[Guide] Sentinel PvP

[Rankith]

I noted the "least mobile" note on focus. and I think thats wrong. I think combats the worst really.

 

Focus has the +40% after zleap. And its massive trollolol. o f+10 centering after transcendence. Trans is great for pvp focus. While we've all gotten used to using Zen, and its pretty common logic that focus's zen of free aoe slashes are amazing.(and they are.) in pvp that aoe +10% defense is beast. Bear in mind that's dodge/parry, not 10% more armor. And of course the +move. kiting like a boss, for your healers, and even you.

Focus isn't entirely a melee spec. force crush, stasis, blade storm, zleap, even sweep are all 10m skills, crippling throw, dispatch. Force crush slow. Focus can kill another melee class out of melee range, dealing a good 90% of their damage out of the 4m melee range.

The full effect doesn't come into play until late of course. having the points for def forms +centering. +10 centering after transcendence.

between 7% +mit in shi-cho, and 10% defense with transcendence, and 45s cd guarded by the force, focus also has serious defensive potential.

 

Having ranged moves doesn't really make you "mobile". I also didnt throw any points into the transcendence skill, but I end up with lotsa centering anyways. The sprint on ZLeap is definately quite nice too. That said, your right about combat at least, focus is a little more mobile, but the extra 2 immobolize help make up for that.

[MBirkhofer]

yeah, combat has the 2 roots for exactly that reason. it itself is less mobile, and needs to get on top of and stay on top of its targets.

 

I do recommend 45-50 for focus specs to get those points into the +10 centering for trans. its good. Yes, early not so much. before 41, you can't really stray to get def forms. once, you do your centering building goes up alot. This lets you get that first trans going. While trying to pvp pre-def forms, and with poor gear in the first place. you just wont live long enough to ever get 30 centering. But as you get those def cooldowns, and def froms, and better gear, you live long enough to pop it. (valours call don't hurt either). and being able to keep popping it over and over is really strong. The team wide mit it provides is beastly.

It also lets your team kite players, or stop from being kited. its huge.

 

edit:

looking a bit closer. I wasnt really looking closely previously. but in hindsight.

inner focus seems bugged. even now I only have 1 point it in, should be 5 centering after trans. Its clearly giving me 10. and while I was doing a flash point earlier. it seems to have been giving me 20.

 

hmm. 5 per application perhaps? solo would be and kira=10. in a 4 man party, 4x5=20.

Requires more testing.

 

edit2: yeap. dismissed companion to see. only got 5 centering back.

its totally giving 5/10 centering PER party member.

Edited January 2, 2012 by MBirkhofer

[studymuffin]

with your keybound movements how do you turn your character? holding down the mouse button? Also do you mean by top middle quick slot being the normal quick slot and your main moves are on the bottom quick slot so you can see all the cd?

[Ghingis]

I have been trying every specc out now alot in all different warzones with healers etc.

And the strongest specc is by far Watchman, none of the others even come close to it.

 

Not even with the 4.5k crits from Focus.

[Rankith]

By top middle I mean if you didnt rebind the keys, it would be then the 3-7 slots. So you can see all relavent CDs for dps at a glance. And yes, I turn with mouse, im holding right click the majority of the time.

[studymuffin]

alright thanks man ill give that a go. Although due to my crappy graphics card ive had an fps of around 15 so that may make turning with the mouse difficult. I could always swap the strafe keys for the turn keys to make it easier on me. Ill also assume that when you talk about the "main keys" that they go on the top or bottom quick slot so you can watch the cd. Thanks Edited January 2, 2012 by studymuffin

[MBirkhofer]

I was going over this, and I thought of a few things that should be included.

 

Stat use/priority.

 

the value of expertise, the value of accuracy, surge/crit.

End vs str.

 

Also, a clarification on defense.

Frankly this is something I didn't quite have a handle on. I wish they used a different word.

as "defense" refers to the tab, which accounts for health/armor/evasion.

And "defense" also refers specifically to defense chance.

 

This is very important to understand.

Sabreward gives +50% DEFENSE. This means, it gives you 50% chance to evade melee, an ranged attacks. Its not 50% damage reduc. its 50% chance to avoid them entirely.

