Palar Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 "Changed" makes me think it's to do with the old ones - characters not in the game wouldn't need changing. If the old quests and levelling process is getting stream-lined, I can see that affecting recruitment as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) I think that means the mechanics behind companion recruitment is the thing that is being changed for KOTFE, not individual characters. Edited August 11, 2015 by OldVengeance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palar Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Maybe. Like I said, who knows? With this game's track record, they'll tell us after it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartElroy Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 That's specifically regarding KOTFE, not pre-existing content, though. They specifically said they're revamping the entire companion system, so at least mechanically, we can expect changes to 1-50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TythonAshlaBogan Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Hello there! I'm new to the threads, but have been playing for a while. I just wanted to put in my two cents on the matter. As a gay guy myself, I feel like not only can I not express myself in the game, but that in some cases the OGRs that are already there are shoved at me. Take for instance the Jedi Consular companion Nadia. She is awesome, and I use her a lot, so naturally I followed the conversations with her. But around the sixth or seventh chat, she started coming on to my character, and when I politely declined, she basically ignored it. Next thing I know she asks me to run away with her and Qyuzen is calling her my mate and advising me to present her with Wookie fur. All without choosing a single flirt! I just feel annoyed when people say that SGRs would feel forced when romances like this feel so unnatural and involuntary. On a side note, reading through the thread is very entertaining. I love seeing all the tangents you guys go off on, but it makes me feel so happy that people like you are fighting for our rights to express ourselves equally. Keep up the good work! Edited August 11, 2015 by TythonAshlaBogan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Hello there! I'm new to the threads, but have been playing for a while. I just wanted to put in my two cents on the matter. As a gay guy myself, I feel like not only can I not express myself in the game, but that in some cases the OGRs that are already there are shoved at me. Take for instance the Jedi Consular companion Nadia. She is awesome, and I use her a lot, so naturally I followed the conversations with her. But around the sixth or seventh chat, she started coming on to my character, and when I politely declined, she basically ignored it. Next thing I know she asks me to run away with her and Qyuzen is calling her my mate and advising me to present her with Wookie fur. All without choosing a single flirt! I just feel annoyed when people say that SGRs would feel forced when romances like this feel so unnatural and involuntary. On a side note, reading through the thread is very entertaining. I love seeing all the tangents you guys go off on, but it makes me feel so happy that people like you are fighting for our rights to express ourselves equally. Keep up the good work! Maybe it went different with a male consular, but with Qyzen it sounded like any mate (present or future) not necessarily Felix or Nadia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TythonAshlaBogan Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Maybe it went different with a male consular, but with Qyzen it sounded like any mate (present or future) not necessarily Felix or Nadia. Yeah, because Nadia is the only romance option for males, he says "It would be fine gift for your little mate Nadia" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saelinne Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Yeah, because Nadia is the only romance option for males, he says "It would be fine gift for your little mate Nadia" Well that is....dialogue go wrong on the writer part, but you have to cut them some slack ...maybe for his species (which I forget what were:)) ) there are no same gender romances so he assumes your mate will be/is the only opposite gender one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Well that is....dialogue go wrong on the writer part, but you have to cut them some slack ...maybe for his species (which I forget what were:)) ) there are no same gender romances so he assumes your mate will be/is the only opposite gender one? Better than Doc, who actively gets irritated at a female PC if you tell him you didn't bring him on board for romance purposes, or Corso who has at least one flirt prompt for a female PC in every single conversation with him up to and including the last one even if you've never picked one ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharmerLeonhart Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Hello there! I'm new to the threads, but have been playing for a while. I just wanted to put in my two cents on the matter. As a gay guy myself, I feel like not only can I not express myself in the game, but that in some cases the OGRs that are already there are shoved at me. Take for instance the Jedi Consular companion Nadia. She is awesome, and I use her a lot, so naturally I followed the conversations with her. But around the sixth or seventh chat, she