NO Addons please. There is another solution!

[curzed]

I love how those who dont like addons call the other side bad players and the people who wants addons call the nay sayers bads

It's like a bunch of kindergarden kids *wha wha wha* oO

 

 

Whats so wrong in getting a option to mess about with the ui and see how well we preform our task to be a better player, I sure as hell aint going to sit and take notes of my scrolling combat text to average my dps (or time to kill some mob I can just spank to death to check my dps that way).

 

As far as DBM style mods I couldent care less, I just want my damn ui changes tbh!!! ! ! !!!

 

 

!!

 

The problem is that there are ******s who annoy others with their "imba" skills. Usually they are not raiding material but still the pester parts of the community with their posts.

 

Personally I prefer a damge (done/taken) meter to be able to improve the choices of mods and such since it's more or less a guesswork at this stage.

[BizzyBonez]

I cant wait for addons because i cannot stand this damn UI anymore.

[theonepanda]

I can't theorycraft without training dummies and recount.

 

I can just throw tooltip numbers in the air and rely on anecdotal information on how much "x" procs.

 

This is pretty unacceptable.

 

I don't care if we don't have addons, but at least give us the combat log. So much is impossible to determine right now.

[knomore]

I have this feeling that people who whine about how bad addons are have never been in any high end raiding guild. Coming from a top 100 and #1 in the us at one time I can assure you that addons are 100% required to be a top end player. I will not play this game thru end game without the ability to modify my ui or better cool down tracking. If you hate addons your just bad at mmos and that's that.

[Truga]

I have this feeling that people who whine about how bad addons are have never been in any high end raiding guild. Coming from a top 100 and #1 in the us at one time I can assure you that addons are 100% required to be a top end player. I will not play this game thru end game without the ability to modify my ui or better cool down tracking. If you hate addons your just bad at mmos and that's that.

 

See, it's people like you that alienate add-ons from other people.

 

I personally am not strictly against add-ons, because I would use them if they were available. However, if you'd get off your high horse, and even consider the other side's argument, you might be able to even convince someone, with actual arguments of why add-ons are good. The way you're going, just more and more people will hate add-ons though.

 

Personally I hope we don't see them, because I don't want to _have_ to use them to complete nightmare mode content. If they are eventually made available though, kiss this easy-mode of a game we currently have goodbye. I'll make sure the content is either hard enough for literally almost no-one to complete, or add-ons getting removed again, so people can't just breeze through content made without add-ons in mind. Neither of which you'll like, I bet.

[TheGremli]

Instead of 3rd party addons we just need the devs to expand the default UI and allow for customization.

 

The real problem with 3rd party addons has been hinted at by many in this thread. When you allow third party addons you need to develop content with them in mind.

 

DBM is a prime example of this in WOW.

 

There are a few updates that would make 80% of the "we want addons" people happy, myself included.

 

1: Option to remove graphics from action bar

2: More customizable action bar (more rows/longer rows)

3: Better raid/party frames

4: Better/movable player and target + target of target frame

5: DPS/HPS meter (though don't support linking in chat)

6: Threat meter (desperately need this for tanking, possibly a threat meter on nameplate for tanks too)

7: Custom bag, think ark inventory

8: Let us open more then 2 windows in the UI

9: Let us view and compare gear for companions we don't have summoned/are on a mission.

10: Show space quests on star map.

11: BETTER AH INTERFACE, PLEASE GIVE US A BETTER AH!!! We need to kick start the economy.

12: Make the usable by selection actually do something like only show stuff I can actually use...

13: Add in a "desirable for" option too or allow filter by stat (mods and augs need this badly as the market is completely flooded on my server).

14: Add filter AH by lowest price - per item

15: Show competition on the "Sell" screen in AH.

[Yoggs]

I can't theorycraft without training dummies and recount.

 

I can just throw tooltip numbers in the air and rely on anecdotal information on how much "x" procs.

 

This is pretty unacceptable.

 

I don't care if we don't have addons, but at least give us the combat log. So much is impossible to determine right now.

 

But don't you know? Theorycrafting and min/maxers and hardcore raiders with their addons ruined WoW! It meant you could no longer get away with some crazy spec where you randomly pick and choose talents from all the trees. You would no longer be accepted into a decent group for dungeons and raids when they looked at your gear and found a mish mash of stats with no enchants and crappy itemization after noticing that your numbers were piss poor. THIS WILL NOT BE ALLOWED IN SWTOR!