Force powers, and tech powers, have 100% hit chance however. Blade storm can not be parried.

This is why sabreward also reduces their damage by 25%.

Transcendence also give +10% defense.

Stacking for 65% parry/deflect if you have no skill defense on gear. (help cap)

 

This is where accuracy over 100% has its place. Accuracy over 100% is not armor pen, it is defense pen. counting agaisnt the 5% innate deflect/parry, as well as any +defense skill, such as those two, or tank gear.

[Apocalypse-]

Watchman: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIbRrRMcGzZGhb.1

Most of this is obvious, but a few points to be made. You really only need 1 point in Close Quarters, as using it closer then 5m to your target is a mistake in most situations, a 6s cd on kick should be all the interrupts you need for the most part. However, there are times where it will help you take down a healer. And there isn’t much other choice anyways.

 

Force Fade is also mostly useless since it drops target and you will only be getting hit by aoe. Force Camo is also better used as a gap closer than a defensive CD anyway.

 

One alternative spec to this is if you want Inflammation. It sounds great, but I have found it lack luster in practice. Its only for 6 seconds, and its only for 30%. Pretty much every slow you get put on you is more than 30% so its no good. That said, it can work, so an alternative is to drop a point in Close Quarters and Steadfast from the Combat tree to grab this talent, like so: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIrRrRzcGzZGbb.1 Also one thing I have not been clear on yet (stupid no combat log), is exactly how accuracy works in PvP. If it turns out we don’t need Steadfast, we can grab Stagger from the Focus tree for another second of immobilize on our Force Leap

 

Fairly good guide. Except for this section. Force fade is an amazing talent- most classes have some kind of dot and AoEs are extremely common, it can also be used to walk through Huttball obstacles undamaged. Once you get used to this talent, you really, really notice when it's gone. Accuracy (Steadfast) is not important to Watchman spec, as very little of the main damage source is from your offhand, DW mastery is taken mostly because it's unavoidable on the Path to Defensive Roll. 30% reduced AoE damage is incredible when you consider just how many AoEs there are. Not taking both points in Close Quarters isn't wise (especially if you don't plan on retraiting for every instance of PvE), because at only 12 seconds, Force Leap isn't a cooldown that needs to be excessively guarded. Focused leap and Jedi Crusader are both redundant for a watchman sentinel because you'll be overflowing with focus without either.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIbRrRMfGzZhMM.1

 

This is a much better PvP (and PvE) build for watchman. The one extra point is inconsequential, it can go anywhere, though I typically have it in Insight for the extra 2% crit on dots. Stagger for an extra half second is also worthwhile. The wild card spot for this is Focused Pursuit. It seems very situational, but when you're using Valorous call to get your team a speed boost at the start*, 65% run speed for 10 seconds is not trivial. With it, only way you can't interrupt the capture of Alderaan's far side (East for Republic, west for Imp) is if you're stunned/slowed prior to getting into leap range. None of these 3 traits are all that impressive with only one point, so just use it as your "flavor" of the build.

 

*Use Valorous call with 59 seconds left to round start, or the second paragraph of the Alderaan Narrrator's intro and pop Trancendence at either 1s remaining on Huttball/Voidstar or after 3 steps on Alderaan. It's a medium cooldown but not a core skill, so use it as such. Also try to communicate using this to your Consulars/Inquisitors, so they don't override it with Force Speed, as if they wait for your sprint to drop, they'll be significantly ahead of the enemy team in starting position.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Apocalypse-

[RamzaBehoulve]

With the influx of level 50, you should avoid Focus and Combat like plague until lvl 30+. Use Watchman instead.

