Kaggath Tournament - Xizor vs Traya vs Exar Kun

[Canino]

Sion will be of little issue, as Kun can simply incapacitate him with Sith Magic or a Force Blast. He can be incapacitated, which will allow Kun to engage Traya at his leisure.

 

Alright, I have to say something. Depending on where Sion is, he gains and loses immortality power.

From Wookiepeida

 

When struck down, Sion could call upon his anger, hate, and pain to come alive again. In places strong in the dark side, like Korriban and Malachor V, the Force flowing through Sion made him nigh-undefeatable. Jedi Master Lonna Vash considered him "a perversion of the dark side."

 

This suggests that if Sion is at Malachor when fighting, he wouldn't be able to be defeated by Kun, unless Kun can convince him to die. (Actually, Sion was in love with the Exile, which is why he spared her, and allowed himself to die) Incapacitate, maybe, but kill-no. This might also be true at Yavin 4, if it has enough darkside energy.

 

Also, I have a question. If the assassins scale in powerful to fight their foes, does that mean if they fight Kun, they are as powerful as him? This would basically spell death for Kun of he were to fight Traya and assassins.

[Aurbere]

How could Kun retreat; couldn't the interdicters use their gravity well generators to hold his fleet in system. If that's the case Kun wouldn't stand a chance.

 

Yeah, that would work. Kun could also land on Yavin or the Ravager and kill Traya.

 

So if killing Traya is the only way to win, that's what Kun will do. And, as noted before, she will be on Yavin. Kun can simply locate her ship and land next to it, cornering Traya.

[Aurbere]

Alright, I have to say something. Depending on where Sion is, he gains and loses immortality power.

From Wookiepeida

 

 

 

This suggests that if Sion is at Malachor when fighting, he wouldn't be able to be defeated by Kun, unless Kun can convince him to die. (Actually, Sion was in love with the Exile, which is why he spared her, and allowed himself to die) Incapacitate, maybe, but kill-no. This might also be true at Yavin 4, if it has enough darkside energy.

 

Also, I have a question. If the assassins scale in powerful to fight their foes, does that mean if they fight Kun, they are as powerful as him? This would basically spell death for Kun of he were to fight Traya and assassins.

 

Sion can still be incapacitated.

 

The assassins may be able to become as powerful as Kun, but nowhere near as skilled. They would still fall prey to his superior skills with the lightsaber.

 

Kun also has his own assassins from the Mecrosa order. So he can use them to take over Traya's ships or destroy them.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Aurbere

[cjlcw]

Yeah, that would work. Kun could also land on Yavin or the Ravager and kill Traya.

 

So if killing Traya is the only way to win, that's what Kun will do. And, as noted before, she will be on Yavin. Kun can simply locate her ship and land next to it, cornering Traya.

 

But, I don't think Traya would let Kun fight her on favorable terms. She would likely be hiding away from her ship, and she'd be accompanied by Sion along with her best apprentices and soldiers. I think she could stack the deck in her favor. If not I could see her luring him into a trap and while he was occupied fighting, she could flee Yavin and have her fleet bombard his location.

[Warren-Stride]

So we have eliminated Xizor, then?

 

That is only one scenario.

 

However, I feel Xizor is being underestimated. He was the thrid most powerful man in the galaxy during his time. 1st and 2nd went to Vader and the Emperor. If that's not telling of his power and influence I don't know what is.

 

First: The Black Sun

"It is a vast criminal syndicate…its influence felt on every planet from the Core Worlds to the Outer Rim. Black Sun has existed for hundreds of years, and embedded itself in the very fiber of the galaxy. The resources at its disposal are almost limitless. The soldiers under its command number in the tens of thousands. The ignorant even call it the most powerful force in the known universe." ―Darth Sidious, to Darth Maul

The Black Sun was not a gang of common thugs. Sidious himself states that they're EVERYWHERE. And they're almost a third faction in themselves. They have troops and armies and unlimited resources. So I imagine it would not be hard at all for Xizor to amass a fleet, and in a very short amount of time.

