power or strength augments?

[Darth-Rammstein]

All you rage jugg/mara out there do you stack power or strength in your augments? I've heard main stat doesn't have DR but stats like power do yet I still see people use the pwr augments...Is one better than the other or is it just personal choice? Edited December 28, 2012 by Darth-Rammstein

[Kaane]

I stick to Str Augments. Extra crit is nice when I need to respec to Carnage.

[HoboWithAStick]

Power, always power even if you have 9% to main stat.

[Darkemace]

For me it didn't really matter, there was only a 1 point difference between them.

[MantorokTwelve]

You get a tiny bit less bonus damage from strength than you do from straight power, but the crit bonus you get from strength doesn't have diminishing returns at all. Main stat and power don't have DR, at least not anything like crit, surge, alacrity, defense, absorb, or shield do.

 

It really depends on your spec. If you need a high crit chance and don't get many autocrits from your build, like annihilation marauder, then I would say go strength all the way.

[Meleemadness]

Uh, i thought STR too but i understand there is a diminishing return on STR but there is no DR for power.....so you might need to find the break point for STR and then go power.

[MantorokTwelve]

Here is the DR graph from MMO mechanics. Crit rating gets hit pretty hard at around 350 (the soft cap), while main stat for crit maintains a fairly steady curve. I unfortunately can't find a graph with power on it, but know that you will get more raw base damage out of it, but less crit. Like I said, stacking power is good for autocrit heavy builds.

[Thundergulch]

It really depends on your spec. If you need a high crit chance and don't get many autocrits from your build, like annihilation marauder, then I would say go strength all the way.

 

Annihilation Spec should be going for all power augments.

BUT this is highly dependent on what types of mods and enhancements a person has on their toon.

right now I'm at about 1040 bonus dmg with about 1200-ish power.

35% crit

76% crit multipier

about 1900 str iirc

[MantorokTwelve]

I would say go strength as anni so you can get more of those pretty bleed crits that get 30% surge bonus from your tree. Double damage on your crits is quite nice.

[Thundergulch]

This is my current spec, minus 1 other 63 piece, I'm at work right now and can't remember which one I added. :/

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/6cefa315-dc3b-4b6e-9960-35883a8d4b35

 

On the Ops dummy I can hold 1950 dps over a 5 minute fight with all buffs except the Operative buff.

I've went with all STR augments and my dps dropped.

In my opinion,Annihilation Marauders are one of the only classes where you want power augments over the STR.

Maybe it's how I play mine? who knows, as I've seen lots of Marauders with STR augments,but I've spent millions swapping out mods and augments to get the highest sustained parse that I can,and it's with power augments.

[MantorokTwelve]

I looked up the top marauder DPS on TORParse, at number 8 is a sentinel in the watchman (annihilation) spec, with full strength augments on Ask Mr Robot.

[Thundergulch]

That's the Fabricator fight, I can pull 4k+ dps on that fight easy lol,but I get what you're saying.

But like I said, this build works for ME, when I get more money, I'll try it again with STR augments and run a before and after parse.

[MantorokTwelve]

Yeah, my point was looking at overall top DPS for all raids.

[Omophorus]

Power, always power even if you have 9% to main stat.

 

No.

 

Wrong wrong wrong.

 

Main stat for everyone (except certain healing classes) whether or not you have a talent to boost your main stat.

 

Assassin and Marauder will be the first 2 ACs to switch over (probably within the next year and 2-3 gear tiers at most), but no one can get a sufficient main stat budget when geared correctly for Power to eclipse main stat.

 

The magic tipping point is when the marginal increase in Bonus Damage from Power exceeds the marginal gain in crit rate from main stat.

 

Power will always add more bonus damage than main stat, but given how much Power people are currently running in their gear, the marginal gain from each additional point is minuscule. The marginal gain to crit rate from main stat is also minuscule, but at current stat budgets it tends to be a factor of 2-10 better.

 

tl;dr version - Strength is better for Marauder or Juggernaut. Significantly better for Jugg if taking the +6% STR talent, and only slightly better for Sith Warriors otherwise.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Omophorus

[criminalheretic]

I could be butchering this, so bear with me. As I understand there is no DR on MAIN or PWR. They give a flat increase to bonus dmg to the tune of

 

MAIN = .20 per point (plus something like .007 crit per point)

PWR = .23 per point

 

So 1500 MAIN = 300 Bonus Damage

1500 PWR = 345 Bonus Damage

 

Factor in a 9% increase to MAIN stat, and the 5% boost from Sorc/Sage Buff 1500 main becomes 1710 main (not counting stims because they add a flat amount, instead of a %).

 

1710 MAIN = 342 Bonus Damage + 10 crit%

1500 PWR = 345 Bonus Damage

 

Obviously you're never choosing ONLY one or the other, but which to prioritize.

 

The question(s) really becomes:

 

A. Do you have a talent tree that buffs your main stat (Sins and Maras do not)?

B. Is crit important to you at all (or does your tree give you auto-crit procs)?

C. Is flexibility important to you at all?

 

Rage specd Mara with no main stat buff, and auto crit on smash = PWR all day long.

 

Carnage? May want to look at stacking MAIN stat 1st, then backfill with PWR.

 

Sniper? Main stat all day long.

 

At least that is the way I understand it, but I could be totally wrong

Edited December 28, 2012 by criminalheretic

[MantorokTwelve]

Looking at the leaderboards on tor parse, I'm seeing nothing but main stat augments, of all kinds of classes.

