ufarax Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The adding of same gender romance does not make sense financially. The LGBT population is under 3%, of that 3% how many play MMO’s, in particular SWTOR. The numbers are not there. They can implement it, out of a sense of fairness…affirmative action in an MMO?:D:D http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/15/gay-lesbian-bisexual-cdc-survey/12671717/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadess Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Posts like the one above, and others that like it that push against the inclusion of SGR age why this that is needed. If this thread dies, they've won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) Posts like the one above, and others that like it that push against the inclusion of SGR age why this that is needed. If this thread dies, they've won. Uhh considering this thread, or one it's many previous incarnations to be exact, has been going on since 3 years *before* the game launched, it's pretty obvious BW either has no desire, or no permission to add such content. More importantly, the majority of people wanting this type of content enough to take the effort to post here have already given up and moved on. Edited January 14, 2015 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadess Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Uhh considering this thread, or one it's many previous incarnations to be exact, has been going on since 3 years *before* the game launched, it's pretty obvious BW either has no desire, or no permission to add such content. More importantly, the majority of people wanting this type of content enough to take the effort to post here have already given up and moved on. If that's true then there would have been 0 of it in Makeb and Shadow of Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 More importantly, the majority of people wanting this type of content enough to take the effort to post here have already given up and moved on. No, I think we're mostly still here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Guys, sorry for crashing in like this, but is there anyone who has a link for the time they mentioned that SGR for Vanilla companions was a big "No"? That they'd rather try it out on new companions, and the original ones wouldn't be expanded or reworked? ^^ Been a while, but anyone by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The adding of same gender romance does not make sense financially. The LGBT population is under 3%, of that 3% how many play MMO’s, in particular SWTOR. The numbers are not there. They can implement it, out of a sense of fairness…affirmative action in an MMO?:D:D http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/15/gay-lesbian-bisexual-cdc-survey/12671717/ This is simply not true, because this assumes that heterosexual players do not chose the SGR options. Lord Cytherat is one of the best romantic encounters in the game, and in SoR, thanks to the SGR, for the first time in SWTOR my female toons had two NPCs competing for their attention. Lana Beniko is the only Force User in the whole game who flirts with a female PC. I am not going to miss out on fun romantic content simply because I, the player, am neither a male, nor a lesbian. In a game like that the fun is that you can create a character with his or her own story, including his or her own choices of romances. I am glad BioWARE is giving us more options, and it’s a pity they did not do it from the start with the original companions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Posts like the one above, and others that like it that push against the inclusion of SGR age why this that is needed. If this thread dies, they've won. Not really. Here is the thing. Remember Bioware is owned by EA, EA cares about ROI. If they can have inclusion while getting a good ROI they will do it. If they can't then they won't. So they will look at how much it costs. Will it require additional art work and/or animations, voice acting etc in cut scenes? If so what is the budget for it? If it is an IP that is focused at a younger demographic will not having a toggle that Mom and Dad can click will that cost them sales? These are all things a company like EA concerns themselves about. They could care less about fostering inclusion. This isn't the same as saying they are against it BTW, it is just that their raison d'etre is to make money. If they can make the same, or even better more, profit with inclusion they will do it indeed but if it will cut into their profits by requiring more development costs or cost them more sales than they will gain, then they won't do it. NOT because they are against inclusion, simply because they are for maximizing profits. Is it cold logic devoid of a social consciousness? Yep. Most people however invest in companies however for the ROI they will get and they expect their investment to be used in a similarly focused manner. Edited January 15, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 The adding of same gender romance does not make sense financially. The LGBT population is under 3%, of that 3% how many play MMO’s, in particular SWTOR. The numbers are not there. They can implement it, out of a sense of fairness…affirmative action in an MMO?:D:D http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/15/gay-lesbian-bisexual-cdc-survey/12671717/ I'm straight as an arrow (I find nothing appealing about men, I can't even judge if a guy is objectively attractive or not. Other guys just look like guys and nothing else) yet I sometimes go for the male/male romance in games just to see what happens. Same with fem/fem if I play a fem char. There are many people like me I've met in-game who don't identify wth characters they play and instead, the characters are separate from their personality, a thing they control and for us, our personal preferences (sexual or otherwise) have no bearing whatsoever on the choices we make in games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 This is simply not true, because this assumes that heterosexual players do not chose the SGR options. Lord Cytherat is one of the best romantic encounters in the game, and in SoR, thanks to the SGR, for the first time in SWTOR my female toons had two NPCs competing for their attention. Lana Beniko is the only Force User in the whole game who flirts with a female PC. I am not going to miss