started coming on to my character, and when I politely declined, she basically ignored it. Next thing I know she asks me to run away with her and Qyuzen is calling her my mate and advising me to present her with Wookie fur. All without choosing a single flirt! I just feel annoyed when people say that SGRs would feel forced when romances like this feel so unnatural and involuntary. On a side note, reading through the thread is very entertaining. I love seeing all the tangents you guys go off on, but it makes me feel so happy that people like you are fighting for our rights to express ourselves equally. Keep up the good work! Hi I have to agree, as a lesbian irl, I have it in my headcanon that three of my five female characters are also lesbians, including my main. (thats my agent, smuggler and inquisitor). The other two are one bi, one straight because there was only one Female PC OGR I wanted to see. I then have two male characters, one gay, one straight.) I'm in Chapter three on my Agent, Voss, and she's heavily LS alligned. I just got up to the scene where: I have to get into a place only Voss can get into. The family tells my character the only way this can be done is through marriage. There's two LS options that force you into it, and a DS option, which is the only way to avoid the marriage, and that involves holding a grieving family hostage. I held them hostage, because there's absolutely no way my Agent would marry him, temporarily or not. I felt bad lol. I mean that's the second time I've had to threaten people to avoid marriage. Temporary or not, it irritates me. Then you have Temple, Vector and Kaliyo who have all at one point or another insisted I have/want a husband/boyfriend/male lover etc and seriously? Even if there was no SGR the least they could do was give us a "I'm not interested in men/women/whatever response". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharmerLeonhart Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Better than Doc, who actively gets irritated at a female PC if you tell him you didn't bring him on board for romance purposes, or Corso who has at least one flirt prompt for a female PC in every single conversation with him up to and including the last one even if you've never picked one ever. I was getting sick of the flirt prompts with Corso... That felt more "forced", since homophobes love using that word, than any SGR options I've seen post-50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Hi I have to agree, as a lesbian irl, I have it in my headcanon that three of my five female characters are also lesbians, including my main. (thats my agent, smuggler and inquisitor). The other two are one bi, one straight because there was only one Female PC OGR I wanted to see. I then have two male characters, one gay, one straight.) I'm in Chapter three on my Agent, Voss, and she's heavily LS alligned. I just got up to the scene where: I have to get into a place only Voss can get into. The family tells my character the only way this can be done is through marriage. There's two LS options that force you into it, and a DS option, which is the only way to avoid the marriage, and that involves holding a grieving family hostage. I held them hostage, because there's absolutely no way my Agent would marry him, temporarily or not. I felt bad lol. I mean that's the second time I've had to threaten people to avoid marriage. Temporary or not, it irritates me. Then you have Temple, Vector and Kaliyo who have all at one point or another insisted I have/want a husband/boyfriend/male lover etc and seriously? Even if there was no SGR the least they could do was give us a "I'm not interested in men/women/whatever response". I've done some thinking on it, and I see the problem as being the idea for TOR at first was likely a set story. Really, our choices never truely mattered. We all got to the same place with a few different dialogues. I'd say it was always suspected the character would marry the one companion and that would leave it at that. The illusion of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I don't mean to keep harping on Corso, but how is complaining about the existence of flirt prompts that you don't have to take any different from the people saying that the inclusion of optional same sex romances means something is being forced on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I don't mean to keep harping on Corso, but how is complaining about the existence of flirt prompts that you don't have to take any different from the people saying that the inclusion of optional same sex romances means something is being forced on them? I think in Corso's case, it's the sheer volume, and his incredibly annoying "if I'm a good friend she'll sleep with me" mentality that SO MANY creepy guys have. It's not like say, Theron or Lana where you can ignore the flirt if it comes up (and after completing Rishi they never show up again if you don't take the [kiss her/him] option at the end). Literally every conversation with Corso, almost every dialogue wheel throughout the conversation has a [flirt] option, sometimes two. And they never go away. You can tell him you'll shoot his dog if he flirts with you again... and next convo, sure enough, there's a [flirt]. Right up until you hit level 50/10,000 affection and he finally stops talking (thank the gods). Sith Koriandr may be correct in that the Devs may have wanted people to romance their companion, but in Corso's case it's way over the top, and really does feel forced on the