Does sniper have any counter now?

[cycao]

Honestly snipers have been op like this from launch, I was like (sorry for cliche) diamond in the rough once I got followthrough, I felt like I wasnt having fun because people ran away. And when they sat infront of me, then I would unless 3 series of shots and lulz would ensue

 

Im not saying they are op but they are not has hard to play if you have a clue. Most people seem to understand that there are no classes are hard to play in this game and sniper is no different. Its probably the next class I will roll since I still need the agent buff.

[NoTomorrow]

Yes, stealth detection is yet another proactive defense.

yes it is. against bad stealthers. it's designed to punish bad players that just happen move randomly in front of the frontal viewing cone of the sniper. I bet my money that somebody like Cycao if he needs to open on a sniper undetected, he will just do that.

 

Honestly snipers have been op like this from launch, I was like (sorry for cliche) diamond in the rough once I got followthrough, I felt like I wasnt having fun because people ran away. And when they sat infront of me, then I would unless 3 series of shots and lulz would ensue

 

The idea behind sniper is that you can negate their damage by LoSing them. For this reason they have been given the tools to be actually powerful in direct firefight. They would be no point in playing a sniper if you cannot win a cat'n'mouse fight and cannot win a direct fight either.

 

The entire Sniper gameplay is based arround "catching" players in line of sight that have overcommitted or overestimated their chances of survival or their DPS race capabilities.

 

I admit that there are some considerations about MM vs Arsenal. 2 turret specs, where on live servers the sniper will just whipe the floor with the merc. He is just uncapable to match-up our DPS and burst. At the same time there is no meaningful explanation of why an Arsenal merc is supposed to lose to an MM sniper if they are basically supposed to be good at the same stuff.

 

If these guys are getting buffed so they can be a match for us, kudos to them and kudos to bioware. Until them i will just do my job and kill whatever my team needs to be killed.

Edited February 24, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[MusicRider]

The idea behind sniper is that you can negate their damage by LoSing them. For this reason they have been given the tools to be actually powerful in direct firefight. They would be no point in playing a sniper if you cannot win a cat'n'mouse fight and cannot win a direct fight either.

 

If only warzones were 1v1. Also strangely enough I have the same problem with my toons, when someone is out of my LOS I can't seem to hit him.

[WaldoA]

I still love finding Snipers on my Sorcerer when Madness spec'd. Can easily DoT then run behind an object to heal or just stand and watch their health drop.

[MusicRider]

Im not saying they are op but they are not has hard to play if you have a clue. Most people seem to understand that there are no classes are hard to play in this game and sniper is no different. Its probably the next class I will roll since I still need the agent buff.

 

You should. In lowbie pvp there is an increase of slingers and snipers. Had a game with 5 on my team and one against 4. If that's not a signal of happy days to come then not sure what is it.

[Knockerz]

there are no hard counters to them

people claim LOS is a killer but any good sniper/gunslinger will simply leave cover and move.

rotations for keeping melee away are simple and become easier with 2.0

just like the people that claim that bubble stun is fine, people claiming LOS is a killer are the people who are trying to make sure they are able to keep themselves from meeting a nerf hammer.

all we are seeing right now is this class becoming the new FOTM with more and more in WZs.

 

i think simply making them interruptable while they are in cover would make me happy. that way when i do manage to get in close to one i can stand a chance of killing them before im knocked back all over again.

 

Basically, what you want is caster that you can just train an interrupt train on like you can on tele or lightning sages/sorcers or commandos/mercs? That's why no one plays those specs in pvp. The counter to snipers is another range class, ideally another sniper. It's the same concept like a sentinel you counter with another sentinel. You can use a jugg or powertech, but obviously if you bring a sentinel against a sentinel with equal gear, then it's highly likely at end of the fight the sentinel left standing will be nearly dead.

 

As I mention best way to deal with a sniper is to use range against them, but guess what most players want to play melee cause every one knows melee is better in pvp than range overall. That's why warzones are full of juggs/guardians, shadow/assassins, sentinels/maras, powertechs/vanguards, and so forth. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that snipers by the sound it every melee doesn't like because their native counters aren't played in warzones for the very reason you are suggesting.. Nerfing snipers as you suggest will effectively make this game melee dominate in every aspect of pvp. Before you run off ans say I want an op sniper, I do play all those melee classes in pvp and fact my best geared characters are juggs/guardian, powertech, sentinel, and assassin. However, I do have a sniper that occasionally play.

