Queuing as what you are not. This has to stop.

[Kalfear]

 

Queuing as what you are not. This has to stop.

.

 

Got to admit, ive only ran into this issue couple times but its easy to solve

 

Someone ques as something and it wasn't a honest mistake (explained below) you simply boot them from group (or leave yourself if group will not boot) and put the offending parties on ignore.

 

The nice thing about TOR Group Finder is, people on your ignore list are never grouped up with you (wish the same worked for the WZ Queue).

 

Do this and you will never have that issue with them again.

 

Yes it sucks at the time but in the long run the issue is solved.

 

BUT MAKE SURE THEY INTENDED TO QUEUE UP WRONGLY

 

True story: I got my Bounty Hunter into Battlemaster gear (this was awhile ago) and Queued up for my first Hard Mode FP as my DPS Merc.

Before queuing up I made sure I deselected the auto healer setting and only had DPS selected.

Directive 7 pops up

So I join group and we ride down road to bottom and attack and group wipes

One member freaks on me "WTH ARE YOU NOT HEALING???"

I reply "ummm because Im DPS and queued as DPS"

Thats when I noticed the little symbol saying I was in group as healer

Apparently just another bug in an endless list of bugs for TOR

 

I apologize and say I will leave and eat the lock out

Group asks if I can heal anyways

I make sure they know I am speced for DPS but can go med mode and do some limited single target heals (and that I have 3 level 50 healers on Rep side so I know the fights and what to expect)

 

GOOD ENOUGH and off we go

few people died but that was to be expected with the limited heals I had

good news is we finished the FP and got the black hole coms

All were happy

 

So if someone is queued as a healer, make sure they didnt mean to be DPS before you freak on them, this game is far from bug free and its NOT unheard of for the game to change players selections in the group finder.

 

Once you approach the person, you will know soon enough if it was a screw up/bug or if person was trying to just speed up queue time by selecting heals/tank role. Then if that the case, you can act appropriately

[CaptRavenous]

I stay away from the LFG. Its a sure-fire way to an evening filled with frustration & annoyance.

 

I don't play SW:TOR to get frustrated or annoyed. I have kids for that.

Edited January 12, 2013 by CaptRavenous

[spectreclees]

There is a bug which queues people as a role they did not select, it is easy to overlook this once a queue pops as you wouldn't expect the system to be so idiotically flawed. That alone probably makes up for 80%+ of improper queues.

 

Yep, it always picks me as tank when I never queue as tank. Doesn't save my settings.

[Lungbutter]

Why people bother to do Flashpoints or even Heroics as they level is beyond me. The gear and rewards are quickly out levelled and there simply is no point. Doing them is a profitless waste of leveling time.

 

With regard to the OP if you aren't specced as a Tank or Healer don't bother doing them. Just sit back and laugh at the people constantly LFG in chat...because really grouping is only a point if you're with a friend.

[demotivator]

I think the issue is that the game sometimes just check again both roles you can queue up for and people just don't notice it hitting the queue button right ahead. Yes it's a bug but it's easy to solve the issue before hitting that button, just check that only your role remains checked. Problem fixed.

 

Since they have implemented the group finder feature I only got in a group with the wrong role once, no more, and I indeed missed the fact that the game checked them both before rushing on the queue button.

 

To sum it up: open your eyes and you won't ever queue as the wrong role.

 

 

Why people bother to do Flashpoints or even Heroics as they level is beyond me. The gear and rewards are quickly out levelled and there simply is no point. Doing them is a profitless waste of leveling time.

 

With regard to the OP if you aren't specced as a Tank or Healer don't bother doing them. Just sit back and laugh at the people constantly LFG in chat...because really grouping is only a point if you're with a friend.

 

I can get between 1/3 and 1/2 level doing a whole flashpoint (that is bonus included) in 30 minutes or less, with a minimal wait time as a healer. Is that a waste of time to you?

