Thoughts on these Carnage/Combat Parses?

[IAmViiOLENT]

Just reposting these to the Repub side mirror forums so I can get some people to see these.

 

Over in the mara forums, a challenge was issued to make vexo/keelling shut up or put up a 2150 parse with No Bloodthirst. Vexo responded with this parse http://www.torparse.com/a/97111/time/1357933939/1357934292/0/Overview. A 2163 (without edit at end its 2106) parse with no Bloodthirst OR adrenals. Now, my point here is that DPSCraft sims put a full 63 mara at 2150ish dps with no armor debuff but with all CD's. This is essentially what this is http://www.torparse.com/a/98355/time/1358133486/1358133796/0/Damage+Dealt No armor debuff, use of all CD's, comes out to around 2150ish dps. This is a normal parse for a high end raiding sent/mara.

 

Now, how exactly is one mara suddenly doing 100 more DPS than any other mara/sent in the world (Possibly more) when we use no adrenals or bloodthirsts? He uses near identical rotations, nothing special there. Yet, as he claims he can parse at 2150 with no armor debuff, no BT, and no Adrenals. yet, he's never even posted a 2200+ parse with BT and adrenals? Surely, someone so good could pull another 100 dps out of those two items and break 2250 even?

It's pretty simple, he had a friend armor debuff his target. That's your missing 100 dps right there. I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting really really annoyed listening to Vexo and Okuy/Keeling telling everyone about how they're the best, then posting nothing but average parses then suddenly posting up something thats 100 higher than should realistically be possible.

 

Please, if I'm full of garbage; let me know. If you agree, let me know. I don't particularly care either way, but this kind of stuff is beyond ridiculous.

[Solaufein]

Combat logs can be edited in WordPad.

[BlznSmri]

I could give two sh*ts less about what numbers these guys are pulling, it's just their attitudes. What the hell does it matter to be the highest DPS? I mean, GG, you're good at a game, BFD.

[slafko]

What do combat parses have to do with anything?

 

People should be more focused on prioritising targets, using their team buffs and timing their interrupts appropriately. If you're beating on an elite while a dozen of strong and weak mobs are ****** your healer or if you're flailing your lighstabers like there's no tomorrow but ultimately not interrupting a skill that will stun your tank - I don't care if you pull over 9000 dps, you're still bad.

[Bugattiboy]

Don't really care. Also, whenever someone posts a "really good parse" I just think:

Congratulations, you got a really high numbers in a controlled environment where you can make everything happen exactly the way you want it to. So...uhh...yeah...want a cookie?

[Omophorus]

I could give two sh*ts less about what numbers these guys are pulling, it's just their attitudes. What the hell does it matter to be the highest DPS? I mean, GG, you're good at a game, BFD.

 

I like high parses, because they help illustrate more ideal play. I can learn from them what I'm doing wrong to make myself better (I always run under the assumption that someone is doing something closer to perfect than I am, and it's generally mechanical/tactical and can be replicated).

 

Their attitudes, however, are out of control. Every time Vexo opens his yap, I have a hard time not speaking up, because he's just such a smug, condescending jerk. The even funnier part is that in actual content, his numbers are nothing special. He claims to have logs he doesn't upload that are drastically higher, but then doesn't really do anything to prove it.

 

It's much more helpful to the community to talk about what you're doing, and tactics changes you have made for yourself that improve your overall DPS (e.g. my thoughts on the use of Blade Storm/Force Scream). Telling someone to look at the logs is one thing, actually explaining your thought process is another. A much more useful other.

 

Since my Marauder's been shelved from a raiding perspective (current group needs me tanking more than DPSing), I haven't been able to justify the upgrade of most of my gear to 63s ahead of min/maxing my tank. I don't know how my dummy numbers in full 63s would compare to theirs. I would be lying if I said I didn't care (I'm highly competitive about everything in life), but I do think the attitude of basically waggling one's e-junk in everyone else's faces and claiming superiority is a stupid thing to do regardless of how one compares to the rest of the Marauder/Sentinel community, whether on a dummy or in a raid.

 

Tl'dr summary: Striving to be the best is not a bad thing, but no part of being "the best" requires being a jack*** about it and lording it over "lesser mortals". Just be the best, and if you say anything, use your words to help other people improve, so they can push you to outdo them as they get better and threaten to take your throne.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Omophorus

[-Yui-]

Just reposting these to the Repub side mirror forums so I can get some people to see these.

 

Over in the mara forums, a challenge was issued to make vexo/keelling shut up or put up a 2150 parse with No Bloodthirst. Vexo responded with this parse http://www.torparse.com/a/97111/time/1357933939/1357934292/0/Overview. A 2163 (without edit at end its 2106) parse with no Bloodthirst OR adrenals. Now, my point here is that DPSCraft sims put a full 63 mara at 2150ish dps with no armor debuff but with all CD's. This is essentially what this is http://www.torparse.com/a/98355/time/1358133486/1358133796/0/Damage+Dealt No armor debuff, use of all CD's, comes out to around 2150ish dps. This is a normal parse for a high end raiding sent/mara.

