I know all Seperatist and Republic Star Systems joined the newly constituted Galactic Empire. But, as we know from TCW cartoon, there's many neutral systems. Mandalore alone has 2,000 neutral systems under it's command that weren't involved in the Clone Wars, and had no political allegiance to Palpatine's Seperatists or Republic. Would most of the neutral systems remain neutral? Would they have aided the Rebellion? Or, did they join Sidious' Empire through conquest? It'd be interesting to see a movie/TV show between the original trilogy and prequel trilogy to show the politics as well as the transformation of the Empire. Don't forget, the Seperatists had their own Senate, but it was lead by Dooku who was commanded by Palpatine. The neutrals had no agendas, and certainly weren't involved with Chancellor Palpatine at all, so did all of them see the benefits and join the Empire? Or, did they secede or just defy the Emperor's dominion over the galaxy?

I agree with this. Windu was never going to win that fight, when Anakin showed up, Sidous and his manipulative ways seen an opportunity to lure Anakin to the Dark Side. Windu's Vaapad was causing problems, but his lightsaber hilt was bending from Sidous' Force Lightning, and even if Anakin never showed up, the Dark Lord would have killed Windu one way or the other.

Hmm, ok let's say in this hypothetical bout that the Sith Emperor deals with the problem in person. Let's say it's in the core of the Korriban Academy, and there's no escape routes for any of the battlers. With their combined Force connections and lightsaber skills, I think the 5 Sith Lords could put up a fight. Don't get me wrong, I still think Darth Vitiate would annihilate them. But, I think the combined knowledge of the Sith Lords could see them hold their own against the Emperor for a while. I can't see Darth Nihilus or Darth Traya being indoctrinated by the Emperor like Revan and Malak. Also, I'm sure together they could heighten their Force powers to resist Darth Vitiate long enough to give him some problems.

Yep it's settled then lol. Darth Sidous wins this fight under any rules. Maybe he could even win with 1 arm tied behind his back? Lol. People still argue Darth Vitiate could defeat Palpatine which is laughable. Palpatine would annihilate him to ash with a few arcs of lightning.

Ohhhhh... I don't wanna go down that road just yet. One name you mentioned there is Mother Talzin, and from what we've seen of her, she is immensely powerful and can manipulate the Force like no other. Examples of her feats: Materialize matter out of thin air (the cup she gave Dooku etc...) Teleport and fade out of sight as seen numerous times. Witchcraft that was going to kill Dooku if General Grievous didn't interrupt. The ability to track Darth Maul from parsecs away and fix his mind and his legs when he's brought before her. Her green lightning that took out a battalion of droids. I've missed out some of her powers, but you get the point. Until we know just how powerful she is and what her true agendas are (she's manipulative and a lair, that's for sure) we can't know for sure her maximum potential.

Maybe, but I don't think it'd be as simple as that given that Darth Nihilus' Force Drain could weaken Darth Vitiate. Also, Darth Sion is nigh invincible, so he could be a nuisance. As I said, it'd be an interesting bout if these 5 teamed up to try and stop the Sith Emperor instead of doing what they done in KOTOR 1 and 2.

Erm, nope. In SW lore, Palpatine is the ultimate Sith; thus, he beats Revan hands down. It's George Lucas' story, so he has the final say in it. And, he says Darth Sidious is the strongest Sith Lord ever.

Nope he can't if he was alive, then he'd have been involved in the rebellion in some form or another. He'd have contacted Kenobi or Yoda, and even if he turned Dark Side, there'd have been use for him in Palpatine's Empire, so surely he'd have been involved in the incessant purge of the Jedi. It's very unlikely that he'd just remain a hermit on Coruscant and not contact anybody at all. Anyway, that's besides the point. It opens up a hole can of worms as then everyone would say maybe Darth Sidious didn't die when Vader dropped him down that shaft. Or, maybe Boba Fett survived, too. At first I thought the Maul revival brought up unnecessary problems, but I actually think he's a great villain in the TCW and sparked it back to life. I believe people in the SW universe and other fantasy worlds should remain dead, or not die in the first place.

I like your cited sources, and I agree Sidous is far superior in the Force than any of these 3. So, let's take Force powers away from it and just rely on saber forms and skills. Let's say it's similar to when Darth Maul fought Pre Viszla and didn't use the Force, he still managed to win on combat technique alone. So, would Sidous still own all 3 of them if they just fought with lightsabers?

I know a lot of you will say it's a mismatch, but I'll go ahead with this hypothetical battle anyway. Darth Traya + Darth Nihilus + Darth Sion + Darth Revan + Darth Malak vs Darth Vitiate Location: Korriban Academy (allows all to connect to the dark side energies there, and is an iconic Sith world -- the perfect venue for such a bout.) Weapons: Lightsabers and Force powers only, no outside help or interference. We have 5 top class Sith Lords of this era squaring up against the Don (Sith Emperor) who do you think would win given these circumstances? It'd be close, and I'm not yet sure who'd win so I don't want to stick my neck on the line just yet lol.

