Sith_Kingpin Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Location: Coruscant Senate building. Weapons: Lightsabers and Force powers only (no outside help from Seperatist droids or Republic clones) Do you think the two Sith Lords and the assassin Ventress could topple Darth Sidous? Or, do you think Palpatine would take all 3 given the circumstances? It's an interesting one, but I'd go with Palpatine on this. I made the battle 3 vs 1 because I thought Palpatine would take any 2 on the list with ease. Also, this battle would differ a lot from the Jedi Masters + Mace Windu vs Palpatine as they just tried to arrest the Chancellor, whereas Sith take no prisoners and would fight to kill him by any means necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Ventress dies within seconds. Maul and Dooku, being Sidious' apprentices, could last some times. But at one point Maul will make a mistake and Sidious cut's him in half. Dooku saber skills could compete with Sidious, since his style is Makashi, which is good against single, lightsaber using opponents. But once Maul is gone, Sidious will overwhelm Dooku with Force attacks. Btw. configurations like this are exactly the reason why Bane started the Rule of Two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Ventress is pretty much a non-factor in this, she is more of a liability really against Sidious. Maul and Dooku just die soon after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith_Kingpin Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 I agree with you all and think Sidous would be the victor. So, let's up the ante. Ventress has 2 lightsabers, Maul has a double-bladed lightsaber, and Dooku has just the 1. Now, if they set up a strategy utilizing their 5 lightsabers (counting double-bladed as 2) then surely they could give Sidous a match? All 3 of their combat skills and Force connections should be able to give them more time in the battle than stated. Don't get me wrong, I still think Palpatine would walk all over them, but they're all well trained and capable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) Yes they are trained and capable but against Sidious? They die plain and simple, nothing they can do to win or match Sidious for very long. Sec i'll try and find some stuff on Sidious to show. Edit: Ok here is some stuff... http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1994435-new_picture__119_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1994436-new_picture__120_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1994437-new_picture__121_.jpg His lighting powerful enough to reduce a Sithspawn to ash. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1994418-new_picture__103_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1994419-new_picture__104_.jpg http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1994420-new_picture__105_.jpg Burning 3 dark side prophets to ash with lighting. Lightning blasted the clouds above, and lightning blasted from Palpatine's hands, and Mace didn't have time to comprehend what Palpatine was talking about; he had time only to slip back into Vaapad and angle his blade to catch the forking arcs of pure, dazzling hatred that clawed toward him. Because Vaapad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him. And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source. Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face. Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me—" This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. Mace's blade was BENDING from Sidious's lighting. Maul had not wanted to disappoint his Master. He wanted to apologize and ask for forgiveness, but he knew if he did, his punishment would be even worse. And then he thought of how long he had suffered on Orsis because he had not been allowed to use his powers, and he felt his shame transform into rage. He looked up at Sidious and was about to speak but his Master made a pinching gesture. Maul felt his throat constrict. Sidious walked a few steps away from Maul before he released his remote grip on Maul's throat. Using Force Choke on Maul. Suddenly, my lightsaber is gone. It flies from my hand across the room. It lands in the hand of my Master. I never see him enter. Not if he doesn't want me to. The smile of triumph fades from my face. Pulls Maul's saber away. In the inner recesses of his private office, the Jedi confronted the Chancellor. Palpatine produced a lightsaber hidden in his sleeve and let the dark side flow through him. It granted him unnatural dexterity and speed—enough to quickly kill three Jedi Masters and force the mighty Mace Windu back. Self explainatory. === Ok i'll stop now, theres so much I could post but then it would be such a long post to read. Edited January 29, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith_Kingpin Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 I like your cited sources, and I agree Sidous is far superior in the Force than any of these 3. So, let's take Force powers away from it and just rely on saber forms and skills. Let's say it's similar to when Darth Maul fought Pre Viszla and didn't use the Force, he still managed to win on combat technique alone. So, would Sidous still own all 3 of them if they just fought with lightsabers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 On saber skill alone? Ya he still would win, master of all forms of combat sec heres some other stuff... Maul felt his rage flowing through his veins, pumping energy into every muscle. He felt so powerful that he believed he could accomplish anything. And more than anything else, he wanted his Master's blood. Maul sprang at Sidious. Sidious barely missed the first blow from Maul's lightsaber, an upward swing that aimed to rip Sidious in half. Maul swung again but Sidious deflected the blow and retreated. As Maul moved across the rough cave floor, sweat stung his eyes, but he did not stumble. He somersaulted through the air, his lightsaber whirling in