Queuing as what you are not. This has to stop.

[Missandei]

Already done it. Before they started to nerf everything because it was all "too hard".

 

ha ha.. I would believe you if i dont know what PuGs groups are like..

[TheIronMonkey]

Maybe I am one of those "glass half full" people, but I think a lot of the miss-queue (besides the bugs) is true ignorance. We do have players that don't know anything at all and want to do ops the next morning. I know there are a lot of players that want to start with a 50 and go on from there. As long as LFG puts random groups together you will get random knowledge and gear on them.

 

I still think the grand majority is mistakes, bugs and just lack of knowledge. My brother just started playing, very first MMO. He doesn't even know what dps is, let alone gear, etc. He is learning quick (one of the good things about the leveling process), but then my other brother (I have 7) told him to go to PvP. So, how is this fool L27 who doesn't even know what dps is going to do?? Way in too deep for someone who doesn't even know how to swim. But, the game allows it, so he can, and he does.

 

I just think : give people a chance to do their job. Don't jump to judgement. If you queued as heals, go ahead and heal. If you don't, you get kicked out.

 

I am only saying this because, as frustrating as it might be for you as an expert player to deal with less knowledge players, it is hard for us (I never consider myself an expert) to break into the higher level content because others don't give you a chance. How am I to get better equipment if others don't give me a chance to run higher content to get better equipment??

 

And, for those you claim do this on purpose and are, basically, jerks... well, they probably wont read any of this.

[Ighten]

What a scary thread.. I wouldn't even know what to list myself .. I mainly play a vanguard. We're not all Spreadsheet Stat Fanatics some play for fun

 

On a serious note though where would one go to learn how to play your character to its best potential and what its supposed to do?

[ZeroPlus]

I tank hardmodes in Shadow PvP DPS gear - easy if you have a good healer.

 

A lot of this thread reads like scrubs who can't think outside the box. SWTOR FP's are pretty easy - you just have to know how2p. Just sayin....

 

Read what I emphasised. Read it again.

 

What have I been saying all along? I'll help you since you seem to have missed the point: the only reason you get away with it is because you have a good healer. In other words: someone else is covering for your lack.

 

Also, thanks for proving another thing I have been saying: those who do this and feel justified in doing this are the first to call the others "noobs", or "scrubs" in your case. You probably also accuse others when the group fails because you cannot tank effectively. Just sayin...

[Larity]

Well, good for you. I guess.

 

But again, what exactly does that have to do with the topic?

 

You said it yourself: "My guardian tank". I imagine that means you are specced into the tank tree, and that you use a Shield offhand and have tanking gear. Correct? If so, then this isn't aimed at you (or others like you). This topic is aimed at those that make YOU look bad because they queue as Guardian tanks without being able to fulfill the role.

 

someones a bit testy.

 

may I throw in you said this.

 

•Guardians/Juggernauts who queue as Tanks and are 30+ but never use "Hilt Strike"/"Backhand" (21 point talents in the tanking tree) are a dead giveaway.

[Icebergy]

I read right up until he said guardians aren't tanks if they don't use hilt strike. I main tank for my guild and have killed everything but NMM Kephess and I only have 17 points in defense.

 

Other than that though, I agree.

[ZeroPlus]

What a scary thread.. I wouldn't even know what to list myself .. I mainly play a vanguard. We're not all Spreadsheet Stat Fanatics some play for fun

 

On a serious note though where would one go to learn how to play your character to its best potential and what its supposed to do?

 

Hi Ighten,

 

You don't have to be a spreadsheet fanatic to play this game.

 

You're playing a Vanguard. There is a Vanguard sub-forum in the Troopers forum. Just click on "Classes" when you see the Forum sections. You should find all you need there. Feel free to ask questions, people will help you.

 

But here is a primer: a Vanguard can be either a tank or a damage dealer.

If you want to be a tank, you spend skill points in the "Shield Specialist" tree, use your Ion Cell, a Shield Generator in the off-hand and prioritize your gear in terms of Endurance, Shield, Absorption and Defense rating.

If you want to be a damage dealer, you spend skill points in either the "Tactics" or "Assault Specialist" tree, use the appropriate cell depending on the tree you invest in ("High Energy"= "Tactics" and "Plasma" = "Assault Specialist"), use a Generator in the off-hand and prioritize your gear in terms of Aim, Power, Crit and Surge rating.

 

Once you decide what you want to be, go into the Group Finder interface and turn off the option that you aren't. You will enjoy the game much more and so will everyone else that groups with you.

[SlimsPicken]

[*]Sages/Sorcerers who queue as Healers, are 30+ and whose "Force Armor"/"Static Barrier" explodes when it ends stunning all nearby enemies for 3 seconds due to "Kinect Collapse"/"Backlash" (16 and 17 point talent in the Telekinetics/Lightning trees, which means that they have very few (if any) points in the healing tree) are a dead giveaway.