 

Actually my last alt has reached lvl 45 just running FPs and space missions.

Edited January 12, 2013 by demotivator

[aeterno]

Not really much of an issue at 50, any decently geared dps can tank any HM-FP without respecing or changing his gear (just equipping a shield perhaps). I do it all the time.

 

Granted it may not be as pretty but if someone feels so passionately about style he's free to re-queue and wait 15 more min for a pop as dps. I'll tank it as dps for an insta pop and get 3 others daily comms.

[LordSkyKnight]

Not really much of an issue at 50, any decently geared dps can tank any HM-FP without respecing or changing his gear (just equipping a shield perhaps). I do it all the time.

 

Granted it may not be as pretty but if someone feels so passionately about style he's free to re-queue and wait 15 more min for a pop as dps. I'll tank it as dps for an insta pop and get 3 others daily comms.

 

People like you crack me up. You think simply that switching your combat stance will let you tank a flashpoint without having none of the taunting or tanking type talents. When I run into people like you, I vote you out and add you to the ignore list.

[demotivator]

Not really much of an issue at 50, any decently geared dps can tank any HM-FP without respecing or changing his gear (just equipping a shield perhaps). I do it all the time.

 

Granted it may not be as pretty but if someone feels so passionately about style he's free to re-queue and wait 15 more min for a pop as dps. I'll tank it as dps for an insta pop and get 3 others daily comms.

 

It's not even an issue sub lvl 50 provided you have decently geared companions (a nice amount of Presence is a plus), know what's going on to micro-manage your companion's positioning. Heck I have 2-manned Cademimu and The Foundry - including the Borrower Matriarch that is a real pain - due to the tank disconnecting and a DPS giving up.

 

So that's the chance for a little word of advice: don't give up because you lose your tank or healer, you can still work around that loss. Story mode FPs are very forgivable in terms of group compostion and even gear if you know the fights.

Edited January 12, 2013 by demotivator

[Kalfear]

Not really much of an issue at 50, any decently geared dps can tank any HM-FP without respecing or changing his gear (just equipping a shield perhaps). I do it all the time.

 

Granted it may not be as pretty but if someone feels so passionately about style he's free to re-queue and wait 15 more min for a pop as dps. I'll tank it as dps for an insta pop and get 3 others daily comms.

 

No offense but NO YOU WONT tank it as a DPSer

 

You WILL however get kicked and it will be you requeueing

 

And this not just me talking, this is the attitude of ALOT of players

 

Oh you might get joe newbie to go along with you but anyone worth their salt will tell you go away once you say the magic words

 

"any decently geared dps can tank any HM-FP without respecing or changing his gear "

 

Ive actually gone with those that say the same as you and to a person, THEY ARE TERRIBLE and end up costing the group wipes and frustration and aggravation.

 

But hey, you keep that nonsense about any DPSer can add a sheild and be a good tank in a hard mode or ops.

 

Most people want skilled players, not bloated egos

 

Besides respecs are free now and take less then 2 minutes to complete (if you have a clue about the classes and builds). So why exactly will you not spend less then two minutes to do it right?

 

I suspect your name (if you really do what you claim in GF) is making its way around many a ignore list because of said attitude

 

Healers and DPS can get away not changing out gear because both utilize main stat and power.

 

Tanks how ever utilize sheild, absorption, defence, endurance stats.

 

If you dont understand the difference between Sheild/Absorption/Defence/Endurance vrs Main stat (will/Cunning/Aim/Str)/power.

 

Well thats kinda EXACTLY why the OP made the post he did.

 

Anyone worth their salt should give you exactly 1 chance to put on a tank set of gear speced around tanking stats and to respec as its free and almost instant time wise. After that its dont let the boot hit you on way out and welcome to ignore list forever.

 

PS: Its actually a running joke on my server when talking about incompetent and unskilled PUG tanks. We mock it daily by saying "hey I do better in DPS stance then I do in tank stance".