 

Second: Coruscant

 

If you assumed Xizor was sitting helpless in his palace with no forces at all, you were wrong.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Xizor's_navy

Xizor had an entire FLEET over Coruscant. It was able to battle with Rebellion and Imperial forces in a three-way battle over Coruscant. He also had some very skilled fighters and pilots.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Elite_Black_Sun

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/StarViper-class_attack_platform

Add to that the fact that Coruscant is heavily defended by Xizor's time, and Xizor is well guarded on Coruscant.

Emperor Palpatine also began to shape Coruscant with his own designs, and this included the installation of almost one million surveillance systems throughout the ecumenopolis. Massive shield generators were placed all over Coruscant, and where the shield segments overlapped, powerful storms would brew - Wookieepedia

If Xizor had access to these security devices, which he will if the Empire disappears, he will know all that happens on the planet. And those sheild generators will prevent orbital bombardment.

 

Also, Xizor's Palace isn't defenseless. It has tons of guards and extremely high security, the best the black market can buy, considering Xizor's position. Also, these droids would be very very handy in dealing with any intruders.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Sun_gladiator_droid

They can survive and fight even when cut into three parts. Good luck.

 

Third: Base

 

At least have Xizor escape to somewhere realistic. Like, I don't know, the Black Sun Fortress?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Sun_Fortress

...accompanying bodyguards, mercenaries, private soldiers, and security emplacements made the once beautiful retreat into a fortress. The fortress boasted the most formidable, ruthless killers and warriors... -Wookieepedia

The Black Sun Fortress would already have an armada of ships and their best troops waiting by the time Xizor got there. Let's not forget that Xizor can amass a fleet very quickly and he doesn't need to get off Coruscant before sending the message to the Fortress: "Prepare a Fleet".

 

Don't underestimate Xizor.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Aurbere]

I've been thinking ahead to the future battle with G0-T0 and I don't know if Exar Kun could win. Really, the only one I see beating G0-T0 is Xizor, and Kun has pretty much eliminated him (debateable). So it would fall to Traya imo.

 

As much as I would love to see Kun win this (which is still possible), I don't know how well he would do against G0-T0.

[Canino]

Sion can still be incapacitated.

 

The assassins may be able to become as powerful as Kun, but nowhere near as skilled. They would still fall prey to his superior skills with the lightsaber.

 

Kun also has his own assassins from the Mecrosa order. So he can use them to take over Traya's ships or destroy them.

 

True, but incapacitation isn't forever. Depending on how long a fight Kun puts up with Traya/anyone else, Sion could potentially come back and fight, with more rage than ever.

 

Also, I think Sion is being undermined. This man was clever and smart. He wasn't a brute, as almost all believed-he trapped people and understood tactics. Kun would also never meet the immortal Sion, giving Traya an edge for the first fight they have. And Kun is rash and arrogant. It will be that first clash between the two, and as Kun believes to strike down Sion, he will grow arrogant and not realize that Sion isn't dead. Sion then has the moment of surprise to attack and potentially win.

 

Notice potentially, not a guarantee, but still high. Precog can only go so far, and in the moment, Kun will never notice the rising body of Sion, and his arrogance will help him believe he has slain Sion.

[Warren-Stride]

I've been thinking ahead to the future battle with G0-T0 and I don't know if Exar Kun could win. Really, the only one I see beating G0-T0 is Xizor, and Kun has pretty much eliminated him (debateable). So it would fall to Traya imo.

 

As much as I would love to see Kun win this (which is still possible), I don't know how well he would do against G0-T0.

 

Oh how you tempt me. I agree, Xizor vs. G0-T0 would be much closer than Exar Kun vs. G0-T0.

 

But I really like Xizor as well, and he's being severly underestimated in this debate. If he can win, I'm going to point out how. Yay for underworld characters!

[Canino]

I've been thinking ahead to the future battle with G0-T0 and I don't know if Exar Kun could win. Really, the only one I see beating G0-T0 is Xizor, and Kun has pretty much eliminated him (debateable). So it would fall to Traya imo.

 

As much as I would love to see Kun win this (which is still possible), I don't know how well he would do against G0-T0.

