Keybind or Clicky Clicky?

[Jadescythe]

It's easy to see people who don't keybind when they slowly rotate one way or the other because mouse turning is unavailable. Can you be effective without keybinding? As a sorc healer, yes, but you'll still be better if not clicking. The time you lose moving from ops frame to clicking the ability alone is a loss of 1-2 seconds per heal. These are the people eating green circles in the second phase of DG, not getting out of red circles fast enough on NiM T&Z, etc because they can't click and pay attention to mechanics at the same time.

 

If all you are going to run is HM FPs and some SM Ops then fine, but if you want to progress further and not be carried you'll have to start keybinding.

[Larry_Dallas]

Click the heals (have a bar going parallel to the ops frame so I barely lose time), bind all non-heals on all characters. Just works better for me that way.

 

I do bind the heals too, but only really use the bindings in pvp while being attacked, not in ops.

[Larry_Dallas]

I don't get how I am less effective at movement. I move and heal better than most healers I normally play with, perhaps I don't see the problem because I am not a pure clicker, nor am I a pure button masher. I do both. Also according to group logs I usually have the highest HPS, the highest EHPS and almost always have the highest number of heals.

 

Not arguing dps, since DPS I do almost exclusively use keybinds. Because in that case I am better at dps doing it that way, in the case of healing, I am better a using both methods. It isn't a matter of being more comfortable with one or the other, it is a fact proven by our guild group logs that I am better the way I am doing it. I went back not because it was easy to clicky, clicky, I changed back because it was better for the group by some 400 hps.

 

He's probably assuming you use the mouse, and just the mouse, to move, which would make you stationary while using any ability.

 

I'm in the exact same boat you are (click heals, bind dps) and, if you're anything like me, you use the mouse to move sometimes and qweasd to move other times on your healer.

[ChicagoBearsFan]

People will argue till they are blue in the face that their way is the right way... in the end it is personal preference. Its nice that we have the option to do either clicking or keybinding (or even a little of both). Try both ways out and make up your own mind as to which is better.

[mikebevo]

I didn't use the mouse to move even when I was strictly a clicker. I can also very easily look about without using the mouse and be healing while I look around. I also have the heals bound, but using them while moving does affect my movement since they bound on my left hand side.

[bbare]

For Healing, key binding is the single most effective way of increasing your healing effectiveness. Unless you are able to move your mouse like a South Korean playing Starcraft, key binding is much more effective. You can get away with clicking in hard mode flashpoints, but you will have problems in the tougher operations like HM TFB and NiM EC Edited January 25, 2013 by bbare

[mikebevo]

, but you will have problems in the tougher operations like HM TFB and NiM EC

No I don't.

 

I am not saying keybinding isn't the way for most people to go, I am just saying I AM BETTER with a HYBRID-SYSTEM of using both. I know I am not the greatest healer, I am still learning, but I do know enough to be able to read combat logs and tell which one shows more hps and more heals applied. Either way I do it, I am more than adequate to heal any 8 man content in game.

 

I have only done a couple 16 man runs, but I am actually tempted to agree with the keybinding augment in that case. Last time we did nightmare pilgrim, it did seem faster and easier to use keybinds for heals. So that was what I did. Other times we did 16 man were HMEV and we only used two healers, but it was such a joke mainly did dps, but I still could see how that number in ops frames would be easier to do using keybindings. So I stand somewhat corrected, it is just with 8 and my set up, it is not take 1 or 2 seconds to click twice.

[Thundergulch]

Makes you laugh ? How much of the content have you cleared ? 8 man/ 16 man ? what guild are you in ?

 

Only thing I haven't done/tried is NiM EC,

Cleared all other content, and currently in HM TFB.

Happy now? Do you want a picture of my epeen too?

 

edited: *haven't

Edited January 25, 2013 by Thundergulch

[mcslack]

Well thx evry1. I kinda knew that binding is the most efficient method for vast majority. Someone mentioned start a new toon and learn from scratch. This is prob. what ill do. I wana change with my current toon but thats the hard and scary part. Old habits.

But thankz alot 2 all for speaking up.

[IrishTR]

I guess I'm hybrid keybind/clicker type as I utilize both. I'm quite comfortable with my play style and believe I get the job done equally if not better than most others that I have played with

 

And yes I'm a healer who heals thru all content to include NiM EC. And I'm usually the highest healer of the 8/16man clears for HM TFB/NiM EC (to include healers in group who argue the fact they are clickers they are better - yet they haven't toppled me yet). Do what you are comfortable with as your play style, forget what others try to indoctrinate and claim as factual (because they say so information) There is no factual/scientific proof that one is greater than the other as far as SWTOR is concerned. It is holistically based on the "Human" operator of said input devices (to which are varying factors to begin with as different hardware plays part) and their abilities that not everyone is equal/capable and there is no level playing field to make any factual/scientific states as such, unless we are all using the same brain, same muscles, same body and same hardware to evaluate and create a baseline for analysis.

