SWTOR's Resolve System or WoW's CC DR's?

[Maanji]

WoW's answer to chain Fears, Polymorphs, Stuns, Roots (and any of the billions of effects that made you lose control of your character) was adding DR's in PvP.

 

Effects within the same category share diminishing returns. When a spell with diminishing returns is used against a target in PvP, the first effect has full duration. If the same category of spell (e.g. slowing) is used on that target within 15 seconds, that spell's duration is reduced by 50%. On the third use, the duration is reduced by 75%. After this, the target is immune from all spells in that category for the next 15 seconds.

 

Spells must be used on the same target within 15 seconds of the *end* of the duration in order to be diminished. In other words, if a target hasn't had a slowing spell active on them for more than 15 seconds, this category of diminishing returns will be reset on the target, and the next slowing spell will have full effect.

Kinda sorta maybe like the resolve bar, minus "OMG WHY AM I STUNNED" moments. But it worked the same every time. There was no questioning it unless you didn't know your stuff and followed up with a CC on the same category. The first CC would be full duration, then a 50% duration reduction, 75% duration reduction, and then you became immune for 15 seconds following the end of the effect. Even though my Rogue QQ'd 1000 tears, I learned not to rely so much on CC. More importantly, I also learned WHEN to CC.

 

If you didn't click the link above, there are 11 shared categories of CC DR's in WoW and a bunch that have only their own DR. I watch as an enemy grabs the Huttball and is immediately white barred. But there are times I swear that bar is full and falling... and get CC'd in the fire or whatever.

 

Could this be a viable way to control crowd control? What about knock-backs? Or friendly/enemy pulls? What about Dirty Kicking female chars????

 

Now, on to PvP's next biggest problem: can i pls haz my adrenals.... OR let me craft some damn WZ Med-pacs

[cashogy]

logical diminishing returns would be a great change for resolve

[Xinika]

logical diminishing returns would be a great change for resolve

 

Seconded.

[Threnos]

I like that idea. The resolve system is obviously terrible as it stands. Don't know many people who actually think it works. Too complicated and too weighted. I'm all for something even simpler though than a DR system. LOTRO had a three second stun immunity after coming out of a stun. Simple. Reliable. Worked. I'd be happy to see something along those lines. Maybe two stuns fill your bar and that's it. No weighting. No DR. No nothing. Just a simple, flat growth and then stun immunity.

 

Truth is, anything would be better!

[MiaRB]

right because there are no CC QQ threads over on wow's forums, lol. doesnt really matter what system is used or even if current resolve system is tweaked,,, still going to have the same old, "boohooo i got CCed to death when i was trying to 1v3".

[Xerain]

logical diminishing returns would be a great change for resolve

 

You want WoW's straight up DR system. If I remember right... You could prema CC someone through a whole match and kill the other person with ease. And by a whole match... For minutes at a time.

[cashogy]

You want WoW's straight up DR system. If I remember right... You could prema CC someone through a whole match and kill the other person with ease. And by a whole match... For minutes at a time.

 

did i say i wanted WoWs DR system?

 

nope. you quoted me, so you should be able to see what i wrote.

 

"logical diminishing returns would be a great change for resolve"

 

are having 11 different archtypes of CC logical? or making them all on different DR timers logical? ffs xerain, you are the biggest wannabe troll on the forums. stick to mara threads son

Edited December 22, 2012 by cashogy

[Threnos]

People will always complain about being stunned to death, but when you can be stunned for 12 seconds straight, there's something broken. I'd be happy to go down fighting 3 v 1, but it's frustrating to everyone to get stunned to death.

[Xerain]

did i say i wanted WoWs DR system?

 

nope. you quoted me, so you should be able to see what i wrote.

 

"logical diminishing returns would be a great change for resolve"

 

are having 11 different archtypes of CC logical? or making them all on different DR timers logical? ffs xerain, you are the biggest wannabe troll on the forums. stick to mara threads son

 

Doesn't matter, the same exact thing is going to happen you bad.

 

1 of 3 people are going to CC you and all three of them are going to kill you in that time. Stop crying about group coordination and play. That's how it goes. Be happy you're not kept out of the game the entire match because you're just standing there CC'ed and watching ok.

[Xerain]

People will always complain about being stunned to death, but when you can be stunned for 12 seconds straight, there's something broken. I'd be happy to go down fighting 3 v 1, but it's frustrating to everyone to get stunned to death.

 

And how often is not being stunned going to save you from 2 pt's and a sniper this is both with and without team support because the stun isn't going to matter if you have guard on you or not the three can still blow you up through that.

[cashogy]

Doesn't matter, the same exact thing is going to happen you bad.

 

1 of 3 people are going to CC you and all three of them are going to kill you in that time. Stop crying about group coordination and play. That's how it goes. Be happy you're not kept out of the game the entire match because you're just standing there CC'ed and watching ok.

