Queuing as what you are not. This has to stop.

[ZeroPlus]

Hello all,

 

Seriously, please STOP queueing in Group Finder as a "Tank" or "Healer" if that is not the way your character is specialized or equipped. It is showing a complete lack of respect for others when you do so. Not to mention that you end up looking like a fool.

 

We all know that in the first 2 or 3 Flash Points it really doesn't make a difference because you cannot really be specialized enough into a tree to make a big difference. All you need to do is switch to the appropriate form, equip a Shield offhand on your Vanguard/Powertech/Guardian/Juggernaut/Assassin/Shadow and you can "Tank" if you know what your doing. Or if you are a Commando/Mercenary/Sage/Sorcerer/Scoundrel/Operative you can heal the party and still help out with a little DPS.

 

After that, it starts to get a little more complicated but, if you know what you are doing, it isn't realy a problem.

 

But when you start to get into the 30s, the Flash Points start to require that:

• You have spent at least 20 points in the talent tree relevant to your role.
  
• You have gear appropriate to your role (gear with: Defense, Shield and Absorption rating for Tanks; Critical, Surge and Alacrity rating for Healers; Power, Critical and Surge rating for Damage Dealers (DPS)).
  

 

When you hit Cademimu, Boarding Party/Taral V and Maelstrom Prison/Foundry and you still think that you can "get away" with queueing as a "Tank" or "Healer" when you aren't geared or specced for it, you are basically:

• Disrespecting the other players in the group.
  
• Wasting everyone's time because of unnecessary deaths due to not being to take damage or heal it.
  
• Expecting to be carried by a properly geared Healer/Tank and/or DPS.
  
• Making a fool out of yourself.
  

 

The worst part is that it appears that people think that because others cannot see their talent trees to see how they are specced that they cannot be caught out. They seem to forget that simple things like:

• Queuing as a Tank and not having a Shield offhand equipped or any gear with Defense/Shield/Absorption rating on it is a dead giveaway. (Not to mention having to be told by the rest of the group multiple times to switch to the appropriate form. )
  
• Vanguards/PowerTechs who queue as Tanks and are 30+ but never use "Storm"/"Jet Charge" (21 point talents in the tanking tree) are a dead giveaway.
  
• Shadows/Assassins who queue as Tanks and are 30+ but never use "Force Pull" (21 point talents in the tanking tree) are a dead giveaway.
  
• Guardians/Juggernauts who queue as Tanks and are 30+ but never use "Hilt Strike"/"Backhand" (21 point talents in the tanking tree) are a dead giveaway. (Not to mention Guardians/Juggernauts who take forever to achieve 5 stacks of Sunder Armor on a target, or even worse those that never even seem to apply a single stack.)
  
• Sages/Sorcerers who queue as Healers, are 30+ and whose "Force Armor"/"Static Barrier" explodes when it ends stunning all nearby enemies for 3 seconds due to "Kinect Collapse"/"Backlash" (16 and 17 point talent in the Telekinetics/Lightning trees, which means that they have very few (if any) points in the healing tree) are a dead giveaway.
  
• Sages/Sorcerers who queue as Healers but never use "Rejuvenate"/"Resurgence" (an instant heal with a Heal over Time component, 11 point talent in the healing tree) are a dead giveaway.
  
• Sages/Sorcerers who queue as Healers and are 30+ but never use "Healing Trance"/"Innervate" (another instant heal with a Heal over Time component, 21 point talent in the healing tree) are a dead giveaway.
  
• Commandos/Mercenaries who queue as Healers but never use "Kolto Bomb"/"Kolto Missile" (an Area of Effect heal that heals 4 allies, 11 point talent in the healing tree) are a dead giveaway.
  
• Commandos/Mercenaries who queue as Healers and are 30+ but never use "Trauma Probe"/"Kolto Shell" (21 point talent in the healing tree) are a dead giveaway.
  
• Scoundrels/Operatives who queue as Healers but never use "Slow-release Medpack"/"Kolto Probe" (a Heal over Time, 11 point talent in the healing tree) are a dead giveaway.
  
• Scoundrels/Operatives who queue as Healers and are 30+ but never use "Emergency Medpack"/"Kolto Probe" (21 point talent in the healing tree) are a dead giveaway.
  