 

And you don't have to be a South Korean on Starcraft, its called quick reflexes/responses.

[kanare]

All top dps in the rankings use key bidnings look at ec nim top dps world rankings list , all key binders see a pattern .... same with healers ......

Edited January 27, 2013 by kanare

[kanare]

Im not saying key binding is better, but look at the facts!! top ranked dps do more dps and use key binds, if you want to be the best think about it , im not saying key binding is better , actully i am sry all gl with what you want to do ....... try key binding properly you will soon see this for your self, if you are new to key binds play a vangard you only need like 5 , gl have fun

Edited January 27, 2013 by kanare

[SharpG]

A pure clicker will NEVER be able to play a melee character as well as a keybinder when it comes to fights that require heavy movement or PvP. When it comes to ranged classes, clicking is much more viable in PvE thanks to heavy reliance on cast times and channeled abilities over instant abilities and abilities off the GCD. In PvP mobility is king though.

 

Over all keybinding is far more efficient, but based on some individuals that's not always the case.

Edited January 27, 2013 by SharpG

[Gyronamics]

It's easy to see people who don't keybind when they slowly rotate one way or the other because mouse turning is unavailable. Can you be effective without keybinding? As a sorc healer, yes, but you'll still be better if not clicking. The time you lose moving from ops frame to clicking the ability alone is a loss of 1-2 seconds per heal. These are the people eating green circles in the second phase of DG, not getting out of red circles fast enough on NiM T&Z, etc because they can't click and pay attention to mechanics at the same time.

 

If all you are going to run is HM FPs and some SM Ops then fine, but if you want to progress further and not be carried you'll have to start keybinding.

 

 

Fascinating stuff.

 

 

 

 

Do tell me what you think I've done in pve and elaborate more on how carried I am.

 

Also what is this keyboard turning you speak of...

 

 

I don't really give one for what anyone else does since its the output that matters and confidence in your own character control is always the main thing.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Gyronamics

[Krewel]

I am genuinely interested in seeing a video of a clicker healer performing successfully, meaning topping meters and breezing through Kephess on NiM, because I simply cannot fathom someone clicking individual raid frames and then also clicking healing abilities, while being constantly on the move (or having the potential to move), on top of that being able to turn 90 degrees in a split-second (without keyboard turning, of course), not to mention that personally, as an Operative healer, I usually resort to DPS-ing (such as blowing Orbital Strike when occasion arises), not to mention the fact that as a full clicker you simply cannot, as a marauder, constantly circle your target and execute your dps rotation in a timely manner ... I am also interested why someone would handicap himself/herself so much when the alternative is clearly superior if you wish to gain every advantage full keybinding playstyle offers you. Mainly using the mouse for moving your character - left button for clicking raid frames, certain targets (like quickly selecting warrior trandoshan at Kephess), right button for quick and efficient moving ... even more functionality if you have Naga, etc. and then using keybinds for quick and efficient selection and execution of your abilities means that you are effectively dividing the tasks of your character's performance between your left and right hand, producing maneuverability unmatched in mere clicking.

 

As a full clicker, as I mentioned above regarding to melee dps, you cannot execute your barrage of abilities while constantly circling the target (literally going 360° around the target while performing your dps rotation without any hindrance). You might say that constantly circling the target is nonsensical; however, this extreme case clearly illustrates that making your peformance depend entirely on clicking makes you immobile to a certain degree. Also a peculiar case, I am usually charged with dpsing the droids at Operator IX HM when they're trying to interrupt the channelers. As an Op healer, I have an array of melee abilities at my disposal, and at that moment stunning the droids, circling around them quickly to backstab and slow them down, not to mention throwing occasional heals around the players, cannot be performed effectively with clicking only.

 

To be honest, I am not in the least surprised there are two threads going on concerning clickers on these forums right now and that so many defend this inferior playstyle and that said people have neither experienced WoW raiding progression nor Arena PvP. After a whole year seeing all sorts of dribble and terrible performance from a wide variety of players, and the fact that this game offers very few challenges (if any) this type of "clicker apology" comes as no surprise. The fact is in this game, at least on the general level, clickers can perform adequately through basically every type of content available, their playstyle in this game offers no change in perspective, only further encouragement, and that is why many will flock to this notion that "clicking vs. keybinds" is merely a matter of taste.

