JBFett Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) Who really were "The Bad Guys" in the Clone Wars? I raise this question simply to spark hypothetical political, and philosophical discussion. I'll start, with a brief history on the Cofederacy of Independent Systems (CIS). From Wookieepedia: "In the decades prior to the Clone Wars, the Republic was seen by many as a failing government, plagued by corruption and mindless bureaucracy that stifled the voices of many constituents represented in the Galactic Senate. Secession grew during the period following the Invasion of Naboo, and the commerce guilds and trading corporations became disillusioned with the Republic after the law was passed to place taxation on all trade routes to outlying star systems. Into this critical situation stepped Count Dooku, a former Jedi Master who had become disillusioned with the Republic and the Jedi Order that served it. This charismatic figure stirred up anti-Republic sentiments on many worlds, paving the way for a rebellion against the government. A loose affiliation of separatists was formed, with Dooku at their head, pushing for a new government to take the place of the stagnant Republic. Eventually, this Separatist movement established itself as the Confederacy of Independent Systems, a body formally opposed to the Galactic Republic. The members of the CIS included the Corporate Alliance, Trade Federation, Commerce Guild, InterGalactic Banking Clan and the Techno Union. Although the Republic recognized that many of its member worlds were in rebellion, it refused to formally acknowledge the existence of the CIS as their common government, deeming that doing so would legitimize it." This secessionist movement draws many parallels to what was happening in real world America during the mid-late 1700's. The CIS, similar to America, felt oppressed by the Republic's (Britain) excessive taxation, and as the famous rallying cry goes, "No Taxation, without Representation." Was George Lucas really trying to mask anti-American sentiments in his movies? To draw further parallels I will relate Star Wars Character's to real historical persons. Count Dooku: Thomas Jefferson; General Grievous: George Washington; Nute Gunray: John Adams. I will now leave the topic open to discussion. Edited December 22, 2012 by JBFett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterMe Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) I don't think George Lucas was trying to get political with what he said. Not at all. As for the CIS, I'm sure many of those worlds and systems were perfectly justified in succeeding from the Republic. I believe they were likely in the right in that since. BUT there is a big problem with the CIS: the Sith. The Sith turned the CIS movement into an aggresive/take-over-the-galaxy effort. If the CIS had won, it would've been just as bad as the Republic winning (with the Empire arising due to Sidious). Granted I'm not POSITIVE about all that I just said. I'm working off of memory here. But I believe that's how it works out. If I were to fight for the Republic or CIS.... hmmmm. Republic. I would rather fight along-side Clones then Droids. Also: the CIS commanders are pretty ruthless. In the end the only good thing about the CIS is how it was started and who it was getting funded by: people with freedom in mind. Eventually it was lead by bad people (Sith) and was heading in a bad direction. That's one reason I like people like Lux from TCW. His character kinda shows how both sides are right in a way. EDIT: btw interesting thread. This is definately a neat topic. Edited December 22, 2012 by MasterMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterMe Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Who really were "The Bad Guys" in the Clone Wars? I raise this question simply to spark hypothetical political, and philosophical discussion. I'll start, with a brief history on the Cofederacy of Independent Systems (CIS). From Wookieepedia: "In the decades prior to the Clone Wars, the Republic was seen by many as a failing government, plagued by corruption and mindless bureaucracy that stifled the voices of many constituents represented in the Galactic Senate. Secession grew during the period following the Invasion of Naboo, and the commerce guilds and trading corporations became disillusioned with the Republic after the law was passed to place taxation on all trade routes to outlying star systems. Into this critical situation stepped Count Dooku, a former Jedi Master who had become disillusioned with the Republic and the Jedi Order that served it. This charismatic figure stirred up anti-Republic sentiments on many worlds, paving the way for a rebellion against the government. A loose affiliation of separatists was formed, with Dooku at their head, pushing for a new government to take the place of the stagnant Republic. Eventually, this Separatist movement established itself as the Confederacy of Independent Systems, a body formally opposed to the Galactic Republic. The members of the CIS included the Corporate Alliance, Trade Federation, Commerce Guild, InterGalactic Banking Clan and the Techno Union. Although the Republic recognized that many of its member worlds were in rebellion, it refused to formally acknowledge the existence of the CIS as their common government, deeming that doing so would legitimize it." This secessionist movement draws many parallels to