Has 2.0...

[JohnElias]

...changed anything regarding class composition in a Ranked team?

 

Currently my guild stacks 2 Pyrotech PTs, 1 Lethality Sniper, Carnage Marauder, Jugg Tank, Assassin Tank, Sorc Healer and Operative Healer.

 

I understand things aren't set in stone, and other teams may do extremely well with a Sorc DPS or Merc Healer on their Ranked team, but as a general agreement, will 2.0 allow underperforming* classes to be welcomed into a Ranked environment?

 

What are your Opinions? I would love to play my Lethality Operative in Ranked but I do understand that Operative DPS isn't welcomed in Ranked currently on Live, therefore I have rerolled a favored DPS class, but I am curious if 2.0 has changed anything...

 

I'd love to start using a Merc in our Ranked, my friend himself plays a nasty Merc and I would bring him to Ranked any day!

 

 

 

* Underperforming according to the Forums.

[Atramar]

since bubble stun is gone, your team would drop sorc for another op healer (as they got quality of life buff) - but with their 10 sec immortality bubble who knows.

Snipers got mobility buffs (and damage)... imo so many changes, it may spread AC around ranked a little. less '2 pyro, 2 smashers, 1 sin, 1 jugg tank, 1 operativ healer and 1 bubble sorc - or else you die'

 

you will still need 1 Sin to guard, 1 jugg to guard main healer, and mara for speed buff, but rest will be more arguable (I think, hard to test since so many 800k hp rats @ss on PTS)

[NoTomorrow]

Well, sniper is definetely not in a worse position to grab an RWZ spot in 2.0. I see room for every spec to shine based on what the team needs the sniper to do.

 

There is a high chance to lethality becoming a mandatory tank killer spec 2.0 RWZ. Either operative or sniper. Carnage, Pyrotech, Rage these all will have relatively worse performance against tanks compared to lethality due to shield changes.

Edited February 26, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[ArchangelLBC]

Impossible to truly test atm given the bolster bug.

 

I'd say Pyro PT is even stronger than on live all things considered. Carnage mara is a bit weaker on the front loaded burst, but you bring them for predation buff anyway so this might be a non-issue.

 

The biggest questions are how shield changes etc. really affect the meta. It might very well make Lethality Operative a very much wanted tank buster, and my understanding is that operative is in a much better place in 2.0 than on live, but I don't play the class so you'd have to ask a good operative how the score stands on that point.

 

Merc is also too early to tell. The new changes might be enough but we need a lot more warzone testing against competent PVPers and unfortunately the bolster bug precludes any of that mess.

[NoTomorrow]

Problem is, gunnery attacks are now all shielded.

[Tankqull]

don´t think so.

Operative/scoundrel:

- dps: simply cannot compeed with a vanguard/PT as a main singel target dps source. (2x vang/pt spot is safe)

- cannot provide speed as sents/marauders (1x marauder/sent spot is safe)

- nodeguard even nerfed sins/shades still provide by far more durability to provide reinforcements (sin/shade as nodeguard is quite safe some team might aswell slot a sniper/slinger for that position)

leaving only the forth dps slot empty wich will be filled with either a superb ae source aka smashbot or a range dps wich will be a sniper/slinger due to the changes to them)

 

same counts fpr merc/commandos as dps.

[NoTomorrow]

Contrary to popular belief, snipers will never take over the node guarding role. The stealth detection can be discarded completely as a viable tool at delaying the capture from stealthers.

 

Also i wouldn't discard the lethality operatives. The DPS against tanks of Pyrotech has been reduced compared to lethality.

Edited February 26, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[Carter_Mathis]

Problem is, gunnery attacks are now all shielded.

 

I wouldn't really base who should be brought into ranked by whose attacks can be shielded, since 99% or ranked isn't burning the tank-geared tank

[NoTomorrow]

I wouldn't really base who should be brought into ranked by whose attacks can be shielded, since 99% or ranked isn't burning the tank-geared tank

 

That would be the job of 3 other DPSers, most probably specced into some high burst DPS spec, but that can be mitigated by tanks.

[Tankqull]

That would be the job of 3 other DPSers, most probably specced into some high burst DPS spec, but that can be mitigated by tanks.