player. There's a reason basically every female smuggler ever uses Bowdaar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I think in Corso's case, it's the sheer volume, and his incredibly annoying "if I'm a good friend she'll sleep with me" mentality that SO MANY creepy guys have. It's not like say, Theron or Lana where you can ignore the flirt if it comes up (and after completing Rishi they never show up again if you don't take the [kiss her/him] option at the end). Literally every conversation with Corso, almost every dialogue wheel throughout the conversation has a [flirt] option, sometimes two. And they never go away. You can tell him you'll shoot his dog if he flirts with you again... and next convo, sure enough, there's a [flirt]. Right up until you hit level 50/10,000 affection and he finally stops talking (thank the gods). Sith Koriandr may be correct in that the Devs may have wanted people to romance their companion, but in Corso's case it's way over the top, and really does feel forced on the player. There's a reason basically every female smuggler ever uses Bowdaar. In short, everyone worried that same-sex romances will be "forced" on them? They're worried that they'll have a male companion who will treat them like Corso does a lady smuggler, a neverending parade of flirt prompts that never goes away. I've done some thinking on it, and I see the problem as being the idea for TOR at first was likely a set story. Really, our choices never truely mattered. We all got to the same place with a few different dialogues. I'd say it was always suspected the character would marry the one companion and that would leave it at that. The illusion of choice. Eh, I'm willing to forgive the sham marriage in the agent's case. You're a spy, and spend a lot of the game pretending to be someone that you're not. Is a sham paper marriage to accomplish your agent really anything different, even if you're not straight? If you do participate in the marriage, the NPC flatly acknowledges this for the legal loophole that it is and doesn't want to consummate the marriage because they know perfectly well that you don't love them in the slightest and they'll never see you again once you finish your mission and leave Voss. I played my agent as a lesbian, and while she did use flirtation and seduction as tools here and there she was never actually required to sleep with anyone, and for the agent in particular the flirt prompts they take are probably not actually indicative of their romantic or sexual preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Better than Doc, who actively gets irritated at a female PC if you tell him you didn't bring him on board for romance purposes, or Corso who has at least one flirt prompt for a female PC in every single conversation with him up to and including the last one even if you've never picked one ever. The flirt prompt is YOUR option to flirt. Not Corso's option to flirt. You're also a smuggler. Part of the smuggler fun is getting chance to flirt with NPCs, you just get many chances to flirt with Corso. So the flirt prompt is your chance if you decide to take it, to flirt/flirt back. Not that that makes Corso a fun companion, that's all subjective, but Corso isn't the only NPC to have multiple flirt options even after you don't choose one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palar Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 So he's not quite in "But thou must" territory... barely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarmaple Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I'm new to the game, on my first play-through with several classes, and I simply don't have the wherewithal to read through this entire thread at the moment. My apologies! I did want to pop in here and toss my two cents in, for what it's worth. The character's I'm having the most cognitive dissonance with are my (female) Jedi Consular and my (female) Bounty Hunter. The Jedi, because Tharan is currently throwing himself at her, and even though I specifically avoided all of the 'flirt' options and picked dialogue that I thought was essentially safe and neutral, the game essentially railroaded me into having sex with him. This is a problem for me, because on a larger level none of the dialogue options I chose appeared to be explicit consent (seriously how does "you have a girlfriend seriously you have a girlfriend what about your girlfriend" mean "take me now you sexy beast"???), and on a more specific level, my Consular is asexual. It irritated me to the point that I couldn't continue playing until a wrote myself a fix-it fic to purge my lingering negativity toward the character. The Bounty Hunter is frustrating because mine is bi, and I feel like there's so much chemistry between her and Mako and I know that because she is romanceable to a male PC, the only thing that's inhibiting what could be a really cool love story is my PC's gender. I haven't played a male bounty hunter yet, but I get the feeling that Mako was written as a romance option for the male PC, and then simply had the romance dialogue options purged for the female. The chemistry is still there, and it frustrates me. ALSO, some of the dialogue that seems perfectly fine when directed towards a female character strikes me as a little creepy if directed towards a man. All of the mentions of "Braden sees me as just a kid but you see me as an adult" and so on have a lot of baggage for me, personally. That could be just my own perception, but it still creeps me out a