 

I would love to see this, or a Traya vs. G0-T0. Both would be fun.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I will admit I kinda have been looking this as one sided, I really do want Xizor to win cause he is a great non-force using character(am a big fan) but being this is Kun who isn't a moron with strategy and has a huge fleet at his disposal....not to mention being very powerful in The Force along with Massassi Warriors and other dark force users....I guess you could see why my hopes for Xizor to win just kinda went right out the window..but i'll come up with a few ways I suppose in how he could win. Edited January 27, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

I would love to see this, or a Traya vs. G0-T0. Both would be fun.

 

Oh how you tempt me. I agree, Xizor vs. G0-T0 would be much closer than Exar Kun vs. G0-T0.

 

But I really like Xizor as well, and he's being severly underestimated in this debate. If he can win, I'm going to point out how. Yay for underworld characters!

 

I agree with the both of you. While I did underestimate Xizor at first, upon further review (which should have been done before lol ), I would say that Xizor is a considerable threat.

 

As much as I would like to see Kun win, I would have to go for the person that can defeat G0-T0 (or at least contend with the droid). And I don't see Kun doing that very well. Exar Kun can contend with Traya and Xizor (militarily), but I think he would be the victim of an underhanded tactic. Most likely by Traya (going off of the scenario Beni and I have set up).

 

So here is a scenario for that. Exar Kun and the Mandalorian fleet engages Traya's fleet above Yavin while Kun goes down to the planet to engage Traya. Exar Kun encounters Sion and a handful of Traya's students and fights them. Traya slips away in her ship and commands the ships to bombard Yavin. As Kun defeats the last of Traya's students (after using Sith Magic to incapacitate Sion), he gets bombarded.

 

The above is debateable, but I'm changing allegiances (partially, still wanting to see Kun win ) in order to see a proper battle for G0-T0.

[Aurbere]

I will admit I kinda have been looking this as one sided, I really do want Xizor to win cause he is a great non-force using character(am a big fan) but being this is Kun who isn't a moron with strategy and has a huge fleet at his disposal....not to mention being very powerful in The Force along with Massassi Warriors and other dark force users....I guess you could see why my hopes for Xizor to win just kinda went right out the window..but i'll come up with a few ways I suppose in how he could win.

 

If anything, Kun is going to fall prey to Traya's underhanded tactics (noted in the post above this one).

[Canino]

I agree with the both of you. While I did underestimate Xizor at first, upon further review (which should have been done before lol ), I would say that Xizor is a considerable threat.

 

As much as I would like to see Kun win, I would have to go for the person that can defeat G0-T0 (or at least contend with the droid). And I don't see Kun doing that very well. Exar Kun can contend with Traya and Xizor (militarily), but I think he would be the victim of an underhanded tactic. Most likely by Traya (going off of the scenario Beni and I have set up).

 

So here is a scenario for that. Exar Kun and the Mandalorian fleet engages Traya's fleet above Yavin while Kun goes down to the planet to engage Traya. Exar Kun encounters Sion and a handful of Traya's students and fights them. Traya slips away in her ship and commands the ships to bombard Yavin. As Kun defeats the last of Traya's students (after using Sith Magic to incapacitate Sion), he gets bombarded.

 

The above is debateable, but I'm changing allegiances (partially, still wanting to see Kun win ) in order to see a proper battle for G0-T0.

 

You're to kind, good sir-G0-T0 must be stopped-but he won't:D Muhahahahahaha

[Aurbere]

You're to kind, good sir-G0-T0 must be stopped-but he won't:D Muhahahahahaha

 

I'll admit defeat in the face of opposition, you know! Gotta go with the best candidate to beat G0-T0. Because I would really love to see G0-T0 lose. He's beaten everyone... then again, so will the winner here.

 

I'm sure this could be debated further, but really, we should move on from Kun (unless someone has something else to say), and focus on Traya vs. Xizor.

 

Edit: Thinking on it, Exar Kun could have beaten pretty much anyone other than these underworld types.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Aurbere

[Beniboybling]

Don't underestimate Xizor.