 

As for los it can works well, but it can also not be very effective. It depends on the position of the sniper and his target. If the sniper decides not to move and just acquire another target there isn't much los will do and since most pvp players play a melee it's makes it easy for a sniper to just pick another target and melee can't exactly los if there in the middle of the field. However, if the sniper is close by a corner you can los and pop back to do damage taking minimum amount of damage. This is against a markmen spec. As for chasing a player and moving a lot isn't what a sniper is about. You don't wan to move around much since you don't do a lot of damage since your not in cover to do your heavy hits. Chasing is left for melee to do. Although occasionally it might be tactical to move, but as I mention moving is not some thing a sniper wants to do. However, you can kite like when your heavy abilities are on cd you can knock back and move away then root to give your cd's more time to reset. Against a melee the longer the fight draws out the more likely you will kill them since you do more damage per ability vs them with you in cover and melee cd's are longer like the stuns, camo ect.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Knockerz

[MusicRider]

I still love finding Snipers on my Sorcerer when Madness spec'd. Can easily DoT then run behind an object to heal or just stand and watch their health drop.

 

Yeah me too. I even take my lunch also cause the dots will kill them in about 2mins. I just love it.

[PoliteAssasin]

Lol this guy seriously thinks his class is that good. You can Knockback, root, and stun all you like, that still isn't going to save you. But I guess you figure that if you convince others you can it makes you feel better? Don't let me stop you lol. Oh, and the suggestion that you can kite on a sniper. Edited February 24, 2013 by PoliteAssasin

[Knockerz]

Yeah me too. I even take my lunch also cause the dots will kill them in about 2mins. I just love it.

 

Dot sorcerers and sages work really well against them, but a good healer will negate dot damage since it's not burst damage, which is what kills in pvp. A dot sorcerer or sage is the sniper counter in 1v1 without a healer. The problem is there aren't many geared dot sorcerers or sages. I play on bastion and harginger and I only seen a few that are geared and play a dot sorcerer/sage in random warzones. They are about as rare as geared dps commandos/mercs.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Knockerz

[NoTomorrow]

You should. In lowbie pvp there is an increase of slingers and snipers. Had a game with 5 on my team and one against 4. If that's not a signal of happy days to come then not sure what is it.

 

most of them finish their sniper career when they reach 50 never actually making it into 50 pvp.

[Knockerz]

Lol this guy seriously thinks his class is that good. You can Knockback, root, and stun all you like, that still isn't going to save you. But I guess you figure that if you convince others you can it makes you feel better? Don't let me stop you lol. Oh, and the suggestion that you can kite on a sniper.

 

It's fun to do that to melee, but a better counter is just to bring one of the op melee jugg/guardian, sentinel, or powertech to even the playing field. I rather that sniper be more like wow hunter so that you could effectively kite a melee like you can in wow, referring to the old hunter that used mana not the focus type. You can do a little kiting in swtor, but not a whole lot. At least not the same extent you can with an old school bc hunter from wow.

[Knockerz]

You should. In lowbie pvp there is an increase of slingers and snipers. Had a game with 5 on my team and one against 4. If that's not a signal of happy days to come then not sure what is it.

 

They said the same thing when i was leveling my sniper lol.

 

 

most of them finish their sniper career when they reach 50 never actually making it into 50 pvp.

 

I'm not sure about the 50 part, but there aren't many snipers at 50 and even less in rated warzones. It's just a lot of the usual jugs/guardians, powertech/vanguards, shadow/assassin, sentinel/mara for dps and for healers bubble spec sage/sorcers or a operative/smuggler healer. Occasionally, you see a sniper with dps commando/mercs and sage/sorcerers being rarer. I'm referring only to geared players not some new recruit that only plays for a two or three weeks then quits.

[PoliteAssasin]

It's fun to do that to melee, but a better counter is just to bring one of the op melee jugg/guardian, sentinel, or powertech to even the playing field. I rather that sniper be more like wow hunter so that you could effectively kite a melee like you can in wow, referring to the old hunter that used mana not the focus type. You can do a little kiting in swtor, but not a whole lot. At least not the same extent you can with an old school bc hunter from wow.

 

Standing still we still kill you. If you try to kite us? It makes it even easier.

[Knockerz]

Standing still we still kill you. If you try to kite us? It makes it even easier.

 

Perhaps you can post a video showing a 1 vs 1 without a pocket healer following you around against a competent sniper on your server. In this regard, I like arenas since you can clearly see what counters what when there is a 1 vs 1 situation or 2 vs 1 situation with the healers dead. In many of your youtube link videos are group premades, which show group pvp, but what's in question is the effectiveness of melee vs a sniper in 1 vs 1 or in group settings without pocket healers. Otherwise, I agree that in general melee will have superiority.

