wadecounty Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Let's call a spade, a spade... We are worst at threat generation...I have switched to 18/23 recently to aid threat generation and even now I am not where we, as a class, should be. I think getting our dps to close to 900 is not an unreasonable idea to improve holding bosses in NiM ops. It is what it is...and we need to either start building more offensively to compensate....or we need a base damage adjustment to get to even keel. I tend to think an adjustment is not forthcoming....so I am going to do what I personally can to get my threat up. Wait, you think with an entire rebalance of all the classes and skill trees, you think its more likely that Bioware does nothing to touch our damage/threat and expect us to be the only tank class to have to stack offensive stats to be viable? That make absolutely no sense. On top of that, taunts still account for more of our threat than any sort of DPS stats will ever come close to, I'll tank strength over Endurance in some cases but I'll never take DPS stats over mitigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephesia Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Wait, you think with an entire rebalance of all the classes and skill trees, you think its more likely that Bioware does nothing to touch our damage/threat and expect us to be the only tank class to have to stack offensive stats to be viable? That make absolutely no sense. On top of that, taunts still account for more of our threat than any sort of DPS stats will ever come close to, I'll tank strength over Endurance in some cases but I'll never take DPS stats over mitigation. Obviously this can't be intended, a tank in normal cases shouldn't be hunting for might hilts / armorings or power crystals, but it is happening quite often now with the juggernaut tanks limited ability to push for damage, especially on full defense build. My expectation and most heartfelt hope is that BW will use the momentum from the expansion to make a major overhaul to address specifically about the weakness of the Immortal / Defense tree and buff Guardian Slash back to where it should be provided with either an increased threat multiplier to GS / Hilt Strike or a base Damage increase on them. A relative cooldown reduction on Hilt Strike could also help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planet_J Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Wait, you think with an entire rebalance of all the classes and skill trees, you think its more likely that Bioware does nothing to touch our damage/threat and expect us to be the only tank class to have to stack offensive stats to be viable? That make absolutely no sense. On top of that, taunts still account for more of our threat than any sort of DPS stats will ever come close to, I'll tank strength over Endurance in some cases but I'll never take DPS stats over mitigation. They only confirmed adding a new tier of skills, my expectations are that they will be above the 31 pt talent and little to no actual rebalancing will likely occur. If it does great...but somehow, I can't help feeling someone is going to get left in the cold...with the state of mercs and some of the other classes we are not that bad off. I think our dps should be between a trooper/bh and a shadow/assassin tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyxin Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) They only confirmed adding a new tier of skills, my expectations are that they will be above the 31 pt talent and little to no actual rebalancing will likely occur. If it does great...but somehow, I can't help feeling someone is going to get left in the cold...with the state of mercs and some of the other classes we are not that bad off. I think our dps should be between a trooper/bh and a shadow/assassin tank. I'd be comfortable with that too. But I'm of the camp that a tank doing damage isn't a bad thing, whereas Bio is still under the impression that just because your are a "tank" you shouldn't be doing any damage (which is silly in a raid environment, but that's a different argument). Were a bit lacking in the damage department ATM, and the thorn that's always been in my side was the damage cuts were made for no reason with no explanation. Was simply unwarranted. On the original Topic, i agree that 28k/30/55/55 is the "top" end. It's what you shoot for. not the "entry level" do you need it to do TFB? no, most of us walked into those instances with less then that. but it's the goal you shoot for. the interesting thing to me is how it's changed. but I m assuming that higher tier content drives the necessity of increased mitigations (although without a way to eventually balance that out, were going to start to see very silly numbers for mitigations...were already almost at 60%...only have another 40% to go before we mitigate all damage ) Edited January 13, 2013 by Elyxin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planet_J Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I'd be comfortable with that too. But I'm of the camp that a tank doing damage isn't a bad thing, whereas Bio is still under the impression that just because your are a "tank" you shouldn't be doing any damage (which is silly in a raid environment, but that's a different argument). Were a bit lacking in the damage department ATM, and the thorn that's always been in my side was the damage cuts were made for no reason with no explanation. Was simply unwarranted. On the original Topic, i agree that 28k/30/55/55 is the "top" end. It's what you shoot for. not the "entry level" do you need it to do TFB? no, most of us walked into those instances with less then that. but it's the goal you shoot for. the interesting thing to me is how it's changed. but I m assuming that higher tier content drives the necessity of increased mitigations (although without a way to eventually balance that out, were going to start to see very silly numbers for mitigations...were already almost at 60%...only have another 40% to go before we mitigate all damage ) I think we ought to be able to do about 50-60% of the damage that the class dps counterpart does in equal gear. So, for example, if a vengeance jugg does 1800 an equally geared tank should be doing about 900. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thealon Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Just a side note ... the dps in my guild already broke the 2000 dps ... some of them even got more than 2100 dps Even our Vengeance Juggernauts do about 1950 dps while tank Juggernauts are still somewhere below 700. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagertharn Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 so i made a build on ask mr robot is this right guys? i'm not really sure i've always dps'ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithgreyguard Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) immortal juggs still good for endgame ops hm ec and higher? Edited February 6, 2013 by sithgreyguard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakeableCoyote Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Hi this is my current gear and I was wondering whether I needed to change anything since I see some Jugg tanks with far less accuracy then I have, http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/bc054997-17c7-4495-9dbe-9e1b17b7869a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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