Vanguard's The easiest Target in PVP

[xBloodcrazed]

Greeting's SWTOR Community, I've come to these forums cause I am concerned that BW is over looking Vanguard's need for an escape mech. Before I go into details id like to provide my background, I am a career republic player, a pre-launch vanguard VR 100, 2650+ rating, and over 75 days played. Ive also leveled and played extensively a Sabotage Gunslinger aswell as a Focus Guardian. From my pvp experience ive come to the conclusion that Vanguard's are the easiest to down and have no way of surviving a bad situation. Bioware has announced they are looking at ways to give commando's an escape mech and its my hope that Vanguard's are not over looked.

 

Some examples of what I mean, If a Jedi knight leaps to a Vanguard we have to drop whatever we are doing and fight the jedi knight or we are dead (VG slow is worse then JK's, as well VG's have no knockback, mez, vanish, hostile/friendly leaps, even a Commando which BW seems concerned about can knock people back into the pit or whatever. Ranged classes are a major bane for VG's now since we cant pull Gunslingers, If we pull a commando who opens on us from range they just use their knockback, and Sage's have their knockback and sprint off cooldown twice before a VG pull comes off of cooldown.

 

Now i dont feel like commenting on every classes ability to escape a bad situation but I can comment on the Classes ive played.

 

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[HeIIbat]

So most unbalanced class need escape skill ? Why not make flameburst energy dmg and lower armor penetration on railshot ?

[RazielHex]

From my pvp experience ive come to the conclusion that Vanguard's are the easiest to down and have no way of surviving a bad situation

 

Aaaahhh-hahahaha....

[LoL-K-Noob]

Uh no dude, vanguard puts out the most unhealable damage and can do their big hitter at 30m. You asking for a freaking buff what a joke.

[JackNader]

Vanguard / PT's are fine. They have the best damage potential in the game and are balanced by the fact that they are super squishy. I don't want to see the DPS specs changed at all.

[NathanielStarr]

So most unbalanced class need escape skill ? Why not make flameburst energy dmg and lower armor penetration on railshot ?

 

No not the most unbalanced, that title still goes to Jedi Knights/Sith Warriors. That said I think the OP just needs to do some 50 PvP with a sniper or a sorcerer.

Edited January 5, 2013 by NathanielStarr

[bibbyd]

No not the most unbalanced, that title still goes to Jedi Knights/Sith Warriors. That said I think the OP just needs to do some 50 PvP with a sniper or a sorcerer.

 

sorry but ur wrong. VG/PTs are still the most unbalanced.

[cashogy]

not sure if serious or just dumb

[LoL-K-Noob]

sorry but ur wrong. VG/PTs are still the most unbalanced.

 

Not to mention they aint getting nerfed

[Technohic]

I'm with you OP. Oh. And please buff assassins so they are tankier outside of dark charge. And it would be really cool if smash was as effective for all marauder builds as it is rage so we don't have so many rage marauders anymore.

 

That is all.

[-Holmes]

And nerf operatives while at it.

[Huggsnotdruggs]

Vanguard. Escape. Vanguard. Escape. These are mutually exclusive breh.

[Senga_J]

As a powertech myself... You're joking right?

[DrewFromPhilly]

A vanguard who is jealous of commandos?

 

Well, that's a first.

[ArchangelLBC]

7/10.

 

Did you actually suggest the class with perhaps the best, most uncounterable single target burst in the game would lose to a commando? Are you high?

 

Yes Pyro PTs and Assault VGs are kind of glass cannons, but unlike some other classes at least they get one hell of a cannon.

[NotAnyOldName]

If we pull a commando who opens on us from range they just use their knockback

 

Trust me, I have been playing Merc/Mando for awhile now and knocking back a VG/PT only delays ones death momentarily. If you play a Commando and you are suddenly targeted by an even semi competent Powertech the only result for you is death. The only way to survive is completely relying on your team to bail you out, we have nothing to counter you, let alone full melee classes, especially in Gunnery spec. At least with Assault we can somewhat snare you and slow you down, though you have the exact same capability with a 100% chance for it to proc with your no CD spamable elemental damage ability; compared to our 16% talented chance.

 

Commando/Mercenary definitely need a buff, Powertech/Vanguard do not.

[Larry_Dallas]

No not the most unbalanced, that title still goes to Jedi Knights/Sith Warriors. That said I think the OP just needs to do some 50 PvP with a sniper or a sorcerer.