 

My guess is that melee in the future will have their abilities tone down in much the same way warriors in wow were toned down. In bc warriors had the 75 percent damage reduction shield wall, spell reflect, intercept, charge, 50 percent mortal strike , which reduce healing by 50 percent. Now at moment sentinels, maras, juggs, and guardians are in a good position, but if history repeats it self maras/sentinels and juggs/guardians will slowly be toned down like warriors were watered down. They can no longer swap gear instantly and shield wall only works around 35 percent or less can't remember, mortal strike reduce to like 25 percent and can only intercept or charge, they share a cd. However, it took nearly two expansion for warrior's to end up the way they did. Usually the big nerfs occur at start of an expansion or during a major patch. Just have to wait and see how things play out with 2.0. From reading these boards it appears assassin/shadow were the first to get hit by the nerfbat. I guess you can't have stealth without sacrificing some thing.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Knockerz

[Smashbrother]

I actually already did. Dueling is one thing I'm big on, can't assess an individuals skill without fighting them in a pure 1v1. Dueled my servers best sniper, he tried all 3 specs and still couldn't beat me. I have an answer for everything they're going to throw my way. Its not skill, its just class counters.

 

You make it seem like I'm drawing my conclusion base on warzone encounters, when in fact its the snipers who fight people who are unaware or without cooldowns and figure they're that classes counter.

 

 

 

The poster above has it right. They're good for support, but 1v1s they do terrible.

 

Post video.

[PoliteAssasin]

Perhaps you can post a video showing a 1 vs 1 without a pocket healer following you around against a competent sniper on your server. In this regard, I like arenas since you can clearly see what counters what when there is a 1 vs 1 situation or 2 vs 1 situation with the healers dead. In many of your youtube link videos are group premades, which show group pvp, but what's in question is the effectiveness of melee vs a sniper in 1 vs 1 or in group settings without pocket healers. Otherwise, I agree that in general melee will have superiority.

 

My guess is that melee in the future will have their abilities tone down in much the same way warriors in wow were toned down. In bc warriors had the 75 percent damage reduction shield wall, spell reflect, intercept, charge, 50 percent mortal strike , which reduce healing by 50 percent. Now at moment sentinels, maras, juggs, and guardians are in a good position, but if history repeats it self maras/sentinels and juggs/guardians will slowly be toned down like warriors were watered down. They can no longer swap gear instantly and shield wall only works around 35 percent or less can't remember, mortal strike reduce to like 25 percent and can only intercept or charge, they share a cd. However, it took nearly two expansion for warrior's to end up the way they did. Usually the big nerfs occur at start of an expansion or during a major patch. Just have to wait and see how things play out with 2.0. From reading these boards it appears assassin/shadow were the first to get hit by the nerfbat. I guess you can't have stealth without sacrificing some thing.

 

Maybe you didn't hear me, I dueled. Dueled. 1v1. The best sniper on my server, all 3 specs and won them all. And I suppose sentinels who don't require pocket heals is a rarity among you pro pvpers, I solo queue and refuse to have the crutch of pocket healers. Now if you perhaps think that every sniper on my server is bad, and would like to prove to me yourself that you can kill sentinels, then when Bioware fixes the exploit and gives us free pvp gear to min/max like the PVE, we can meet up on the PTS and see how you do. Although if your snipers are anything like the terrible sentinels I've fought so far from the "great pvp" servers, I won't be impressed.

 

Oh and those aren't my videos. That's another player, I just happen to be in his video for that smash thing, partly combat. I actually use watchman. You would also do well to notice that none in our group are healers, but the groups we fought use them as crutches and as such died.

 

Post video.

 

You first. I feel no more need to post a video of me defeating a sniper on a 1v1 than I do for a sorc, or a say a Jugg.

Edited February 24, 2013 by PoliteAssasin

[Smashbrother]

 

 

You first. I feel no more need to post a video of me defeating a sniper on a 1v1 than I do for a sorc, or a say a Jugg.

 

You're the one that's claiming snipers are easy to kill on your sent. The burden of proof is on you.

 

If someone claims that the world is flat, they would have to present proof backing their claim, not ask everyone else in the world to present proof the world is round.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Smashbrother

[PoliteAssasin]

You're the one that's claiming snipers are easy to kill on your sent. The burden of proof is on you.

 

If someone claims that the world is flat, they would have to present proof backing their claim, not ask everyone else in the world to present proof the world is round.

