Eurogamer re-reviews SWTOR

[RepentantDread]

Sounds more like an angry rant than a legit review. Plus none of those review sites are credible, so whatever.

[erei]

What has, though, is that story is no longer an exciting novelty, while World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria, Guild Wars 2 and The Secret World have all surpassed The Old Republic's stilted dialogue, basic cinematography and forgettable characters.

This made my day. Dunno about wow, haven't played this, hated the whole game. Especially the 13yo humor the autor seems to enjoy, but that's a personal opinion.

But I played the TSW beta, and the story telling was about a mute, and probably a mentally deficient person (you), listening to someone's rant. Then this someone would send you bash something. Usually completely unrelated to the previous rant. We watched some dialogs with a friend, and we laughed hard. Especially with the sherriff talking about how his dad killed kitten, then asking you to kill zombies. Not kitten zombies, that would have been cool, but the regular zombies.

On GW2, you are watching an endless artworks with 2 characters speaking. That's immersion. I'm not even talking about the absolute lack of choices except "instance A or B ?". It's just so annoying, you start skipping the cutscene. And don't miss anything, GW2 story is just another Disney story for the family. You are the good guy, and you need to save the world from the bad guys/dragons. Some good guys may die in pathetic ways, with a lot of violins. Other hero NPC may help you, but first YOU have to deal with THEIR 16yo issues. Character psychology is so bad you want to scream. If you survive the 80lvl of uninteresting story, boring quest and overall annoying lvling, find a group to do the last part of the story, IE killing the uber bad guy, you'll find the most anti climatic ending of all gaming history, INCLUDING mass effect 3. You'll have to spam your number 2 key for about 5 minutes on a dying dragon. And I'm not even kidding. I wish I do, because I did it twice (the second one for a friend), and it was the most wasted 10minutes of my life. I'm pretty sure I'll be sad thinking about those 10minutes on my dying bed, wishing I've done something worth it instead.

 

I'm no fanboy, Bioware break my heart with DA2 and ME3, there is nothing left for them inside. But seriously, SWTOR is the best story telling MMO you can have. By far. So yeah, many flaws, including the pathetic f2p service, the useless space minigame or the complete lack of difficulty, but the story and leveling are the best I've ever done in an MMO.

[Goretzu]

I think that he is saying that no matter how much you test there will be some bugs left. Its impossible to test this kind of complex software so well that a group of 500k+ users wont find anything wrong when they start using the new patch.

 

And no, I dont think this kind of thing should happen but sometimes it happens anyway. I think they are fixing it today.

 

 

It's a reoccuring bug that effected pretty much the entire game.

 

As he said, it could have been caught or they did catch it be decided to release it anyway and fix it Live (neither option is good).

[DarthMeerkat]

Out of 5 right?

 

Oh out of 10.

 

Yeah that guy is freakin high.

 

They gave http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-12-duke-nukem-forever-review a 3. And guild wars 2 a 9.

 

Say what you will about the rest of the game but the leveling process is hands down the best in any MMO.

Edited November 28, 2012 by DarthMeerkat

[RattyRattail]

Please explain how this game feels singleplayer?

 

The leveling process from 1-50 can be taken as a complete single-player experience. With the class and planet quests able to be easily soloable by all classes. The only challenging parts of the leveling experience is when and if one chooses to run flashpoints or heroic quests which does normally involve a group. The leveling process in this game is actually fun in my opinion because of the class and planet storylines, but the end game is sorely lacking.

 

The game falls apart once you hit 50. Here you can either choose to join operations groups or PvP. I find the PvP side fun, although I'm not excited about how the gearing works, and the lack of content therein. Ilum was promised to be a gradiose version of the Warhammer lakes, but turned into one of the largest failiures to launch I've ever seen. It was plain horrible in the beginning.

 

Operation difficulty is, and this is my opinion, just not difficult enough to hold my interest for long, and even NiM EC the additional mechancis added were pretty pathetic. They even removed the one semi-difficult mechanic in the Vorgath fight.

[maxetius]

So where's the re-review of Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2.

[CosmicKat]

Out of 5 right?

 

Oh out of 10.

 

Yeah that guy is freakin high.

 

They gave http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-12-duke-nukem-forever-review a 3. And guild wars 2 a 9.

 

Say what you will about the rest of the game but the leveling process is hands down the best in any MMO.

 

If by "the best" you mean "the easiest", you are correct.

 

Levelling in TOR is its achilles heel. It is boring, it is simplistic, and the way it has been implemented in TOR is detrimental to the game's longevity. If you want to make an MMO that will endure, your first and most important jobs are to ensure the levelling process is engaging (it's not), challenging (it's far from that), and that is strikes the right balance of being time consuming enough to keep your customers hooked (it doesn't) and is paced well enough to never become a tedious grind (it is actually so simple that it becomes a grind simply because it is so easy).

[Pulpp]

I always hear people (and reviews) complain about end game...which is funny to me. SWTOR has ample end game (for it's age and being a themepark MMO). It's just too bad so much that is core gameplay makes all the content, simply, unfun for most. EAware could add 20+ raids and 20+ WZs next patch and it wouldn't do a thing to really make the end game "better".