 

It is also extremely depressing seeing that we have to start explaining such basic facts here. SWTOR sure lags behind the times, I believe these "clicker vs. keybind" threads in WoW were popular about five years ago.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Krewel

[CommanderKeeva]

So Im in the process of learning 2 bind. This to me is a very difficult changeout. It'd be much easier to stay with my toolset of mouse and shift than 2 learn all over again. Ive read alot about how some say it's critical for endgame and some say no big deal if u dont. Ultimately I would say that if ur good at either thats all that matters, right?

Right now im holding my own in tier 1 hard's( not great but keep peeps alive as a sage). I need 2 learn far more about mechanic's than how 2 deploy abilities. So how do all u skilled endgamers run ur mission's? Specifically are there any clicker's out there that run ops with little or no binding? Im rather new to this so if my noob colors r shining bright please use the rose colored glasses.

THX all/ any and all comments appreciated

 

 

Im updating OP due 2 a stupid reply and an equally nonconstructive response by me 2 said reply. I like those for and against so thx and keep it up. The post's hav been removed(as they should) and lets continue. Sorry to open a can of worms.

 

Yes, keybinds are kind of mandatory at endgame because they save you time you can otherwise spend on more important things. The time between moving your mouse over an ability and pressing a button can often mean the difference between life and death as a healer. Besides you want your mouse over the ops frames all the time as a healer since tabbing between allies is impossible. Clicking on a frame, then clicking on an ability, then clicking on another frame and clicking on another ability doesn't just make healing slow and cumbersome but it will also make your mouse hand hurt in a long operation or flashpoint.

 

FYI most keybinds are very simple. Buttons from 1-6 (depending on the length of your fingers), then the same numbers with CTRL, SHIFT and ALT. Group abilities by type on one bar (e.g. I have a damage bar, a healing bar, a utlity bar, a legacy bar, a miscellaneous bar and a party bar) for consistency. Bind interrupts and cooldowns to your mouse if you can. Your mouse needs to have at least 4-5 buttons but even the cheapest ones nowadays have that many. Having a Razer with 10+ buttons is a nice status symbol but it's overkill imho. I have 7 buttons on my mouse and never really felt the need for more.

 

So yeah start with simple keybinds 1-6 numbers and same with CTRL, ALT and SHIFT. When you get comfortable with those, you can start binding letters on the left side.

[mcslack]

As im new Im not really a proper one 2 judge, but, It kinda looks to me like your 3rd video is a pvp clicky ownage. Im also pretty sure that ill never rise to that level of skilled play but who knows.

Thank you and well done.

[mcslack]

"It is also extremely depressing seeing that we have to start explaining such basic facts here. SWTOR sure lags behind the times, I believe these "clicker vs. keybind" threads in WoW were popular about five years ago."

 

I agree however myself and many others hav never played an MMO. Which is why im here asking many questions. There dosnt seem to b a point in the game where a mission pops up and says "now is when u learn to bind".

Again thx 2 all

Edited January 27, 2013 by mcslack

[moonshoter]

Both ..

[TheNegotiator]

It's apples or oranges. Just because you have hot keys doesn't mean you don't have to move your hand to click the key, unless you do everything from the mouse, and I hate trying to click the side of the mouse.

 

I click and do fine in both PvE and PvP. in fact with my click setup I never have to look at the keyboard at all, so I never miss what is going on in front of me.

 

Now if you had a foot clicker...

[CJAShadow]

Without south korean clicking ability (150-300 clicks per minute), I have no idea who clickers can keep up with much of the content there is and play their class to their full potential.

 

In this game their are moves that are off the GCD (tank skills, taunts, threat drops, INTERRUPTS) which to get the most out of your character, you must be able to cast 2 skills at once.

 

I have no idea just on Nightmare Pilgrim how someone can hit their 7th skill on their hotkey bar AND get back to their interrupt in time to stop a 1 second with lag Gore.

 

I myself am a little bit strange as I actually moved my movement keys from wasd to esdf since I can hit A with my pinky while strafing and casting other stuff.

 

This is also very dependent on the class. I could see classes with lots of cast bars not needing keybinds as much while those that dont only ever using keybinds.

 

Play however you want to and will make you happy in the game, but in my opinion, if you have to use your mouse twice to heal someone in an ops frame, twice to switch targets as a dps or tank, twice to attack or taunt, that is 1 time too many while your other hand can be doing it.

 

Of course, I came from a game with no GCD, just animation delay (if you were good enough, you could skip the delay), and starcraft. I play every game like an FPS, imagine doing that with clickies lol.

