Remove the Interrupt from Force Charge

[NoTomorrow]

Just in case I haven't already commented on this thread....

 

NO.

This is why you are my favorite poster always with a sense of humor.

[Thoop]

there are alot of bad idea's on these forums, this one is got to be one of the worst

[Arlanon]

if a mara jumps at you, snare and knockback

 

if a jug jumps at you, wait 4 seconds, snare and knockback

 

l2p before crying for nerfs

[IlynPayne]

if a mara jumps at you, snare and knockback

 

if a jug jumps at you, wait 4 seconds, snare and knockback

 

l2p before crying for nerfs

 

ye

 

because leap is the only trick those classes have up their sleeves ....

 

big fat /facepalm .... no wonder class balancing in this game is as **** as its now, reading some of the posts here just shows that quite a lot players are dumb as **** aswell. people get the development team they deserve ...

[Boyana]

Instead of nerfing something to the ground, this approach would be much better. I actually always thought this is a good idea but never wanted to say it out loud because of 'I-know-it-all-because-I-have-lvl-30-merc" people..

[Boyana]

if a mara jumps at you, snare and knockback

 

if a jug jumps at you, wait 4 seconds, snare and knockback

 

l2p before crying for nerfs

 

 

You should L2U something else than 'L2P', not only because it made you look dumb, it is also because you are the one who should learn. You should also L2R.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Boyana
make-made

[LarryRow]

whirlwind is a 3s cast for me before alacrity. i wish it was 2 seconds.

 

Do you have negative alacrity? It's a baseline 2s cast for me.

[Hairyzac]

Do you have negative alacrity? It's a baseline 2s cast for me.

 

Not sure why I said this, you would be correct.

[Atramar]

Want good ranged dps and being immune to jumps/leaps/pulls? roll a sniper/slinger.

to many buttons/can't bear cover mechanics as sniper/slinger? Suffer from smashes.

 

Viola?

[MimicUnleashed]

I play a Guardian, and while I see this as being an issue for ranged (I have a Merc) I also understand that it's done this way for a reason. I wont say a good reason, but still a reason. Warrior/Knight game balance is tied to charge/leap to do everything and the kitchen sink. Because options to spread out those abilities they give or trigger don't exist. Consider all the abilities tied to a Merc's Tracer Missile. Armor reduction, possible Rapid Shot refresh (with more damage) it builds up shield, it makes your Rail Shot trigger and they take more umph from it, ect. Everything and the kitchen sink is thrown into that 1 ability, making you play around it, the same for the charge/leap.

 

I will agree removing the interrupt may do some good for the ranged people, don't get me wrong, however Knights are balanced in PvE and PvP with no stun, no mez (until WAY late) and no CC. So if they didn't have a way to interrupt a mob more than usual they wouldn't last long (our last fight is the biggest culprit ever). So yeah, you could remove the interrupt, but just keep in mind the second you do Knights get another ability that may or may not make you even angrier. Like a base-line stun.

[UncleOst]

Hmm. I've seen you fight deprava. Against you I'll take all the interrupts I can get.

[ArchangelLBC]

I play a Guardian, and while I see this as being an issue for ranged (I have a Merc) I also understand that it's done this way for a reason. I wont say a good reason, but still a reason. Warrior/Knight game balance is tied to charge/leap to do everything and the kitchen sink. Because options to spread out those abilities they give or trigger don't exist. Consider all the abilities tied to a Merc's Tracer Missile. Armor reduction, possible Rapid Shot refresh (with more damage) it builds up shield, it makes your Rail Shot trigger and they take more umph from it, ect. Everything and the kitchen sink is thrown into that 1 ability, making you play around it, the same for the charge/leap.

 

I will agree removing the interrupt may do some good for the ranged people, don't get me wrong, however Knights are balanced in PvE and PvP with no stun, no mez (until WAY late) and no CC. So if they didn't have a way to interrupt a mob more than usual they wouldn't last long (our last fight is the biggest culprit ever). So yeah, you could remove the interrupt, but just keep in mind the second you do Knights get another ability that may or may not make you even angrier. Like a base-line stun.

