they could make it so you cannot switch gear in the warzone but doing it based off of you recent W/L ration could work just as well if not better. Mini brackets.

 

Just make normal level 50 warzones track like ranked does and match accordingly. I know some will want to scream about how terrible elitist evildoers would ostracize them if there was a rating for normal warzones, but that doesn't really matter.

Edited April 3, 2013 by ebado

[DarthBloodloss]

Valor should be legacy wide and I can guarantee you that ppl with Valor 100 are running around with EWH min-maxed. At least on Begeren Colony they are.

 

Also a Valor 100 character should know all the strats/tactics of the zone if not then they will be the one getting rolled.

 

The problem with win/loss records is that a highly skilled player can just spend the entire match rolling people but not going after objectives just to keep their win/loss record low so they don't have to play against the big boys as all of the WZs are objective based and other than AH you dont get points for kills.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I do think that scenario is unrealistic. Who's gonna log on with the intention of winning several WZs and then losing a few on purpose?

 

Also, even with 5 losses in a row, you'll still be playing against the big boys. Having a bad "recent record" does not exclude you from WZ matches. It simply helps determine if you are on team A or B. If you have a bad record, you are likely the #12 thru #16 best person in the warzone (out of 16) and are used as filler once the winning records have been equally separated.

Edited April 3, 2013 by DarthBloodloss

[cycao]

Valor should be legacy wide and I can guarantee you that ppl with Valor 100 are running around with EWH min-maxed. At least on Begeren Colony they are.

 

Also a Valor 100 character should know all the strats/tactics of the zone if not then they will be the one getting rolled.

 

The problem with win/loss records is that a highly skilled player can just spend the entire match rolling people but not going after objectives just to keep their win/loss record low so they don't have to play against the big boys as all of the WZs are objective based and other than AH you dont get points for kills.

 

You could be the worse player to ever step foot in a warzone and proudly wear an elite warlord tag. Valor does not have anything to do with skill. There will be loopholes in any system but valor is as useful as a white crayon.

[DarthBloodloss]

There will be loopholes in any system

 

This is the key right here. This one statement is the answer to why this thread is so long hehe

[Luco-Zade]

Valor is really the easiest way to bring this problem under enough of control to stop threads like this.

 

Its easy to ***** and moan about premades, but, as has been stated previously, they arent all elitist PUG stompers. For the ones that arent its 50/50 you come up against a better PUG and i have seen both sides of this argument far to many times to count. For the people that make a premade for the sole purpose of epeen enhancing/PUG stomping borderline griefing then surely BW can put some kind of cap on composition to prevent these guys running 5 smash 3 healer varieties, make premades over 4 people in regular warzones require a group finder type selection of who is what by class/adv class. 4 man and under premades arent that much of a problem, plenty of times ive joined a WZ and you get these 4 trying to roflstomp only to get sent back with tails tucked and then spend the rest of the match node camping.

 

Using Valor as a further filter is the easiest way, with higher valor comes experience of warzones, knowledge of what works what doesnt who to primary etc etc ad nauseum.

 

They dont even have to be frequent plateaus, make it every 5 valor levels in lowbie and then every 10-15 in eldergame, this would prevent m/m EWH roflstompers running round butchering fresh 50's in recruit and only half WH.

 

This also makes the grind work for everyone, the less grind youve done the lower your valor the less your experience the less skilled players you get matched with. As you progress to gear and valor levels and with it the included experience to be able to function effectively within a better skilled pug.

 

There will, however, always be those who just wanna go cowboy for usually no reason whatsoever, poor wz performance means lower Valor gain and more time they spend in a rut.

 

It also helps to usher in fresh 50's to pvp without scaring them off after the first clash of teams at a node.

 

Its not rocket surgery, think of the solution and quit ************ about the problem.

 

There are also ways to not turn every PUG/premade engagement into a waste of time.

 

- You could guard a node with 1 or 2 other people gaining coms that way to better your gear.

- You can switch spec to try a different way of playing until your gear and experience increases.

- You can roll another toon that has a different role than you and return to your first when you feel you have the experience to utilise that toon to a higher standard.

- Use the time to run aimlessly around the WZ learning every nook and cranny and powerup location for later use

- Try some out of the box thinking to try and gain an advantage via guile and tactics instead of brute force.

 

The list goes on, i have found that most people who complain about premades are not fond of having to put in much effort to win the WZ HOWEVER, i will concede the point that some premades are so grossly geared that nothing can stop a roflstomp.

 

Also, splitting Valor tiers up means new players can take time to learn at their own pace as their results determine Valor gain. How would many have reacted if you got thrown straight into champion/elite mob the moment your starter planet loaded?

