[PvP Guide] Wakaworld: Your resource for advanced Sith Assassin/Jedi Shadow strategy!

[Squidkidz]

Here is 23/1/17

 

And 31/1/9

 

Although, my version of 31/1/9 could be a little off.

[Tiggy]

Here is 23/1/17

 

And 31/1/9

 

Although, my version of 31/1/9 could be a little off.

 

Thank you very much The 31/1/9 was pretty much what I thought though I had Thrashing Blades instead of Shroud of Darkness

[PlagaNerezza]

To get Death Field you give up 6-9% AP and voltaic Slash + its 30% damage increase, which is very important for critical hit shocks.

 

I really would advise running 3/31/7. Maul hits harder and will hit for over 5k consistently if you give it 9% AP.

 

Some other Tested PVP Builds Advice:

Lightning charge sucks unless you have deathmarks up. I had no success trying to run a lightning build unless I was 23+ in the madness tree. It just doesn't work.

 

Force and Tech Attacks ignore shields. Meaning only white damage attacks are mitigated by the shield. So if you take a shield all the absorb and shield rating in the world will not stop a Crit chain shock from hitting you. If you are taking one in pvp I strongly advise not using mods or enhancements for those stats unless you are full tank whose not going to be doing any significant dps.

 

Frankly, a tanksin can easily pull 100k protection and function as a tank guarding healers without needing tanking gear. I would never use personally use tank gear. You might consider using a shield now with dps mods/enhancements if you run darkness and use the 1 point to darkward. Prior to 1.4 I would not have advised running a shield.

[Tiggy]

Still leveling my assassin at the moment but planning ahead with gear/builds etc. I'll be some of the time running alongside my other half's new healer so definitely wanting a tank/hybrid tank build. He's relatively new to pvp and healing in general so figured a tanky-type would be a good way of easing him into it. And no I'm not mollycoddling with guard, I still switch it to whoever needs it the most, it just means he's got at least one person in a pug watching his back while he learns the healing ropes. Probably leaning more towards the full tank build than the hybrid but we'll see.

[EatenByDistance]

To get Death Field you give up 6-9% AP and voltaic Slash + its 30% damage increase, which is very important for critical hit shocks.

Death Field makes your burst less predictable. The burst of 31 deception is laughably easy to see coming, as much as pyrotech burst. That's bad. Already discussed this in OP.

 

 

I really would advise running 3/31/7. Maul hits harder and will hit for over 5k consistently if you give it 9% AP.

What? It already crits over 5k consistently. Not against tanks maybe, but 9% armor pen isn't gonna change that.

 

 

Force and Tech Attacks ignore shields. Meaning only white damage attacks are mitigated by the shield. So if you take a shield all the absorb and shield rating in the world will not stop a Crit chain shock from hitting you. If you are taking one in pvp I strongly advise not using mods or enhancements for those stats unless you are full tank whose not going to be doing any significant dps.

If you're implying that you be the tank for your team without using tanking items then you're wrong. There's nothing more to say. It is like trying to DPS without using the appropriate gear.

 

Frankly, a tanksin can easily pull 100k protection and function as a tank guarding healers without needing tanking gear.

Unless it is an extremely drawn out Novare/Civil War (where you'll die too often guarding without the proper gear anyways), no. Also in PvP you don't exclusively guard healers. You guard swap as needed.

Edited November 3, 2012 by EatenByDistance

[VicturusTeSaluto]

So I have been playing the WJ spec for several days now. I am pretty happy with the build so far. I have all of my stats where they should be and things are coming into play.

 

I prefer it over the arika due to better burst and I don't miss the instant whirlwind very much.

 

I really like low slash. Despite the limited range I find it tremendously more useful than instant whirlwind due to the short cd and small amount of resolve. I often hit it when someone pops some sort of damage reduction or right before a marauder is about to die and then I get a big hit on them so they cant enter god mode before death. I also like having darkswell.

 

The ability to burst down a target is great. If I find a solo node defender I will cap the node in about 10 seconds... especially if its a pt or vanguard. Still trying to figure out how to make the most out of the burst as I am not always able to burst down healers. I usually open with death field and then hopefully maul with proc and then use thrash/shock/discharge(hopefully with the proc). I will just maul whenever the proc comes up and if I feel like someone is gaining the upper hand on me I will just use low slash and then some sort of proc usually comes up with it which is nice.