[Omophorus]

Looking at the leaderboards on tor parse, I'm seeing nothing but main stat augments, of all kinds of classes.

 

Nothing about a leaderboard in and of itself proves anything.

 

However, the people at the top are more likely to understand the math and gear properly, so it is worth noting what people are wearing when considering your own gear. it is not, however, a definitive guideline.

[MantorokTwelve]

Nothing about a leaderboard in and of itself proves anything.

 

However, the people at the top are more likely to understand the math and gear properly, so it is worth noting what people are wearing when considering your own gear. it is not, however, a definitive guideline.

 

I'm just saying that a quick glance over the top DPS shows a consensus, and if there's one thing I've learned, it's that consensuses are rare when it comes to gearing, and this is a general consensus across classes and specs. The best assassin I've seen on my server uses all willpower, and assassins don't get s**t from their skill tree in bonus stats.

[Petnil]

i would go main stat. if you get high on crit shift mods and augments. if at any point strenght is better than power, the first thing you do is stack all the power you can, then lower you critrate if it´s too high by switching crit to power. Now i dont know for sure that´s the way it goes, i just go with what sounds logic to me, but most times the thing that sounds logic is the best way to go.

[Thundergulch]

No.

 

Wrong wrong wrong.

 

Main stat for everyone (except certain healing classes) whether or not you have a talent to boost your main stat.

 

Assassin and Marauder will be the first 2 ACs to switch over (probably within the next year and 2-3 gear tiers at most), but no one can get a sufficient main stat budget when geared correctly for Power to eclipse main stat.

 

The magic tipping point is when the marginal increase in Bonus Damage from Power exceeds the marginal gain in crit rate from main stat.

 

Power will always add more bonus damage than main stat, but given how much Power people are currently running in their gear, the marginal gain from each additional point is minuscule. The marginal gain to crit rate from main stat is also minuscule, but at current stat budgets it tends to be a factor of 2-10 better.

 

tl;dr version - Strength is better for Marauder or Juggernaut. Significantly better for Jugg if taking the +6% STR talent, and only slightly better for Sith Warriors otherwise.

 

Ok, Here is my current spec as Annihilation and all PWR augments

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/6cefa315-dc3b-4b6e-9960-35883a8d4b35

 

Now when I swap out for all STR, my STR goes to 2149,but I lose 5.3 damage down to 1183.1 Primary.

Bonus dmg drops by about 5 points.

Crit chance goes up about 0.6%

And Power drops to 939.

 

Now, I didn't parse the difference,because I just did it on AskMrRobot to see the changes...

You're saying that this is the way to go? I know I've tried this a few months ago, and my parse was lower.

I'm not saying you're totally wrong, I just don't see how going all STR augments for me will parse higher.

Unless my abilities hit harder, that's the only thing that could make a difference that I see.

What are your thoughts Omophouros?

[planet_J]

Annihilation/Watchman need to spec Strength first, it's less crit you need to itemize into your gear and you can now spend those spots stacking power too...

 

Strength + Power > Power + Crit

 

Think about it, you get crit for FREE...that means you can put more power augments into your gear and keep your crit closer to what it was before...that means you are getting MOAR DAMAGE!!!

 

Also, crit from strength is a linear progression without DR...so it is never unbeneifical to stack strength for the crit bonus.

 

If your crit unbuffed is around 32-35%...start stacking power mods and leave crit alone...if your surge is between 74-76% leave surge alone, start stacking power mods there too, or accuracy if your accuracy is less than 100%

 

My republic main is a JK Sentinel Watchman, and I am running around with 35% Crit and 76% surge and the rest is stacked in power...AFTER...I put strength everywhere I could...

[Omophorus]

Ok, Here is my current spec as Annihilation and all PWR augments

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/6cefa315-dc3b-4b6e-9960-35883a8d4b35

 

Now when I swap out for all STR, my STR goes to 2149,but I lose 5.3 damage down to 1183.1 Primary.

Bonus dmg drops by about 5 points.

Crit chance goes up about 0.6%

And Power drops to 939.

 

Now, I didn't parse the difference,because I just did it on AskMrRobot to see the changes...

You're saying that this is the way to go? I know I've tried this a few months ago, and my parse was lower.

I'm not saying you're totally wrong, I just don't see how going all STR augments for me will parse higher.

Unless my abilities hit harder, that's the only thing that could make a difference that I see.

What are your thoughts Omophouros?

 

By 61/63 tier gear, the difference is less than experimental error (the normal difference between parses is bigger than the difference between augments), though at lower gear levels Strength has an undeniable advantage.

 

At least until the cap raise, a person augmenting for the first time should go Strength as there is not yet a situation for Carnage or Annihilation where Strength is *worse*.

 

Once BH+ geared the difference is minimal, and it's not cost-effective to switch, regardless of one's current augments.

 

You're NEVER going to see a significant parsed difference between augments due to natural deviation between parses and the minor difference to start with, but mathematically it's best to recommend Strength to new players.

 

As such, people should continue to use Strength augments as it's not clearly better or cost effective to switch later. After the cap raise, depending on what BW does with it, Power may become unambiguously better once geared, and for cost-no-object min/maxers, a switch will be in order. For the average player, existing augments will be the best choice, and for new players the best option is still TBD.