 

You gotta let people learn in their own way without having someone force their views as soon as the WZ loads, once they learn and they know the law of the land then the only way is up.

 

Luco

[ebado]

Valor is really the easiest way to bring this problem under enough of control to stop threads like this.

 

It might be easy but it's a pretty dumb way to do it. Using valor to bracket matches is using a time-based mechanic to solve performance or results-based concerns. It would seem more logical to use performance or results based mechanics to solve such concerns.

[SuperGrunt]

This "honest post" is nothing more than the caricatured representation of partisan ideologues who refuse to accept that Groups have as equal claims to the Queue as the apparently impressively skilled but inexplicably unsuccessful pug players.

 

The reality is that, no matter the content of your complaints, this is a social game in which PVP is centered upon group engagements. It is designed for group-play and Bioware is not going to restrict friends from grouping together for non-rated War Zones.

 

Neither are they going to dilute the PVP population through yet another layer after the new bracketing system is in place in 2.0.

 

I find it interesting that, according to this thread, Premades are ubiquitous on the opposition team but apparently never on your teams, they are so skilled as to single-handedly win each and every War Zone they enter but are staffed with unskilled players incapable of competing had they Queued alone and are also so ubiquitous in the Queue that they ruin nearly every PVP session and yet represent such a minority of the population that their concerns should be subsumed under that of the casual solo-pugger.

 

It is amazing how these arguments are logically incompatible and internally inconsistent and yet are repeatedly offered as proof that "Premades are Ruining" the game.

 

That tends to indicate something to me about the reality behind the motives of those arguing that people playing with groups of friends in an MMO are somehow a problem.

 

Funny how you need quotes around honest post. Guess it's not truly an honest post.

 

Listen you want to group up with friends go right ahead, and in your pre made group you might see more pre made groups than you do groups with no 2 same guild names. But honestly, it seems every time I solo queue, I see 4+ of the same guild name on the other side. This is ridiculous, that we have to have an argument here on the forums that a group that is 1/2 the size of the entire team on either side of a WZ would have a noticeable advantage in a WZ. Quite honestly I don't give a frack what your argument is, it's 100% bull.

 

You want to group with friends then fine do that, but don't say that you almost always go up against another pre made, or that pre mades aren't ruining the fun that other people have in PVP. You should also want to go up against other like equipped and similarly organized groups. So you should either be agreeing with us that Groups have no place in unranked WZs running against pure PUG groups, either groups need a separate unranked queue or they need to be removed from unranked so that you unranked is what it is meant to be.

 

If Bioware doesn't do something to fix this situation where a group of 4 EWH a-holes dominate the unranked WZ queues then pre mades are going to drive people away from PVP, and eventually those of use that still want to PVP are going to go find another game to play.

[Luco-Zade]

It might be easy but it's a pretty dumb way to do it. Using valor to bracket matches is using a time-based mechanic to solve performance or results-based concerns. It would seem more logical to use performance or results based mechanics to solve such concerns.

 

Because that works so well for class balancing

 

Valor is the easiest, not the best or most intelligent/imaginative.

 

It scales the current problem back a decent amount, maybe enough to keep it under control, sure the plateaus might need tweaking, but still it has more going for it than against imo

Edited April 3, 2013 by Luco-Zade

[ebado]

Because that works so well for class balancing

 

OK. Then let's use the valor example: balance classes according to valor. Sounds really dumb right? Barely makes sense? I guess you can see where I'm coming from.

 

Valor is the easiest, not the best or most intelligent/imaginative.

 

It scales the current problem back a decent amount, maybe enough to keep it under control, sure the plateaus might need tweaking, but still it has more going for it than against imo

 

I'm not even sure it's the easiest. There's already a mechanic tracking ranked warzones and providing a rating in the game. Pretty simple to adapt that to normals. And it actually brings results into account, which, I know, is absolutely crazy.

[Luco-Zade]

OK. Then let's use the valor example: balance classes according to valor. Sounds really dumb right? Barely makes sense? I guess you can see where I'm coming from.

 

you misunderstand, i wasnt meaning use Valor to balance class, it was meant as a snide comment on Smash and Snipers getting buffs when they 2 of the most powerful and prevalent examples of PvP

[DroidDreamer]

No. I like to run WZs with my friends. You can coordinate better that way and pull of some great stuff in Huttball.

 

Also, when I am a pugger, I like being teamed up with premades.

 

I'm sure others feel the same. Keep playing and getting better. Eventually you'll find a good group to play with.