 

I am usually top damage unless there is a good marauder or pt... But then I also did pretty well with damage with my usual spec as well.

 

My usual spec is 23/1/17 but I feel like I really mastered that a long time ago and needed a change. I feel like I did better 1vbads with the 23/1/17 but this is better for 1v1 or 1v2 much of the time.

 

 

also I am thinking about switching to the force mystic pve set(looks like you can now use WH offhand armorings instead of BM armorings?) for the extra 50 force. The idea behind this is that most encounters will be fairly short- with the extra force helping with burst and then I will cloak again before the next fight.

Edited November 4, 2012 by VicturusTeSaluto

[EatenByDistance]

Still trying to figure out how to make the most out of the burst as I am not always able to burst down healers.

Imo nothing other than (pre nerf) DPS operatives/scoundrels are truly capable of bursting a good healer from 100% to dead by themselves in quick fashion. The idea is to keep the healer busy escaping you/healing themselves/needing to be guarded. If they're doing that, you've effectively neutralized them anyways and are doing your job correctly.

 

 

I am thinking about switching to the force mystic pve set(looks like you can now use WH offhand armorings instead of BM armorings?) for the extra 50 force. The idea behind this is that most encounters will be fairly short- with the extra force helping with burst and then I will cloak again before the next fight.

I don't advise this. You really don't need the additional 50 force even in the most extended of encounters. In a 1v1 you shouldn't be expending so much force to really need it in a short period of time. Besides, in a 1v1 you'll either be CCd or kited, and during those cases you won't be expending much/any force anyways. If you're going to use PvE armoring I advise you do so in your wrist/belt slots, as the benefits of Orange pieces are for more than the prestatted WH pieces.

Also, missing out on the extra range of Force Slow/Jolt and most importantly, the shortened cd/additional charge of Recklessness sucks a lot.

Edited November 4, 2012 by EatenByDistance

[BaneOfRoju]

This probably belongs in the PVP section, but here goes...

 

I have a valor 58 shadow that I started playing again. I probably would be a lot higher valor if I actually knew what i was doing. When I play I try to always put the objectives before kills. I've read some things in this thread that I basically don't know how to pull off for sure. For example, procs, do you only know that they are active by watching your bar or is there some other indication that I could focus on? Also, when fighting, is it just knowing what the other abilities are of the class and watching for them as well? I've tried reading/searching but haven't really picked up on anything that discusses that.

 

Thanks

[EatenByDistance]

For example, procs, do you only know that they are active by watching your bar or is there some other indication that I could focus on?

Most procs have some sort of visual indicator (3x Harnessed Darkness there will be this purple stuff that glows in the middle of your character model for example) but they're generally difficult to notice-much less keep track of-in the thick of combat. So I usually just watch the bars of both my target and myself.

 

 

Also, when fighting, is it just knowing what the other abilities are of the class and watching for them as well? I've tried reading/searching but haven't really picked up on anything that discusses that.

As said in the OP, you should learn every ability and proc of every spec of every class. There isn't any cute shortcut-you gotta look it up and memorize what they are/look like in game. Torhead is a good resource for looking up this stuff.

[BaneOfRoju]

Thanks for the quick response and all the information in the guide. I now have some homework to do....

[rmitchell]

ryere has done a very good job of utilizing a darkness-heavy spec with darkswell in the pit.

 

im famous

 

ill say the down fall of the spec is that it is lacking for node guarding etc for rateds as all u basically do is stall till you have a rotater come in to help out, but if u know how to kite as a sin, you will never lose a node.

Edited November 5, 2012 by rmitchell

[Stealios]

Been playing this 'Wakajinn' spec for about a week now and I truly love it.

 

Burst is still really good and 30m deathfield makes interrupting caps easier as well.

Amazing for stealthcapping a node, good for defending and if i do end up in a long skirmish I find i can keep up with most other dps (apart from the lolsmash spec).

 

Not sure what kind of numbers other people are pulling off, but on average my dmg is between 300k-700k with dps between 400-900

[EatenByDistance]

First notable update to guide made. Changelog at bottom of OP for details.

 

Finally got around to making an armory, so here's my gear in all of its pointlessly grindy glory: https://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/5b4fcf47-cbce-4802-93a0-87629819264a

 

 

After I finish up with the myriad of exams I have this week I will be looking to make another large content update. I am considering adding a section on in-depth dueling (since I like dueling way more than warzones anyways). Also would like to do something with videos/stream but internet/hardware limitations may foil that plan.