 

this just means they are a smart sorc hybrid healer if they are lvl 40+

 

stun bubbles turn HMs into easy modes. stun bubble build plus innervate= great hybrid utility. The 21/20/0 build and other hybrid heal/lightning variants work extremely well and anyone who lets people die in a hard mode with that build is quite simply a terrible player/healer.

 

There is no reason to be full heal spec for HM flashpoints that Ive ever found. The heal puddle and extra crit bonus just isnt needed whereas the stun bubbles literally turn the event into a statue killing contest.

 

but otherwise, I basically agree that people probably should spec more into the role they intend to play for OPs...HMs though... I havent found one that couldnt be duoed with a decent tank and our companions...even as a hybrid in pvp gear.

[Kilikaa]

There is a bug which queues people as a role they did not select, it is easy to overlook this once a queue pops as you wouldn't expect the system to be so idiotically flawed. That alone probably makes up for 80%+ of improper queues.

 

This happens with my Sorc ALL THE TIME. Zero points in the healing tree, but because of my Dark Heal/Dark Infusion abilities I get listed as Heal and DPS. Even after I de-select Healer I still get listed as one. My Shadowtank sometimes is listed as DPS/Tank. It's not always the players fault. Annoying as hell to be invited only to find out that you are the one who is supposed to heal even though you aren't listed as one.

[ZeroPlus]

someones a bit testy.

 

may I throw in you said this.

 

•Guardians/Juggernauts who queue as Tanks and are 30+ but never use "Hilt Strike"/"Backhand" (21 point talents in the tanking tree) are a dead giveaway.

 

Sorry if it came across as being "testy". It was not intended.

 

I'll say it again, as I've said before in this thread, it is not the fact that they don't use or have one ability. That has nothing to do with it. This is about those that are 30+ and queue as Tanks with DPS gear/spec and expect to be carried by the rest of the group in FPs when they don't have the gear/spec to fulfil their role.

[ZeroPlus]

I read right up until he said guardians aren't tanks if they don't use hilt strike. I main tank for my guild and have killed everything but NMM Kephess and I only have 17 points in defense.

 

Other than that though, I agree.

 

"for my guild"... you aren't counting on fooling random strangers.... your current guild allows you to do it...

 

Thanks for the agreement though.

[DawnAskham]

This is a pet peeve of mine, though I don't think you can come up with hard and fast rules on how to spot these types based on just inspecting their gear or what abilities they use.

 

To me it becomes clear you have one of these in your group when the player cannot fulfill their selected role AND clearly isn't even trying (e.g. no shield equipped, no healing / tank talents, isn't healing at all, isn't tanking, won't listen to the group).

 

Of course the only real solution is to just call them out when you see them, and then /kick them while adding them to your ignore list.

 

And no, I don't think the OP is talking about new players trying to learn their role or running X flashpoint for the first time. Those players are usually happy to listen and want to learn.

 

I do see where the OP is coming from though in stating we the players should not put up with this behavior.

 

I got one of these tanks the other night in an upper mid-level flashpoint (so I'm not talking about level 10 new players in BT).

 

They had on a mis-mash of gear (no shield), had to be asked to use their tank stance, had to be asked to taunt, ignored all group direction and kept pulling multiple packs, broke all CC, died multiple times (group only didn't wipe because the rest of the group over-compensated), sat down and said 'my gear is broke', and then stated 'I don't have any credits, can you all give me some' when a repair bot was dropped.

 

And all of this was on the trash well before the first boss, and all trash that could be skipped no less.

 

Unfortunately my group stated they had been waiting for a long time before I queued (heals and got instant queue), and wouldn't vote to kick. I then wished them luck and dropped group, placing them all on ignore.

 

I would have been more than happy to help the tank learn had they asked, had they listened, and had it appeared they had taken even the slightest bit of initiative.

 

But I have plenty of alts and plenty of other things to do in the game than to carry someone who has no consideration for their group mates and finds it ok to waste other people's time while begging for credits, and I won't hesitate to kick this type.

 

IMO - More players need to do the same.

Edited January 11, 2013 by DawnAskham

[Icebergy]

"for my guild"... you aren't counting on fooling random strangers.... your current guild allows you to do it...

 

Thanks for the agreement though.

 

They don't allow me to do it, my guild does not pick specs for our players, and even if we did, I am the MT and the raid leader, so if anyone was going to allow anyone to do anything, it would be me.

 

I picked the spec because it is the best spec for tanking, not as some gimmick.

 

Also, I use the same spec if/when I pug things too, so that "for my guild" part is irrelevant.

