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Rule of two is weak an so is Bane.


BurnedRemains

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It doesn't matter if the Galatic Empire didn't last for a long time. The goal of the Sith is to destroy the Jedi, and only two Sith lords ever actually achieved this: Darth Traya and Darth Sidious - they are therefore the greatest Sith lords who ever lived. Can't argue with that.

 

Except for the part where in both instances there were living Jedi still in the galaxy following their deaths?

Edited by GrimAce
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However, The Sith Empire of the old ages was an entire EMPIRE in itself with no republic interference for over thousand years. Sidious' rule lasted for what, less than 30 ?

 

That's called the EU writers giving into their fanboy urges and trying to expand powers above and beyond to making the original trilogy null and void.

 

Ironic for a franchise whose fanbase ADORES the original trilogy but HATES the prequel trilogy, which expands upon concepts of the Force and opened the floodgate FOR events like KOTOR and SWTOR to take place.

 

IRONY! Gotta love it.

 

EDIT: Oh and BEFORE people start picking apart my response and claim "Tales of the Jedi started that! not the prequels!" and try to pull their butts out of the flames, anything prior to Episode I still clinged firmly to the realm of the original trilogy and was pretty stiff and ridgid by comparison, the most fancy abilities being created through Sith Alchemy or dozens of Jedi binding their powers of the Light Side as one. KOTOR and SWTOR in turn draw from a balanced pool of both the works of Tales and the early EU, and the prequel trilogy.

Edited by Timarick
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Except for the part where in both instances there were living Jedi still in the galaxy following their deaths?

 

Such is the cycle of the Force. You can never truly destroy the Jedi anymore than you can truly destroy the Sith.

 

Destroy their power base and influence in the galaxy and reduce their numbers to 2 or 3? That you CAN do.

 

But because of sheer arrogance on both sides, they don't bother to completely wipe out the teachings and one always rises, sparking a new Jedi or new Sith Order.

 

Traya and Sidious are the 2 closest to ever utterly snuffing out the Jedi.

 

And on the Jedi side, that distinction falls to Revan and Luke Skywalker.

 

They will always come extremely close, but something will always stir. It is the will of the Force.

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Such is the cycle of the Force. You can never truly destroy the Jedi anymore than you can truly destroy the Sith.

 

Destroy their power base and influence in the galaxy and reduce their numbers to 2 or 3? That you CAN do.

 

But because of sheer arrogance on both sides, they don't bother to completely wipe out the teachings and one always rises, sparking a new Jedi or new Sith Order.

 

Traya and Sidious are the 2 closest to ever utterly snuffing out the Jedi.

 

And on the Jedi side, that distinction falls to Revan and Luke Skywalker.

 

They will always come extremely close, but something will always stir. It is the will of the Force.

 

Weeeeeeeeeeeeell...less so because of sheer arrogance, more to do with EU writers dragging them out of the grave kicking and screaming. Keep in mind, EU continuity originally stated that the Sith were done and dusted, and completely wiped off the map. The closest anyone got to a proper Sith revival was the whole Scepter of Ragnos arc in Jedi Academy, or Exar Kun's spirit in the Jedi Academy trilogy.

 

Huh, never ntoiced that before. But yeah, Dark/Fallen Jedi and Sith spirits were the standard enemy for ages. The Sith were, for a long time, simply not allowed post Galactic Civil War.

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Weeeeeeeeeeeeell...less so because of sheer arrogance, more to do with EU writers dragging them out of the grave kicking and screaming. Keep in mind, EU continuity originally stated that the Sith were done and dusted, and completely wiped off the map. The closest anyone got to a proper Sith revival was the whole Scepter of Ragnos arc in Jedi Academy, or Exar Kun's spirit in the Jedi Academy trilogy.

 

Huh, never ntoiced that before. But yeah, Dark/Fallen Jedi and Sith spirits were the standard enemy for ages. The Sith were, for a long time, simply not allowed post Galactic Civil War.

 

That is completely true, right up until we get to the introduction of Korriban in what I believe was either KOTOR 1 or a novel just before, but it was in the early 2000s, so right around the height of the prequel trilogy. Ancient birthplace of the Sith. Once you brought that into the universe, anyone could become a Sith by studying the ancient teachings. Then Ziost came along, and Dromund Kaas (introduced WAAAY before SWTOR). But it all began with Korriban.

 

True they could never truly be "Sith" in the same sense Darth Sidious or Darth Malgus or Darth Bane was, but as we all know, Exar Kun became a Sith Lord through a simmilar method: Studying ancient Sith teachings and influence from long dead Sith spirits. And yet nobody disputes if HE was ever truly a Sith.