 

On the contrary. I'm not the one claiming to be a counter to every class. I already know and listed my limits in class encounters. Unfortunately for you snipers are nowhere near among them. The burden of proof is upon you to prove that you can take down a class that has an answer for every single thing you'll throw at them. Sadly many snipers don't really understand that their class is a support class, not a 1v1 class. You won't beat anyone in a duel unless they're bads, let alone a sentinel.

[Smashbrother]

On the contrary. I'm not the one claiming to be a counter to every class. I already know and listed my limits in class encounters. Unfortunately for you snipers are nowhere near among them. The burden of proof is upon you to prove that you can take down a class that has an answer for every single thing you'll throw at them. Sadly many snipers don't really understand that their class is a support class, not a 1v1 class. You won't beat anyone in a duel unless they're bads, let alone a sentinel.

 

Except you did: "I solo queue 99% of the time, the only reason I have no problems going in alone is because I know how I counter every class I will come across, as I've played them all to lean their weaknesses."

 

Nobody in their right mind thinks snipers counter everything, nor did I ever say that. Please quote me where I did. Snipers are counters to melee though, but get owned by stealth and dot classes that can heal.

 

Post video.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Smashbrother

[NoTomorrow]

Man, why didn't you heed my warnings? I told you. Edited February 24, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[PoliteAssasin]

Except you did: "I solo queue 99% of the time, the only reason I have no problems going in alone is because I know how I counter every class I will come across, as I've played them all to lean their weaknesses."

 

Nobody in their right mind thinks snipers counter everything, nor did I ever say that. Please quote me where I did. Snipers are counters to melee though, but get owned by stealth and dot classes that can heal.

 

Post video.

 

You must have missed the part where I said my counters were tank spec sins/shadows. Selective reading? And no, you don't counter melee. We counter you. Snipers are easy kills, and that's that. Think you can prove me wrong? Then take me up on my challenge. Otherwise keep telling yourself whatever helps you sleep at night. Ill be watchman, and just like the top sniper on my server who thought he was a counter and could kill me, I'll let you try all 3 specs on me.

[Knockerz]

Maybe you didn't hear me, I dueled. Dueled. 1v1. The best sniper on my server, all 3 specs and won them all. And I suppose sentinels who don't require pocket heals is a rarity among you pro pvpers, I solo queue and refuse to have the crutch of pocket healers. Now if you perhaps think that every sniper on my server is bad, and would like to prove to me yourself that you can kill sentinels, then when Bioware fixes the exploit and gives us free pvp gear to min/max like the PVE, we can meet up on the PTS and see how you do. Although if your snipers are anything like the terrible sentinels I've fought so far from the "great pvp" servers, I won't be impressed.

 

 

 

 

You first. I feel no more need to post a video of me defeating a sniper on a 1v1 than I do for a sorc, or a say a Jugg.

 

Only axioms are accepted without proof. Statements without proof are like defense attorney's without evidence. You have no leg to stand on without video proof. It's not like in wow where players reach rank 1 or participated in cash tournaments with tens of thousands of dollars on the line.

[PoliteAssasin]

Only axioms are accepted without proof. Statements without proof are like defense attorney's without evidence. You have no leg to stand on without video proof. It's not like in wow where players reach rank 1 or participated in cash tournaments with tens of thousands of dollars on the line.

 

The proof is my experience in warzones, duels, my class abilities, and my challenge to the snipers from pvp servers who seem to think they have an advantage over us. But let me ask you, where is your video proof fighting a competent sentinel? Your argument goes both ways.

Edited February 24, 2013 by PoliteAssasin

[Knockerz]

The proof is my experience in warzones, duels, my class abilities, and my challenge to the snipers from pvp servers who seem to think they have an advantage over us. But let me ask you, where is your video proof fighting a competent sentinel? Your argument goes both ways.

 

I'm not making a factual statements, my comments are my opinion about the topic of this thread. The use of the word "I" is big marker that it's my opinion. Unless you want to retract your statements and say it's your opinion, then that is acceptable. However, statements present as fact require proof or by definition are opinions.

[PoliteAssasin]

The fact is that my class has numerous abilities that I get to pick and choose to destroy your class, and some are interchangeable. It requires knowledge of both classes in order to comprehend apparently. Snipers may kill the average sentinel in a warzone due to a variety of factors, but try that with a competent one, or if you're feeling lucky a duel. 1v1s for multiple class encounters is something that I've studied for quite some time, and excel at. You're not going to tell me snipers are my counter when every fight I've had with them strongly suggests otherwise. Its not me boasting of skill vs them, its simple class matchup which ensures their defeat. Even with the new cover roll, it still won't be an issue taking the class down.