 

Your only fooling yourself if you think you can do HM FPs in dps gear and spec in a normal PUG.

 

But im sure your now going to tell us how you do it all the time and no one complains or boots you.

 

Save your virtual breath, I do not believe you. Seen far to many groups kick players for EXACTLY what you claim you do all the time.

 

Not being rude or anything.

Just telling the god honest truth.

 

If you sign up as a tank you better dang well be in Tanking gear and specd to tank.

And anyone worth their salt can tell quickly with out you saying a word about it.

 

Ill carry a columi geared tank through LI HM before I allow a DPS specd and geared person to take up the tank role. And im FAR from the only one enforcing that now a days.

[Kalfear]

My favorite, lowbie flashpoint:

 

Shadow Tank joins with 75% broken gear. Says that's why he's doing FP. He uses taunt, dies, and says "okay, maybe I won't use that ability anymore". Get to the first boss and he's like "can someone else tank, my gear is broken".

 

I told him it was rude to his group queue as a tank if he can't tank. He said he queued as DPS and waited an hour and said screw it and switched to tank.

 

My favorite, hardmode flashpoint:

 

Tank joins HM Lost Island in full recruit gear (the first version). It's his first hardmode, he says.

 

LOL, yeah Ive run into a few situations with people like that as well

 

Actually yesterday I queued up for daily HM as a healer (commando thats in mostly black hole/campaign gear and has healed hm ops successfully) and get Kaon.

 

I notice the tank has 16k health so I check gear and sure enough person in Tionesse (yes yes its possible to do if you know what your doing but when I see Tionesse on a tank its a fairly clear indication this is NOT a experienced player)

 

So we get to Turret stage (this girl is literally making me battle to use every last drop of healing I can squeeze out because of poor play and bad gear) and sure enough girl runs straight to turret and doesnt clear the immediate area first.

 

She hops on turret to start fight and then proceeds to not get 90% of the spawns forcing the 2 dps and myself to go nuts dpsing till over run.

 

So DPSer says probably better he run turret

So we start fight and tank stands beside turret and DOES NOTHING.

She didnt shoot her gun even once (she was a Vanguard)

We wipe

 

So we decide to clear every rakghoul from respawn area to turret so there can be NO ADDS

Sure enough tank pulls group and ONE rakghoul stays on her whiel the rest swarm me the healer.

She doesnt budge, move, look, what ever.

Just sits there shooting this one rakghoul while DPSers try their best.

We wipe and I had enough and said

"Sorry all but this so called tank in gear made for storymode, not hard mode and also doesnt know her class as is not taunting or controling the fight in any way. Im done"

 

Minute later I get tell "You should have stayed, we booted the tank"

 

That tank had absolutely no bussiness being in a hard mode flashpoint and its certainly not up to me to teach her how to do the fights. I teach my guildies and friends. When I PUG for daily HM I expect at least columi TANK gear (not DPS speced) and at least a understanding of how this flashpoint runs in Storymode versions.

 

And yeah, Im definately not letting someone shift to DPS because they got tired of waiting in queue as a dpser.

 

NEWSFLASH FOLKS:

The reason DPSer wait so long is you all are a far to common and easy to find.

If you want faster queue pops, learn to heal.

If you want immediate queue pops, get tanking gear, respec to tanking build AND TANK.

 

Other wise join a guild that will carry you through HM FPs or make some friends that will carry you through flashpoints.

 

The only other alternative is to wait hour + for the pop because you choose to play a over popular build.

 

Its on you completely.

What you DONT DO is requeue as a tank when you are not ready, willing, or able to reasonably tank a fp.

[aeterno]

Wait for a pop then.

 

It cracks me up how people, especially tanks, think FPs in this game are rocket science and feel important cos they specialized. LI is the only one that requires a semblance of a clue to pull off, the rest, you might as well run with 3 dps, 4 in some cases.

 

Anybody who's not a complete Muppet can tank ALL these flashpoints with base tanking abilities.