 

The WORST though is that the fact that many who queue as Tanks and Healers compound things by not doing any of the above with having no concept of what it means to tank (grabbing enemies, holding threat, etc...) or how to heal (who to heal, when to use big/small heals, etc...). The ABSOLUTE WORSE is when you get both a healer and a tank who are neither .

 

Noone cares how uber you think you are! Noone cares that when you are with your friend who *is* a tank/healer you are able to heal/tank for them! Noone cares that in the previous run the healer kept you alive or you were able to keep the tank alive (that just means that *they* were properly geared and knew what they were doing and not that you are anything special)! Noone wants to carry you through the instance while suffering deaths and repair costs because you cannot fulfill your role!

 

What we all want is a pleasant and stress free run through a Flash Point killing mobs and bosses and collecting our rewards for doing so. Contribute to this by only queueing as what you are geared and specced for.

 

Seriously, please STOP queueing in Group Finder as a "Tank" or "Healer" if that is not the way your character is specialized or equipped.

 

NOTE: I have the utmost respect and admiration for those players that port into a Flash Point, say "Ahh, I'm the tank/healer. Give me a minute to respec." and then do a Field Respec there and then (and switch gear when they are the tank). This is not aimed at them.

[J__H]

There is a bug which queues people as a role they did not select, it is easy to overlook this once a queue pops as you wouldn't expect the system to be so idiotically flawed. That alone probably makes up for 80%+ of improper queues.

[Belacose]

A lot a people, particularly F2P, don't even know to uncheck the 'Healer' or 'Tank' box before Queueing up. Heck several of them don't even know the difference between 'Need' and 'Greed' or ever think to ever check the forums for advice.

[ZeroPlus]

There is a bug which queues people as a role they did not select, it is easy to overlook this once a queue pops as you wouldn't expect the system to be so idiotically flawed. That alone probably makes up for 80%+ of improper queues.

 

Yes. It does happen. When it happens to me and I end up as a healer or tank (as has happened before) I immediately apologize and leave the group.

 

There is no way I am going to subject other players to my lack of functionality in the role. I expect the same courtesy from others.

[JMCH]

I've seen some "tank" powertechs with most skill points invested in the proto tree, in fact it's not that bad, at least for FPs.

 

For the 2 other tanks, it's a little harder and most viable specs have 27+ in the tank tree.

 

As for the healers, it's somewhat hard to say, but even most HM FPs can be done without a real healer (or without a real DPS and 3 real healers ), it has to be known from the start and the gameplay should be adapted a little, but it's perfectly doable.

[J__H]

Like I said it's easy to overlook especially for people unaware of such a ridiculous bug. Best thing to do would be to inform such players of the bug and politely ask them to be more vigilant next time.

[ZeroPlus]

A lot a people, particularly F2P, don't even know to uncheck the 'Healer' or 'Tank' box before Queueing up. Heck several of them don't even know the difference between 'Need' and 'Greed' or ever think to ever check the forums for advice.

 

This is understandable in Esseles/Black Talon and to a lesser extent Hammer Station. It is up to all of us to educate players so that we all have a better experience. But after that? No way.

 

I have no patience for those that try and make fools of the others in the group. I call them out on their lack of gear and abilities. If they go silent or start to defend their right to do as they feel I initiate a kick: if it goes through (which it does 9 out of 10 times) the group waits a few minutes and we get a new healer/tank; if it doesn't I wish the group "good luck" and leave.

[ZeroPlus]

Like I said it's easy to overlook especially for people unaware of such a ridiculous bug. Best thing to do would be to inform such players of the bug and politely ask them to be more vigilant next time.

 

Yes: it is a ridiculous bug. Yes: it is easy to overlook.

 

But this isn't about inadvertantly being placed in a group as something you did not queue as. This is about those that purposefully queue as a tank or healer without being up to the role.

Edited January 11, 2013 by ZeroPlus

[OmenQ]

Last night my brother and I grouped up to run a Hard Mode Flashpoint. I am a Tank, and a good one at that. He is a healer, also good. I, being the group leader, queued us for Hard Modes. Queue instantly pops. I look at the list of players, and my brother was listed as a DPS. I know for certain that he doesn't have DPS checked in his group finder settings.

 

I think it's part of the bug, when you queue a group up for group finder.

 

We ran through Kaon just fine with 2 healers doing Heal/DPS. We had a well geared Marauder in our group, and my tank can take a LOT of damage before he needs heals.