[ZeroPlus]

 

this just means they are a smart sorc hybrid healer if they are lvl 40+

What are they when you see this happening and they are level 25 - 30? Still smart or just smartalecs hoping noone will catch them out for queuing as something they are not (because their is no way they have points in the healing tree at this level if they have it)?

 

stun bubbles turn HMs into easy modes. stun bubble build plus innervate= great hybrid utility. The 21/20/0 build and other hybrid heal/lightning variants work extremely well and anyone who lets people die in a hard mode with that build is quite simply a terrible player/healer.

 

There is no reason to be full heal spec for HM flashpoints that Ive ever found. The heal puddle and extra crit bonus just isnt needed whereas the stun bubbles literally turn the event into a statue killing contest.

An interesting point, but not relevant to the discussion. You are talking about people who know what they are doing. Who are specced into the healing tree, even if not fully. Who are geared for healing. Who play as healers.

 

This is about people who aren't healers/tanks. They don't gear or spec for healing/tanking. Yet they queue as healers/tanks.

 

but otherwise, I basically agree that people probably should spec more into the role they intend to play for OPs...HMs though... I havent found one that couldnt be duoed with a decent tank and our companions...even as a hybrid in pvp gear.

 

Thanks for agreeing while still managing to disagree .

[ZeroPlus]

They don't allow me to do it, my guild does not pick specs for our players, and even if we did, I am the MT and the raid leader, so if anyone was going to allow anyone to do anything, it would be me.

 

I picked the spec because it is the best spec for tanking, not as some gimmick.

 

Also, I use the same spec if/when I pug things too, so that "for my guild" part is irrelevant.

 

It is funny how you can agree with me and yet miss my point. (Sorry about the "guild" thing, I was having a little stab at you, nothing more .)

 

This isn't about you or others like you. You *ARE* a tank. You gear as a tank. You built a spec that allows you to tank effectively the content you are doing. This isnt about you or others like you.

 

This thread is for those out there that aren't tanks. They don't gear as tanks. They don't spec as tanks. They don't even play as tanks or know what that entails. Yet they queue as tanks and feel entitled to do so. When things go south they blame others.

 

This is a call out to them to stop doing that.

 

In part it is also a call out to all others to not put up with this behaviour and nip it in the bud.

[ZeroPlus]

This is a pet peeve of mine, though I don't think you can come up with hard and fast rules on how to spot these types based on just inspecting their gear or what abilities they use.

 

To me it becomes clear you have one of these in your group when the player cannot fulfill their selected role AND clearly isn't even trying (e.g. no shield equipped, no healing / tank talents, isn't healing at all, isn't tanking, won't listen to the group).

 

Of course the only real solution is to just call them out when you see them, and then /kick them while adding them to your ignore list.

 

And no, I don't think the OP is talking about new players trying to learn their role or running X flashpoint for the first time. Those players are usually happy to listen and want to learn.

 

I do see where the OP is coming from though in stating we the players should not put up with this behavior.

 

I got one of these tanks the other night in an upper mid-level flashpoint (so I'm not talking about level 10 new players in BT).

 

They had on a mis-mash of gear (no shield), had to be asked to use their tank stance, had to be asked to taunt, ignored all group direction and kept pulling multiple packs, broke all CC, died multiple times (group only didn't wipe because the rest of the group over-compensated), sat down and said 'my gear is broke', and then stated 'I don't have any credits, can you all give me some' when a repair bot was dropped.

 

And all of this was on the trash well before the first boss, and all trash that could be skipped no less.

 

Unfortunately my group stated they had been waiting for a long time before I queued (heals and got instant queue), and wouldn't vote to kick. I then wished them luck and dropped group, placing them all on ignore.

 

I would have been more than happy to help the tank learn had they asked, had they listened, and had it appeared they had taken even the slightest bit of initiative.

 

But I have plenty of alts and plenty of other things to do in the game than to carry someone who has no consideration for their group mates and finds it ok to waste other people's time while begging for credits, and I won't hesitate to kick this type.

 

IMO - More players need to do the same.

 

Someone gets it! YAY!

 

[SnoggyMack]

Trama Probe may not be as good as it was before, but it is still the most efficient heal a commando healer has.

 

It's efficient, but it's just not that useful. It takes too long. So yeah, for 2 ammo you're healing over 4k. But really the thirty seconds it takes to do that?

[Gwence]

I only run FP's naked and only use the legacy punch and jab abilities

 

they're just too easy otherwise

[uziforyou]

As for the healers, it's somewhat hard to say, but even most HM FPs can be done without a real healer (or without a real DPS and 3 real healers ), it has to be known from the start and the gameplay should be adapted a little, but it's perfectly doable.