little. Basically, I'm bi, and it frustrates me that it's assumed and aggressively pressed towards me that not only are all of my characters going to be straight and any romance they have is going to be a heterosexual one, but ALSO that they are definitely going to want that romance what do you mean you didn't want that romance you're going to have the romance here have it. It does give me motivation to write, though, so...... *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saelinne Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I'm new to the game, on my first play-through with several classes, and I simply don't have the wherewithal to read through this entire thread at the moment. My apologies! I did want to pop in here and toss my two cents in, for what it's worth. The character's I'm having the most cognitive dissonance with are my (female) Jedi Consular and my (female) Bounty Hunter. The Jedi, because Tharan is currently throwing himself at her, and even though I specifically avoided all of the 'flirt' options and picked dialogue that I thought was essentially safe and neutral, the game essentially railroaded me into having sex with him. This is a problem for me, because on a larger level none of the dialogue options I chose appeared to be explicit consent (seriously how does "you have a girlfriend seriously you have a girlfriend what about your girlfriend" mean "take me now you sexy beast"???), and on a more specific level, my Consular is asexual. It irritated me to the point that I couldn't continue playing until a wrote myself a fix-it fic to purge my lingering negativity toward the character. The Bounty Hunter is frustrating because mine is bi, and I feel like there's so much chemistry between her and Mako and I know that because she is romanceable to a male PC, the only thing that's inhibiting what could be a really cool love story is my PC's gender. I haven't played a male bounty hunter yet, but I get the feeling that Mako was written as a romance option for the male PC, and then simply had the romance dialogue options purged for the female. The chemistry is still there, and it frustrates me. ALSO, some of the dialogue that seems perfectly fine when directed towards a female character strikes me as a little creepy if directed towards a man. All of the mentions of "Braden sees me as just a kid but you see me as an adult" and so on have a lot of baggage for me, personally. That could be just my own perception, but it still creeps me out a little. Basically, I'm bi, and it frustrates me that it's assumed and aggressively pressed towards me that not only are all of my characters going to be straight and any romance they have is going to be a heterosexual one, but ALSO that they are definitely going to want that romance what do you mean you didn't want that romance you're going to have the romance here have it. It does give me motivation to write, though, so...... *shrug* I am glad you have found a silver lining there...and it sux that the non [flirt], but still polite responses are treated as [flirt] ones... I guess in such cases they needed to have one more line/dialogue for when he(or she) doesn't take the hint and try to sleep with you:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphrosyne Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 It irritated me to the point that I couldn't continue playing until a wrote myself a fix-it fic to purge my lingering negativity toward the character. I don't like Tharan either, but it is possible to avoid sex with him. Some of the characters in the game are infamous for 'ninjamances', romantic content that sort of sneaks up on you without being clearly delineated as such. Corso and Female Smuggler is the most-cited there, because the actual start to the romance isn't marked as a flirt and is just 'hey Captain wanna get drunk with me'. I don't know if Tharan's...fling...is a ninjamance or not, but I successfully avoided it, as have many other people. While he was obnoxious to an almost ridiculous degree, the game doesn't actually railroad you into letting him nail you. It does, however, assume heterosexuality in all companion romance storylines; if your lady is looking for romance, the menu only has two items: men and marital aids. Hopefully that changes in KotFE. Probably won't, but hopefully it will. Lana's okay, but Jaesa - er, really interested. I know that feel about fix-it fics, though. Couldn't ever quite manage to finish mine, but it did help for awhile. I'm glad you managed to get something out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsfoot Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Ok look i think this has gotten only a little to hostile. I think that adding in SGR into the game is totally ok, i cannot see any reason why it shouldnt be allowed. If you dont want/like SGR heres a list of things you can do: 1. Not choose to put your character into an SGR. (this one is my favorite) its not like the are removing hetro-relationships 2. if, for whatever reason, you are somehow in some inexplicable way forced into an SGR... do what i do when im in an unfortunate situation. I mute my volume, close my eyes and hit spacebar to get through it really fast. 3. have i mentioned that entering into an SGR is completely optional and you DO NOT have to do it. heck you dont have to enter in one period It should not bother you so much that SWTOR wants to be inclusive of all peoples, straight, gay, bi. Lets remember once again that this is a game and romances are not anywhere near one of the