 

I have field respec. I have 0 cost on it cos I sub. I have a full tanking set in my inventory. I tank it in my dps gear. Respeccing and re-equiping for HMFPs is literary a waste of the 15 sec it takes you. For half of them I don't even swap my PVP set for PVE gear, how you fancy that?

 

Mass taunt, single taunt, stance is more than what you need. Heck for a guardian derpsmashes are better than hilt strike when dealing with trash pulls. Cos you bloody 1 shot the entire pull bar the silvers before the other dps even gets into the fight.

 

I'd understand&support the argument when applied to OPS. FPs? Gimme a brake man. Thats like arguing Heroic 2 and 4 mans have to actually be 2 and 4 manned lol. Yea they do, if you suck royally.

 

 

 

Your problem is you seem to assume all dpsers doing it are terribad at it. False. I run a random FP daily like this every time. I cant remember the last time I wiped. What are you gonna wipe on in these flashpoints? the 50% of the bosses you can't skip are a simple tank and spank. I wager all credits I have in game 90% of the PUGs I provide a quicker pop for never realize I'm in DPS spec. And I bet theres a lot of "tanks" like me doing these flashpoints.

 

You don't have a problem with dps geared people tanking. You have a problem with bad players tanking. And I've seen my fair share of "specialized tanks" that were bad players. I'll take a dps geared and specced guy tanking Lorrick and avoiding all the satchels over a "proper tank" facetanking him and picking up every single one. Heck I've done that queued as dps AFTER the "dedicated tank" couldn't so that we could finish the FP. So get off your high horse.

Edited January 12, 2013 by aeterno

[Mossesman]

Ive personally only experienced this problem once. We were doing EV storymode, and one of our DPS's was a Vanguard who was actually in tank spec. Now this wasnt really much of a problem for the first 3 bosses, but once we got to the council, the guy couldnt kill his boss. Even with support he would only get the boss down to about 30%. What didnt help was he was refusing to speak on the OP's channel. Eventually, after our 5th attempt, alot of us left.

[Ms_Sunlight]

It's not even an issue sub lvl 50 provided you have decently geared companions (a nice amount of Presence is a plus), know what's going on to micro-manage your companion's positioning. Heck I have 2-manned Cademimu and The Foundry - including the Borrower Matriarch that is a real pain - due to the tank disconnecting and a DPS giving up.

 

So that's the chance for a little word of advice: don't give up because you lose your tank or healer, you can still work around that loss. Story mode FPs are very forgivable in terms of group compostion and even gear if you know the fights.

 

I've soloed the burrower matriarch in a GF group while levelling my operative healer. The rest of the group went down in seconds because they didn't avoid her AOE. I self-healed and did damage strafing around her using a run-and-gun style, took some time but she went down! Probably couldn't have done it on any role other than healer, and being an operative helped. A merc could have done it the same way but a sorc would have had a harder time because they're not as mobile.

 

Anyway, back to the OP's point, while I do agree that it is a monumental pain in the backside when people queue for roles they are not equipped to fulfill, I do think the OP was incorrect in some of their "telltale signs" because there are always tricks and ways to play that you might not know about.

 

We've had people who are obviously running vigilance hybrid guardian tanks chime in about hilt strike, for example. We've had people who are running bubble sorc hybrid healers. There is a hybrid operations off-tank spec for powertech that works well enough for HM FPs. Players are disagreeing about the utility of certain moves. Some people stack alacrity on their sorc healers (I do) but others prefer to stack more power and both are viable approaches.

 

This just muddies the waters. The ultimate test is not, "did they use this ability" or "do they have this stat priority". It's "are they doing their job". Simple as that.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Ms_Sunlight

[Icestar]

This happens with my Sorc ALL THE TIME. Zero points in the healing tree, but because of my Dark Heal/Dark Infusion abilities I get listed as Heal and DPS. Even after I de-select Healer I still get listed as one. My Shadowtank sometimes is listed as DPS/Tank. It's not always the players fault. Annoying as hell to be invited only to find out that you are the one who is supposed to heal even though you aren't listed as one.

