Power Creep

[zerorsw]

So I just thought that I would bring this up as a discussion and get people's thoughts on it. I would love to hear other players thoughts on weather or not they feel its (Power Creep) already happening to SWTOR, and if they think BioWare should be on the lookout for ways to deal with it.

 

For those that don't know what power creep its we have

video, And the following definition provided by a wiki entry.

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.[1] The phenomenon may be caused by a number of different factors and, in extreme cases, can be damaging to the longevity of the game in which it takes place.

Edited January 10, 2013 by zerorsw

[LogicalPremise]

It would be useful if you could provide even a single example of this implied power-creep. Aside from stunlocking, which hasn't been fixed.

[zerorsw]

It would be useful if you could provide even a single example of this implied power-creep. Aside from stunlocking, which hasn't been fixed.

 

What do you mean provide a single example? I'm going to assume that by asking that, you think I'm implying somehow that the power creep process has already begun with the game?

Edited January 10, 2013 by zerorsw

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

Power creep hasn't been too bad so far. The minor changes in Elite War Hero vs War Hero seem to indicate that they are aware of the dangers and trying to be careful.

 

Also the last Q&A reference they are somehow changing the gear grind soon, this may be to address exactly that issue, but that's just speculation.

[zerorsw]

...

Also the last Q&A reference they are somehow changing the gear grind soon, this may be to address exactly that issue, but that's just speculation.

 

That is an interesting tid-bit, I'll have to keep that in mind.

[Bargepole]

Clear skies causing morning frost.

[Listerman]

I haven't experienced any Power Creep myself...I still get my *** kicked appropriately in many cases...And we're only one "expansion" on the horizon, so I think we have a while before the Creep takes full effect.

And the Creep is part of the makeup. It's gonna happen, the only question is when.

[zerorsw]

Listerman, so you feel its more of an inevitability. hmm interesting take on it I guess.

[Mistress_Ivi]

The moment you do the following, it happens ...

 

Tier based gear.

Planets or areas bought with real money and unlock new higher levels - normally DLC or expansion or both.

 

SWG basically had a "cap" and added in new super weapons near the end... but everyone could get them for money - SWTOR like Rift and so many other MMO's seem to really enjoy the long-donkey-grind of weeks and weeks sometimes months to get the next 'level up' - and that's where it begins.

 

I know when I get my first *live* toon to 50 (having 3 on the PTS) even though I get two free suits - I'll still be way undergeared and unwanted, even though she'll be a tank assassin.

[zerorsw]

I sorta feel the same way. I feel like the major issue is tired vertical progress that is the fundamental cause of most power creep.

[TUXs]

Power creep hasn't been too bad so far. The minor changes in Elite War Hero vs War Hero seem to indicate that they are aware of the dangers and trying to be careful.

 

Also the last Q&A reference they are somehow changing the gear grind soon, this may be to address exactly that issue, but that's just speculation.

 

I completely agree!!! I LOVE that the EWH gear is just 'slightly' better...we don't need massive swings in gear like we've had - minimal and minor boosts are just as much incentive as massive jumps to serious players.

[DataBeaver]

I think some amount of power creep is inevitable in any MMORPG that caters for serious gamers. Many of these players have a fixation for having the best possible equipment, so you have to give them something new to work towards every now and then. The trick is in managing the rate of the creep so that newer or casual players can get on and keep up. I think so far SW:TOR has done pretty well in this regard.

[kirorx]

I completely agree!!! I LOVE that the EWH gear is just 'slightly' better...we don't need massive swings in gear like we've had - minimal and minor boosts are just as much incentive as massive jumps to serious players.

 

Agreed. PvP since warhero gear for comms has been awesome. Gone are the days of BM wearing level 50's crushing my level 30 assassin in void star.

 

No more BM bags and a smaller gap. The last few gear updates have been positive,

[zerorsw]

I see a lot of pvp specific references, but what about the game as a whole?

[Majspuffen]

I dare say that this game is heavily affected by power creep, ever since 1.2 when they implemented Augments. It was worse in 1.3, when you could augment your entire set. In fact, it was so bad that they had to redesign the PvP relics, in an attempt to lower burst... but all they did was to increase sustained damage even more.

 

The so-called "time to kill" in this game is way too low right now. In my opinion, PvP has only gotten worse since 1.2. The time on stuns is far too long considering how long it takes to kill a person. I'll give you two examples from some pvp I did today:

 

First example: I sat on defense at west, in stealth on my Jedi Shadow. An assassin snuck up on me, and a powertech came running in the distance. So I CCed the assassin, dropped what I was doing and typed in chat "2 west" as fast as I could, then I was forced to pop resilience and vanish. I was at 40% HP. I'm in full War Hero with a few Elite War Hero pieces. I sit on 20k hp. And I'm not a slow typer... granted, I play DPS on my Jedi Shadow so I'm wearing light/medium-ish armor.