out on fun romantic content simply because I, the player, am neither a male, nor a lesbian. In a game like that the fun is that you can create a character with his or her own story, including his or her own choices of romances. I am glad BioWARE is giving us more options, and it’s a pity they did not do it from the start with the original companions. I think you are missing his point. More options are great...thing is if implementing more options costs more money than it makes then they don't do it. Now even if a lot of heterosexual players picked SGR how many of these players would say "I will not play the game without a SGR option"? This is the type of thinking Bean counters do. Their sense of social consciousness, is greatly informed by cost benefit analysis. When players simply want options they say not only " how many players will use these options" BUT "how many players will not play without these options." If the cost of adding the options does not get, at least, balanced by the revenue generated by those demanding the option, they probably won't do it. Just look at the lack of advancing the personal stories of our original companions in the expac. Why? Yes lots of us would have liked it. I feel like I left something "hanging" with one of my character's romances. BUT the cost of the cut scenes and voice acting etc was more than they could justify because the number of players for whom a continuation of the stories was make or break simply didn't register high enough on the bean counter's spread sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Just look at the lack of advancing the personal stories of our original companions in the expac. Why? Yes lots of us would have liked it. I feel like I left something "hanging" with one of my character's romances. BUT the cost of the cut scenes and voice acting etc was more than they could justify because the number of players for whom a continuation of the stories was make or break simply didn't register high enough on the bean counter's spread sheet. If they decide to add more companion dialogue in general, which I believe everyone can agree would be welcome and a good use of time and money, adding [Flirt] lines of conversations and romances, same-sex or otherwise, would cost no more or less than any other lines of dialogue in such conversations. Lana has been a welcome addition to the game, though I'm going to be very surprised at this point if Bioware lets her and my lady hunter so much as kiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 If they decide to add more companion dialogue in general, which I believe everyone can agree would be welcome and a good use of time and money, adding [Flirt] lines of conversations and romances, same-sex or otherwise, would cost no more or less than any other lines of dialogue in such conversations. Lana has been a welcome addition to the game, though I'm going to be very surprised at this point if Bioware lets her and my lady hunter so much as kiss. Prepare to be surprised then. More than once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Prepare to be surprised then. More than once. Ah, good. Still working my way through Rishi, so it seems the relationship isn't over yet. My left arm to replace Skadge with Lana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Ah, good. Still working my way through Rishi, so it seems the relationship isn't over yet. My left arm to replace Skadge with Lana. Female player characters could ALREADY kiss a female NPC during RotHC, Republic-side; that character was apparently bisexual however. Imperial player characters, on the other hand, provided they were male, could do the same with a male NPC; the latter was apparently homosexual. ^^ The above was ALSO during RotHC. It was a fairly minor thing, but it was something all the same. Edited January 15, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 ^^ The above was ALSO during RotHC. It was a fairly minor thing, but it was something all the same. Ah, that would do it. I had last played just long enough to do Makeb. Everything after that has been all new to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrrant Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) My left arm to replace Skadge with Lana. ...my left arm to replace Skadge with a sack of mute potatoes... EDIT: Oh, and regarding the Republic LI on Makeb, IIRC she wasn't exactly bisexual. She shows little interest in male PC's, although can be cajoled into kissing them for 'luck'. ...which is a little creepy, on reflection... But the point is that she actually shows an interest in a female PC, and is utterly indifferent towards male ones, to the point where the post-Makeb mail towards male PC's isn't even from her. Edited January 15, 2015 by Kyrrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) EDIT: Oh, and regarding the Republic LI on Makeb, IIRC she wasn't exactly bisexual. She shows little interest in male PC's, although can be cajoled into kissing them for 'luck'. ...which is a little creepy, on reflection... But the point is that she actually shows an interest in a female PC, and is utterly indifferent towards male ones, to the point where the post-Makeb mail towards male PC's isn't even from her. No. Her reaction towards both genders preceding the kissing is identical. Number of available flirts is also the same. In fact, female player characters are the ones who say they'd like a kiss for luck, not just the text, which is a bit different. EDIT: Plus, if they wanted to convey the idea that Lemda is NOT bisexual but rather homosexual, they would have done the same they did with Cytharat. Edited January 15, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 If they decide to add more companion dialogue in general, which I believe everyone can agree would be welcome and a good use of time and money, adding [Flirt] lines of conversations and romances, same-sex or otherwise, would cost no more or less than any other lines of dialogue in such conversations. Lana has been a welcome addition to the game, though I'm going to be very surprised at this point if Bioware lets her and my lady hunter so much as kiss. Well some people here were talking about reduxing the old stuff to include SGR and that would clearly cost money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Well some people here were talking about reduxing the old stuff to include SGR and that would clearly cost money. On the other