[Rankith]

Fairly good guide. Except for this section. Force fade is an amazing talent- most classes have some kind of dot and AoEs are extremely common, it can also be used to walk through Huttball obstacles undamaged. Once you get used to this talent, you really, really notice when it's gone. Accuracy (Steadfast) is not important to Watchman spec, as very little of the main damage source is from your offhand, DW mastery is taken mostly because it's unavoidable on the Path to Defensive Roll. 30% reduced AoE damage is incredible when you consider just how many AoEs there are. Not taking both points in Close Quarters isn't wise (especially if you don't plan on retraiting for every instance of PvE), because at only 12 seconds, Force Leap isn't a cooldown that needs to be excessively guarded. Focused leap and Jedi Crusader are both redundant for a watchman sentinel because you'll be overflowing with focus without either.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIbRrRMfGzZhMM.1

 

This is a much better PvP (and PvE) build for watchman. The one extra point is inconsequential, it can go anywhere, though I typically have it in Insight for the extra 2% crit on dots. Stagger for an extra half second is also worthwhile. The wild card spot for this is Focused Pursuit. It seems very situational, but when you're using Valorous call to get your team a speed boost at the start*, 65% run speed for 10 seconds is not trivial. With it, only way you can't interrupt the capture of Alderaan's far side (East for Republic, west for Imp) is if you're stunned/slowed prior to getting into leap range. None of these 3 traits are all that impressive with only one point, so just use it as your "flavor" of the build.

 

*Use Valorous call with 59 seconds left to round start, or the second paragraph of the Alderaan Narrrator's intro and pop Trancendence at either 1s remaining on Huttball/Voidstar or after 3 steps on Alderaan. It's a medium cooldown but not a core skill, so use it as such. Also try to communicate using this to your Consulars/Inquisitors, so they don't override it with Force Speed, as if they wait for your sprint to drop, they'll be significantly ahead of the enemy team in starting position.

 

First, that spec I listed should definately have defensive forms over dual wield, you are right there, haven't updated that section for a while.

 

Regarding steadfast, do you know what the required mainhand hit percentage is for PvP? Obviously the offhand accuracy is inconsequential, but I still get an occasional attack that doesn't land due to miss/reflect/dodge or what not. If we don't need steadfast than that frees up room for force fade or defensive roll.

 

I completely disagree with not taking the extra 1 focus on force leap. Its a huge difference on target switching or when initiating with a leap as it keeps the focus open for force kick.

 

Force fade would definately be fun for huttball. But it's still useless while carrying the ball and I can't think of a time where I have Force Camo'd and died to dots or something. The best use of it for me is to simply "drop aggro" when im getting focused down hard in pvp to buy time for our healers or waste the enemies time finding a new target. All that said, definately viable choice with those extra points if we don't need steadfast.

 

I also very seriously doubt defensive roll is worth the investment over anything else. What AoE is it that destroying you exactly that gets used all the time in PvP? The main one I can think of is rage specced marauders/juggs using their equivelant of Force Sweep, which is a 9 second cd. So thats 2 points (that could go in force camo or extended immobilize) to mitigate around 800 damage from that skill IF you are playing people that use it. It is 100% required for PvE though, so if you plan to do both alot and don't want to respec all the time then go for this for sure. Respeccing is cheap as hell anyway though and money is sooooooooo easy to make in this game ><.

 

Also, much of what you mentioned is actually covered in there, for example I mention only needing the one point in Close Quarters if you really want to spend them elsewhere, but fall back to having 2 as its mostly required anyway. Same goes for whether or not we take steadfast.

 

You mention taking the point in Insight for more crits on our dots. I don't think our dots count as force attacks however. Dunno though.

[Rankith]

I was going over this, and I thought of a few things that should be included.

 

Stat use/priority.

 

the value of expertise, the value of accuracy, surge/crit.

End vs str.

 

Also, a clarification on defense.

Frankly this is something I didn't quite have a handle on. I wish they used a different word.

as "defense" refers to the tab, which accounts for health/armor/evasion.

And "defense" also refers specifically to defense chance.

 

This is very important to understand.

Sabreward gives +50% DEFENSE. This means, it gives you 50% chance to evade melee, an ranged attacks. Its not 50% damage reduc. its 50% chance to avoid them entirely.

Force powers, and tech powers, have 100% hit chance however. Blade storm can not be parried.

This is why sabreward also reduces their damage by 25%.

Transcendence also give +10% defense.

Stacking for 65% parry/deflect if you have no skill defense on gear. (help cap)

 

This is where accuracy over 100% has its place. Accuracy over 100% is not armor pen, it is defense pen. counting agaisnt the 5% innate deflect/parry, as well as any +defense skill, such as those two, or tank gear.

