Quraswren Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Please visit the following link: http://www.swtor.com/free There you will see the following: Cartel Coins Cartel Coins can be used for the purchase of great in-game items through the Cartel Market, coming soon! Loyal subscribers can spend their Cartel Coin rewards on items, including: Kowakian Monkey Lizard Pet Get one of these lively little mascots, a favorite of the Hutts. Sith Meditation Throne Harness the Dark Side of the Force™ in the most menacing manner with your own personal Meditation Throne. Lost Helm of Darth Nihilus Strike fear into your enemies’ hearts with this legendary mask from the mysterious Sith Lord who stalked the galaxy in the years after the Jedi Civil War. FALSE ADVERTISING You are not able to purchase any of these items with Cartel Coins. You have to purchase "Packs" which cost 360 Cartel Coins. All of the items ADVERTISED on the SWTOR web site are super rare drops from these "Packs". You can't just go to the Cartel Market and purchase them as advertised right here on SWTOR.com. In fact, the MAJORITY of new "Cartel" items are not for sale directly through the Cartel Market. They are only available through random Cartel Packs. Cartel Coins can NOT, "be used for the purchase of great in-game items through the Cartel Market" as advertised. It's a total and utter SCAM. Talk about NERD RAGE? Wait until people start spending their real life currency to find out they've been scammed. This is not how you treat your, "Loyal Customers". Wow... Well that puts things in perspective doesn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I love the idea of a grab bag. Every example of things that I have seen to come out of them always contained something that was fricken sweet. It's kinda like opening a pack of trading cards and randomly getting a rare one. I dig it. It's only a gamble if you put an expectation on what you are going to get. If you are out for the random rare, it can be a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) We as a community should not stand for this kind of economic bullying and I would be glad to file suit. Dude.... it's a game, not real life, and a voluntary form of entertainment. They cannot bully you on anything economically. The only person that can bully you weconomically in a virtual game environment is yourself (and you have to willingly play the victim role in order to do so. Further, you can only speak for yourself, not others. Stop projecting. Edited October 25, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Actually it's never been tested. The EU recent ruled that legally you owned games (even though what they tried to sell you was a licence for a couple of installs etc. - remember what people try to sell you doesn't make it legal, nor indeed does any random thing in a contract make it legal), so it quite possible they would rule in a similar way with online games when/if it is legally tested. Again though I ask when you by a lottery ticket you are getting a ticket (which is what you buy) that also has a random chance to include access to a lot of cash, so that isn't "gambling" either? Lottery tickets have a random chance at nothing. Boxes always give you something. If you consider this gambling then so is buying any form of cards like baseball cards or magic the gathering. Gambling would also be gumball machines or any machine that gives you toys in those little plastic things. You aren't going to win this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Lottery tickets have a random chance at nothing. Boxes always give you something. If you consider this gambling then so is buying any form of cards like baseball cards or magic the gathering. Gambling would also be gumball machines or any machine that gives you toys in those little plastic things. You aren't going to win this one. I agree. By Goretzu's narrow definition, just about everything in this game is a gamble because you pay a subscription and are guaranteeedf nothing in the form of in game virtual items (other then acual virtual perks included with the box at time of purchase. They don't even guarantee enjoyment of the game, as that is on the player to self deliver. I'm just surprised that Goretzu has not played the Warhammer card in the discussion yet. Edited October 25, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I agree. By Goretsu's narrow definition, just about everything in this game is a gamble because you pay a subscription and are guaranteeedf nothing in the form of in game virtual items (other then acual virtual perks included with the box at time of purchase. It would be like suing BW/EA for loot drops. You go into a HM or Op not knowing for sure if you are going to get the loot that you want or need. You spend a long time in there, don't get your loot, get mad and then labeling that as gambling. It is an absurd notion at best. Edited October 25, 2012 by TheBBP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Slot machines are not all or nothing... yet they are called gambling. Call out EA to give you PRECISE percentages for ALL the possible drops and see for yourself. Do you know what`s funny? They never will. Slot machines can indeed return nothing. Grab bags always return something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Lottery tickets have a random chance at nothing. Boxes always give you something. If you consider this gambling then so is buying any form of cards like baseball cards or magic the gathering. Gambling would also be gumball machines or any machine that gives you toys in those little plastic things. You aren't going to win this one. Grab bags/trading card bags are considered lotteries legally (dispite a lot of people arguing the opposite ), now whether this extends to virtual items yet, I dunno. Dude.... it's a game, not real life Life is a game, it's THE game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I agree. By Goretzu's narrow definition, just about everything in this game is a gamble because you pay a subscription and are guaranteeedf nothing in the form of in game virtual items (other then acual virtual perks included with the box at time of purchase. They don't even guarantee enjoyment of the game, as that is on the player to self deliver. I'm just surprised that Goretzu has not played the Warhammer card in the discussion yet. Grabs bag are classed as "lotteries" (which obviously means the are classes and licensed as "gambling"). When I'm right, I'm right! Read up. (Warhammer Online never had these when I played it, dunno about now) Edited October 25, 2012 by Goretzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Arguing about it it's gambling, legal, or otherwise is a waste of your time. Ultimately you don't get to make that decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 And you know this.. because? Nobody knows the percentages and somehow I doubt EA will EVER show them. It can be 1 or 2 dollars, but it also can be 5000... There is 100% chance that the box will return something. There is a chance that a slot machine will return NOTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Arguing about it it's gambling, legal, or otherwise