hand, in a companion-focused update, adding SGR content to existing companions would cost nothing more or less than any other lines of dialogue. For example, I'd dearly love an option to space Skadge and replace him with just about anyone. Lana Beniko, Thana Vesh, the GenoHaradan guy who wanted out of the organization, a large rock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) On the other hand, in a companion-focused update, adding SGR content to existing companions would cost nothing more or less than any other lines of dialogue. For example, I'd dearly love an option to space Skadge and replace him with just about anyone. Lana Beniko, Thana Vesh, the GenoHaradan guy who wanted out of the organization, a large rock... I get the feeling you don't like Skadge very much. Am I incorrect by any chance? Just trying to be sure. Edited January 16, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jovianus Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I get the feeling you don't like Skadge very much. Am I incorrect by any chance? Just trying to be sure. Does anybody actually like Skadge? Pretty sure he comes it at number 1 every time there's a 'worst companion' discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Does anybody actually like Skadge? Pretty sure he comes it at number 1 every time there's a 'worst companion' discussion. If you take into account his background, plus his behavior on Belsavis, he's probably the MOST loathsome companion in the entire game. His lines during combat make me laugh though. He's also so stupid you can actually poke fun at him, and still gain affection points all the same. Edited January 16, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrrant Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Eh, guess I had it wrong. Could've sworn different stuff came after though... If you take into account his background, plus his behavior on Belsavis, he's probably the MOST loathsome companion in the entire game. His lines during combat make me laugh though. He's also so stupid you can actually poke fun at him, and still gain affection points all the same. Here's the reason why Skadge is so hated. It's not that he's evil and loathesome. Tanno Vik, Lord Scourge, Lieutenant Pierce, Qyzen Vess, Khem Val, Broonmark, Zenith... there's plenty of companions that are either evil or have seriously loathsome outlooks in areas (Qyzen's carefree Wookiee murder is a big problem with me, for example). The problem is that he's evil and loathesome... and BORING. Tanno and Pierce have a certain charm to them, Khem and Vess have this unwavering loyalty due to honor, Scourge and Zenith have compelling reasons behind their evilness, Broonmark's... just freaking nuts. All there is with Scourge is this ugly, loathesome behavior, vacuous morality, zero nobility, no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and not even in anything resembling an amusing way. Its like Mako, Blizz, Torian and Gault got together, took all the charm, likeability, purpose and wit for themselves, and left Skadge with just a pile of muscles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 On the other hand, in a companion-focused update, adding SGR content to existing companions would cost nothing more or less than any other lines of dialogue. For example, I'd dearly love an option to space Skadge and replace him with just about anyone. Lana Beniko, Thana Vesh, the GenoHaradan guy who wanted out of the organization, a large rock... I would say it would be more expensive. First it would require redoing cut scenes. Look at the relative heights and shapes of male and female characters...these would have to be redone. Second it could require some redux on voice acting...are those actors available or would they have to redo it. Second story wise it would be jarring for me. It would be no worries for a new toon but a level 60? And if you said "only for new toons" other people would complain... Basically more money and more trouble that it is likely worth. New companions though...not as much an issue. I would suggest this though. If sexual preference was to become truly variable, for story purposes I think they should do what they do in a book. Have some companions bi, some straight, some gay. Han Solo doesn't suddenly say to Lando "I have always loved you" and plant a big wet one on him (outside of fan fiction). If for the sake of a story SGR is important then it is equally important to have characters that would react in different ways to such proposals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) I would say it would be more expensive. First it would require redoing cut scenes. Look at the relative heights and shapes of male and female characters...these would have to be redone. Second it could require some redux on voice acting...are those actors available or would they have to redo it. Second story wise it would be jarring for me. It would be no worries for a new toon but a level 60? And if you said "only for new toons" other people would complain... Basically more money and more trouble that it is likely worth. New companions though...not as much an issue. Redoing cutscenes would be no problem, because they have to fit the four different male body types. Adding the four female body types wouldn't be an issue, and if Bioware's recording more companion dialogue anyway that's not a concern. Story-wise, what's so jarring about an NPC mentioning that they're gay or bi once they've come to trust the PC? If for the sake of a story SGR is important then it is equally important to have characters that would react in different ways to such proposals. They do exactly this in Dragon Age: Inquisition, actually. And you can even flirt with characters who can't be romanced at all. The biggest problem for adding SGR to existing companions, though, is that almost every companion who isn't an especially weird alien or a droid is already a heterosexual romance option, and remove the "almost" for female companions, counting dark-side Jaesa. Talos and light-side Jaesa are the only two who come to mind for human or near-human companions who aren't already a romance option. And only three classes even have more than one female companion at all. The solution in my mind: add more companions, especially female companions. Edited January 16, 2015 by Cythereal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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