 

this is one of the funniest things ive read in a long time. you attempted to put words in my mouth, and when corrected you:

 

1. call me bad

2. tell me to "stop crying about group coordination and play", which i again did not mention even remotely in my post.

3. claim that you have spent entire matches CC'd

 

a very nice 3 point play of fail.

 

 

 

anyways, resolve is a joke. it was never a good solution, and the most recent changes only exacerbated the problems. the situation you claim to be the problem (3 people focusing the same CC'd target) is never going to be solved. if a group wants to strategically use its CC and focus fire, that is their prerogative.

 

bioware has no clear intention of changing it. so prolonged thinking on its potential solution is wasted

Edited December 22, 2012 by cashogy

[Xerain]

this is one of the funniest things ive read in a long time. you attempted to put words in my mouth, and when corrected you. you:

 

1. call me bad

 

You are bad though. All I see from you on these forums is un-constructive crying and the likes.

 

2. tell me to "stop crying about group coordination and play", which i again did not mention even remotely in my post.

 

Yes because this is where all the crying comes from with resolve. In a 1v1 situation, who is killing you or who can CC you and damage you from full hp to dead?

 

1. No one.

2. No one.

 

3. claim that you have spent entire matches CC'd

 

I never claimed i've spent entire matches CC'ed in this game. TY sir.

 

a very nice 3 point play of fail.

 

 

 

anyways, resolve is a joke. it was never a good solution, and the most recent changes only exacerbated the problems. the situation you claim to be the problem (3 people focusing the same CC'd target) is never going to be solved. if a group wants to strategically use its CC and focus fire, that is their prerogative.

 

bioware has no clear intention of changing it. so prolonged thinking on its potential solution is wasted

 

Resolve is much better in it's current state than DR's ever are or were in WoW. Previous resolve was a little dumb that I could be CC'ed for 5 seconds total, be full resolved because of it, get out and kill someone with one of my burst rotations. I loved being full resolved it meant I was garanteed a kill.

 

What needs to be changed? Effective group coordination is still going to be the same and focus fire is still going to be painful.

 

Oh btw, most mez's in this game can be cleansed... Whirlwind> Sorc. Flashbang> Op/Merc... others can too but i'll let you learn which ones can be cleansed by what healer types on your own. It'll help you a lot.

[cashogy]

Oh btw, most mez's in this game can be cleansed... Whirlwind> Sorc. Flashbang> Op/Merc... others can too but i'll let you learn which ones can be cleansed by what healer types on your own. It'll help you a lot.

 

aware of this.

 

and i am the King of Bads sir, not just some random baddie. you best show some respect son

[madtycoon]

right because there are no CC QQ threads over on wow's forums, lol. doesnt really matter what system is used or even if current resolve system is tweaked,,, still going to have the same old, "boohooo i got CCed to death when i was trying to 1v3".

 

I think most the complains about CC in WoW is stuff not breaking because of too high of damage thresholds (fixed last hotfix) and the trend of unpreventable/instant CC from what used to be casted CC (I.E. Blood Fear)

 

But yeah the same thing happens there when you try and 1v3 there like here, heh

 

A DR system would be better, but what do you do about things like knockbacks. DR knockbacks only knockback people half as far? Maybe just don't have knockbacks DR?

 

You would have to be careful clumping things up in different categories. Things like mezs should probably only DR with their same type, like awe DRs with other awes, but not with concussion missle? If all mezs shared diminishing returns, this system would destroy the CC healer/kill dps strategy, because the biggest CC chain you could land on a healer with mezs would be 12 seconds. Not enough time, I don't think. In wow things like polymorph and sap DR, but both are technically spammable. There are no spammable CCs in this game except sap.

 

Roots would be another issue. Leap roots would probably DR with each other, which would be fine sorta because knights could still slow their target. Rooting an egress sage as melee would be pretty much impossible though, which could cause problems. Melee also couldn't peel as easily with their roots. Bad thing, because melee are seriously lacking the tools already to peel well.

 

And what about ranged roots? 5 seconds on a ranged root that now DRs, can be cleansed and still breaks on damage. DR'd goes down to 2.5 seconds. Thats not much time to get away. They would probably have to bump controlled/knockback roots up to 8 seconds then 4 seconds then immune and make sage knockback root force dispellable. And what about sever force? what does that DR with?

[kaya]

I hated WoW's DR's it just limited options

It made some comps unplayable while others could CC you for a week because of some arbitrary decision that two cc's were or weren't in the same school.

Resolve is a bit rubbish but a bit of tweaking to lower the number of CC's needed to fill a resolve bar and the time it takes for a full resolve bar to empty will fix most problems (getting rid of bubble stun will fix the rest).