 

EDIT: I was just going for an IN-Universe explanation.

Edited by Timarick
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That is completely true, right until we get to the introduction of Korriban in what I believe was either KOTOR 1 or a novel just before, but it was in the early 2000s, so right around the height of the prequel trilogy. Ancient birthplace of the Sith. Once you brought that into the universe, anyone could become a Sith by studying the ancient teachings. Then Ziost came along, and Dromund Kaas (introduced WAAAY before SWTOR). But it all began with Korriban.

 

True they could never truly be "Sith" in the same sense Darth Sidious or Darth Malgus or Darth Bane was, but as we all know, Exar Kun became a Sith Lord through a simmilar method: Studying ancient Sith teachings and influence from long dead Sith spirits. And yet nobody disputes if HE was ever truly a Sith.

 

EDIT: I was just going for an IN-Universe explanation.

 

Woah, I didn't even see your previous post. Great minds think alike, eh?

 

Though the difference between Exar Kun and say...Darth Caedus is that way too much effort was made in trying to make Jacen all unique and all-powerful and ****** and whatnot. Exar Kun was considered a great character because writers didn't try to beat you over the head with his awesomeness.

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Woah, I didn't even see your previous post. Great minds think alike, eh?

 

Though the difference between Exar Kun and say...Darth Caedus is that way too much effort was made in trying to make Jacen all unique and all-powerful and ****** and whatnot. Exar Kun was considered a great character because writers didn't try to beat you over the head with his awesomeness.

 

That's pretty much what the writers do these days. Honestly I feel Darth Malgus as a bigger threat than Darth Vitiate, even though he's lived for a thousand years and has god like powers.

 

Problem most writers have these days is that a. they try too hard to get you invested into their characters and b. they ignore the most basic rule when it comes to writing: The KISS rule: KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!

 

Lol. But yeah I totally agree that great minds think alike :p. I figured "ok if placating them with real world explanations is too much for their tiny minds, might as well bust out the in-canon..."

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That's pretty much what the writers do these days. Honestly I feel Darth Malgus as a bigger threat than Darth Vitiate, even though he's lived for a thousand years and has god like powers.

 

Problem most writers have these days is that a. they try too hard to get you invested into their characters and b. they ignore the most basic rule when it comes to writing: The KISS rule: KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!

 

Lol. But yeah I totally agree that great minds think alike :p. I figured "ok if placating them with real world explanations is too much for their tiny minds, might as well bust out the in-canon..."

 

Perfect example comes from KOTOR 2. Look at Kreia. She was a phenomenal character because her power wasn't insisted on - she herself spent the entire game intentionally avoiding the limelight, then BAM. Suddenly you have to kill her.

 

Granted Obsidian did a poor job in areas with TSL's writing and cutscenes, but she is easily the most compelling Darksider I've seen to come out of the EU in recent memory.

 

Though I can't ever bring myself to like Malgus because...well, let's face it, he's Malak 2.0 without the cool deathscene and Star Forge MacGuffin.

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the problem with the EU is "top thisism" is rampent. it's particularly bad with some writers (Kevin J Anderson comes to mind) but it's basicly a matter of "well to be impressive this new thing must be better then all thats come before"

 

Pretty much. Perfect example is the Yuuzhan Vong. They went so far left field to introduce a new, overpowered galactic threat that a lot of people (at least a lot of people I've spoken to, not trying to make a generalization here) simply disregard it from EU canon entirely.

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Perfect example comes from KOTOR 2. Look at Kreia. She was a phenomenal character because her power wasn't insisted on - she herself spent the entire game intentionally avoiding the limelight, then BAM. Suddenly you have to kill her.

 

Granted Obsidian did a poor job in areas with TSL's writing and cutscenes, but she is easily the most compelling Darksider I've seen to come out of the EU in recent memory.

 

Though I can't ever bring myself to like Malgus because...well, let's face it, he's Malak 2.0 without the cool deathscene and Star Forge MacGuffin.

 

That's your opinion, and that's completely fine. I personally like Malgus myself having read his novel and so forth, but I think we can both agree that Malgus by comparison to his boss, was a far more effective villain. You felt his presence and the chill of evil with him throughout the game far more than you did the Emperor, even in the JK class story.

 

But you hit the nails in the head there my friend

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Pretty much. Perfect example is the Yuuzhan Vong. They went so far left field to introduce a new, overpowered galactic threat that a lot of people (at least a lot of people I've spoken to, not trying to make a generalization here) simply disregard it from EU canon entirely.

 

And this is why no fans were upset when the news broke that Episodes 7 thru 9 will overwrite this particular part of EU history.