 

Bioware needs to bind the different roles to the speccs like many other MMOs already has done.

 

It is VERY annoying to sign up with ONE box checked to find out that the groupfinder has selecter you as another role, a role that is impossible to do......

 

I have sent a ticket about this but nothing has happened for months....

[TheIronMonkey]

I (in my limited experience) also agree with the statement that regular FPs and low level HM FPs don't truly require the typical Healer-Tank-2xdps team. I have done a couple of HM FPs with 3 dps and works fine, and recently one with no healer. Of course, well equipped experienced players who know how to cc, control AoE, etc are needed.

 

But here is a concept that I have understood from the discussion (not just this one) and I don't fully understand : a well equipped knowledgeable tank does not depend/need the healer. Really?

 

In my logical (maybe wrong) point of view, most of the healer's purpose is to support the tank. The tank should hold most agro, so the dps shouldn't get hurt much. If everybody is doing their job, this combo would defeat anything over time.

 

But if I understand correctly, the tank should not depend on the healer? Then, what is the healer for? The tank is holding the agro, the dps should be able to survive limited damage, so.. ??

 

(Of course I am not taking mayor ops I know dynamics are different there).

[SnoggyMack]

When I PUG for daily HM I expect at least columi TANK gear

 

That's a little backwards isn't it?

[ladwar]

i actually plan on seeing a tank in dps stance and spec with gear from lvling from 23-43 with no relics and gen./focus offhand, and yes i still end up seing these which go onto the ignore list and get vote to boot, which is why i have spent the time gearing up my companion to fill slots for them. HM Lost Island is the only one i can't do with a companion so if the healer or tank isn't up to it i ignore list em and leave and eat the lockout timer. healers can get away with the same gear as dps only if they respec into the healing tree, tanks can't.

 

tanks can not use the same gear as dps would use and get away with tanking that way.

I have never seen this i only que for one thing and end up as the other and i have 7 toons and i feel this is a cop out, but even if this does happen it does tell u the role u are placed for before u accept the que. i seen some rather long timer before they accept and then go oh wait i only qued for dps and got tank which is annoying waste of time for everyone else, but i rather have this then dps spec with dps gear filling the tank slot and trying to get away with it.

 

i would recommend gear checking tanks if their health is low which for me is under 23k hp. as its hard to find dps with that much hp, possible but at that point its a whole different matter.

Edited January 12, 2013 by ladwar

[SnoggyMack]

i would recommend gear checking

 

That's something people in middle school do to each other in the cafeteria. If you're that concerned about tanks being properly geared, don't use the LFG tool and just stick to guildmates/'friends.

 

Inspecting peoples' gear like that in a random LFG scenario is really just tacky behavior on your part.

[Kalfear]

That's a little backwards isn't it?

 

????

 

You get some columi drops and coms from storymode runs

 

Equip yourself as you learn the FPs

[ZeroPlus]

That's something people in middle school do to each other in the cafeteria. If you're that concerned about tanks being properly geared, don't use the LFG tool and just stick to guildmates/'friends.

 

Inspecting peoples' gear like that in a random LFG scenario is really just tacky behavior on your part.

 

So inspecting someone you suspect of lying about what they can effectively do in a Flash Point is tacky?

 

Hmmm... interesting view point...

[Kalfear]

I (in my limited experience) also agree with the statement that regular FPs and low level HM FPs don't truly require the typical Healer-Tank-2xdps team. I have done a couple of HM FPs with 3 dps and works fine, and recently one with no healer. Of course, well equipped experienced players who know how to cc, control AoE, etc are needed.

 

But here is a concept that I have understood from the discussion (not just this one) and I don't fully understand : a well equipped knowledgeable tank does not depend/need the healer. Really?

