RuQu Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Lowering rapid scan down to 1.7s . THerefore assuming you cast it 5 times in a row, (you wouldnt really because of heat) thats 5 * 1.7 vs 5 * 2.0 of what your saying so its 8.5seconds vs 10 seconds. in that 1.5 seconds you could have casted emergency scan, or a healing scan... If you notice almost all healing gear has alacrity and power for a reason.. power gives you a higher percentage of healing than adding in crit + surge. crit + surge is good to a certain point, around 250 surge is to much with current update cuz u hit a huge drop in gain from it, same for crit chance. hence why power/alacrity is what good healers use. so now that you understand its better to stack power/alacrity, because it heals more and heals faster, what is your problem? if you are over heating refer to my above post on why you're doing it wrong WRONG WRONG There are complexities here beyond what your simplistic model takes into account. Things are very straightforward in a world that is massively over-simplified. Increase the complexity to actually model what is happening (passive regen in the background with thresholds that can change the amount regenned partway through a cast, the cooldowns on Healing Scan and Emergency Scan, etc) and suddenly your simplistic results no longer apply. If you aren't even going to try to understand the complexity of the issue, we can't really have a discussion because we are discussing different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravnik Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Awesome read, thanks! I have only had the game a week, and decided to go merc. I was going to go dps, but during one of the heroics found myself healing, and enjoyed it, feeling like i was doing something useful!! So now i have decided to go bodyguard, and your post has been a great help. Keep up the good work! And yes Green is MY favorite colour as well!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediNazgul Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Haha I have green crystals in my gun so even when I shoot people,(I know i am not supposed to), its green. This is a great guide thank you so much. I have definitely learnt a lot from it and look forward to any updates to it. Edited March 6, 2012 by JediNazgul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_Pitt Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 There are complexities here beyond what your simplistic model takes into account. Things are very straightforward in a world that is massively over-simplified. Increase the complexity to actually model what is happening (passive regen in the background with thresholds that can change the amount regenned partway through a cast, the cooldowns on Healing Scan and Emergency Scan, etc) and suddenly your simplistic results no longer apply. If you aren't even going to try to understand the complexity of the issue, we can't really have a discussion because we are discussing different things. Pumped out some pretty hard data there bro. all the stuff you just said back to me, is what I already said in what you quoted me in.... if your at 56 heat, u pop super charged cells ( u vent 16 right away) and u get to the zone of being 0-40 heat which dissipates it at 5 heat/sec.... u purposefully want to get to 70 ish heat when pop vent heat. ur only take in heat cost in to account, imt aking heat cost and opportunity cost. dont talk unless you understand what ur saying. http://www.google.com/defineopportunitycost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Pumped out some pretty hard data there bro. all the stuff you just said back to me, is what I already said in what you quoted me in.... if your at 56 heat, u pop super charged cells ( u vent 16 right away) and u get to the zone of being 0-40 heat which dissipates it at 5 heat/sec.... u purposefully want to get to 70 ish heat when pop vent heat. ur only take in heat cost in to account, imt aking heat cost and opportunity cost. dont talk unless you understand what ur saying. http://www.google.com/defineopportunitycost Feel free to look around the forums, I've posted the data plenty of places if you bother to take the time to look at it. VH has a 2 minute cooldown. You also won't intentionally go to 70 Heat just to use VH. You aren't a DPSer, you only heal when healing is needed, not because you can. As for SCG, yes it returns heat. Congrats on understanding exactly what an ability says it does in the tooltip. That does not change the fact that increased net cost of abilities means you will drop into the medium regen sooner when chain casting at high alacrity than at low alacrity. Due to balance of costs and regen rates, this is only a marginal problem for a chain casting Merc, but a pretty big one for a chain casting Commando. Again...the charts and data are all over if you only bother to look. That said....healers don't tend to chain cast. I'm currently working on trying to come up with a model that puts value on the increase in downtime with increased stats. For a given fight, a boss does the same DPS no matter what gear the healer is wearing. That means that when your gear is low, you will be casting more than when your gear is high. If you increase Power/Crit/Surge, you will wait longer before casting your heal since it is stronger and you don't want to overheal. If you increase Alacrity, you will cast it at the same time as a lower geared player, but then wait after the cast. Both give you increased non-casting time, so both are a benefit. I'm waiting on some feedback from some other theory people before tossing out any more, but that's where the latest data is taking me. As a teaser...it's looking to be roughly on par with Surge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempestasSilva Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'm currently working on trying to come up with a model that puts value on the increase in downtime with increased stats. Based on the quality of your previous work, I am really looking forward to this. Thank you for your continued contributions to the community, they are appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Based on the quality of your previous work, I am really looking forward to this. Thank you for your continued contributions to the community, they are appreciated. I've got some prelim stuff up at the end of this thread. Please take a look and see if there are flaws in the reasoning, etc. I'd rather have my mistakes pointed out than ignore them...it creates a better product and more benefit to than community than sticking my head in the sand. Rather not derail this