 

As much as it makes me shudder to say it, EAware needs it's own "NGE update". They need to get Illum back in there with proper rewards/NPCs/pop balance, realign each planets bonus series hub to overlap between factions in a Outlaw Den type flagged area (do something interesting with it too, like planet wide faction bonuses), remove or revamp the resolve system, completely overhaul the loot tables, toast Expertise and/or minimize it, appoint player reps and a forum for each class, get rid of the petty locks for F2P accounts (UI, emotes, xp/loot reduction, etc), add F2P subforums, expand options for Wz queing (I don't want HB!), etc, etc.

 

I really can't stress this enough, adding more content to the game will probably only improve the game for people who are already happy with the current content...and that doesn't seem to be many people.

[DarthMeerkat]

levelling process is engaging (it's not), .

 

>Implying SWTOR doesn't have the most enjoyable leveling system in all of MMOs

 

In games like WoW and even GW2 you just go from place to place pointlessly killing mobs (In the case of GW2 you might change something about the world but lets face it no one really care at the lower levels). In SWTOR you get to choose responses and while they may not do much in the long run its a very engaging leveling process that allows you to mold an actually character instead of an avatar.

Edited November 28, 2012 by DarthMeerkat

[Revanchis]

Please explain how this game feels singleplayer?

 

Aye, I would love to know how this game could be considered like a singleplayer RPG.

[Apocalypsezero]

All I can say about any reviewer is that their reviews are useless, good or bad. I know what I like and will try something that piques my interest. If I don't like it, I don't play it. SW:tOR for me is a fun game. But don't take my word for it, because I'm not you.

[BadOrb]

If by "the best" you mean "the easiest", you are correct.

 

Levelling in TOR is its achilles heel. It is boring, it is simplistic, and the way it has been implemented in TOR is detrimental to the game's longevity. If you want to make an MMO that will endure, your first and most important jobs are to ensure the levelling process is engaging (it's not), challenging (it's far from that), and that is strikes the right balance of being time consuming enough to keep your customers hooked (it doesn't) and is paced well enough to never become a tedious grind (it is actually so simple that it becomes a grind simply because it is so easy).

 

Try playing in a party of 3 , scoundrel , gunslinger and commando. Do lots of class missions then come back and tell us again how easy it is. Go on do it. The game ramps up the difficulty too much between 2 - 3 player versions of the class missions if your party isn't balanced and you are leveled with the content. Makes me wonder if the class missions are even harder with a group of 4. solo or 2 player the games class missions are pretty easy yes.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

Edited November 28, 2012 by BadOrb

[CosmicKat]

Try playing in a party of 3 , scoundrel , gunslinger and commando. Do lots of class missions then come back and tell us again how easy it is. Go on do it. The game ramps up the difficulty too much between 2 - 3 player versions of the class missions if your party isn't balanced and you are leveled with the content. Makes me wonder if the class missions are even harder with a group of 4. solo or 2 player the games class missions are pretty easy yes.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

 

Class missions don't scale to group size, at least that I've ever seen. Did some of the ending ones on Coruscant with 3 player groups a few days ago. Identical to solo.

 

Heroics are the only place you will find any challenge in the levelling process. A few of them are tougher than others and actually do a decent job of challenging a group. Most are so simple that you can just wait a couple of levels and solo them without much effort.

[CosmicKat]

>Implying SWTOR doesn't have the most enjoyable leveling system in all of MMOs

 

In games like WoW and even GW2 you just go from place to place pointlessly killing mobs (In the case of GW2 you might change something about the world but lets face it no one really care at the lower levels). In SWTOR you get to choose responses and while they may not do much in the long run its a very engaging leveling process that allows you to mold an actually character instead of an avatar.

 

It's exactly the same thing here. The Republic questlines on Taris could be summarized with one NPC at the spaceport who tells you to "Go kill 500 rakghouls and 200 space pirates and then come see me". Instead, they break up those scalp hunts with several NPC's who tell you to "Go kill 50 rakghouls and then come see me". Then they direct you to the next train station where the next NPC surprise, surprise, asks you to go kill some rakghouls.

[Lionflash]

It's exactly the same thing here. The Republic questlines on Taris could be summarized with one NPC at the spaceport who tells you to "Go kill 500 rakghouls and 200 space pirates and then come see me". Instead, they break up those scalp hunts with several NPC's who tell you to "Go kill 50 rakghouls and then come see me". Then they direct you to the next train station where the next NPC surprise, surprise, asks you to go kill some rakghouls.

 

I feel like most of the time those kinda of quests are limited to the bonus objectives. Most of the time it's 'Rescue Doctor Whatever', 'Disable the Aphla Generator', 'Search the Crashsite'. All those kill 0/18 quests are a part of the quest but aren't required.

 

You just also happen to be killing things along the way... it is an MMO after all. I think you are missing his point though...

 

... the quests give context behind the killing. If you aren't interested in the dialogue or choices then it simply isn't for you. They make going to a new area interesting.