Daayam! I shall never do so again. Please accept my humblest of apologies.

 

(Seriously though, nice work - you just put Xizor back in the game )

 

OK, before I sign off a few things that need to be considered:

 

 

• How will Ulic and the Tetan fleet will fare against Xizor's (albeit unprepared) forces? And what is the likelihood of Xizor's survival if he is forced to flee? (Concerning that fortress however, it belonged to Alexi - after Maul ripped through it I doubt its defenses are anything as powerful, its most likely empty, empty but still usable.)
   
   
  
• If Ulic loses against Xizor, how will Xizor fair against Traya or Kun?
   
   
  
• How will Exar Kun fare against an ambush from Traya and her fleet? And what's the is the likelihood of Traya's surivival if she loses and what is the likelihood of Kun's?
  

[Aurbere]

Daayam! I shall never do so again. Please accept my humblest of apologies.

 

(Seriously though, nice work - you just put Xizor back in the game )

 

OK, before I sign off a few things that need to be considered:

 

 

• How will Ulic and the Tetan fleet will fare against Xizor's (albeit unprepared) forces? And what is the likelihood of Xizor's survival if he is forced to flee? (Concerning that fortress however, it belonged to Alexi - after Maul ripped through it I doubt its defenses are anything as powerful, its most likely empty, empty but still usable.)
   
   
  
• If Ulic loses against Xizor, how will Xizor fair against Traya or Kun?
   
   
  
• How will Exar Kun fare against an ambush from Traya and her fleet? And what's the is the likelihood of Traya's surivival if she loses and what is the likelihood of Kun's?
  

 

If Xizor escapes, it falls to Traya.

[Wolfninjajedi]

If anything, Kun is going to fall prey to Traya's underhanded tactics (noted in the post above this one).

 

I was actually thinking perhaps if Xizor's palace is attacked, Xizor has it rigged with bio chemicals and when Kun's troops come in and it blows releasing a deadly bio chemical which could kill all of the men. Trihexalon would be good here.

[Aurbere]

I was actually thinking perhaps if Xizor's palace is attacked, Xizor has it rigged with bio chemicals and when Kun's troops come in and it blows releasing a deadly bio chemical which could kill all of the men. Trihexalon would be good here.

 

That's another thing. Bioweapons would really hurt Kun's forces. Not so much the Krath War Droids, but the biologicals wouldn't survive.

 

But again, these troops would be led by Ulic, not Kun as he would be fighting Traya.

[Wolfninjajedi]

That's another thing. Bioweapons would really hurt Kun's forces. Not so much the Krath War Droids, but the biologicals wouldn't survive.

 

But again, these troops would be led by Ulic, not Kun as he would be fighting Traya.

 

Thats why I said Kun's troops and not Kun. As for the droids, Ion blasters? Ion grenades?

Edited January 27, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Warren-Stride]

Guri!

 

The proposed mathod of attack is for Ulic to lead the Krath Army on Coruscant. There are a few probelms with this plan, seeing as Coruscant is defended by shields and turbolasers, Xizor's Fleet (powerful enough to battle the Rebellion), and the heavy defenses inside Xizor's Palace. (See my post at the bottom of page 8)

 

However, if the Krath do attack, there's a chance for Xizor to go on the offensive. You guessed it: Guri.

 

In this battle it seems inevitable that Guri should face Ulic. Either defending Xizor, or by bringing the fight to Ulic's flagship. Either way, Guri might just win.

 

Guri is made of metal. She's super strong. She's built to fight. And she's smart and inhumanly fast. Her reflexes are top notch.

 

But don't take it from me.

After the party, Xizor and Guri followed Chyler, Rendar and their bodyguard to a nearby cantina where Rendar was delivering a datapad with Important information to Luke Skywalker. Xizor ordered Guri to kill the group and to take the datapad, but Skywalker and the others put up a strong defense. Finally, the Black Sun prince gave up and ordered Guri to leave, promising to expose all information about Rendar - and more importantly Skywalker - to the Emperor

 

She battled Dash Rendar, two other people, and wait for it.... Luke Skywalker. And didn't die. She was called off.