[TheGremli]

Yes, in SWTOR we accept all fails and terribads... sry, but theorycrafters will still come up with cookie cutter specs and if a group sees a BH stacking str he still isn't getting an invite. We will know shortly what stats to stack for what class and what spec for what role and the proper rotation.

 

/bubbleburst

 

The only mod that really ruined wow was DBM. The reason is the devs had to make encounters based around DBM which meant all the non DBM users were at a disadvantage. If you didn't have DBM that was your choice but with DBM all the encounters seemed... blah.

[Yoggs]

Instead of 3rd party addons we just need the devs to expand the default UI and allow for customization.

 

The real problem with 3rd party addons has been hinted at by many in this thread. When you allow third party addons you need to develop content with them in mind.

 

DBM is a prime example of this in WOW.

 

There are a few updates that would make 80% of the "we want addons" people happy, myself included.

 

1: Option to remove graphics from action bar

2: More customizable action bar (more rows/longer rows)

3: Better raid/party frames

4: Better/movable player and target + target of target frame

5: DPS/HPS meter (though don't support linking in chat)

6: Threat meter (desperately need this for tanking, possibly a threat meter on nameplate for tanks too)

7: Custom bag, think ark inventory

8: Let us open more then 2 windows in the UI

9: Let us view and compare gear for companions we don't have summoned/are on a mission.

10: Show space quests on star map.

11: BETTER AH INTERFACE, PLEASE GIVE US A BETTER AH!!! We need to kick start the economy.

12: Make the usable by selection actually do something like only show stuff I can actually use...

13: Add in a "desirable for" option too or allow filter by stat (mods and augs need this badly as the market is completely flooded on my server).

14: Add filter AH by lowest price - per item

15: Show competition on the "Sell" screen in AH.

 

You forgot a few of the changes that should be made to chat such as being able to shift click a player name in chat to figure out what class/level/guild they belong to as well as being able to simply right click a name in chat and have several options like ignore/add as friend/invite to group/clan invite. Also add a feature to chat that lets you post a crafting recipe for when people are asking what mats you need for an item. Other than those you are spot on.

 

Meters, I just want to improve my performance, and be able to know when I'm wasting my time or having my time wasted. I have no need to link it or have it linked.

 

The GTN function is horrible, when I select "Light Armor, Prototype or Custom, Usable by Me" for my SI it turns up nothing. WTH kinda set up is that?

 

And yes, please get rid of that big *** picture of me and my target on the UI, or just give me a boatload of options to customize it.

[KitePolaris]

If it takes an addon to make debuff squares larger on the gosh darn raid frames so I don't have to put on super reading glasses to cleanse my team, then I want addons.

 

If it takes an addon to make the UI scale smaller because it's too damn big, then I want addons.

 

If it takes an addon to move the bars around my screen, then I want addons.

 

If it takes an addon to get rid of lulzy portraits on my UI, then I want addons.

[bpphantom]

Personally, I would like to edit the UI... it can get in the way a little... not to bothered about the DPS, healbots etc... but a customisable UI would be very nice indeed.

 

This. Though they've already said they're looking into and and want to allow customization.

[TheGremli]

I also forgot the ability to invite guildies from the guild page. Currently you need to add them as a friend then you can simply right click invite to group.

 

Also a guild bank would be very nice with all of the crewskills and mod swapping going on. Or at least a guild crewskill registrar.

[Grim_X]

The only mod that really ruined wow was DBM. The reason is the devs had to make encounters based around DBM

 

Boss mechanics should and will evolve regardless from simple tank and spank enounters. You can't do years of simple mechanics and not expect people to get bored of it and by the same token if you throw too many mechanics in it becomes too difficult to manage it without some way of tracking things. I raided from original Molten Core through to Cataclysm as a raider and raid leader. You know what DBM does? It puts timer bars on your screen for X ability and yells at you when X bad ability is about to go off. You know what we did in MC before DBM was around? We had someone time out an ability (stopwatches were popular) and yell at you when it was about to go off. Do people not see the similarities? Removing tedium and an unneeded aggravation is ok. The best part is that we STILL (I'm speaking up until mid Cata, don't play much WoW anymore) call things out on vent even with DBM. Anyone that claims DBM does work for you is either misinformed or ignorant, it has never done such a thing (other addons did and were subsequently banned or broken by the API devs).