 

Second example: Also novare coast. I sat on defense again, a Sorc ran and started to cap the base. I reported in chat before I left stealth and interrupted the cap. When I leave stealth, another assassin opens up on me. I push him away and pop Force Lift, which is an 8 second mez. During that time, I manage to slaughter the sorcerer before the duration of Force Lift expired. The Sorc had around 17k hp or so, so not the best gear... but still.

 

Damage is way out of line in PvP. It's not enjoyable anymore. I get frustrated more often than not and my subscription really hangs in the balance. Prior to 1.2 I used to have fun in PvP all the time. The game had a great pace (with the occasional stalemate but that still happens <.<) where CCs were used tactically. Today, people just throw CC around willy nilly, because there are no repercussions.

 

So yeah... from a PvP p.o.v, I sure feel the power creep. And I am not a fan.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

I dare say that this game is heavily affected by power creep, ever since 1.2 when they implemented Augments. It was worse in 1.3, when you could augment your entire set. In fact, it was so bad that they had to redesign the PvP relics, in an attempt to lower burst... but all they did was to increase sustained damage even more.

...

I'm in full War Hero with a few Elite War Hero pieces. I sit on 20k hp.

 

So what it sounds like is you're mad you have to augment your gear, hence you aren't doing it, hence you have a slight disadvantage...

[BadOrb]

I like hybrid skill tree builds , but isn't that something that other people don't like ? I mean with the new cap increasing from 50 - 55 , which will probably be 5 skill points , then that's going to make pvp have imbalances. Mind you they are planning on doing some tweeks to the game to rectify that. Still I'm looking forward to adding those 5 skill points on my characters in their trees.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

Edited January 10, 2013 by BadOrb

[Master-Nala]

Power creep isn't necessarily a bad thing. The whole point of MMORPGs is the gradual acquisition of power. The thing that SWTOR needs to watch out for is when power creep backs them into a corner. For example, in Everquest II, crits started much like they are here. Having 30% crit was amazing. Eventually though they allowed people to get to 100% crit. And they had nowhere else to go. So they started giving NPCs the ability to contest crits so they could keep giving people more crit. I think folks there now are running around with 300-400% crit rate.

[Majspuffen]

So what it sounds like is you're mad you have to augment your gear, hence you aren't doing it, hence you have a slight disadvantage...

 

I've had epic augments in every slot that's been available since 1.2. I do not have a shortage of credits in the game. I'm fully geared, and on par with everyone else. Yet the damage is so ridiculous, you die in the 4 sec stuns anyways. That is what I am mad about.

[Anosa]

the best way to counter this is to make it so players who want to do a level 55 op for makeb.. would have to complete the lvl 50 op to get the waypoint for the next place. As for dungeons, make it where your player obtains a shield generator or an item that protects the from a bosses one shot. This would make older zones doable.

[Listerman]

Listerman, so you feel its more of an inevitability. hmm interesting take on it I guess.

 

It happens in all MMO's I've been in...or at least the one's where gear was a thing...City of Heroes was kind of an oddity.

[DawnAskham]

Power creep exists in SWTOR, though not as bad as in say WoW, though that is more due to WoW having released four major expansion compared to none for SWTOR rather than SWTOR having somehow designed a game more resistant to power creep.

 

Even without a major expansion, SWTOR has seen power creep in the base game this first year through the addition of things such as:

 

Legacy / birthright gear.

Legacy perks such as companion bonuses.

Augment kits.

 

All of these items allow characters today to reach power levels in the base game that were not obtainable at release.

 

One could also consider some of the boost items a form of power creep as they allow players to level or acquire things like valor levels faster than was previously possible.

 

And of course games will always have power creep when they use stat based gear based progression systems.

 

Players today have access to gear at 50 that is much more powerful than the gear available at 50 last year, yet the older content such as T1 HM Flashpoints and the original Operations are still balanced for the lessor gear.

Edited January 10, 2013 by DawnAskham

[zerorsw]

Players today have access to gear at 50 that is much more powerful than the gear available at 50 last year, yet the older content such as T1 HM Flashpoints and the original Operations are still balanced for the lessor gear.

 

Which is the main part of power creep I think is most damaging. The second part of power creep that is dangerous imo, is when content is released that has no incentives to revisit older content (IE: lower level planets here)

[slafko]

Players today have access to gear at 50 that is much more powerful than the gear available at 50 last year, yet the older content such as T1 HM Flashpoints and the original Operations are still balanced for the lessor gear.

 

And yet, people still manage to wipe in said T1HM flashpoints even while wearing Rakata/BH/DG gear. I'm not talking about Kaon, I'm talking of Taral V and Maelstrom Prison. Some people can't play to save their own lives, no matter the gear they have on.

[zerorsw]

And yet, people still manage to wipe in said T1HM flashpoints even while wearing Rakata/BH/DG gear. I'm not talking about Kaon, I'm talking of Taral V and Maelstrom Prison. Some people can't play to save their own lives, no matter the gear they have on.

That isn't really the point he was trying to make, at least I dont think so. Its not like just because the gear is better people will be able to roll through the hardmodes no problem. Plus people wiping or having trouble or difficulties with content isn't really the topic at hand anyway.