 

By 'real healer' I'm assuming you mean someone specced for healing. You most certainly CANNOT do HM FP's without a dedicated and properly specced healer unless the group in general is overgeared for that content. Add to this the inevitable person or persons in the group that is not skilled with their role or even sucks at it and you're not going to get by HM FP's without a dedicated healer.

 

But this applies to any class frankly. If your healer and dps over gear content you can get by (in most cases) without a tank. If your tank and healer over gear content you can get by with so so dps or even be missing one.

[J__H]

I have never... not once... experienced this bug on any character ever. I do multiple flashpoints via groupfinder every day.

 

I think this is a cop out.

 

I have had this happen to me multiple times in one session of playing and so have many other people. Not even close to a cop out just the truth.

[OmenQ]

As mentioned in other replies, this isn't about being inadvertantly placed as something you did not choose in the Group Finder. This is about those that do so on purpose.

 

About your run: who was healing more? Your brother or the other healer? Was the other healer using the healing abilities I mentioned in my original post or was he getting by on the trainer learned skills? Think about that. Your run probably went "just fine" despite the bug because you were well geared, the DPS was well geared and your brother *is * a healer and knows what he was doing.

 

Ah, I see what your rant is now. DPS players queueing as tank or heal when there's no competent tank or healer to carry the load.

 

I saw both healers' names fly past my head quite a bit, and I do recall seeing the sorc use Innervate, but really from what I remember the two of them just got into a groove. The sorc put out more lightning storms and less AOE heals, and my brother the merc used more rapid shots and kolto bombs, with the occasional DFA when we were on the turret. He was better geared than the sorc was, and I think everyone recognized that.

 

Fortunately, sorc healing and sorc DPS aren't as far apart as, say, Juggernaut tanking vs Jugg DPS. (An immortal Jugg like myself doesn't do so well at DPS.) A sorc healer can do a decent job as a DPS in most hard modes. (I know, I've done it myself.) We just lucked out to have 2 healers.

 

Team Turtle, FTW.

[Irishay]

I recently returned to the game and this time through I have spent almost all my leveling in flashpoints (I have two level 35 characters right now). I strongly agree that once you start venturing into the 30+ FPs it's past time to get serious about what you want your role to be in group play. One could even say that with a poorly matched group Mandalorian Raiders can be a struggle for the low level DPS/hybrid healer. Typically FP groups are good and there are no problems, but when it's bad it's BAD. There are a lot of ignorant players out there and even some slightly more self-aware have the nerve to think it's funny: "lol I'm not the only one healing this am I??" Well, I waited an hour for this FP to pop, waiting for YOU, so please have your **** together and in turn, I won't be a derp DPS.

 

That said, I do really enjoy this game and am having tons of fun otherwise.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Irishay

[SlimsPicken]

 

 

Thanks for agreeing while still managing to disagree .

 

Its what i do.

[ZeroPlus]

I recently returned to the game and this time through I have spent almost all my leveling in flashpoints (I have two level 35 characters right now). I strongly agree that once you start venturing into the 30+ FPs it's past time to get serious about what you want your role to be in group play. One could even say that with a poorly matched group Mandalorian Raiders can be a struggle for the low level DPS/hybrid healer. Typically FP groups are good and there are no problems, but when it's bad it's BAD. There are a lot of ignorant players out there and even some slightly more self-aware have the nerve to think it's funny: "lol I'm not the only one healing this am I??" Well, I waited an hour for this FP to pop, waiting for YOU, so please have your **** together and in turn, I won't be a derp DPS.

 

That said, I do really enjoy this game and am having tons of fun otherwise.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[Ighten]

Hi Ighten,

 

You don't have to be a spreadsheet fanatic to play this game.

 

You're playing a Vanguard. There is a Vanguard sub-forum in the Troopers forum. Just click on "Classes" when you see the Forum sections. You should find all you need there. Feel free to ask questions, people will help you.

 

But here is a primer: a Vanguard can be either a tank or a damage dealer.

If you want to be a tank, you spend skill points in the "Shield Specialist" tree, use your Ion Cell, a Shield Generator in the off-hand and prioritize your gear in terms of Endurance, Shield, Absorption and Defense rating.

If you want to be a damage dealer, you spend skill points in either the "Tactics" or "Assault Specialist" tree, use the appropriate cell depending on the tree you invest in ("High Energy"= "Tactics" and "Plasma" = "Assault Specialist"), use a Generator in the off-hand and prioritize your gear in terms of Aim, Power, Crit and Surge rating.

 

Once you decide what you want to be, go into the Group Finder interface and turn off the option that you aren't. You will enjoy the game much more and so will everyone else that groups with you.

 

Thx for the reply