[Jenzali]

The issue I have with diminishing returns is that it's not as intuitive as the resolve system. PvPing in WoW practically required installing numerous addons to keep track of all the separate diminishing return timers on various abilities. That simply would not work in SWTOR, since addons are not supported. And I like the simplicity of "white-barred = immune to CC, otherwise you can be CC'ed".

[rlamela]

Resolve is much better in it's current state than DR's ever are or were in WoW. Previous resolve was a little dumb that I could be CC'ed for 5 seconds total, be full resolved because of it, get out and kill someone with one of my burst rotations. I loved being full resolved it meant I was garanteed a kill.

 

What needs to be changed? Effective group coordination is still going to be the same and focus fire is still going to be painful.

 

Oh btw, most mez's in this game can be cleansed... Whirlwind> Sorc. Flashbang> Op/Merc... others can too but i'll let you learn which ones can be cleansed by what healer types on your own. It'll help you a lot.

 

LOL Xerain pretty sure you are one of the baby melees who can't handle bubble stun. You have no place in this discussion since you have cried for a nerf to bubble stun. Have a good day

 

Jenna'syde

[foxmob]

And how often is not being stunned going to save you from 2 pt's and a sniper this is both with and without team support because the stun isn't going to matter if you have guard on you or not the three can still blow you up through that.

 

ah. but that's the point. you still get to press buttons and use abils. you can't even pop a dcd while stunned. so yes. I do think it would be much better to go down 3v1 w/o the stun. pls don't translate that into my saying get rid of all stuns. I'm just saying that there's a massive psychological difference even though you'd only live maybe a second or two longer (6s longer if you're a mara! lol). losing w/o being able to play vs. losing while playing. that's the psychological dif.

 

regarding the DR thing, and what I like about resolve, is that it should apply to the target rather than the caster. If you constantly CC my healer, then that CC should be less and less effective on said healer. I don't think kb's or pulls should ever be affected by DR simply because, as someone already stated, they have CDs that are reasonable (30-60s). I'm all for counting roots. if the same guy keeps rooting the same guy over and over again, then I'd like to see a resetting DR on that (once you hit zero effectiveness with one cast, the effect resets to full). this is all, however, personal preference and what I think is fair. I don't even know how to begin to try to sway ppl's opinions on it without a healthy bribe, and my pockets aren't nearly as deep as Wal Mart de Mexico's.

Edited December 22, 2012 by foxmob

[Maanji]

I just never heard anyone mention how WoW adjusted CC. And I always see people typing crap about a broken resolve bar.

 

I was just trying to think of ideas. That's why I never used to post here much; it's like trying to have a conversation with someone who doesn't listen... and just waits to talk

 

But good points were made through some interesting ideas/opinions on Resolve vs DR's.

[Malkavier]

Heh, nobody should bring up WoW 1v3, when it was possible to be a geared Blood Tank DK and do 1v6 and win.

 

There was a good reason why the two best 3v3 comps in the game for about an entire year were Mage Priest Warlock and Blood DK, Blood DK, and Resto Shaman.

 

They don't need to do anything more to fix it, than to reduce the one CD breaker most classes get to 30s from the 2 minute abomination it currently is.

 

It's quite obvious the PvP designers have absolutely no experience whatsoever designing PvP in a multiplayer game.

[Karkais]

Id say the problem is not in the resolve system itself. The resolve bar should just stay full (offering protection from stuns) for longer than it does now.

[AdrianDmitruk]

Also, if you die, your resolve should not decay until you leave the respawn area.

 

Getting stunlocked to death happens. But getting stunlocked to death and then watching your resolve empty behind a full door where it does you no good whatsoever is abomination.

[madtycoon]

Heh, nobody should bring up WoW 1v3, when it was possible to be a geared Blood Tank DK and do 1v6 and win.

 

There was a good reason why the two best 3v3 comps in the game for about an entire year were Mage Priest Warlock and Blood DK, Blood DK, and Resto Shaman.

 

Pretty sure blood dk/blood dk/resto shaman never was any good. And when was mage priest lock the best comp?

 

Blood DK is only going to 3v1 really undergeared people, because they can't dps through their self heals.

[wwkingms]

the logical answer is resolve bar BEING the DR

 

example: resolve bar 50% full.... cc time is cut by 50%

 

resolve bar 75% full.. cc time is cut 75%

 

 

resolve bar is full... IMMUNE

 

DERP BIOWARE

[Rhyn]

Doesn't matter, the same exact thing is going to happen you bad.

 

1 of 3 people are going to CC you and all three of them are going to kill you in that time. Stop crying about group coordination and play. That's how it goes. Be happy you're not kept out of the game the entire match because you're just standing there CC'ed and watching ok.

 

I believe the thread is about resolve and stuns. The system sucks right now and 1 reason is one cc break every 2 minutes. This is a problem that was really made worse during 1.4. WoW's current diminishing return system is far better than what we have here right now and yes i would prefer something than the crap we have right now.