thread with that discussion though, but I will post my results here once I'm happy with their quality and soundness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_Pitt Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Feel free to look around the forums, I've posted the data plenty of places if you bother to take the time to look at it. VH has a 2 minute cooldown. You also won't intentionally go to 70 Heat just to use VH. You aren't a DPSer, you only heal when healing is needed, not because you can. As for SCG, yes it returns heat. Congrats on understanding exactly what an ability says it does in the tooltip. That does not change the fact that increased net cost of abilities means you will drop into the medium regen sooner when chain casting at high alacrity than at low alacrity. Due to balance of costs and regen rates, this is only a marginal problem for a chain casting Merc, but a pretty big one for a chain casting Commando. Again...the charts and data are all over if you only bother to look. That said....healers don't tend to chain cast. I'm currently working on trying to come up with a model that puts value on the increase in downtime with increased stats. For a given fight, a boss does the same DPS no matter what gear the healer is wearing. That means that when your gear is low, you will be casting more than when your gear is high. If you increase Power/Crit/Surge, you will wait longer before casting your heal since it is stronger and you don't want to overheal. If you increase Alacrity, you will cast it at the same time as a lower geared player, but then wait after the cast. Both give you increased non-casting time, so both are a benefit. I'm waiting on some feedback from some other theory people before tossing out any more, but that's where the latest data is taking me. As a teaser...it's looking to be roughly on par with Surge. What are you talking about.. YOu want to purposefully over heat then pop vent heat... From your logic you're saying to pop vent heat when your at 50 heat, which is worthless, because you would pop that, at 50 heat and then you would be back at 0 heat, then while ur casting your next ability, your not losing any heat, so its inefficient. If you have 2 points on making it vent 16 heat instantly, how can you honestly tell me that you wouldnt want to get to 70+ heat, if you didnt get to 70+ heat you would be wasting heat when you pop vent heat because your not dissipating heat back to 0 as you casting your next thing, according to you you want to be back at 0 and cast something, which is completly wrong because your missing out on an extra cast.... i dont know why ur even talking still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_Pitt Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Just say you're wrong RuQu and move on, you're a complete fool and anything you say is all about theory, I am saying only things I actually do and have done, and a lot of people on my server ask me how the hell do you pump out 34+ powershots in a row without overheating, and yes a healer is still dps, you still dont know what your talking about, powershot deals way more dmg than tracer missle does, I see my self critting all the time for 3.2k-3.4k and with tracer missle its around 2.9k-3.1k even with the debuff stacked on them for 20% less armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) What are you talking about.. YOu want to purposefully over heat then pop vent heat... From your logic you're saying to pop vent heat when your at 50 heat, which is worthless, because you would pop that, at 50 heat and then you would be back at 0 heat, then while ur casting your next ability, your not losing any heat, so its inefficient. If you have 2 points on making it vent 16 heat instantly, how can you honestly tell me that you wouldnt want to get to 70+ heat, if you didnt get to 70+ heat you would be wasting heat when you pop vent heat because your not dissipating heat back to 0 as you casting your next thing, according to you you want to be back at 0 and cast something, which is completly wrong because your missing out on an extra cast.... i dont know why ur even talking still If you want to make a point, please try and think it out enough to type it clearly. Reading your rambles is painful. As a healer, if you top everyone off and are at 50 heat, and no one needs healing. You can do some DPS to get to 70 and pop VH, pop it at 50, or just wait to let it go down. What you won't do is just randomly heal full health people to get to 70. Depending on your setup, you may want to DPS to help meet the enrage timer. That's one option. On the other hand, if your group isn't taking much damage, you may want to just wait to use it so it is available in an emergency later. That's all pretty obvious. Not sure why it is unclear to you. That said, it appears you never have anything actually constructive to say, so welcome to this forum ignore list tool I just discovered! You can expect no further replies from me. *edit* Ah...now it makes sense. Our brilliant friend is arguing about DPS in a Healing thread. Yes, clearly when doing DPS you will always be chain casting, and, yes, obviously, you will want to build as much heat as possible every time VH comes off cooldown. Congrats on discovering the painfully obvious. Edited March 7, 2012 by RuQu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpf Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Fascinating, I am enjoying the BH healing, though I find in times of crises I run into heat issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Got my latest analysis of Alacrity written up. Short version: your worst stat in Tionese due to the low strength of heals causing you to chain-cast more. As your other stats improve and you can gain some down-time, Alacrity improves and becomes roughly the same as Surge. See the link for assumptions, details, plots, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newyankalt Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Bump its a great guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimefist Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Bump this thread : D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmcbo Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Very good guide- but I've noticed in PVP that you might just want to use kolto shell on yourself- since everyone is gunning for you, you might as well add EVEN MORE damage reduction onto guard. People seem to attack the tank so rarely that not putting the shell on them usually isn't a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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