 

Ironically, doing so does VERY LITTLE on the narrative outside of Anakin Solo's death and Chewie's death, which I'll be the latter getting killed in the movies too, and for EU concerns, Anakin Solo could've died in some other event for all we care. It really doesn't affect too much of the narrative prior to or post. That's pretty sad when a series can alienate itself from its own continuity and when its own creators can look back and ask "*** IS THAT?!"

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That's your opinion, and that's completely fine. I personally like Malgus myself having read his novel and so forth, but I think we can both agree that Malgus by comparison to his boss, was a far more effective villain. You felt his presence and the chill of evil with him throughout the game far more than you did the Emperor, even in the JK class story.

 

But you hit the nails in the head there my friend

 

Comapred to the Emepror, yeah, I'll agree that he was more effective as a villain. I think BW:A tried to go with the whole mystery man archetype for the Emperor as a protagonist, and it wound up not working because we simply didn't care two credits about him or what he was trying to do.

 

Plus Malgus was a poster boy for the Sith, so in the advertising build up to launch, you kind of wanted to know more about him then the Emperor.

 

EDIT:

And this is why no fans were upset when the news broke that Episodes 7 thru 9 will overwrite this particular part of EU history.

 

Ironically, doing so does VERY LITTLE on the narrative outside of Anakin Solo's death and Chewie's death, which I'll be the latter getting killed in the movies too, and for EU concerns, Anakin Solo could've died in some other event for all we care. It really doesn't affect too much of the narrative prior to or post. That's pretty sad when a series can alienate itself from its own continuity and when its own creators can look back and ask "*** IS THAT?!"

 

Wait, really? That's the best news I've heard all week o.O

Edited by GrimAce
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Comapred to the Emepror, yeah, I'll agree that he was more effective as a villain. I think BW:A tried to go with the whole mystery man archetype for the Emperor as a protagonist, and it wound up not working because we simply didn't care two credits about him or what he was trying to do.

 

Plus Malgus was a poster boy for the Sith, so in the advertising build up to launch, you kind of wanted to know more about him then the Emperor.

 

EDIT:

 

 

Wait, really? That's the best news I've heard all week o.O

 

It was almost the second established thing since Disney purchased Lucasfilm into their corporate portfolio besides stating they would be hands off with the project like they are in large part with Marvel and that the story would be based on old story notes written by George and that he would still retain a role in the movie as chief creative consultant. The story would be set with Luke in his later years (the "proto-script" written by George Lucas states his 40s) training a new generation of Jedi.

 

Luke in his 40s places the timeline of these new films to be around the, you guessed it, period of the New Jedi Order series and thus the YuZhanVong would be cut from continuity entirely.

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It was almost the second established thing since Disney purchased Lucasfilm into their corporate portfolio besides stating they would be hands off with the project like they are in large part with Marvel and that the story would be based on old story notes written by George and that he would still retain a role in the movie as chief creative consultant. The story would be set with Luke in his later years (the "proto-script" written by George Lucas states his 40s) training a new generation of Jedi.

 

Luke in his 40s places the timeline of these new films to be around the, you guessed it, period of the New Jedi Order series and thus the YuZhanVong would be cut from continuity entirely.

 

Please excuse me while I run naked through the streets in joy.

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And this is why no fans were upset when the news broke that Episodes 7 thru 9 will overwrite this particular part of EU history.

 

Ironically, doing so does VERY LITTLE on the narrative outside of Anakin Solo's death and Chewie's death, which I'll be the latter getting killed in the movies too, and for EU concerns, Anakin Solo could've died in some other event for all we care. It really doesn't affect too much of the narrative prior to or post. That's pretty sad when a series can alienate itself from its own continuity and when its own creators can look back and ask "*** IS THAT?!"

Hmmm... I'd like to see a source for this. I'd embrace the news but I'm pretty sure that the only thing Disney & Lucasfilm have said is that it will be an 'original story'. This sounds like a rumor.

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Hmmm... I'd like to see a source for this. I'd embrace the news but I'm pretty sure that the only thing Disney & Lucasfilm have said is that it will be an 'original story'. This sounds like a rumor.

 

I wish I saved the link now...

 

You can find it on cosmicbooknews.com

 

or

 

comicbookmovie.com

 

for more info.

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Yeah, I wouldn't take those articles at face value. Everything I could find seems to source back to this Reuters article:

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/18/us-maya-calendar-starwars-idUSBRE8BH16120121218

 

Long story short? Everyone's skewing the story as it gets republished. The original speculation about Yavin IV returning in Ep 7 comes from fans. Everyone seems to be adding their own spin on that and intepreting from there.

 

Tl;dr? It's all a lie. Factually speaking, we still know next to nothing about what the Sequel trilogy will entail.

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