 

 

Things aren't tied to leap NEARLY as much as they're tied to Grav Round. Also did you seriously say leveling would be harder without it? Mobs are only casting on you once you're in range, at which point you can't leap at them if you aren't an annihilation mara/watchmen sent. In PVP, how insane is it that the melee player should always get the first hit in when facing off against a ranged?

 

If the OP had said "remove the root" I might have agreed that that's a little over the top. Removing the interrupt though? Only reason I wouldn't support this change is it wouldn't noticeably improve a ranged person's life.

[Arkerus]

There are PLENTY of knock backs and roots in this game. It's the only other interrupt they have and it's completely situational. It only works if the person is within leap range. Too close and it doesnt work. Too far away and it doesnt work. Caster don't need any more tools. The game is already a stun, freeze, slow, knock back AOE fest.

[AdmiralParmesan]

There are PLENTY of knock backs and roots in this game. It's the only other interrupt they have and it's completely situational. It only works if the person is within leap range. Too close and it doesnt work. Too far away and it doesnt work. Caster don't need any more tools. The game is already a stun, freeze, slow, knock back AOE fest.

 

I honestly can't beleive you just said that, lets look at that comparatively to show how little understanding you have of this game and the classes. By definition every interrupt situational, but the thing is force charge ends up interrupting a lot of the time when the interrupt wasn't even intended, and as a sorc that gets focused alot let me tell you it interrupts a lot of casts. Here is the easiest class to compare to since "ranged have too many tools"

 

Assassin vs Sorc

 

Inquisitor baseline CC

-Electrocute 10 meter 4 second stun

-Whirlwind 2 second cast, 8 second mez

-Force slow

-Overload

--Can both spec for instant whirlwind and creeping terror root

 

Sorcerer Unique

-Bubble stun

-Root on overload

 

Assassin Unique

-Spike 2 second stun with trip animation

-Mind trap of combat mez

- Can spec for Wither, AOE slow with low damage

 

 

Don't even get me started on the differences defensive cooldowns, survivability and burst damage capability. Ranged are at a serious disadvantage in this game, unless you play a sniper.

Edited December 22, 2012 by AdmiralParmesan

[Chemic_al]

I will agree removing the interrupt may do some good for the ranged people, don't get me wrong, however Knights are balanced in PvE and PvP with no stun, no mez (until WAY late) and no CC. So if they didn't have a way to interrupt a mob more than usual they wouldn't last long (our last fight is the biggest culprit ever). So yeah, you could remove the interrupt, but just keep in mind the second you do Knights get another ability that may or may not make you even angrier. Like a base-line stun.

 

Lol? Force stasis/choke is fairly early (24 is it?). Guardians get push and Sentinels can cc droids. And who are they interrupting on the first leap anyway in PvE? Once you're in melee range you can make do with the standard interrupt like everyone else does.

 

I'd not only remove the interrupt, but make leap 20m in wzs. It's waaaaay too easy for them to close gaps.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Chemic_al

[Exilim]

This would be a healer buff that's for sure. Anyone bring that up yet?

[MindgameZ]

It is safe to say SwToR is a melee based game. Currently speaking the only reliable ranged dps class is the sniper class, which is still relatively unpopular. What makes the sniper class viable is that it can actually get casts off in this game as opposed to the other two ranged AC Merc and Sorc. The melee classes in this game already have the advantage when it comes down to cooldowns, options and burst potential. The main problems with the Sorcerer and Mercenary class are summarized below and afterwards the reasoning for this nerf.

 

Mercenary DPS

Pros

-Decent to good damage single target when left alone

-Can heal up when not being targeted or focused

-Dispell

 

Cons

-Easily shutdown by pressure due to cast reliance

-Low mitigation

-Low mobility

-Low control capability

-Lack of options

 

Sorcerer DPS

Pros

-Good aoe pressure (not burst, pressure. This is what leads to the large numbers you see sorcs pulling in warzones)

-Can offheal decently and can pull teammates

-Dispell

-Decent Mobility and can kite a single target relatively effectively

-Decent control depending on the spec played

 

Cons

-Easily shutdown due to realiance on casts

-Single target damage has a ramp-up time due to Dots being necessary

-Unreliable and low burst damage, Hybrid needs force lightning for its burst, Madness has no burst and lightning can't get the casts off to utilize it's burst