 

I've been holding off on stat values simply due to the fact that I have no real data to back anything up and can only guestimate on the details of which you want to stack more of. Expertise is the one thing that is obvious though. ~50 expertise is 1% damage boost and damage mitigation, which is easily more than the value you get out of another stat except maybe strength.

 

I'll add details on PvP gear and a gearing section with at least basics sometime soon though.

 

Also, you are correct about how saber ward works. That is confusing and dumb what they did on the char sheet ><

[Apocalypse-]

Regarding steadfast, do you know what the required mainhand hit percentage is for PvP? Obviously the offhand accuracy is inconsequential, but I still get an occasional attack that doesn't land due to miss/reflect/dodge or what not. If we don't need steadfast than that frees up room for force fade or defensive roll.

50 v 50 with 0 accuracy buffs, you have 90% main hand 100% force accuracy. You get accuracy forced on you by multiple pvp gear pieces though. Steadfast is only a possible choice for Ataru with such reliance on offhand strikes. Focus/Watchman should both ignore it.

 

I completely disagree with not taking the extra 1 focus on force leap. Its a huge difference on target switching or when initiating with a leap as it keeps the focus open for force kick.

I've had it in the past, and it doesn't do as much as you think, especially since more often than not Overload/Cauterize give you a free focus every 2-3 globals. Push comes to shove, Force Stasis works as a interrupt if absolutely necessary, though it's rare once a fight starts to not move to the next target with extra focus left.

 

Force fade would definately be fun for huttball. But it's still useless while carrying the ball and I can't think of a time where I have Force Camo'd and died to dots or something. The best use of it for me is to simply "drop aggro" when im getting focused down hard in pvp to buy time for our healers or waste the enemies time finding a new target. All that said, definately viable choice with those extra points if we don't need steadfast.

I undervalued it for the longest. Now I hate not having it. Play with it for a while and you'll see the difference.

 

I also very seriously doubt defensive roll is worth the investment over anything else. What AoE is it that destroying you exactly that gets used all the time in PvP? The main one I can think of is rage specced marauders/juggs using their equivelant of Force Sweep, which is a 9 second cd. So thats 2 points (that could go in force camo or extended immobilize) to mitigate around 800 damage from that skill IF you are playing people that use it. It is 100% required for PvE though, so if you plan to do both alot and don't want to respec all the time then go for this for sure. Respeccing is cheap as hell anyway though and money is sooooooooo easy to make in this game ><.

It's not one single hit that you're mitigating, it's everything adding up- chain lightnings, lightning storms, Death From Above, Force Sweep, Death Fields, ect. And 30% of a 5-6k hit is a bit more than 800... Defensive Roll allows your self healing to keep you a lot higher when you're just taking AoE damage. And ultimately, there isn't better options as it lessens some of the squishy-ness of the class.

 

Also, much of what you mentioned is actually covered in there, for example I mention only needing the one point in Close Quarters if you really want to spend them elsewhere, but fall back to having 2 as its mostly required anyway. Same goes for whether or not we take steadfast.

I don't see Close Quarters as optional for any build, as there isn't a better use of the point for it low enough in a tree to still get Merciless.

 

You mention taking the point in Insight for more crits on our dots. I don't think our dots count as force attacks however. Dunno though.

Overload saber is explicitly labeled as a Force ability. Cauterize I'm not sure of, as I do remember it used to proc Ataru attacks off the dot a few builds back suggesting a melee dot. It also helps with Dispatch crits, which is the 2nd hardest critting ability available to sentinels after Focus-spec Sweep. Granted it never hits for full effective, but I'd rather do overkill than miss a kill.

[Rankith]

50 v 50 with 0 accuracy buffs, you have 90% main hand 100% force accuracy. You get accuracy forced on you by multiple pvp gear pieces though. Steadfast is only a possible choice for Ataru with such reliance on offhand strikes. Focus/Watchman should both ignore it.

Again i've just not seen any definitive answer here, so Ill assume you know whats up thanks for the info.

I've had it in the past, and it doesn't do as much as you think, especially since more often than not Overload/Cauterize give you a free focus every 2-3 globals. Push comes to shove, Force Stasis works as a interrupt if absolutely necessary, though it's rare once a fight starts to not move to the next target with extra focus left.