the darkness. Sidious raised his lightsaber to parry the next move, which was so powerful it made him stagger backward. As Maul struck, he thought, I'm going to kill him. Sidious parried every blow, but Maul could tell his Master was working hard to keep him at bay. As Sidious backed up against the wall, he said, "You want to kill me? You want to kill your Master?" "Yes," Maul grunted. "You hate me?" "Yes!" Maul screamed through clenched teeth. Sidious shifted like a liquid shadow, maneuvering around his apprentice. Maul was suddenly up against the wall, gasping for breath as his vision blurred. His strength was evaporating. He turned fast to see Sidious. Sidious lashed out with his lightsaber. Maul parried the blow, but then his lightsaber suddenly flew from his hand. As Maul heard his lightsaber deactivete and clatter across the cave's floor, Sidious raised his own lightsaber and advanced. Maul knew he was about to die, but he did not cringe. As Sidious swung his lightsaber, Maul leaped forward, grabbing Sidious's wrist, and sank his teeth into his hand. Maul tasted blood and spat it back at Sidious. Sidious brought his lightsaber down on Maul. Maul waited for the pain and the shock of death. He was surprised when the lightsaber's blade bounced off his shoulder. Sidious cackled merrily. He stood and looked at Maul. Then he tossed the lightsaber aside. Maul realized his Master had been using a harmless training lightsaber. This isn't all of it, but pretty much Sidious was toying with Maul holding back and using a training saber, and disarming him. "Do you think," Lord Sidious says, walking toward me, "you can ever relax your guard?" "No, Master." What a clumsy, weak mistake. I should be prepared for him to enter at all times. How could I have forgotten that, even for a moment? The lightsaber whirls in the air, twirling, held in my Master's hand. I can't track it, it moves so fast. But I know it's heading for me. Lord Sidious moves faster than my eye can follow. I smell heat and smoke. The laser traces the outline of my body, my face, my hands. The buzz is loud in my ear. One flinch, one involuntary twitch of a muscle, and I am dead. I do not flinch. At last, Lord Sidious deactivates my weapon. He tosses it toward me. The sweat on my palm almost causes me to drop it. "Do not let me see you relax your guard again," my Master says. His eyes burn. "You are valuable, yes. But you are not indispensable, Lord Maul. I can do without you." A flick of his robe, and he is gone. Showing of speed here, moving so fast Maul cannot follow. Before Mace realizes what has happened, Kolar, Tiin, and Fisto have fallen to Sidious's blade. Self Explainatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) If Sidious doesn't Force-enhance his speed (or his strength), I could actually see Dooku winning. (Dooku is Master of the lightsaber duelling style Makashi after all.) Ventress and Maul will be long dead, while the two old men are still fencing, waiting for each other to make a mistake. (I think it was stated in the Episode III novel that Windu and Sidious were equal duellists and if they had fought on even ground, the duel would have gone on forever. Dooku and Windu were also kind of on even terms with the saber, IIRC.) Edited January 29, 2013 by Maaruin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Really, the only one who can actually hold his own here is Dooku. Taking The Force out of it, only Dooku would be able to hold the Dark Lord of the Sith off, if only for a brief while. Dooku's mastery of Makashi and his natural fencing style give him graceful maneuverability, but Sidious was able to defeat Yoda in lightsaber combat. A 'no Force' duel between the two would be intense, but Sidious' use of Juyo and the agressive Forms will eventually overcome Dooku. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkondo Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 If Sidious doesn't Force-enhance his speed (or his strength), I could actually see Dooku winning. (Dooku is Master of the lightsaber duelling style Makashi after all.) Ventress and Maul will be long dead, while the two old men are still fencing, waiting for each other to make a mistake. (I think it was stated in the Episode III novel that Windu and Sidious were equal duellists and if they had fought on even ground, the duel would have gone on forever. Dooku and Windu were also kind of on even terms with the saber, IIRC.) And Windu beat Sidious with the saber at his best, however Mace's Vaapad style was using Sidious' Dark Side power against him which is the only reason why he won. Dooku has no such luxury to be able to do that so he would fall to Sidious speed or no speed eventually I could see a decent fight though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkondo Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Really, the only one who can actually hold his own here is Dooku. Taking The Force out of it, only Dooku would be able to hold the Dark Lord of the Sith off, if only for a brief while. Dooku's mastery of Makashi and his natural fencing style give him graceful maneuverability, but Sidious was able to defeat Yoda in lightsaber combat. A 'no Force' duel between the two would be intense, but Sidious' use of Juyo and the agressive Forms will eventually overcome Dooku. For the record he didnt beat Yoda in their fight, Yoda just fled after he realized he couldnt kill Sidious, Give credit to Yoda though he's the only one who caught Sidious' lightning and lived, Sidious was even shocked you could see it in his face. Saber combat wise neither disarmed the other unless you count Sidious' lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlequintwo Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 A better lineup would be Maul, Dooku, Asajj, Savage, Mother Talzin and maybe Grievous to add good measure. I think even Sidious would crumble that all of those forces working together. As for the three that you've put up, they'd probably give Sidious