 

May also be a hypocrite and add some of the "basics" of assassins such as descriptions of each ability/talent and stuff. The resources for that stuff are already out there but for the sake of completion I might do it anyways. We'll see.

 

If there's anything you'd like to see me add to the guide that couldn't be answered in a brief reply please tell me here and I'll consider working it into my second big update.

 

p.s. thanks for all the feedback thus far it is greatly appreciated and motivates me to continue working on this guide

Edited November 5, 2012 by EatenByDistance

[Xethis]

To get Death Field you give up 6-9% AP and voltaic Slash + its 30% damage increase, which is very important for critical hit shocks.

 

I really would advise running 3/31/7. Maul hits harder and will hit for over 5k consistently if you give it 9% AP.

 

9% AP is no where near 30% damage increase, I have no idea where you are getting this from. Our Insulation talent gives us a 30% increase to armor and that only mitigates another 4% damage. 9% armor is barely over 1% damage. Even on the most heavily geared opponents your only looking at 2% damage increase.

[RankorSSGS]

9% AP is no where near 30% damage increase, I have no idea where you are getting this from. Our Insulation talent gives us a 30% increase to armor and that only mitigates another 4% damage. 9% armor is barely over 1% damage. Even on the most heavily geared opponents your only looking at 2% damage increase.

 

I'm pretty sure he meant the 30% boost to shock from 2 Voltaic stacks, which Wakajinn also gives up. But Deathfield is still more than worth it.

[Rynis]

Very nice write up Waka!

 

But don't be giving away too many of our secrets now

[Himeji_Endless]

Wakalord - im a fellow bastion player and ran into you a few times at Outlaw's Den on my shadow ... thanks for writing and sharing and most of all, telling it straight so people can TRY to understand and let go of their sometimes deluded beliefs.

 

I like how you give counters to different AC moves that we're gonna face and talk from an advanced pvp view on what really works and what doesn't as for me, im no where close and its good to know what direction im heading in.

 

i started w/ the 31/0/10 tank build and currently enjoy playing the 23/1/17 hybrid and will give the wakajinn build a try as well. Would you be able to add possibly specific things that medium level Sins/shadows can do to improve their game to get to higher proficiency as far as tactics and group gameplay? I know you covered the build and gear but sometimes little tips and tricks can make the difference in taking a good player and making him into a great one.

[EatenByDistance]

Would you be able to add possibly specific things that medium level Sins/shadows can do to improve their game to get to higher proficiency as far as tactics and group gameplay? I know you covered the build and gear but sometimes little tips and tricks can make the difference in taking a good player and making him into a great one.

Yeah I've had a change of heart and I've decided to elaborate a lot more general tips for playing assassin/pvp in general. Will be fairly in-depth and I'm not done writing the stuff yet but it will definitely be part of the next major update. Don't know how generic I will get with the information as I mainly want this guide to pertain to the assassin AC but if people want it I'll do it.

 

so yeah, will be doing this soon.

[Himeji_Endless]

Ty ty! sometimes im on my sniper Cero when i message you so just a heads up its me

[William_Smith]

Thank you for putting this together. I still need help gearing out but this build suites my style of play so much I have had tons of success with it.

[JP_Legatus]

Possibly bad news (or maybe I'm just noob, but please only back counter-claims with facts).

 

I was going to include background story on my usage of both specs, but I'd rather use the numbers.

 

Using simulationcraft, the DPS (for me in my gear) is about 1300ish in waka spec, and 1270ish in 2-31-8.

However, after looking over the data I realized... SC doesn't even use voltaic slash. Nor does it include the buff to shock.

 

VS has about 1700 damage per use and DF has about 1900 per use, and you can only use DF every 15 seconds whereas you can use shock every 6. VF would be replacing your DF casts when DF is off your bar.

 

After taking these variables into account, it's clear to me that a 30% base damage increase to a skill you'd be using every 4th or 5th GCD that also has a 50% crit damage buff and a chain shock buff would be much better than a skill that is 10%-15% more damaging than voltaic slash being used every 10 GCD's and no crit buff/no chain shock buff when considering single target damage.

 

What does this mean putting it all together? Less single target damage per GCD/second in wakajinn than standard deception.