 

TL;DR: It's not always the player's fault that they're selected for the wrong role.

[J__H]

Yes: it is a ridiculous bug. Yes: it is easy to overlook.

 

But this isn't about inadvertantly being placed in a group as something you did not queue as. This is about those that purposefully queue as a tank or healer without being up to the role.

 

Which I do not think happens very often at all and isn't much of an issue.

[ZeroPlus]

I've seen some "tank" powertechs with most skill points invested in the proto tree, in fact it's not that bad, at least for FPs.

 

For the 2 other tanks, it's a little harder and most viable specs have 27+ in the tank tree.

 

As for the healers, it's somewhat hard to say, but even most HM FPs can be done without a real healer (or without a real DPS and 3 real healers ), it has to be known from the start and the gameplay should be adapted a little, but it's perfectly doable.

 

Let me quote myself, as you seem to have missed this part:

Noone cares how uber you think you are! Noone cares that when you are with your friend who *is* a tank/healer you are able to heal/tank for them! Noone cares that in the previous run the healer kept you alive or you were able to keep the tank alive (that just means that *they* were properly geared and knew what they were doing and not that you are anything special)! Noone wants to carry you through the instance while suffering deaths and repair costs because you cannot fulfill your role!

 

What we all want is a pleasant and stress free run through a Flash Point killing mobs and bosses and collecting our rewards for doing so. Contribute to this by only queueing as what you are geared and specced for.

 

Seriously, please STOP queueing in Group Finder as a "Tank" or "Healer" if that is not the way your character is specialized or equipped.

 

All the situations you mentioned are "doable". Sure they are. But are they "pleasant and stress free". No, they are not.

[ZeroPlus]

Last night my brother and I grouped up to run a Hard Mode Flashpoint. I am a Tank, and a good one at that. He is a healer, also good. I, being the group leader, queued us for Hard Modes. Queue instantly pops. I look at the list of players, and my brother was listed as a DPS. I know for certain that he doesn't have DPS checked in his group finder settings.

 

I think it's part of the bug, when you queue a group up for group finder.

 

We ran through Kaon just fine with 2 healers doing Heal/DPS. We had a well geared Marauder in our group, and my tank can take a LOT of damage before he needs heals.

 

TL;DR: It's not always the player's fault that they're selected for the wrong role.

 

As mentioned in other replies, this isn't about being inadvertantly placed as something you did not choose in the Group Finder. This is about those that do so on purpose.

 

About your run: who was healing more? Your brother or the other healer? Was the other healer using the healing abilities I mentioned in my original post or was he getting by on the trainer learned skills? Think about that. Your run probably went "just fine" despite the bug because you were well geared, the DPS was well geared and your brother *is * a healer and knows what he was doing.

[SnoggyMack]

[*]Commandos/Mercenaries who queue as Healers and are 30+ but never use "Trauma Probe"/"Kolto Shell" (21 point talent in the healing tree) are a dead giveaway.

 

My combat medic has spent 32 points in the healing tree. But specced out of trauma probe months ago. It's just not worth the talent points these days.

[MorgothPl]

Sorry mate, but putting alacrity in healers gear is wrong. It should not be higher then 200, as it's better to stack more power/willpower/cunning/surge/crit then this one - proven on mmo-mechanics.com. So don't give false advice to people, that they should stack alacrity in lower levels, instead of power/crit and such.

[ZeroPlus]

Yes: it is a ridiculous bug. Yes: it is easy to overlook.

 

But this isn't about inadvertantly being placed in a group as something you did not queue as. This is about those that purposefully queue as a tank or healer without being up to the role.

 

Which I do not think happens very often at all and isn't much of an issue.

 

It happens and it happens a lot. You probably just never realized you were being made a fool of.

 

Let me ask you to think back on your Flash Point runs.

 

I'm sure you've noticed that some runs are smooth with no hiccups: the healer keeps everyone healed, the tank never dies, the mob the tank was hitting never runs off to attack the healer or the DPS, the tank never dies when the boss is at 5% health because he couldn't take the damage or because the healer couldn't keep him healed, etc...

When this happens, you got queued with people that are specced and geared for their roles.

 

I'm sure that you've also noticed that some runs (in exactly the same FP that you ran previously with no issues) are complete nightmares: tanks who die within seconds of pulling a large trash group, healers who only start healing when players are at 30% or less, trash pack fights that end with everyone almost dead (or with one or two players dead), tanks that attack the weakest mob in the pack and then complain they aren't being healed because the healer is being mauled by the strongs/elites in the pack, etc...