[JustTed]

Try playing in a party of 3 , scoundrel , gunslinger and commando. Do lots of class missions then come back and tell us again how easy it is. Go on do it. The game ramps up the difficulty too much between 2 - 3 player versions of the class missions if your party isn't balanced and you are leveled with the content. Makes me wonder if the class missions are even harder with a group of 4. solo or 2 player the games class missions are pretty easy yes.

 

I've leveled five 50s with friends. Class mission do not scale with party size. We rolled over every single one like they weren't even there.

[BadOrb]

Class missions don't scale to group size, at least that I've ever seen. Did some of the ending ones on Coruscant with 3 player groups a few days ago. Identical to solo.

 

Heroics are the only place you will find any challenge in the levelling process. A few of them are tougher than others and actually do a decent job of challenging a group. Most are so simple that you can just wait a couple of levels and solo them without much effort.

 

You obviously haven't grouped up much for class missions then as they do scale to group size iv'e played through the whole game twice within a group of 3 and it is 200% more difficult than with 2 or solo. You get an extra 2-4 gold enemies per mob , yes that's right per mob. o and iv'e also finished the game twice in a group of 2 and it is a lot easier than 3.

 

As for being a level or 2 above then yes that helps but won't help within a party of 3 on class missions that's why i said if you are leveled with the content ( as in same level as the class missions ).

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

[JustTed]

You obviously haven't grouped up much for class missions then as they do scale to group size iv'e played through the whole game twice within a group of 3 and it is 200% more difficult than with 2 or solo.

 

You're simply mistaken.

[BadOrb]

You're simply mistaken.

 

I'm afraid i'm not , try for instance the first space station smuggler mission in the party setup I mentioned , the "honey bunch mission" , basically in class quests you get gold enemies appearing out of the ground and to begin with I didn't have m1-4x and jorgan just couldn't help us at all , we came back later with m1-4x and it was a little easier but still we were stuck on the corner part. The only way we finally managed it is because for some reason some of the 3-4 gold extra mobs didn't respawn after one of our many deaths.

 

Do people actually group up on planets anymore ? People don't seem to know the game they are playing and post comments like the above.

 

Go play the game in a group of 3 and try lots of class missions you will see. Also some H2 missions are actually easier solo than doing class missions in an unbalanced party of 3.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

Edited November 28, 2012 by BadOrb

[JustTed]

I'm afraid i'm not...

 

Yes you are, and here's how you can prove it to yourself (as if the ease of the content with two or more people wasn't enough).

 

Go to a boss fight in a class quest chain. Look at the bosses health. Note how hard he hits you. Note that none of these numbers change when you add more players.

 

It's a fact, not an opinion. You're mistaken, and you can prove it to yourself anytime you'd like.

[CosmicKat]

I'm afraid i'm not , try for instance the first space station smuggler mission in the party setup I mentioned , the "honey bunch mission" , basically in class quests you get gold enemies appearing out of the ground and to begin with I didn't have m1-4x and jorgan just couldn't help us at all , we came back later with m1-4x and it was a little easier but still we were stuck on the corner part. The only way we finally managed it is because for some reason some of the 3-4 gold extra mobs didn't respawn after one of our many deaths.

 

Do people actually group up on planets anymore ? People don't seem to know the game they are playing and post comments like the above.

 

Go play the game in a group of 3 and try lots of class missions you will see. Also some H2 missions are actually easier solo than doing class missions in an unbalanced party of 3.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

 

I wish you were right, but I haven't seen it at all.

 

As I said... I did the Coruscant ending class quests for Knight and Counselor a few days ago. We had a trooper (I think) with the 2 Jedi. Both class' end fights were identical to solo, I know because I have done both solo more than once each.

[BadOrb]

Yes you are, and here's how you can prove it to yourself (as if the ease of the content with two or more people wasn't enough).

 

Go to a boss fight in a class quest chain. Look at the bosses health. Note how hard he hits you. Note that none of these numbers change when you add more players.

 

It's a fact, not an opinion. You're mistaken, and you can prove it to yourself anytime you'd like.

 

O scale as in more health on the bosses right no it doesn't do that , but you do get 3-4 gold mobs on class missions with 3 people , period. I did the smuggler mission solo the other day and guess what ? The gold mobs didn't appear funny that.

 

The word scale was added by someone else , all I said was in a party of 3 there are more mobs on class missions and they are gold mobs.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

Edited November 28, 2012 by BadOrb

[JustTed]

O scale as in more health on the bosses right no it doesn't do that , but you do get 3-4 gold mobs on class missions with 3 people , period.

 

No you don't. The content is all identical. It does not scale.

[BadOrb]

No you don't. The content is all identical. It does not scale.

 

It isn't identical go try again mate. party of 3 try some class quests , we actually had to stop playing in that group off and on because it caused arguments.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

[JustTed]

It isn't identical go try again mate. party of 3 try some class quests , we actually had to stop playing in that group off and on because it caused arguments.

 

Sounds like a bug.

 

Stop saying "cheers" and signing every post with your name. We can see it's you.