Muwarr Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 It's not really a 2 way street as it is. They don't come into the forums and ask you what they should start working on for 1.7. Your feedback is useful to a point but not as an individual. Not to worry though there will be plenty of people here that have useful things to say even if it's pointless to be to be a single voice among many. Except in the customer service forum. Individual issues are addressed there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Except in the customer service forum. Individual issues are addressed there. OK give them access to CSF ONLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Except in the customer service forum. Individual issues are addressed there. Correct but that's not what's being disputed here. Open up that forum to everyone (even non customers) and it won't be useful whatsoever to what you are trying to accomplish anyway unless it's well hidden on the board. Think of general discussion gone wild with extreme lack of moderators. Somehow without having the 'feedback' of non subscribers on overall game issues the quality of the game will be lacking from this persons POV which is completely ridiculous. Edited October 17, 2012 by Tim-ONeil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muwarr Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Correct but that's not what's being disputed here. Open up that forum to everyone (even non customers) and it won't be useful whatsoever to what you are trying to accomplish anyway unless it's well hidden on the board. Think of general discussion gone wild with extreme lack of moderators. Somehow without having the 'feedback' of non subscribers on overall game issues the quality of the game will be lacking from this persons POV which is completely ridiculous. I think you may want to re-read my posts to understand what I am trying to accomplish. I don't think the insultingly bad in-game CS system will be sufficient for the paying customers in the F2P system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think you may want to re-read my posts to understand what I am trying to accomplish. I don't think the insultingly bad in-game CS system will be sufficient for the paying customers in the F2P system. I get it completely. You have a valid point but I can see that being added to the grid. Forum based customer service requires a subscription or something along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macabrae Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Yeah i know that but you shouldn't have to pay cartel coins to unlock abilities, thats pretty much game breaking. Game Breaking? LMAO.... exaggerate much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muwarr Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I get it completely. You have a valid point but I can see that being added to the grid. Forum based customer service requires a subscription or something along those lines. Many of the non-subscribers will also be paying customers. Should they have to pay a separate fee to have bugs addressed with something other than the automated "Your problem has been noted. Watch future patch notes. Your ticket has been closed" in game system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I SUPPORT the change! I think it's an excellent approach to keep it fair to those that SUB and maybe offer a little bit more. They are GIVING AWAY the best and most expensive content of the game (Voice over Stories). I don't PVP any, but those in my guild do and they run those non-stop. I think 3 PVP a week is a tad low to get a taste for that venue of the game. Maybe two a day or 10 a week is more likely to get some use. (For those TBD on being PVP only players). Meanwhile, I'm on the fence as to keeping a SUB or going F2P with just the OP's. (If SUB's get unlocked from 1 a week then I'd keep my SUB for sure). This is all going to depend on how much it's going to cost and what my real end game experience is going to be like. Until the prices are announced it's really a wait and see type event. SUGGESTION: SUB's can purchase an UNLOCK for a single OP (So we can run them more than once a week)! That would be a CASH COW for BW/EA. I do like the "Pay for what you want" approach by BW, but cautious to count the cost in coins vs. keeping a SUB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Many of the non-subscribers will also be paying customers. Should they have to pay a separate fee to have bugs addressed with something other than the automated "Your problem has been noted. Watch future patch notes. Your ticket has been closed" in game system? What bugs are you specifically going to be able to find that no one else in a sea of 500k people are not able to do so? If you mean you are having computer issues which could require individualized attention that's different but your last post changed my mind on your request. Bugs are tracked in separate software based on bug reports generated from those in game tickets. The forums really don't contribute much to that. Sorry if you feel that a developer should personally respond to your tickets. That's not reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muwarr Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 What bugs are you specifically going to be able to find that no one else in a sea of 500k people are not able to do so? If you mean you are having computer issues which could require individualized attention that's different but your last post changed my mind on your request. Bugs are tracked in separate software based on bug reports generated from those in game tickets. The forums really don't contribute much to that. Sorry if you feel that a developer should personally respond to your tickets. That's not reality. I guess I believe in a higher minimum level of customer service if you do. I don't think it should be acceptable to people if they have a problem with an element of the game they paid for to be fobbed off with nothing more than an automated e-mail with no follow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I guess I believe in a higher minimum level of customer service if you do. I don't think it should be acceptable to people if they have a problem with an element of the game they paid for to be fobbed off with nothing more than an automated e-mail with no follow up. I worked in customer service throughout college and afterwards ran my own small custom PC company and I can tell you with 100% certainly that people believe they are entitled to more of anything than they actually are especially customer service. The closest thing you'll get to a personalized response is on the dev tracker when a community team member acknowledges a bug or on their official known issues thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muwarr Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I worked in customer service throughout college and afterwards ran my own small custom PC company and I can tell you with 100% certainly that people believe they are entitled to more of anything than they actually are especially customer service. The closest thing you'll get to a personalized response is on the dev tracker when a community team member acknowledges a bug or on their official known issues thread. If that level of service is acceptable to you, great. I'm sure you will be a paying customer for a long time. How long the guy who ends up not being able to use something he paid for or get the issue acknowledged will be around to keep playing is another question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 If that level of service is acceptable to you, great. I'm sure you will be a paying customer for a long time. How long the guy who ends up not being able to use something he paid for or get the issue acknowledged will be around to keep playing