is a waste of your time. Ultimately you don't get to make that decision. Indeed, it is gambling and a lottery. Now whether it's right or not (assuming electronic grab bags come under the same type of legislation) is another thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Indeed, it is gambling and a lottery. Now whether it's right or not (assuming electronic grab bags come under the same type of legislation) is another thing. You are more than welcome to spend your time and resources in determining the matter. If you believe that these grab bags are illegal, pursue it. Otherwise, all you are doing is arguing for the sake of arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Indeed, it is gambling and a lottery. Now whether it's right or not (assuming electronic grab bags come under the same type of legislation) is another thing. Again that's not something you get to decide. The courts interpret the laws and determine what is and is not when pertaining to the written passed legislation. In some cases judges will take an approach that focus on the 'spirit of the law' others will be more intent on the letter of the law. Until a court decision is handed down (and survives appeal) that states this is the case it is your opinion only that it qualifies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Slot machines can indeed return nothing. Grab bags always return something. And I never questioned their drops. It IS debatable how many you need to buy for a specific drop. As I stated earlier, as an example, if I would want a specific item, it IS gambling, because I buy as many boxes to get it drop. Say I want one invisible chest for one of my nonexistent male avatars = I buy one box and it won`t drop. 0% chance. I buy another. No drop = 0%. I buy a 3rd one and it drops = 33% chance. Amount about 10 euro. It might be also blind luck, because my rolls have been about 33% lucky, not the actual drop rate, which might be lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larity Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Indeed, it is gambling and a lottery. Now whether it's right or not (assuming electronic grab bags come under the same type of legislation) is another thing. Same argument was used against SWG TCG, what happened? They made more. Same thing against Nexon's games, what happened? They made more. Guess what, its not going to change, so cry your rivers of tears, thats all you are going to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 You are more than welcome to spend your time and resources in determining the matter. If you believe that these grab bags are illegal, pursue it. Otherwise, all you are doing is arguing for the sake of arguing. They aren't, they seem to come under "lottery" legislation as "gambling". So yes they are gambling, and yes seemingly they are licensed too (at least the non-electronic ones). Quite a lot of people seem to believe they aren't gambling and aren't anything like a lottery, yet interestingly legally that seems to be exactly what they are classed as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I was trying to agree with a thread you just posted with this comment as the topic. Did they delete it already? This whole thing is insanity. GREEDY Corporations are the problem with our world. Way to deflect blame. Its not the greedy corporations that are the problem its the people that pay them and dont care. If you didnt buy the product then they couldnt be greedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 And I never questioned their drops. It IS debatable how many you need to buy for a specific drop. As I stated earlier, as an example, if I would want a specific item, it IS gambling, because I buy as many boxes to get it drop. Say I want one invisible chest for one of my nonexistent male avatars = I buy one box and it won`t drop. 0% chance. I buy another. No drop = 0%. I buy a 3rd one and it drops = 33% chance. Amount about 10 euro. It might be also blind luck, because my rolls have been about 33% lucky, not the actual drop rate, which might be lower. Setting your own expectations as to what comes out of a grab bag is on you. Nothing anywhere promises what you will get in it. If you are unwilling to accept that then you simply do not participate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 You can stomp your feet and hold your breath all you want on this, but you will still be wrong. Some forms of lottery are gambling, many forms are not, (under any legal definition). Some games of chance fall under the legal definition of gambling, many do not. Your efforts to blurr, confuse, and cloud are wasted on most of us. If you actually think that the corporate lawyers at EA do not review and approve every form of transaction with customers in their products, you are "absentia clue" (as they say in Rome). Now, how about a game of rock/paper/scissors?.... to lighten the topic. Read the legislation on it. Grab bag/trading card game are specifically defined under "Lottery". You're not arguing with me, you're arguing with the Law. You're just plain wrong here, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 They aren't, they seem to come under "lottery" legislation as "gambling". So yes they are gambling, and yes seemingly they are licensed too (at least the non-electronic ones). Quite a lot of people seem to believe they aren't gambling and aren't anything like a lottery, yet interestingly legally that seems to be exactly what they are classed as. Again, you are arguing for the sake of arguing. If you believe that BioWare is in the legal wrong here, pursue it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Again, you are arguing for the sake of arguing. If you believe that BioWare is in the legal wrong here, pursue it. I don't, I did think it would be unlicensed gambling, but apparently it's not, it's classed as a Lottery and licensed as such (at least the non-electronic versions). So the only issue is whether it's morally right to have this sort of gambling in game, legally it's seemingly fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzel Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Lots of debate here... but the bottom line is that we were lied to. The bottom line is that the Cartel Market is not what we expected because it is not what we were told it would be. It's a total scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I don't, I did think it would be unlicensed gambling, but apparently it's not, it's classed as a Lottery and licensed as such (at least the non-electronic versions). So the only issue is whether it's morally right to have this sort of gambling in game, legally it's seemingly fine. LOL. So, now the grab bags are a moral issue? LOL, OK. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Lots of debate here... but the bottom line is that we were lied to. The bottom line is that the Cartel Market is not what we expected because it is not what we were told it would be. It's a total scam. It is what I expected, and I do not feel scammed at all. YOU need to replace the word WE, with I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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