what was happening in real world America during the mid-late 1700's. The CIS, similar to America, felt oppressed by the Republic's (Britain) excessive taxation, and as the famous rallying cry goes, "No Taxation, without Representation." Was George Lucas really trying to mask anti-American sentiments in his movies? To draw further parallels I will relate Star Wars Character's to real historical persons. Count Dooku: Thomas Jefferson; General Grievous: George Washington; Nute Gunray: John Adams. I will now leave the topic open to discussion. Woah! Those are some odd character comparisons without a doubt! Can't say I agree with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnoverla-page Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 you do have a point, but i think the people of the cis were good, but the leaders weren't eg count dooku or the banking clan, also being the ones that started the war. but although the republic sent is corrupt i would not call them the bad guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradTheImpaler Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) Considering the Confederacy was formed by a Sith plot, they were hardly "good guys", but then neither was the Republic. I think it's best summed up by the opening crawl in Episode 3. "There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere." The character comparisons are just crazy, but there do seem to be paternalistic or aristocratic, even monarchist undertones. In a deleted scene from Episode 2, Padme, a former Queen (though elected), goes as far as to say "Popular rule is not democracy, Ani. It gives the people what they want, not what they need." That said, the CIS was motivated by greed rather than freedom from a corrupt Republic---the Confederacy's members had after all had a hand in any corruption that existed in the Republic. I have no doubt that genuinely good people existed in the Confederacy, but the same could be said for even the most corrupt of societies. Edited December 22, 2012 by BradTheImpaler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterMe Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Considering the Confederacy was formed by a Sith plot, they were hardly "good guys", but then neither was the Republic. I think it's best summed up by the opening crawl in Episode 3. "There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere." The character comparisons are just crazy, but there do seem to be paternalistic or aristocratic, even monarchist undertones. In a deleted scene from Episode 2, Padme, a former Queen (though elected), goes as far as to say "Popular rule is not democracy, Ani. It gives the people what they want, not what they need." That said, the CIS was motivated by greed rather than freedom from a corrupt Republic---the Confederacy's members had after all had a hand in any corruption that existed in the Republic. I have no doubt that genuinely good people existed in the Confederacy, but the same could be said for even the most corrupt of societies. I think it was the CIS's leaders who were corrrupt. Not it's citizens. Their rebelios movement was started in a good way I think. It was then corrupted and overtaken by Sith. Or perhaps the Sith were behind it all along? I'm not totally sure about it. Regardless, the citizens were justified in their actions (imo). LOL did Padme actually say that? She's a retard! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe her definition of a democracy is a bit off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradTheImpaler Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I think it was the CIS's leaders who were corrrupt. Not it's citizens. Their rebelios movement was started in a good way I think. It was then corrupted and overtaken by Sith. Or perhaps the Sith were behind it all along? I'm not totally sure about it. Regardless, the citizens were justified in their actions (imo). LOL did Padme actually say that? She's a retard! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe her definition of a democracy is a bit off. Yes, I know you said that. But yes, the Sith were behind it. Sidious was behind the Naboo crisis, as you must know, and Dooku explains in Episode 2 how Gunray went to him for help after this. Disgruntled as they were, it was Sith promises that emboldened these Separatists to make bold demands and to actually secede, with Dooku as the public leader (and Sidious as the true leader) who also orchestrated the meeting in which the various groups signed on to the Separatist cause along with the Trade Federation (hell it was Dooku's treaty they signed to form the Confederacy). Certainly not everyone who opposed the Republic was in league with the Sith (there were others like the Nebula Front), but the Confederacy as a body was itself orchestrated by the Sith, namely Sidious who needed something to justify creating a military and amassing emergency powers. As for Padme, yeah, just a 'bit' off. To quote Chief Wiggum, "Why are the pretty ones always insane?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thylbanus Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I believe that the whole thing is showing there are really no "good guys" when war becomes protracted. "War's a funny thing. It makes you do things you never thought you'd do." ―Saul Karath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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