 

nah -elemental dmg by vanguard/pt + guaranteed crit on rail shot/high impact bolt will still be impossible to be mitigated by tanks - thanks to the defense mechaniks ...

[NoTomorrow]

Thermal Detonatator can be shielded if doesnt crit and mitigated by armor

Rocket punch can be be shielded if doesnt crit and mitigated by armor

Rail shot can be dodged (defense stat), partly mitigated by armor and shielded if it doesn't crit.

 

I will bet that Lethality will kill a tank much faster than Pyrotech in 2.0.

Edited February 26, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[Atramar]

nah -elemental dmg by vanguard/pt + guaranteed crit on rail shot/high impact bolt will still be impossible to be mitigated by tanks - thanks to the defense mechaniks ...

 

well, railshot can still be dodged, but same goes for ticks of cull white damage.

[ArchangelLBC]

Problem is, gunnery attacks are now all shielded.

 

The tanking changes have changed the entire meta in ways we can't begin to understand now since bolster is borked. Still I don't see filling out a team completely with tank busting lethality agents, so the fact that gunnery can be shielded is the least of it's problems.

 

The real questions for Commando (of any spec) are:

1) Is Electro net a useful enough utility on its own to justify bringing a commando to ranked? The actual utility is great but the cooldown is sucky so I don't know yet. Combat Sents can justify their spot almost solely because of the transcendence buff, but transcendence has no cooldown, and that utility actually got buffed in 2.0 since introspection gives you centering now (no more clearing a node with 28 centering and needing to rotate but not being able to use transcendence).

 

2) Are commandos able to do their main job (whether it be healing for CM or DPS for Gunnery/Assault) well in comparison to other classes? DPS commandos lack any kind of warzone utility atm which already makes them a liability but they also have real problems getting out their damage against good teams which can shut them down. Will the changes to gunnery or assault (or baseline trooper) change this enough that you aren't bringing a commando solely for a once every 90s cooldown? I don't know needs more testing. Even if the shielding changes make the damage less useful, it's a moot point if we can't get that damage out to be shielded anyway.

 

For healers the question will be do the new healing changes and utility give commando healers any kind of edge over scoundrel or sage healers? I never play heals so I won't begin to speculate on this.

 

If the answer to both questions is "yes", then you might see commando become a ranked viable class. If the answer to the second is "no" and the answer to the first is "sorta" then we're kinda status quo ante as far as ranked goes, but we'll be more annoying in normal warzones.

 

well, railshot can still be dodged, but same goes for ticks of cull white damage.

 

My understanding is crits trump everything. I.e. you can't dodge a critical hit.

Edited February 26, 2013 by ArchangelLBC

[Atramar]

My understanding is crits trump everything. I.e. you can't dodge a critical hit.

 

you can't shield crit, you can dodge it.

 

first roll is accuracy vs dodge, then if not missed roll crit, then if not crit it's shield roll.

[BanetheDarkLord]

As NoTomorrow has said, Operative/Scoundrel DPS using the Leth/DF specs are going to now be more valuable. With Exfiltrate and Stealth, that tank busting or high dps that a Sniper Leth provided is now on the move, faster and obviously stealthed. With the new Fatality proc (60% chance for Shiv to proc Fatality which will cause Cull to regrant a TA and cause no energy) Operatives might be able to pump out more damage than Sniper Leth overall. I've been waiting for awhile to switch my Operative from heals to DPS if they ever fix TA generation for Lethality, so I'm pretty excited for 2.0.

 

Operative DPS, out of all the classes not already in ranked teams, is probably the biggest up for consideration to join the "good composition" ACs.

Edited February 26, 2013 by BanetheDarkLord

[ArchangelLBC]

you can't shield crit, you can dodge it.

 

first roll is accuracy vs dodge, then if not missed roll crit, then if not crit it's shield roll.

 

Thanks for clearing that up ^^

[funkiestj]

you can't shield crit, you can dodge it.

 

first roll is accuracy vs dodge, then if not missed roll crit, then if not crit it's shield roll.

 

Correct.

 

as a practical matter, crit only pushed shield chance down if

 

crit + shield > 100%

 

This only happens when an AC uses an ability (sniper/slinger) or procs an auto-crit. That leaves a lot of damage that is still shielded.

Edited February 26, 2013 by funkiestj