 

I have a Valor 85 DPS sorc and a Valor 60 DPS Van and I happen to agree with him.

 

They don't need much, mind you. That 30% snare going back to 50 would probably be enough without making them overpowered. That change really hurt vanguards vs marauders.

[Larry_Dallas]

Trust me, I have been playing Merc/Mando for awhile now and knocking back a VG/PT only delays ones death momentarily. If you play a Commando and you are suddenly targeted by an even semi competent Powertech the only result for you is death. The only way to survive is completely relying on your team to bail you out, we have nothing to counter you, let alone full melee classes, especially in Gunnery spec. At least with Assault we can somewhat snare you and slow you down, though you have the exact same capability with a 100% chance for it to proc with your no CD spamable elemental damage ability; compared to our 16% talented chance.

 

Commando/Mercenary definitely need a buff, Powertech/Vanguard do not.

 

I took a non-pvp spec into a warzone and couldn't kill a pvp spec with it is what you're saying.

[dejavy]

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No thx, we got it.

[NotAnyOldName]

I took a non-pvp spec into a warzone and couldn't kill a pvp spec with it is what you're saying.

 

There should be no PVE spec and PVP spec, every spec in a perfect world should be viable. Saying its a PVE spec doesn't negate that it is unbalanced and very underpowered.

 

That said I don't expect a Gunnery Commando to outright defeat a Assualt VG by any means, but getting destroyed without a chance is not right. All I ask is a little more survivability and more escape so we are not completely shut down by every class.

Edited January 5, 2013 by NotAnyOldName

[Individual]

Greeting's SWTOR Community, I've come to these forums cause I am concerned that BW is over looking Vanguard's need for an escape mech. Before I go into details id like to provide my background, I am a career republic player, a pre-launch vanguard VR 100, 2650+ rating, and over 75 days played. Ive also leveled and played extensively a Sabotage Gunslinger aswell as a Focus Guardian. From my pvp experience ive come to the conclusion that Vanguard's are the easiest to down and have no way of surviving a bad situation. Bioware has announced they are looking at ways to give commando's an escape mech and its my hope that Vanguard's are not over looked.

 

Some examples of what I mean, If a Jedi knight leaps to a Vanguard we have to drop whatever we are doing and fight the jedi knight or we are dead (VG slow is worse then JK's, as well VG's have no knockback, mez, vanish, hostile/friendly leaps, even a Commando which BW seems concerned about can knock people back into the pit or whatever. Ranged classes are a major bane for VG's now since we cant pull Gunslingers, If we pull a commando who opens on us from range they just use their knockback, and Sage's have their knockback and sprint off cooldown twice before a VG pull comes off of cooldown.

 

Now i dont feel like commenting on every classes ability to escape a bad situation but I can comment on the Classes ive played.

 

MORE EDITING INCOMING

 

I agree with the OP. Ya, Vanguards can burst, but we have the worse defensive cooldowns in the game. Assasins, Muraders, and Jugs can all burst just as much as Vanguards and PTS, yet they have all forms of defensive cooldowns available to them. Furthermore, they also have a better gap closer than Vanguards and PTs via force run or murlitple leaps. Vanguards and PTs are stuck with a 45 second leash, yet we were forced to play melee. You guys are complaining about Rail and Bolt, yet every other class has an ability that will hit just as hard if not harder. Smash, mal, annhilate, ravage, force screm, vicious throw. Heck, even deathfield gets close to hitting as hard as rail shot. Most the dmg Vanguards and PTs do come from flameburst, not rail, which is an instant cast ability with no cooldown. The easiest way to kill a Vanguard is to kite them and stay outside the range of flameburst. Even sorcs can kite PTs and Vangurds, but most people just stand there or try to run nonstop without doing dmg.

[mrekxxx]

Greeting's SWTOR Community, I've come to these forums cause I am concerned that BW is over looking Vanguard's need for an escape mech. Before I go into details id like to provide my background, I am a career republic player, a pre-launch vanguard VR 100, 2650+ rating, and over 75 days played. Ive also leveled and played extensively a Sabotage Gunslinger aswell as a Focus Guardian. From my pvp experience ive come to the conclusion that Vanguard's are the easiest to down and have no way of surviving a bad situation. Bioware has announced they are looking at ways to give commando's an escape mech and its my hope that Vanguard's are not over looked.