I agree with you all and think Sidous would be the victor. So, let's up the ante. Ventress has 2 lightsabers, Maul has a double-bladed lightsaber, and Dooku has just the 1. Now, if they set up a strategy utilizing their 5 lightsabers (counting double-bladed as 2) then surely they could give Sidous a match? All 3 of their combat skills and Force connections should be able to give them more time in the battle than stated. Don't get me wrong, I still think Palpatine would walk all over them, but they're all well trained and capable.

Location: Coruscant Senate building. Weapons: Lightsabers and Force powers only (no outside help from Seperatist droids or Republic clones) Do you think the two Sith Lords and the assassin Ventress could topple Darth Sidous? Or, do you think Palpatine would take all 3 given the circumstances? It's an interesting one, but I'd go with Palpatine on this. I made the battle 3 vs 1 because I thought Palpatine would take any 2 on the list with ease. Also, this battle would differ a lot from the Jedi Masters + Mace Windu vs Palpatine as they just tried to arrest the Chancellor, whereas Sith take no prisoners and would fight to kill him by any means necessary.

What's the true potential of Force users according the SW lore? I ask this because, in the movies and cartoons, the Force is mostly used in basic ways I.E. Force Jump, Force Push, Force Lightning and Mind Tricks seem to be as far as Force sensitives go. However, in SW novels, comics and video games, the Force is akin to magic and users can conjure some magnificent powers. Palpatine in the novels can summon a wormhole, and we all know what the Sith Emperor Darth Vitiate can do, so what's the benchmark for an accurate portrayal of the Force? In the new movies, will they keep it simple, or will they test CGI special effects and make the Force like it is in games? People always argue games like the Force Unleashed and KOTOR use the Force for game mechanics, and nobody can manipulate the Force like those characters. So, what's your take on this? As always, all replies are welcome and I'd like to hear your opinions.

What way would you kill Darth Maul? Most people would like to see Obi Wan actually finish him off once and for all. Others would like to see Darth Sidous handle the threat the Dathomir brothers pose, and others I've spoke to would like to see Darth Maul fend off against Count Dooku as both were apprentices of Palpatine. So, if you could, how would you kill off the mighty Sith Lord?

Well, maybe I'm just too compassionate and judgemental. Anyway, you're right, I've never been involved in war, so I don't know what it's like. I imagine my survival instincts would kick in, and I would be a hypocrite as I'd no doubt murder the enemy. Maybe I am misreading the situation, but I stick by my feelings on the Clones that I just can't like them. Duty is duty and we all have to adhere to it at some time in our lives, so I guess you're right. The Clones were protecting the Republic, but in my eyes they were callous. Nothing will change my opinion on this, and even ROTS portrays them as the antagonists of the film after Order 66. I'm not deliberately trying to argue here -- these are just my subjective opinions that won't be swayed.

I have to disagree with you there. To say the clones were only obeying orders is a little bit bold. The Nazis only obeyed orders, were they not murderous animals during their genocide? I watched ROTS recently, and the way they not only murder the Jedi, but continually shoot them even when they're down and dead is remorseless to me. They were the root of so much death across the galaxy, and killing children is unacceptable. You can say they're genetically engineered, but TCW doesn't show them to be mindless drones -- it shows them having individuality and intellect. So, they could easily disobey the order as they form friendships and bonds with their Jedi Generals. Admittedly, wrongly was the incorrect word as GL has final say on his vision of the SW universe. What I meant was, I personally have small problems with the points I raised, they don't bug me too much as I still love the show and watch it on a weekly basis. It's just, every time I see the clones, I always think they're as heartless as Death Watch and have a capacity to murder as shown in ROTS when they hunt down Jedi without a care in the world.

Very true. I'm aware not all clones followed the order. However, the vast majority (probably more than 99%) obeyed Order 66 and purged the Jedi without remorse. Now, this doesn't resonate with me as I can't see the clones being as emotionally tied and invested as they are in the CW cartoon. This is all subjective opinion, and is not fact. I hope Rex turns out to be a defector as he learnt a lot from that clone who left the army and had a Twilek hybrid family on a farm. Anyway, yeah I agree it's good seeing Anakin in a different light... but surely he couldn't have changed from a whiny brat, into a good master, and then back into a whiny brat for the start of ROTS, as there's only a 3 year gap in which his personality change can occur lol.

I'm not saying I don't like the show because I do. It's just, they've done a few things in which make me raise my eyebrows. For example, in the movies, Anakin was a hot-headed, whiny brat who was bordering on selfish. In the CW cartoon, they changed his character completely and make him a respectful master to Ahsoka, as he chastises her a lot for things he'd have done in the movies without a second thought. Also, the clones bug me because I can't buy into their emotions and individuality since we know the murderous animals they become. Does anyone here think someone like Rex or Cody would willingly murder Jedi with a single order from the Chancellor? I don't believe it at all, as we're shown in the CW, they respect the Jedi and look up to them on the battlefield. Their unique personalities prove they could easily reject Order 66 and not become cold-blooded animals, yet as we're shown in the ROTS, they purge Jedi and even murder younglings at the Jedi Temple! Which brings me to my last point in the rant. The Jedi youngling arc just recently shown in season 5 made me a little uneasy; I know they probably don't grow up to be Padawans as they could very well be murdered by Anakin (now Vader) in the Jedi Temple! It made me a little sad, as we attach ourselves to these characters' emotions, and yet we know what happens in the future and it sort of makes me a little disappointed. I don't know about you, but these are my pet peeves of the show. If you have anything else I missed, please state your opinions as I like debating these issues with fellow SW geeks lol.