-No good mechanic for force management

-Lowest in game mitigation and no defensive cooldown, no unique offensive cooldown either

-Lack of options

 

Now all of these problems would not be fixed by nerfing the interrupt on force charge, but it would help. Both Mercenaries, Sorcerers and their republic counterparts are hunted in warzones due to their low mitigation and lack of ways to fight back. Force charge is already a gap closer, root and interrupt as well as mediocre damage. The fact that it force charge is an interrupt makes it even harder for these classes to get any cast off. It is highly annoying to be aggro an entire team merely because of your class choice. It has come to the point that certain players will target, focus and follow users of said classes merely because they are at such a disadvantage. Combining the force charge interrupt with the regular interrupt and the large amounts of CC each class has makes it impossible to even get casts off even semi-regularly. This is especially so as these classes are often chain force charged making it impossible to get any cast off, or get away from your opponents due to being frequently rooted.

 

As stated earlier this would not fix all the inherent problems with these classes. However if Powertech can justify their burst by saying its a glass cannon, so should these. Mercenaries and Sorcerers are easily just as squishy if not more squishy than a powertech, and a powertech doesn't have to worry about casts. This is not saying powertechs are op, but almost every player I have pvped with has quit the game if their main was one of these two advanced classes, or rerolled. The fact that there are no Mercenaries at all in rated pvp and less than 4 decent Sorceror DPS in rated on my server is a problem. The same few class/spec variations have dominated this game since the very beginning and its starting to become pretty stale because of such.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------

Even if you do not agree with this nerf Idea I hope you will at least support that these classes need some help to become more viable in a competitive scene. The amount of skill necessary to even be remotely successful as a DPS sorc or DPS merc is out of balance with the results of what the classes can accomplish.

 

and nerf watchmen even harder? No thank-you!

[AdmiralParmesan]

Lol? Force stasis/choke is fairly early (24 is it?). Guardians get push and Sentinels can cc droids. And who are they interrupting on the first leap anyway in PvE? Once you're in melee range you can make do with the standard interrupt like everyone else does.

 

I'd not only remove the interrupt, but make leap 20m in wzs. It's waaaaay too easy for them to close gaps.

 

I wouldn't nerf the force charge range, its just very hard to get a cast off as a Merc or Sorc. I want melee to have capability to get around, but the options these classes have are simply inferior with compared to reliable damage and options melee currently have. It is very easy for melee to close the gaps and keep in melee range, but it would be nice if it was nearly as easy to create a gap as ranged, or at least do damage semi-reliably if we are forced to stay up close.

 

Personally I want my Sorc's melee attacks to benefit from my main stat like every other class. It might not be much, but at least being able to pretend I have a light-saber and being able to do some solid direct damage without casting would be nice since I constantly end up in melee ranged anyway.

 

As for the comments on vengeance, it is already the best 1v1 spec for juggs in the game. It just needs to have its damage brought up a little, and if unstoppable is removed then compensate for it. Unstoppable is very overpowered, especially since it is attached to the class that is already the best at running the ball in hutball. It may not seem like much to you, but 4 seconds of immunity is a lot of time where a merc or sorc can't do anything in return. Its a bad mechanic thats not fun to play around as ranged, but that by no means is me saying I want vengeance nerfed to the ground. If you nerf a class or spec, it also needs to be compensated.

 

Just simply nerfing a class is harmful to the player base unless a direct nerf is the only way to balance the game for fairness.

[AdmiralParmesan]

This would be a healer buff that's for sure. Anyone bring that up yet?

 

I thought about that as well. The main complain of sorc and merc healers is that its also difficult to get casts off. Healing Operatives don't need cast as often, but it would still be a buff to them sadly. With bubble stun getting nerf, I don't think this would be a problem, and its not like the warrior interrupt isn't on a short cooldown anyway.

[Ramtar]

Lol? Force stasis/choke is fairly early (24 is it?). Guardians get push and Sentinels can cc droids. And who are they interrupting on the first leap anyway in PvE? Once you're in melee range you can make do with the standard interrupt like everyone else does.

 

I'd not only remove the interrupt, but make leap 20m in wzs. It's waaaaay too easy for them to close gaps.