 

Some examples of what I mean, If a Jedi knight leaps to a Vanguard we have to drop whatever we are doing and fight the jedi knight or we are dead (VG slow is worse then JK's, as well VG's have no knockback, mez, vanish, hostile/friendly leaps, even a Commando which BW seems concerned about can knock people back into the pit or whatever. Ranged classes are a major bane for VG's now since we cant pull Gunslingers, If we pull a commando who opens on us from range they just use their knockback, and Sage's have their knockback and sprint off cooldown twice before a VG pull comes off of cooldown.

 

Now i dont feel like commenting on every classes ability to escape a bad situation but I can comment on the Classes ive played.

 

MORE EDITING INCOMING

 

lol nice troll, how is possible unskilled players have rating over 2000??

[HeIIbat]

I agree with the OP. Ya, Vanguards can burst, but we have the worse defensive cooldowns in the game. Assasins, Muraders, and Jugs can all burst just as much as Vanguards and PTS, yet they have all forms of defensive cooldowns available to them. Furthermore, they also have a better gap closer than Vanguards and PTs via force run or murlitple leaps. Vanguards and PTs are stuck with a 45 second leash, yet we were forced to play melee. You guys are complaining about Rail and Bolt, yet every other class has an ability that will hit just as hard if not harder. Smash, mal, annhilate, ravage, force screm, vicious throw. Heck, even deathfield gets close to hitting as hard as rail shot. Most the dmg Vanguards and PTs do come from flameburst, not rail, which is an instant cast ability with no cooldown. The easiest way to kill a Vanguard is to kite them and stay outside the range of flameburst. Even sorcs can kite PTs and Vangurds, but most people just stand there or try to run nonstop without doing dmg.

Force scream hit same hard as Rail shot ? WTH you smoking bro. And ravage dont hit hard, its just 3 hits over time (and 3rd most powerful almost always canceled bcos target run away). Vicious throw 10m and 30% hp on target, and still bit less than Rail Shot.And we dont have 90% armor penetration on our skills, neither dont have spammable true dmg attack (flameburst). And about defensive cooldowns, Rage spec jugger have 3 min CD on Saber ward, while you have 2 on Energy Shield. What other defensive cooldown you talk about ? Edited January 5, 2013 by HeIIbat

[LordExozone]

Force scream hit same hard as Rail shot ? WTH you smoking bro. And ravage dont hit hard, its just 3 hits over time (and 3rd most powerful almost always canceled bcos target run away). Vicious throw 10m and 30% hp on target, and still bit less than Rail Shot.And we dont have 90% armor penetration on our skills, neither dont have spammable true dmg attack (flameburst). And about defensive cooldowns, Rage spec jugger have 3 min CD on Saber ward, while you have 2 on Energy Shield. What other defensive cooldown you talk about ?

 

A good railshot crit does just over 5k damage. Vicious throw beats that, Ravage's final hit beats that, Force Scream can beat that. If you think not, you have never faced a good Carnage Marauder.

 

The truth is, pyrotech does fantastic damage, but not overly so compared to certain other single damage specs (most notably carnage marauders, full dps sins and MM snipers.) the delayed burst does make for the best healer-killer. The cost of this is indeed the worst survivability of any spec in the game bar lethality snipers.

 

The other two powertech trees are only slightly better of. Shieldtech is the worst tree for pvp of all the tank classes, the tree lacking any kind of extra CC, snares or mobility save for the charge and a strong reliance on the shield generator which significantly reduces the dps output while being very ineffective at protecting the powertech in a pvp environment. Again, this spec has no escape tools at all.

 

The AP tree has the only potential escape ability in the form of Hydraulic Overrides. This provides a 30% runspeed buff and snare/root/pull/knockback immunity. Unfortunately it does not stack with sprint for better out of combat speed, and most other classes have a way to catch up with either charge or a superior speedburst.

 

Personally I do think the class could use a baseline escape tool, maybe a jetpack jump that builds max heat and prevents heat from diminishing for x seconds to ensure it can only be used to escape unfavourable odds.

[TheJackalistaken]

LOL op just LOL. I mean cmon we have the best 3 second burst in the game and are nearly impossible to shut down. We have no cast times, and our can do good damage at a variety of ranges. If we had the defensive's of a mara we would be worse than operatives were when they were three shotting people, the only reason that we are vaguely balanced is because of our lack of defensives.