 

Now, how exactly is one mara suddenly doing 100 more DPS than any other mara/sent in the world (Possibly more) when we use no adrenals or bloodthirsts? He uses near identical rotations, nothing special there. Yet, as he claims he can parse at 2150 with no armor debuff, no BT, and no Adrenals. yet, he's never even posted a 2200+ parse with BT and adrenals? Surely, someone so good could pull another 100 dps out of those two items and break 2250 even?

It's pretty simple, he had a friend armor debuff his target. That's your missing 100 dps right there. I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting really really annoyed listening to Vexo and Okuy/Keeling telling everyone about how they're the best, then posting nothing but average parses then suddenly posting up something thats 100 higher than should realistically be possible.

 

Please, if I'm full of garbage; let me know. If you agree, let me know. I don't particularly care either way, but this kind of stuff is beyond ridiculous.

 

I've done 2120 with 61 gear, so 2160 is possible. It does take a lucky parse though (lucky meaning doing it for hours on end).

 

But Vexo is pretty much a laughing stock on our server.

Edited January 20, 2013 by -Yui-

[Ryofo]

The trick to getting high parses is indeed just doing for ages until you get a lucky run of crits. Just look at the crit percentage on the parse.

[Saferai]

Well since the parse is right there, all you really need to do to prove/disprove what you think is do a comparison of all the massacre/ataru form hits that occur during gore and not during gore, then calculate the damage reduction that the non gore window strikes are encountering. Without an arp debuff it should be 35% with one it should be 30%.

 

For what it's worth, despite his attitude, vexo has never posted falsified data, vexo uses 2x WH relics so that is why there are not procs/activations. The high crit rating leans itself to the log being on the very high end of RNG but the absence of adrenals is odd, either way if no one has done it by this weekend, I'll take a pass through this log and do the math.

 

Do not however put so much faith in sims in this game, they have never had a huge amount of backing in development or oversight, there simply isn't much of a high end community capable of contributing and checking work in this game as their are in other games. My personal experience is the carnage sim is low, it is possible to use an alternate opener that eliminates the 1 time 2x massacre - force scream gore window in favor of the higher damage and more rage efficient 3x zerked massacre - force scream gore window. This opener eliminates the early damage drop associated with the less optimal gore dump as well as reaches the necessary rage critical mass without trading massacres for assaults early on, resulting in a consistent 2150+ damage output.

 

When testing the crit rating of the Kinetic DG relic vs the Energy DG relic shortly after their release I was able to put out 2150-2185 something like 10 logs in a row using that opener. This level of consistency above what the sim predicts implies the sim may not be entirely accurate. Given that my PC and internet connection are both somewhat average, I doubt I was performing within a fraction of a % of a sim over and over. Sims are just tools, only as accurate as they are fashioned to be, no offense to anyone involved in the coding of said sims. Take a look at the simcraft sniper APL thread over on sithwarrior.com , and you'll see just how much minor improvements to an APL can result in large damage gains.

[IAmViiOLENT]

Well since the parse is right there, all you really need to do to prove/disprove what you think is do a comparison of all the massacre/ataru form hits that occur during gore and not during gore, then calculate the damage reduction that the non gore window strikes are encountering. Without an arp debuff it should be 35% with one it should be 30%.

 

For what it's worth, despite his attitude, vexo has never posted falsified data, vexo uses 2x WH relics so that is why there are not procs/activations. The high crit rating leans itself to the log being on the very high end of RNG but the absence of adrenals is odd, either way if no one has done it by this weekend, I'll take a pass through this log and do the math.

 

Do not however put so much faith in sims in this game, they have never had a huge amount of backing in development or oversight, there simply isn't much of a high end community capable of contributing and checking work in this game as their are in other games. My personal experience is the carnage sim is low, it is possible to use an alternate opener that eliminates the 1 time 2x massacre - force scream gore window in favor of the higher damage and more rage efficient 3x zerked massacre - force scream gore window. This opener eliminates the early damage drop associated with the less optimal gore dump as well as reaches the necessary rage critical mass without trading massacres for assaults early on, resulting in a consistent 2150+ damage output.

 

When testing the crit rating of the Kinetic DG relic vs the Energy DG relic shortly after their release I was able to put out 2150-2185 something like 10 logs in a row using that opener. This level of consistency above what the sim predicts implies the sim may not be entirely accurate. Given that my PC and internet connection are both somewhat average, I doubt I was performing within a fraction of a % of a sim over and over. Sims are just tools, only as accurate as they are fashioned to be, no offense to anyone involved in the coding of said sims. Take a look at the simcraft sniper APL thread over on sithwarrior.com , and you'll see just how much minor improvements to an APL can result in large damage gains.