Usually you do have extra focus, however Its just so useful when a new fight starts up and you have no focus, it allows you to force leap and interrupt while putting up OS and still instantly kick their next one.

I undervalued it for the longest. Now I hate not having it. Play with it for a while and you'll see the difference.

I'll give it a go next time, I only played with it in my leveling spec and that was admitedly not very much.

It's not one single hit that you're mitigating, it's everything adding up- chain lightnings, lightning storms, Death From Above, Force Sweep, Death Fields, ect. And 30% of a 5-6k hit is a bit more than 800... Defensive Roll allows your self healing to keep you a lot higher when you're just taking AoE damage. And ultimately, there isn't better options as it lessens some of the squishy-ness of the class.

This is true. I still just don't see aoe flying around all that often in the games I play. However, since we aren't going to get steadfast anymore this is definately nice to take as it is still damage mitigation, even if it ends up being very little.

Overload saber is explicitly labeled as a Force ability. Cauterize I'm not sure of, as I do remember it used to proc Ataru attacks off the dot a few builds back suggesting a melee dot. It also helps with Dispatch crits, which is the 2nd hardest critting ability available to sentinels after Focus-spec Sweep. Granted it never hits for full effective, but I'd rather do overkill than miss a kill.

Yeah I'm not sure on Cauterize at all.

 

Thanks very much for the discussion.

[studymuffin]

My sentinel is my first melee character in any mmo, is it just me or is it quite difficult to hit people while they move when your trying to hit a shift key lol. Also I know its not the point of the game but how much damage do you have dealt on average at the end Edited January 3, 2012 by studymuffin

[Spideyknight]

Would two points give you 10 per party member? If so that's ridiculous and is worth exploiting till it gets fixed as that is 100% uptime on trans.

 

As for focus, ignoring the trans thing if you want to play focus, guardian is better. You can go defensive and sit in soresu and watch as the medals flow in or go offensive and see huge numbers. Sent focus won't see those numbers.

[EasymodeX]

Also I know its not the point of the game but how much damage do you have dealt on average at the end

 

250-300k on average solo queue.

 

If you're a lowbie playing against people with expertise gear, then drop that number by 40-50k.

[Csdabest]

I like. Imma compare notes with what I do. The only thing I wish is that we had a longer Camo and that we can use Pommel, and Opportune strike in pvp. Good read though

[MBirkhofer]

damage numbers are completely nonsense.

I never break 200k. Often don't even break 100k.

And I'm focus landing 4k aoe sweeps.

 

Don't get +damage running the huttball, using trans, sabreward, gaurded by the force, pacify, rebuke to be unkillable.

KILLING/interrupting healers instead of spamming attacks while they get chain healed, also doesn't give +damage. Deal 15000 damage and kill them instead of 30000 and not.

Assist train deal 5000 damage and get a kill is even better.

Edited January 3, 2012 by MBirkhofer

[MBirkhofer]

Overload saber is explicitly labeled as a Force ability. Cauterize I'm not sure of, as I do remember it used to proc Ataru attacks off the dot a few builds back suggesting a melee dot. It also helps with Dispatch crits, which is the 2nd hardest critting ability available to sentinels after Focus-spec Sweep. Granted it never hits for full effective, but I'd rather do overkill than miss a kill.

"Charges your lightsabers with deadly energy for 15 seconds, causing your next 3 successful melee attacks to make the target burn for

330

elemental damage over 6 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds."

 

I don't see anything that implies its a "force ability" at all.

Also, neither is dispatch.

Edited January 3, 2012 by MBirkhofer

[EasymodeX]

I don't see anything that implies its a "force ability" at all.

 

It's a force ability because it's not a weapon damage ability; it scales off Force Power.

 

Also because it's yellow damage.

 

IIRC the Cauterize DOT was force power and the direct damage was a melee attack.