[anstalt]

I was a clicker for the first 4 years of my MMO life, through LOTRO and WAR. I did well, I raided at the highest levels, I pvped and did fine. In short, I was a clicker and I could do everything.

 

When I came to SW:TOR, I made a conscious effort to keybind. I'd never done it before so didn't know what to expect. I got a cheapish gaming mouse which only has 2 thumb buttons. I have bound those two buttons to "shift" and "alt". As a result, I now keybind 36 abilities using 12 keys near to WASD and the mouse thumb buttons.

 

In terms of skill level / improvement, its been massive! The difference in PvE isn't hugely noticable because as a DPS, hitting 1 skill every 1.5seconds is pretty easy with clicking, and moving using WASD + QE for strafing means you can avoid stuff / circle stuff whilst clicking. However, its the extra stuff that clicking can't do. So, interupts for example. Keybinding is virtually instantaneous whereas clicking takes long. On my guardian, having "riposte" keybound means I can use it off the GCD instantly instead of taking time to move my mouse.

 

The biggest difference is definitely in PvP. In LOTRO I basically used to circle-strafe around an opponant using Q+A (strafe + turn) or D+E. This was effective against other clickers and newbies but as soon as I found someone good who used keybinds, they'd out-manuver me every time so they'd double my damage simply by denying me the ability to use a skill! The same is true in TOR. Now that I keybind, I spot the keyboard turners in PvP. I can literally stand behind them the entire time whilst they try to turn / run etc but they fail.

 

 

 

The hardest part with keybind is finding the right setup. Clicking is easy: move ur mouse and click. Keybind is hard, you'll be using finders and thumbs that you normally wouldn't use, you'll be hitting keys you normally wouldn't so it takes longer to learn. But, if you are serious about endgame content then it is worth it. Clicking works well enough, but keybinding IS better IF you have the patience to stick with it.

[Hovergame]

Most layers are usualy using an hybrid system. How to attck AND interrupt ? Put your interrupt on your mouse ? Hpw to cast 2 spells at the same time ? Put on "easy to reach" with your left hand and press the button, while your mouse if clicking on the second one ? How to switch targets ? Press tab.

 

On my DPS Commando, I'm using :

1 Hammer shot

2 Grav Round

3 Full Auto

4 Demolition Round

5 High impact bolt

 

And 5 spels are enough for my left hand, who is spamming the keys. For the rest, I can easily reach them with my mouse without And yes, I need to watch my UI, I need to check my procs. Same goes for my Sentinel (even if I need a few more spells, I just keep the low CD one on 1-5).

 

Edit : PVE wise, we downed everything except Kephess in Denova NiM, just because we tried Denova NiM only 4 times, and always starting from the beggining.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Hovergame

[Sydexlic]

This makes me laugh,Just because you or others are unable to be effective with clicking, doesn't mean it's inferior in pve.

In pvp yes, that argument is valid.

 

The same criteria that make key binding superior in PvP apply equally as much in PvE. Just as in PvP, your efficacy is a function of your reaction times, your situational awareness and your mobility. All of which are improved, unquestionably, by key binding.

 

I have seen very skilled clickers, even doing end-game content such as EC Nightmare Kephess. To that OP DPS i saw that video of, kudos to you for making clicking work to that extent. However, it's undeniable fact that key binding is more efficient in those 3 key performance metrics, situational awareness, reaction times and mobility.

 

I'm not talking out my arse either. I'm a Warstalker title holder, part of the 2nd group in the world to obtain it. I also killed EC NiM Kephess 2nd in the world.

 

: This is me in action. You'll see I'm able to freely use the mouse to constantly monitor my surrounds, my ability usage is instant when I want to activate them and I can do so while having complete control over my movement, directionally and whilst strafing. All things that are impossible or made much more difficult by being tied to clicking.

 

Learn to keybind, you'll be a better player in the long run.

[Stacksamus]

I like to use a Razor Naga Epic along with a Logitech G13. I then alter my UI in game so I have the first four bars as 3 columns by 4 rows, which then matches the exact layout of the 12 buttons on the side of my mouse. I setup the G13 with all the buttons I need, but as my fingers sit, it is 'Shift key' under my pinky finger and 'Ctrl key' under that 'Shift Key' and 'Alt Key' under my thumb. This means without really moving my hand, I have instant access to 48 abilities. As I setup 2nd bar as Shift Modifier, 3rd bar as Alt modifier and 4th bar as Ctrl modifier. It took a while to get used to and learn things, but once you learn where all the bits are, it is game on.

 

On my Sniper for example, I can hold shift and slide my thumb across the bottom row of keys on the mouse (0, -, = amd 9), which deploys all my defensive abilities instantly.