 

I did end up parsing at over 2100 myself without a particularly high crit rate without BT, and I've been over 2200 in carnage now so I suppose...

 

And yes, carnage sims are low as they dont account for proc relics for example and DG boundless ages relics. They push that a bit higher than their suggested output :/

 

The anni sims however do report an accurate number in their 2.5k theorycraft, but realistically, having someone who has 0ms is impossible as that factors in human reaction too. Putting the setting of a sim to around 100ms brings Anni within acceptable limits of what its been parsed at (2.3k).

[planet_J]

I find it interesting that his parse is 40-50 dps higher than a supremely top end parse with an adrenal and no bloodthirst. But his doesn't show either...in fully min/maxed 63 gear...I don't see how even luck could contribute to a conceived 100dps gain over ANYTHING else out there without using anything that radically changes what others do...

 

I think it's fishy personally.

[paowee]

I like high parses, because they help illustrate more ideal play. I can learn from them what I'm doing wrong to make myself better (I always run under the assumption that someone is doing something closer to perfect than I am, and it's generally mechanical/tactical and can be replicated).

 

Their attitudes, however, are out of control. Every time Vexo opens his yap, I have a hard time not speaking up, because he's just such a smug, condescending jerk. The even funnier part is that in actual content, his numbers are nothing special. He claims to have logs he doesn't upload that are drastically higher, but then doesn't really do anything to prove it.

 

It's much more helpful to the community to talk about what you're doing, and tactics changes you have made for yourself that improve your overall DPS (e.g. my thoughts on the use of Blade Storm/Force Scream). Telling someone to look at the logs is one thing, actually explaining your thought process is another. A much more useful other.

 

Since my Marauder's been shelved from a raiding perspective (current group needs me tanking more than DPSing), I haven't been able to justify the upgrade of most of my gear to 63s ahead of min/maxing my tank. I don't know how my dummy numbers in full 63s would compare to theirs. I would be lying if I said I didn't care (I'm highly competitive about everything in life), but I do think the attitude of basically waggling one's e-junk in everyone else's faces and claiming superiority is a stupid thing to do regardless of how one compares to the rest of the Marauder/Sentinel community, whether on a dummy or in a raid.

 

Tl'dr summary: Striving to be the best is not a bad thing, but no part of being "the best" requires being a jack*** about it and lording it over "lesser mortals". Just be the best, and if you say anything, use your words to help other people improve, so they can push you to outdo them as they get better and threaten to take your throne.

 

^ ............

[paowee]

The trick to getting high parses is indeed just doing for ages until you get a lucky run of crits. Just look at the crit percentage on the parse.

 

^ ^ ..........

 

The anni sims however do report an accurate number in their 2.5k theorycraft, but realistically, having someone who has 0ms is impossible as that factors in human reaction too. Putting the setting of a sim to around 100ms brings Anni within acceptable limits of what its been parsed at (2.3k).

 

can u link the 2300 DPS Anni Mara parse?

Edited January 31, 2013 by paowee

[vdbswong]

For what it's worth, despite his attitude, vexo has never posted falsified data, vexo uses 2x WH relics so that is why there are not procs/activations.

 

Isn't the "Lightning Spike" that regularly appears in the log from a Proc Relic?

 

EDIT: NVM, had logs the wrong way round.

Edited February 3, 2013 by vdbswong

[IAmViiOLENT]

^ ^ ..........

 

 

 

can u link the 2300 DPS Anni Mara parse?

 

From a mara named T-Man on ToFN @ 2288 dps. go search their board for it.

[verfallen]

Correct me if I'm wrong but...

 

How can you be sure a parse is one with no BT and adrenal? Its rather easy imo to just remove the lines activating and fading the effect with wordpad or notebook.

 

The hits value will remain there.

 

At any rate, epeen egomaniac will always be a % of the player base, that go above and beyond competitiveness, and I suspect eventually involve rubbing action looking at their own parse, with a 2nd closed monitor just to check their reflexion in it.

 

Just ignore them.

[BlznSmri]

Correct me if I'm wrong but...

 

How can you be sure a parse is one with no BT and adrenal? Its rather easy imo to just remove the lines activating and fading the effect with wordpad or notebook.

 

The hits value will remain there.

 

At any rate, epeen egomaniac will always be a % of the player base, that go above and beyond competitiveness, and I suspect eventually involve rubbing action looking at their own parse, with a 2nd closed monitor just to check their reflexion in it.

 

Just ignore them.

 

 

Check for a 15 second spike in damage.