 

In my logical (maybe wrong) point of view, most of the healer's purpose is to support the tank. The tank should hold most agro, so the dps shouldn't get hurt much. If everybody is doing their job, this combo would defeat anything over time.

 

But if I understand correctly, the tank should not depend on the healer? Then, what is the healer for? The tank is holding the agro, the dps should be able to survive limited damage, so.. ??

 

(Of course I am not taking mayor ops I know dynamics are different there).

 

In a perfect group set up for TOR

 

Tank - will hold agro

DPS - will do the damage to mobs while taking almost zero damage themselves

healer - will keep tank alive and spot heal dps as needed

 

Thats a perfect set up but rarely ever happens for different reasons

 

1) Tank is not in tank spec gear or not speced in tank role causeing healer to expend 10 times the normally required healing to keep alive

 

2) DPS are not targeting off tank target so grabbing agro from the lesser taunted mobs switching agro to them forcing healer to expend mass amounts of extra healing on DPSers

 

Those are the two big ones.

Ultimately those 2 dont mean a group will wipe, but it makes the healers job a million times more difficult

 

In PUGs I usually tell the DPSers to target off tank 2 times, then I stop healing for one round. That usually gets the message home. If a DPSer insists on leaping in before the tank, I'll give one warning and then vote kick player.

 

There are such an over abundance of DPSers that there is zero reason to put up with bad DPSers that refuse to let tank go first and refuse to work with group.

 

As for Tanks, it depends on tank. If I think Tank new and trying Ill help to a certain extent but there is limits. If its one of those like that guy up a few posts in thread that thinks hes a better tank in DPS gear and spec, those I just vote kick or leave myself and place on ignore. You not going to convince them they are wrong (no matter how many people tell them) so best to just ignore and move on.

 

Group design in TOR isnt rocket science, its pretty basic and when you get a group that accepts their roles, the HM FP is over fast and with out drama. Everyone has a good time. Its when the DPSers that think they better tanks in DPS gear and specs and DPSers that refuse to work with the tank start doing their own thing that problems arrise and the drama starts.

 

Know your class, play well with others, lose the ego that your special, and everything else is cake

[HoboWithAStick]

People that do this should always be booted for group, if you que with a buddy just insta boot them. There is nothing worse then getting a Sin qued as a tank that is using deathfield and surging charge.

 

That being said skilled players that actually change their spec but use the same gear generated/shield should be switched for tanks should be fine. The content is really easy in this game at least what you can q for in group finder. AS LONG AS THEY ARE USING THE SPEC THEY SHOULD BE FINE.

[SnoggyMack]

????

 

You get some columi drops and coms from storymode runs

 

Equip yourself as you learn the FPs

 

I'm confused then. You said you expect at least Columi tanking gear. And then state that you get "some" Columi drops from storymode.

 

So see, I took your first comment to mean you expect tanks to be fully geared in Columi? Did I read that wrong? Is it just you expect them to be in some Columi gear? Or you expect them to be in full Columi? If it's the former, then ok. If it's the latter than I think your expectations are a bit backwards or at least extreme.

 

At least when using the LFG tool to group with random flashpoints and PUGs.

[SnoggyMack]

So inspecting someone you suspect of lying about what they can effectively do in a Flash Point is tacky?

 

Hmmm... interesting view point...

 

Yup. Gear checking people you end up being randomly grouped with through an LFG tool is tacky. If it's that important an issue, don't PUG.

[StixThorne]

Eh, it's hard to gear with Tank gear and stuff around 25ish just because if there is any on the GTN, it's so damn expensive.

 

 

chest and legs from pvp vendor lvl 20 , head from narshada lvl 23 , got my boots and gloves from gtn together under 10k. Realy not hard to gear yourself just got to know where to look .

 

 

edit : all orange gear so i can replace the mods as I lvl , heh forgot to say it.

Edited January 13, 2013 by StixThorne