 

Checking:

 

LvL Trained MH? OH? Ticks Damage Type

Force Charge 9 Min 49 1 0 1 Melee

Force Charge 9 Max 49 1 0 1 Melee

Smash 8 Min 50 0 0 1 Force

Smash 8 Max 50 0 0 1 Force

Vicious Slash 10 Min 50 1 1 1 Melee

Vicious Slash 10 Max 50 1 1 1 Melee

Force Scream 8 Min 50 0 0 1 Force

Force Scream 8 Max 50 0 0 1 Force

Retaliation 8 Min 50 1 1 1 Melee

Retaliation 8 Max 50 1 1 1 Melee

Ravage 7 Min 1 50 1 1 2 Melee

Ravage 7 Min 2 50 1 1 2 Melee

Ravage 7 Max 1 50 1 1 1 Melee

Ravage 7 Max 2 50 1 1 1 Melee

Assault Min 1 1 1 3 Melee

Assault Max 1 1 1 3 Melee

Battering Assault 7 Min 50 1 1 2 Melee

Battering Assault 7 Max 50 1 1 2 Melee

Force Choke 4 50 0 0 3 Force

Sweeping Slash 3 Min 50 1 1 1 Melee

Sweeping Slash 3 Max 50 1 1 1 Melee

Rupture 5 Min 50 1 0 1 Melee

Rupture 5 Max 50 1 0 1 Melee

Rupture 5 DoT 50 0 0 6 Force

Vicious Throw 2 Min 50 1 0 1 Melee

Vicious Throw 2 Max 50 1 0 1 Melee

Crippling Slash 4 Min 48 1 1 1 Melee

Crippling Slash 4 Max 48 1 1 1 Melee

Force Crush DoT 40 0 0 5 Force

Force Crush End 40 0 0 1 Force

Annihilate Min 40 1 1 1 Melee

Annihilate Max 40 1 1 1 Melee

Deadly Saber 20 0 0 2 Force

Ataru Form 20 0 0 1 Force

Gore Min 30 1 1 1 Melee

Gore Max 30 1 1 1 Melee

Obliterate Min 20 1 0 1 Melee

Obliterate Max 20 1 0 1 Melee

Massacre 40 1 1 1 Melee

Massacre 40 1 1 1 Melee

Wounding Throw 4 Min 49 1 0 1 Melee

Wounding Throw 4 Max 49 1 0 1 Melee

 

 

Force Sweep, Blade Storm, Stasis, Cauterize DOT, Exhaustion, Overcharge Saber, Ataru Form = force powers.

[studymuffin]

250-300k on average solo queue.

 

If you're a lowbie playing against people with expertise gear, then drop that number by 40-50k.

 

im level 24 and as i stated this is my first melee character, but i cant seem to get more than 75k, i play the objective and sometimes i end up sitting there out of combat for long periods of time but still, I think like i said i just have a hard time hitting the moving targets

[MBirkhofer]

I'm focus speced.

Overload saber and cauterize are NOT effected by -3s cd in shii cho.

 

I did go test. the burns ARE effected by focused resonance +30% crit damage.

I suspect then yes, burns are effected by insight.

 

(also, totally adding cauterize to my focus rotation.)

 

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIMRZZGbRbdrMkG.1

lol?

Need to see if gravity effects slowing cauterize. Quick build. probably some points to move around. but lol at +60% crit damage. And +21% crit chance.

Edited January 3, 2012 by MBirkhofer

[EasymodeX]

Yeah, the ShiiCho talent for -cooldown seems to be incorrect on the tooltip. Seems to be the only talent that says "FORCE ABILITIES", when it really means only uh, Blade Storm and the Focus31 (Exhaustion?).

 

Everything else appears to work as expected, although the 6% crit to force powers is difficult to test.

 

Edit: I suspect they found out that it reduced the cooldown on Force Sweep and re-coded it to highlight specific abilities, but then forgot that Overcharge Saber was also a force power. That or they intentionally left it out. Dunno why though since that would be an awkward Focus build.

Edited January 3, 2012 by EasymodeX

[Apocalypse-]

"Charges your lightsabers with deadly energy for 15 seconds, causing your next 3 successful melee attacks to make the target burn for

330

elemental damage over 6 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds."

 

I don't see anything that implies its a "force ability" at all.

Also, neither is dispatch.

 

Press 'P'. They're both labeled as Force attacks. Every one of our attacks is either Melee or Force.

[Sinkaro]

Can we get this stickied?