Interesting... Darth Vitiate would stand a good chance, but then if we go down that route, we have to accept that Darth Sidious could match the Ones as he is the ultimate Sith and strongest Sith Lord ever. Anyway, I'd like to address the points made about Mother Talzin. From the CW lore, her powers far exceed anything else we've seen on the show. She can materialize matter out of thin air (the cup for Dooku etc...) also, she can teleport and fade away. She turned Savage Oppress from a thin warrior into a steroid looking maniac. With her magic, Savage found Maul and she was orchestrating the entire thing from parsecs away! She also fixed Darth Maul's broken, hermit mind and then gave him new legs as well. Her green lightning destroyed a batalion of droids, and her witchcraft would have killed a Sith Lord with ease (Dooku was going to die, that was a certainty). So, these aren't my opinions... these are facts that are shown in the CW. So, in my eyes, she could be a One, as she has a unique, uncanny way of manipulating the force that could match almost any known force user in existence. I personally don't think she is a One, but to say she doesn't come near their power is a bold statement indeed.

Look, I only proposed this hypothetical because they're of the same time period and class (all are from the Clone Wars era, and I didn't wanna mix with the Old Republic or other eras). I know they are not the elite, but I chose it because they all use blasters and don't use lightsabers, so it's a fair, balanced fight. Also, they are cold-blooded killers all of them, whereas Jedi tend to try to disarm or arrest, so this battle would be full of death with no prisoners of war. Give the pirates their credit... they arrested Count Dooku, Anakin and Obi Wan with ease, and recaptured them when they tried to escape. Also, they nearly killed Darth Maul and Savage when fleeing from Florrum, so they aren't as weak as some people believe. I'm aware I could have picked much better armies, but it wouldn't have been a fair or even interesting fight if I put say the Seperatists or the Republic vs any of these warriors as it's just silly. This was about a close battle with many casualties and it's difficult to choose an out and out winner.

Who would win? The only rules are there can be no outside interference or help (no Jedi, Sith, Seperatist influence etc...) Armies: All of Death Watch from numerous planets. All pirates from Florrrum or who work for Hondo's gang. Bounty hunters will be under Cad Bane's command, and people like Boba Fett and dangerous bounty hunters from Coruscant's Underworld will involved. Location: Umbara to allow for guerrilla tactics and vantage points. Weapons: just blasters, launchers, jetpacks and wrist mounts... no speeders, droids or space ships of any kind. Discuss who you think would win and how they would go about winning this difficult battle.

Yeah, obviously mere mortals stand little chance against 'immortals'. But, if you can't kill them, couldn't you at least contain or impede them? Couldn't Darth Sidous use his hyperspace wormhole to swallow up the Son? If the Son and Anakin succeeded in escaping Mortis, these are the types of tactics the most powerful Jedi and Sith would have to think as they wouldn't be able to kill the Son without the Mortis Dagger. Not being able to die doesn't mean you're not able to be imprisoned in some manner...

Some good points. But I've got one more question... I've heard a rumor that Mother Talzin (the head witch of Dathomir) is a One, I personally don't believe this, but many people do think she has the powers to be a One, and they think she is the Mother that is mentioned. She handled Count Dooku with ease, and would have killed him if not for General Grievous interrupting. People say Mother Talzin is similar to Darth Sidious as she too has a scheme she is trying to put into effect (helping both Savage and Ventress when they both go back to Dathomir complaining about one another). I can't wait for the next arc in the CW series as I'm told Darth Sidious is going to take matters into his own hands, so it will be great to see him tackle Darth Maul and Savage with his fabled Sith Lightning.

Excellent, valid points. I agree with everything you've said. It's just, when you you know Sidious' true potential and some of his Force Powers, it's a gamble betting against him. Darth Sidous is my favorite character in the universe, and that's why I root for him. Would his infamous Force Storm not be able to swallow up the Son? Or, would the Son be able to counter it? It's just interesting to debate, as we're also informed Sidous had the most powerful Force Lightning in Sith history, and it would be great to see his lightning up against the Son's red lightning. Wasn't Sidous also the raw embodiment of the Dark Side? Thus, wouldn't he be on par with the Ones? For example, the Ones are basically the force, but Sidous is actually the Dark Side manifestation, so wouldn't he be godlike and be nigh impossible to defeat? I'm not disagreeing with anyone's points, I'm just trying to raise further topics for discussion.

Let me just say, I apologize for my harsh words as it was all my fault to begin with. I'm sorry for overreacting, and I hope bygones can be bygones. I read over my words, and realized that arrogance exuded from my replies. So, I do sincerely apologize for acting like a fool. And, I will try to get this post deleted right away as I've found the correct forum after a google search.