 

What does this number running NOT include? That death field is an extremely useful skill for other reasons (IE range interrupts on objectives and detecting stealthed enemies in addition to a source of range damage otherwise lacking from deception against kiting foes) and that the utility of DF may warrant taking wakajinn into warzone anyways.

 

Having said that, numbers given. Discuss.

[EatenByDistance]

stop talking about your dps or parsing or whatever it doesn't matter this is pvp not pve Edited November 9, 2012 by EatenByDistance

[iesnbold]

Interesting reading for sure. I haven't played 0/27/14 yet but I will ask Qs about it later. Just wanted to give my feedback on the rampant debate Madness-based builds vs Deception-based build. Now I want to say that beside Wakajin, I've played any other spec and switch from one to another, depending on my mood, who is in the roster today etc. I've played full Madness for a long time, because I was raiding a lot at this time, and didn't wanted to spend 500k/week to respec for WZ.

 

For ideal, long WZ where enemies are not making you sweat, where you're DPS'ing the whole fight without having to do too much to prevent the other team from winning, full Madness is, hands down, the best overall damage spec. But hey, if this WZ is that easy, you could have done less damage and still manage to win. Hell you might have taken a time out to answer the door for the pizza delivery and still have won. If burst damage isn't really good, you're still doing damage when kited, CC'ed, or even focusing another target (thanks discharge spam for refueling my Force 3x faster with DF). But on the really hard games, when timing is key, when you really have to kill someone fast, the spec is not doing good at all. Sure, you'll still have a good number of damage at the end of the WZ, but you didn't really affect the game so much.

 

MM is a bit different. Despite what has been said in this thread, the opening burst is just higher than Deception. You have to waste 2 GCD's putting your dot and get your UK buff, but right after then, it's the orgy. Thanks to your dot always on targets, you have Explosives strikes up 100% on the time, where there is time when you don't have it in Deception, especially when you open without Recklessness. Maul can crit for 7k on anything but tanks. Well, that's not much more than Deception, but your lightning discharge is ticking at the same time, your Crush also, making this GCD really painful. So again under good conditions, MM is better than Deception, even in burst damage.

 

Now, the problem is twofold. Against good players that kite you really well, it's a pain in the *** to play. You spend a lot of time getting in a position to burst and then the kiting game starts. I've duelled with my healer guildie, who is a hybrid bubble stun sorc healer. This was just frustrating. When I was finally in a position to burst, unless I crit my whole rotation, I would still lack a little "humpf" to finish him off, and right then he would stun/root, hide and heal himself close to full health. Then by the time i'm back at close range, my buff/dots were close to expiring. I utterly destroyed him in Deception however, to quote him, he just couldn't do anything to prevent the damage from coming and couldn't heal himself enough while keeping moving. This is especially the case vs stunbubbled healers, where in deception, once you have your 2 stacks for Shock, you can just keep 7-10m between you and him and prevent from being CC'ed by the poping bubble. So basically, two GCDs at 4m, 2GCD at 10m. In MM it's much more irregular, and you cannot control your positioning as much. Also it requires a lot more focus on both your own player bar and your opponent, making it harder to keep up the flow of the game.

[Xethis]

I agree with the statement above. Mad Maul can do more damage, but it is much more difficult to play. With Wakajinn I found I had more time or more focus on the entire battle, I wasn't 100% focused on my rotation the way I was with Mad Maul.

 

One tip I can give though, In the Wakaworld guide it was advised to make sure you had 2x Induction stacks before your first Shock. Since this only decreases the force cost of Shock you don't have to wait for the 2x Induction stacks during your Dark Embrace buff. With 50% increased force regen you can easily afford the 45 force cost of Shock and put your burst even farther in front of your rotation.

 

I open up immediately with DF and then Shock, I then will Discharge even with out any stacks of Static Charges cause its good for 3.4-4k damage with out any stacks. By this time I usually have an Exploit Weakness proc and Maul is available. That is good for 12k-16k damage with out having to Thrash once, that is one hell of an opening rotation.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Xethis

[JP_Legatus]

stop talking about your dps or parsing or whatever it doesn't matter this is pvp not pve

 

Again I agree as I've already stated that death field has great utility and may be worth the loss in dps. However, your guide states more than once that your wakajinn spec has more damage output than standard deception which is misleading and simply isn't the case.