When this happens, the group was being played for a fool by either the tank or the healer (or in some cases, both).

 

This is a real problem and it needs to stop. For everyone's sake.

[Larity]

My guardian tank doesn't use hilt strike.

[ZeroPlus]

My combat medic has spent 32 points in the healing tree. But specced out of trauma probe months ago. It's just not worth the talent points these days.

 

I see. That is good to know. But what does that have to do with the topic at hand?

 

You are specced as a healer. So you don't use "1 ability" I mentioned. Does that somehow excuse those who aren't specced as healers but queue as healers? Do you enjoy people telling you that Commandos suck as healers because their previous Commando "healer" was terrible?

[drmcnasty]

Eh, it's hard to gear with Tank gear and stuff around 25ish just because if there is any on the GTN, it's so damn expensive.

[BobaScott]

Yes please. Had a DPS come into a HM FP last in the healer mode. It took a wipe on the first boss before the tank began to ask about the total lack of heals, to which said "healer" stated that heals are not necessary on this FP and we all sucked for getting wiped.

 

Kicked him and thankfully an actual healer joined a few minutes later.

[ZeroPlus]

Sorry mate, but putting alacrity in healers gear is wrong. It should not be higher then 200, as it's better to stack more power/willpower/cunning/surge/crit then this one - proven on mmo-mechanics.com. So don't give false advice to people, that they should stack alacrity in lower levels, instead of power/crit and such.

 

But they do use "alacrity" whether or not it is a priority. You said it yourself: "It should not be higher then 200, as it's better to stack more power/willpower/cunning/surge/crit then this one".

 

This isn't about whether having or not having alacrity is good for a healer. This is about players who queue as healers when they cannot fullfil the role.

[DarthTHC]

There is a bug which queues people as a role they did not select, it is easy to overlook this once a queue pops as you wouldn't expect the system to be so idiotically flawed. That alone probably makes up for 80%+ of improper queues.

 

I have never... not once... experienced this bug on any character ever. I do multiple flashpoints via groupfinder every day.

 

I think this is a cop out.

[SnoggyMack]

I see. That is good to know. But what does that have to do with the topic at hand?

 

Well you state not having Trauma Probe is a dead giveaway. But we could run a flashpoint together and I wouldn't use trauma probe. I'm still 32 points into the tree, specced as a healer and played combat medic from the very beginning.

 

I guess I'm trying to expand the knowledge presented in this discussion? To point out to folks that not all combat medics have trauma probe because it's been changed and isn't very good anymore.

[ZeroPlus]

My guardian tank doesn't use hilt strike.

 

Well, good for you. I guess.

 

But again, what exactly does that have to do with the topic?

 

You said it yourself: "My guardian tank". I imagine that means you are specced into the tank tree, and that you use a Shield offhand and have tanking gear. Correct? If so, then this isn't aimed at you (or others like you). This topic is aimed at those that make YOU look bad because they queue as Guardian tanks without being able to fulfill the role.

[Alec_Fortescue]

I always queue as a tank for normal mode operations, even though I am a dps in the best 63s gear. I've yet to see any party which has two tanks in those. And queue pops quickly. there will be a problem if another tank queued with my idea but I've yet to see it. Edited January 11, 2013 by Alec_Fortescue

[ZeroPlus]

Eh, it's hard to gear with Tank gear and stuff around 25ish just because if there is any on the GTN, it's so damn expensive.

 

Actually, it isn't hard at all.

 

EVERY SINGLE PLANET has a "Mod Vendor" and a "Weapon Vendor". The "Mod Vendor" will have Commando, Guardian and Force Wielder armorings (that prioritize Endurance) for sale. The "Weapon Vendor" will have moddable Techblades, Techstaves and Vibroblades on sale that will have defensive Mods and Enhancements in them that can be stripped out and equipped.

 

Anyone who is concerned about being able to do their role will explore any avenue to do so. This post is not aimed at those people.

 

This is aimed at those that aren't tanks/healers, that don't want to be tanks/healers and yet they *still* queue as tanks/healers because it is faster and they expect the group will carry them. When the group falls apart because of them, they are the first to call the others "noobs".

Edited January 11, 2013 by ZeroPlus