 

why don't the devs just make the range on ALL classes abilities 4m so everyone will have to travel the same distance to close the gap.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Ramtar

[Xinika]

Shadows still have force Shroud, Can switch to Dark charge, Deflction, Force cloack as well as more CC abilities than a sorcerer. DPS Sorcerer's only have static barrier which also harms the synergy between them and sorcerer healers and an instant cast heal that heals for around 1.8k on non crit.

 

Its pretty easy to tell that even though balance/madness assassins are squishy they are still less squishy than sorcs.

...No. Stance switching costs 100 Force and in addition, Balance NEEDS Force Technique to perform properly. I am sorry, but your knowledge of Shadows are quite low.

 

Balance Shadow is by far squishier than a Sage and to add a further point to that - The squishiest spec in game period. A 3 second resilience saves it from not a single thing.

Bubble>>>Resil in overall mitigation.

[AdmiralParmesan]

why don't the devs just make the range on ALL classes abilities 4m so everyone will have to travel the same distance to close the gap.

 

Because that would ruin the key differences between classes. So either you are trolling, or you honestly think ranged would all like to play 4 meters from their opponent. Regardless, stupid suggestion is stupid

[AdmiralParmesan]

...No. Stance switching costs 100 Force and in addition, Balance NEEDS Force Technique to perform properly. I am sorry, but your knowledge of Shadows are quite low.

 

Balance Shadow is by far squishier than a Sage and to add a further point to that - The squishiest spec in game period. A 3 second resilience saves it from not a single thing.

Bubble>>>Resil in overall mitigation.

 

Squishier? you can stealth out of the fight, and switching stances does remove force, but its still an OPTION. You can't decide to become more tanky if you need to run the ball as a sorc. This is aside from the point assassins can become immune to tech/force and therefore CC temporarily as well. Assassin burst in madness is also superior as well as your force management. You view the sorc bubble as the end all answer to sorc problems, but when your burst is already low as a sorc and you need to spend a global every 13 seconds just to keep a baseline mitigation so you don't instantly die there is a problem. This is aside from the point that full madness has no way to truly regen force as a sorc, so when you add in the fact that you are spending a large amount of force keeping this bubble up you end up running out of force with no way to get it back.

 

I am fully aware full madness assassins are squishy, but at least you have options for less squishy spec and can deal burst damage. The least squishy spec Sorcs have is healing, which is a completely different gameplay style and orientation. When was the last time someone said "we can't do rated, we don't have a dps sorc"? Never

[ArchangelLBC]

There are PLENTY of knock backs and roots in this game. It's the only other interrupt they have and it's completely situational. It only works if the person is within leap range. Too close and it doesnt work. Too far away and it doesnt work. Caster don't need any more tools. The game is already a stun, freeze, slow, knock back AOE fest.

 

Force Kick would like to have a word with you.

[MimicUnleashed]

Lol? Force stasis/choke is fairly early (24 is it?). Guardians get push and Sentinels can cc droids. And who are they interrupting on the first leap anyway in PvE? Once you're in melee range you can make do with the standard interrupt like everyone else does.

 

I'd not only remove the interrupt, but make leap 20m in wzs. It's waaaaay too easy for them to close gaps.

 

Choke/Stasis is a Channel (unless you're a tank) so it's the same as melee casting Force Lightning. Only you're sort of standing there. The damage is so-so, and really one of the best reasons to use it is to hold someone in the fire or to let something cooldown that's ALMOST there so you can live/escape. That's really about it unless you're LoL-smash. CC droids I even forget about. I play a Guardian so my CC consists of blowing Awe and praying it's enough.

 

But someone else had complained that Ranged can't Kite enough? Well I hate to say it, but it's fair to have both of you beating on each other and seeing who lives. If you break it down the that complaint is filed under "I can't kill him without him getting near me!" and no one likes drying while slowly trudging up hill to maybe tickle someone. The only fair way to settle that is to give ranged a few more defensive tools and passives to take a little beating in melee and have things be about even and just let it be a more even race to 0 HP. However the idea of "Ranged should be able to kite melee" is like asking for the other guy to be armed with a pool noodle because you want to pays ya monies but not takes ya chances.