 

I think Guri could defeat Ulic 1v1.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Uh Warren where are you looking, cause this is what I see on her bio.

 

Xizor ordered Guri to kill the group and to take the datapad, but Skywalker and the others put up a strong defense. As the fight spread into the Mos Espa streets, Xizor was knocked down and Guri moved to protect her master. Deciding that they had learned enough about Rendar's involvement, Xizor opted to retreat, with Guri covering him as they fled.

 

I dunno about her beating Ulic, she did lose to Luke later on.

 

Having seen his abilities in the previous fight, Guri had decided that Skywalker would be a worthy challenge for her abilities. She persuaded the young Jedi to throw aside his lightsaber and fight unarmed. Using the Force, Skywalker was able to evade Guri's attacks. Momentarily losing his concentration, Skywalker was knocked to the floor by Guri who moved to strike a killing blow. With the help of the Force he was able to move away from her blow and used a leg sweep to send her to the floor, igniting his lightsaber.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Guri!

 

The proposed mathod of attack is for Ulic to lead the Krath Army on Coruscant. There are a few probelms with this plan, seeing as Coruscant is defended by shields and turbolasers, Xizor's Fleet (powerful enough to battle the Rebellion), and the heavy defenses inside Xizor's Palace. (See my post at the bottom of page 8)

 

However, if the Krath do attack, there's a chance for Xizor to go on the offensive. You guessed it: Guri.

 

In this battle it seems inevitable that Guri should face Ulic. Either defending Xizor, or by bringing the fight to Ulic's flagship. Either way, Guri might just win.

 

Guri is made of metal. She's super strong. She's built to fight. And she's smart and inhumanly fast. Her reflexes are top notch.

 

But don't take it from me.

 

 

She battled Dash Rendar, two other people, and wait for it.... Luke Skywalker. And didn't die. She was called off.

 

I think Guri could defeat Ulic 1v1.

 

Before Luke was a full Jedi, of course.

 

IIRC, they did fight again, and Luke had his first moment of Force Speed, which he used to subdue Guri. Plus he was unarmed. A full Sith Lord with a lightsaber should be able to handle her.

[Warren-Stride]

Uh Warren where are you looking, cause this is what I see on her bio.

 

I dunno about her beating Ulic, she did lose to Luke later on.

 

It's from Guri's Wookiepedia profile. Next to the picture of Guri & Xizor vs. Luke.

 

And yes, she did lose later on, but she also basically defeated Luke, that time as well, before he got his lightsaber back. And he was a full Jedi then. And how did that battle end, because I don't see anything saying she can't handle fighting against a lightsaber.

 

But fine, I understand she'll probably lose to Ulic. So.... Sabotage?

Edited January 27, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Wolfninjajedi]

I see no such picture, and Luke just lost due to being distracted(from what who knows), but anyway ya against Ulic I don't see her winning. Sabotage though? Yes could very well do so, hmm...thinking on that Xizor could capture a supply ship from Kun's forces and place a bomb or bio weapon inside, ship it back to Kun's forces thus releasing the chemical or blowing the bomb destroying whatever forces are around.

[Aurbere]

It's from Guri's Wookiepedia profile. Next to the picture of Guri & Xizor vs. Luke.

 

And yes, she did lose later on, but she also basically defeated Luke, that time as well, before he got his lightsaber back. And he was a full Jedi then. And how did that battle end, because I don't see anything saying she can't handle fighting against a lightsaber.

 

But fine, I understand she'll probably lose to Ulic. So.... Sabotage?

 

Sabotage would be effective, but Ulic will be leading the invasion, so he won't be killed via sabotage.

 

The way I see it, this whole battle goes down in two ways:

 

1. Xizor is killed in the Battle of Coruscant and Traya's forces triumph in the Battle of Yavin. Traya wins.

 

2. Xizor escapes the Battle of Coruscant and Traya wins at Yavin. This means that Xizor has an excellent chance for victory against Traya, but her assassins will be a major issue.

 

for Kun.