 

I'll go one further: Ulduar. I can probably count on one hand the number of people that don't admit to it being one of if not the best raids ever released mechanics and lore wise. Now how many people got One Light while it was content (before ToC)? Not many and yet DBM was in full force then, it certainly didn't let anyone just walk in with 25 people and clear it because they had it, certainly not, especially with hard modes. How many people got Bane of the Fallen King or Light of Dawn before 4.0 changes? And that was with the ICC buff! I'm sure that small percentage only got it because they were the only ones to run DBM, right? (No one cares about normal modes. Want a cookie?). On that note: I got my Herald of the Titans title I and have never taken it off, that took coordination and skill (argue this word somewhere else) and I think it was not only far harder to achieve that than anything I listed above but also FUN and in no way did DBM make it 'easier'.

 

Mechanics will always and have to evolve, DBM has done nothing that either a raid already calls out things for you or track them yourself in other ways, it just simplified that process.

 

Believe me though, I tried to think of a way that it makes things easier (simplifying/streamlining is a Quality of Life change NOT changing difficulty) but I can't. I'm very opposed to automation of any kind, I remember the original decursive, no no no. And despite the name Healbot is not a bot in the automation sense it's just a convenient and ironic name. (Note: I don't heal but I know this from talking to and leading healers in raids)

 

I want Damage/Death Meters, I want a threat meter/indicator, I need UI customization. I need to be able to evaluate my own and others performance. Not for an epeen, I don't care about that, I think it's childish. I want to find and remove the lazy and help others improve. I don't want someone dragging the rest of the group down because they don't know their own mechanics or gameplay, lots of people want to improve and feel they are contributing and I can do that without the "give 110% or ****" mentality.

 

Lastly, I should add that any one who uses meters as a tool to mock or berate others are just bad players with a bad attitude. It is not the fault of the tool it's a fault of the person using it with malicious intent. Ban/ignore them and move on.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Grim_X

[TheGremli]

I think you missed the biggest aspects of DBM. It allowed people to zone out and wait for a sound to hit an ability to save themselves/not stand in fire.

 

Because people now would get warnings blizzard had to up the oneshot abilities/make instant cast boss abilities. Every other ability dbm can warn your about even monitor the cooldowns on boss abilities. Those cooldowns aren't visible to players who don't have DBM. So as the large majority of people got DBM Blizz started designing abilities and in some cases randomizing/restricting what info the client recieved. A prime example of this is on the Warlord boss in cata. His big tank damage attack is anywhere from 20-27 second cooldown in attempt to fool DBM, Nef also had mechanics designed purposely to mess with DBM if you were the add tank you learned this fast. Take a look at all the mechanics Blizzard adds in that requires everyone in raid to switch targets and burst within a few seconds or taunt swaps for tanks, those are there because of DBM. It's a lame mechanic that was developed to combat a mod, not improve gameplay.

 

As a huge fan of DBM and I still say it isn't needed. DBM was designed as a crutch for players which then turned into a tool to push more DPS by focusing less. The crutch evolved along with the game until people forgot how to walk without it.

 

By keeping DBM like mods out they can balance the encounters much more dynamically and use more visual clues to show boss abilities. All in all I loved DBM in WOW but it made every boss mechanic feel dead because you never actually figure out anything. My favorite fight in Cata was the Warlord one with the big tank damage, since DBM had a incorrect spell id the cooldown didn't work so we had to work out the mechanics ourselves.

[Zorke]

Yeah but before DBM, you just had a raid leader tell you what to do anyway. DBM simplified raiding, which I suppose made it easier for some. My guild is slightly above average and we have been together since AQ40. We've now moved over here, and have done all the normal content without addons with ease( not nightmares ).

 

However, the game feels VERY clunky right now, and PVP especially feels like I am playing the 2000 version of Halo for PC, with glitch lag stepping and horrid lag between button/spell execution. Doesn't really have to do with addons/additions needed to the game, but I think the overall combat system needs to be relooked before we start thinking about these others, minimal things.

[Jeskimo]

Without reading 20 pages I agree wholeheartedly with this thread. I also agree the UI needs more customization (see Rift) which they said they are planning to implement.

 

A full out complete modding of the game will ultimately take the direction and focus of raiding out of the developers hands and will have to cater to the mods making things "too easy". Encounters as they are are already fairly simplistic aside from a few like SOA.