key aspects of this game. there are a million better things to complain about in this game than SGRs lets focus on the 1 million first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) The Theran thing is a little weird, because I avoided the flirt options and there was never any point where they went off screen to have sex but later on there is a point where he "breaks up with you" because Holiday keeps zapping him or something. For some reason there is no option to tell him you never were involved in the first place, but I think the logical implication (aside from a bug) is that female consulars were just humoring him. Edited August 12, 2015 by OldVengeance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarmaple Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) I am glad you have found a silver lining there...and it sux that the non [flirt], but still polite responses are treated as [flirt] ones... I guess in such cases they needed to have one more line/dialogue for when he(or she) doesn't take the hint and try to sleep with you I just really thought that was why the marked "flirt" options existed in the first place - to give you control over your character's general actions and attitudes, and therefore control over a branching storyline. If every choice is going to get you to the same place, then I don't see what the point is. I feel like there's no point in labeling [flirt] options if they're not going to label ALL choices lead down that path. It could be something you have the option to toggle on/off like light side/dark side points for the sake of folks that want to be surprised by where the story takes them. It's just that half and half labeling seems pointless. To Euphrosyne I don't know if Tharan's...fling...is a ninjamance or not, but I successfully avoided it, as have many other people. While he was obnoxious to an almost ridiculous degree, the game doesn't actually railroad you into letting him nail you. I went back and watched a few different takes on the conversation to verify my own memory of it, and the conversation branch goes essentially like this: Tharan flirts at you. You have the option to flirt back, call it a cheap line, or make a positive nonsexual comment on his problem solving skills, which is what I picked. Then, he propositions you, at which point you can [flirt], tell him to get back to work, or remind him that he's already got a lady (again, my choice). If you bring up Holiday, he'll give you a gross spiel about how their relationship is special but not completely fulfilling and this is just a bit of fun on the side anyway so it's totally ok. At this point you have the choice to refuse outright (what I should have done), shrug and go "well she'll never find out anyway" which seems dumb as well as callous since she's literally integrated into the ship's computer by this point and presumably has access to all of it's sensors so there's no way she wouldn't know, or "I was just checking" which chose because I erroneously interpreted as another gentle decline, but actually results in your character going "well no one can say I didn't ask! *cheeky wink*" and walking off to fade to black with him. My problem really was that I interpreted all of the clear refusal options as unnecessarily hostile. I didn't want to send him back to work or call him sleazy, but I also didn't want to sleep with him. I thought I could navigate a middle ground, but I failed. The Theran thing is a little weird, because I avoided the flirt options and there was never any point where they went off screen to have sex but later on there is a point where he "breaks up with you" because Holiday keeps zapping him or something. For some reason there is no option to tell him you never were involved in the first place, but I think the logical implication (aside from a bug) is that female consulars were just humoring him. Oh, I know I'll end up writing a fix-it fic for that conversation, too! Edited August 12, 2015 by Sugarmaple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphrosyne Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) My problem really was that I interpreted all of the clear refusal options as unnecessarily hostile. I didn't want to send him back to work or call him sleazy, but I also didn't want to sleep with him. I thought I could navigate a middle ground, but I failed. Oh. Yeah, I didn't have a problem with either of those. As far as 'things to say to refuse someone's advances', they're both really pretty tame, in my experience. Edited August 12, 2015 by Euphrosyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Tharan is currently throwing himself at her, and even though I specifically avoided all of the 'flirt' options and picked dialogue that I thought was essentially safe and neutral, the game essentially railroaded me into having sex with him. This is a problem for me, because on a larger level none of the dialogue options I chose appeared to be explicit consent (seriously how does "you have a girlfriend seriously you have a girlfriend what about your girlfriend" mean "take me now you sexy beast"???), and on a more specific level, my Consular is asexual. I don't know why so many people are having Tharan problems. He never bothered my Consular at all. Edit: In fact, I had to get pretty pushy to get him to sleep with my Consular, when I wanted to see the Holiday-bed-zapping thing for myself. Edited August 12, 2015 by Diviciacus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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