pause, maybe even a wound, but it would most probably end up like the four Jedi masters that accused him of treason. Asajj would die off pretty fast, Maul would follow soon after and Dooku would basically just be blocking until he too falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith_Kingpin Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 A better lineup would be Maul, Dooku, Asajj, Savage, Mother Talzin and maybe Grievous to add good measure. I think even Sidious would crumble that all of those forces working together. As for the three that you've put up, they'd probably give Sidious pause, maybe even a wound, but it would most probably end up like the four Jedi masters that accused him of treason. Asajj would die off pretty fast, Maul would follow soon after and Dooku would basically just be blocking until he too falls. Ohhhhh... I don't wanna go down that road just yet. One name you mentioned there is Mother Talzin, and from what we've seen of her, she is immensely powerful and can manipulate the Force like no other. Examples of her feats: Materialize matter out of thin air (the cup she gave Dooku etc...) Teleport and fade out of sight as seen numerous times. Witchcraft that was going to kill Dooku if General Grievous didn't interrupt. The ability to track Darth Maul from parsecs away and fix his mind and his legs when he's brought before her. Her green lightning that took out a battalion of droids. I've missed out some of her powers, but you get the point. Until we know just how powerful she is and what her true agendas are (she's manipulative and a lair, that's for sure) we can't know for sure her maximum potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonick Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I think how quickly Mace Windu, Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar, and Kit Fisto was dealt with tells you pretty much all you need about how quickly this fight would be over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith_Kingpin Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 I think how quickly Mace Windu, Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar, and Kit Fisto was dealt with tells you pretty much all you need about how quickly this fight would be over Yep it's settled then lol. Darth Sidous wins this fight under any rules. Maybe he could even win with 1 arm tied behind his back? Lol. People still argue Darth Vitiate could defeat Palpatine which is laughable. Palpatine would annihilate him to ash with a few arcs of lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkondo Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Yep it's settled then lol. Darth Sidous wins this fight under any rules. Maybe he could even win with 1 arm tied behind his back? Lol. People still argue Darth Vitiate could defeat Palpatine which is laughable. Palpatine would annihilate him to ash with a few arcs of lightning. Its cause most people havent read Dark Empire, even I thought Emperor Vitiate was stronger til I read that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth__Carnal Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) In order to defeat Darth Sidious, you must be able to defend against Force Lightning.. Ventress - Every time Dooku used Force Lightning against Ventress she was unable to defend against it. So she would be dead rather quickly if she went against Sidious. Savage Oppress - That damn Force Lightning ! Savage clearly shows that not only is he unable to defend against it, he begs Dooku to teach him how to defend against it. So he is dead quickly also. Darth Maul - Both at his prime and now during the Clone Wars, has never used Force Lightning and has shown no ability to defend against it. Worse, now that Maul is half cyborg, he certainly runs the risk of becoming paralyzed from the waist down during a fight against Sidious. Count Dooku - He has clearly mastered his use of Force Lightning and has shown that he can defend against it when he repelled his own lightning bolt battling Yoda. Dooku could easily hold his own against Sidious. The question is, can Dooku defeat him ? Maybe. With the help of the others certainly. Dooku would use the others as cannon fodder while he looked for an opening. The problem with Force Lightning is it requires you to be stationary. That is a serious flaw in combat. Dare say while Sidious was using Force Lightning on the first target the other 3 would attack him simultaneously and it would be over. However Sidious is not a fool, chances are he would know this and not use Force Lightning during the battle. This means he would have to whittle the numbers down using lightsaber combat. This could prove difficult especially since all of them use different combat styles. As weak as you may think Ventress is, she will be a pain in the neck to deal with using her speed, flexibility, and dual lightsabers. Savage with his brute strength will force Sidious to stay mobile and Maul has experience dueling Sidious so he can easily give advice to the others. Dooku would stay at range using Force Lightning and reserving his strength for the killing blow. Sidious will have no choice but to retreat. Maul, Savage, Ventress stay melee, and Dooku range, and it is highly doable you will have 1 dead Emperor. Edited January 29, 2013 by Darth__Carnal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 No Carnal....no, none of them stand a chance against the most powerful sith lord ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asumothegrate Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Sidous mastered battle meditation he would own all of them plus manipulate them to fight each other lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saremun Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Sidous mastered battle meditation he would own all of them plus manipulate them to fight each other lol lol fully agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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