 

I'd prefer to react by paying attention to the encounter instead of having to hit a button within .5 seconds of hearing a gong noise. Without mods the devs can give a bit more leeway for reaction timings while still offering a competitive experience. Plus they'll have to fix the ability delay before super strict timings can be commonplace.

[Dhimmi]

Don't like Addons?

 

Hurr Durr you're just bad.

 

Don't like 'em don't us 'em... also you're bad.

 

Anyone have a MORE COMPELLING argument?

 

So far I see more and better reasons for not having addons.

 

Yes to UI customization.

 

No to the rest of that stuff.

[Krazzo]

 

So far I see more and better reasons for not having addons.

[/QUOte]

 

That happens when you look on things with a biased view.

[DarthHendo]

don't like addons?

 

Hurr durr you're just bad.

 

Don't like 'em don't us 'em... Also you're bad.

 

 

fixt!

[Oteraign]

Healbots? NO

Deadly Boss Mode? NO

Gearscore? NO

 

Is fine to have someway to see the heal and the dps we do in total, but cmon just don't put addons that change the game.

[DarthHendo]

Healbots? NO

Deadly Boss Mode? NO

Gearscore? NO

 

Is fine to have someway to see the heal and the dps we do in total, but cmon just don't put addons that change the game.

 

I will agree with that. Ive been a raid healer for 6+ years, and have never used healbot, grid, clique, decursive.... always just xperl and keybinds.

 

Gearscore died with Arthas, and hate to tell you guys, but DBM is built in to SWTOR already. If you havent been to Eternity Vault, they flash messages on screen, and there are scripted emotes the bosses do to let you know what ability is next.

[jedipure]

Honestly, this entire community is filled with the same QQ'ing/flaming/trolling/whining/spammers/ignorant people that filled up WoW, HoN, LoL, and any other blizzard game. ( hon and lol are not blizzard games, I know.) Most threads are just a bunch of QQ that contribute NOTHING to the game.

 

I'm glad BW doesn't respond to QQ'ers and I hope they never post on threads like this because you can NEVER please everyone. Ignore them. Ignore them well. Even post a thread that says, WE ARE DOING IT OUR WAY. YOU DONT LIKE IT, ****.

 

I would rather play with a 50,000 non-flaming, non-trolling, non-whining community then play with 13 million DIPSHTTS.

 

LEAVE. GET OUT!!!!

 

GET OUT NOW!!!!!

[Xavier_Phaze]

I read a lot about people missing addons. "I need healbots, dpsmeters, threatmeter..." You can do just fine without these, it's just a different game, we just have to adapt. Healbot, for instance, turns a very interesting game into something pulled out of a 90's Nintendo!

As for the meters, I have a suggestion: an <End Flashpoint/Operation Report>, just like in the end of Warzones. Voilá, you can consult who's doing their jobs right. DPS, Healing, Protection, MVP vote also (why not?)... It's all there.

Please NO addons. Don't turn this very enjoyable game into a big load of numbers popping out of my screen...

 

 

P.S. I do admit that some customization options on UI are needed.

 

 

If people shouldnt be able to play with addons, and they should "adapt" Maybe you should just "adapt" to the current UI?

 

(not saying I like the ui btw lol)

[Kunitsukami]

No, your Mage friend was just f**king aweful.

 

Yeah.... but the reason he was getting into raids is that he could stare at a dps meter and get good burst dps so he looked good, and this meant he got into raids which allowed him to luck out on gear and grow his i-level and get into more raids... read everything I type or don't comment.

[roxxorszuLu]

But don't you know? Theorycrafting and min/maxers and hardcore raiders with their addons ruined WoW! It meant you could no longer get away with some crazy spec where you randomly pick and choose talents from all the trees. You would no longer be accepted into a decent group for dungeons and raids when they looked at your gear and found a mish mash of stats with no enchants and crappy itemization after noticing that your numbers were piss poor. THIS WILL NOT BE ALLOWED IN SWTOR!

 

BS Ruined wow, when ?

 

Classic ? BC ? Wotlk ? Did you know WoW is the most played mmo out there for YEARS ?? And was one of high competitive mmos. The Game is still played Massively, and there has always been addons. So dont talk ********...

 

 

If you want to pick random skills and stats, you just do and dont complain about not getting in FP if you cant compete there. You are responsible for your group aswell....

 

Sorry for my bad english.