is another question. Again what is it that you want? A personalized response from a developer that they are looking into it? I agree for an individual PC issue that perhaps you have to post a dxdiag log that you should have access to that forum. Other than that... I don't see the validity of the request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) I'm against flat rate permanent game unlocks. That is unfair to me as a paying subscriber. And your whole flippant "then don't pay per month" is exactly my point - your flat rate permanent unlock would destroy the subscription system entirely. Bioware would instantly lose a substantial amount of revenue - enough that they would likely have to shutter the game. That's not the purpose of F2P - the purpose is to make ADDITIONAL revenue, not destroy one revenue system and replace some of the money with a different one. I don't know. Your obviously passionate about this, but I have to point out that history and evidence just doesn't back up your claims. History has shown, time and time again, that not only does cash unlocks promote subs (people seem to decided they are paying so much they might as well sub) it is a boon for the game itself, providing desperately needed capital for development (RoR for LotRO is an example of an expansion funded almost entirely from F2P profits, at least according to Turbine). So, once again, though I understand your point, I think your being a bit brutal with your opinion and it's desired end result, which is a F2P system that will not only be different than almost every successful F2P system on the market, but will in fact have little to no impact on increasing subs or profits for the game developers. Temporary unlocks do not generate the kind of cash and subs that permanent but expensive ones do, period. When you add up all of the costs to unlock features players enjoy for free you start getting into the 150 to 200 dollar range. It makes more sense, at least it seems that way based on evidence from games that have that type of system in place, to just sub. Those that unlock one or two items would probably NEVER sub. They are also not likely to keep playing if they have to keep paying in set intervals for non-consumable items. Edited October 17, 2012 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muwarr Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Again what is it that you want? A personalized response from a developer that they are looking into it? I agree for an individual PC issue that perhaps you have to post a dxdiag log that you should have access to that forum. Other than that... I don't see the validity of the request. If I buy something from the Cartel store and it say, doesn't appear, or it doesn't function correctly, is the In-game automated and close "watch for patch notes" response acceptable to you? I think the customer should at least have access to an alternate means of customer service communications like the forum to try and get a timely response to game issues. It's in EAs own interest to address issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 If I buy something from the Cartel store and it say, doesn't appear, or it doesn't function correctly, is the In-game automated and close "watch for patch notes" response acceptable to you? I think the customer should at least have access to an alternate means of customer service communications like the forum to try and get a timely response to game issues. It's in EAs own interest to address issues. Well there is this: Contact Us By Phone For help with account issues, technical support, or if you require further assistance with Star Wars™: The Old Republic™, you can contact us via the following toll-free phone numbers: USA, Canada: 1-855-GO-SWTOR (1-855-467-9867) UK, Germany, France: 00800 0246 9273 (008000 BIOWARE) Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong and Singapore: +800 0246 9273 (+8000 BIOWARE) For calls originating from countries not listed above, please call the following number: +442035642555 * using a landline or mobile phone, or 1-855-GO-SWTOR (1-855-467-9867) using your VoIP service (such as Skype, Viber, Google Voice etc.). If your country is not mentioned above, please visit our Help Center telephone article, which contains a complete list of contact numbers for all supported countries. * Please replace the + in front with the international call prefix in your country! Please note that you may be charged by your provider for making an international phone call, and charges may be based on the country from which you place the call. Customer support will be provided in English, French, and German only. I think that's probably more appropriate if you have an issue that needs an immediate personalized response eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muwarr Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Well there is this: Contact Us By Phone For help with account issues, technical support, or if you require further assistance with Star Wars™: The Old Republic™, you can contact us via the following toll-free phone numbers: USA, Canada: 1-855-GO-SWTOR (1-855-467-9867) UK, Germany, France: 00800 0246 9273 (008000 BIOWARE) Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong and Singapore: +800 0246 9273 (+8000 BIOWARE) For calls originating from countries not listed above, please call the following number: +442035642555 * using a landline or mobile phone, or 1-855-GO-SWTOR (1-855-467-9867) using your VoIP service (such as Skype, Viber, Google Voice etc.). If your country is not mentioned above, please visit our Help Center telephone article, which contains a complete list of contact numbers for all supported countries. * Please replace the + in front with the international call prefix in your country! Please note that you may be charged by your provider for making an international phone call, and charges may be based on the country from which you place the call. Customer support will be provided in English, French, and German only. I think that's probably more appropriate if you have an issue that needs an immediate personalized response eh? I guess we disagree. You think the current level of customer service, as is, without access to the forums is perfectly acceptable. I do not. We will see what the F2P customer base decides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 In game ticket submission is the way to go then. Like it is today. Forums don't seem to get too much BW attention today and I seem to think that has something to do with people using it today don't have to be Sub'd to use. That said... you can ALWAYS log a ticket via Support@swtor.com as well I'm sure. (Email is not locked out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I guess we disagree. You think the current level of customer service, as is, without access to the forums is perfectly acceptable. I do not. We will see what the F2P customer base decides. They will probably base their decisions on the game on whether or not they enjoy the game itself. If posting on the customer service forum is an important part of their game play I also predict they will subscribe to do so or quit trying to make up reasons why they need access to it. It's available to you, everyone has their shinny bobble that compels them to do something. Mine will be sweet looking armor that gets me to purchase it, looks like yours will be the ability to post in the CSR forum that makes you sub. Bioware caters to all tastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 They will probably base their decisions on the game on whether or not they enjoy the game itself. If posting on the customer service forum is an important part of their game play I also predict they will subscribe to do so or quit trying to make up reasons why they need access to it. It's available to you, everyone has their shinny bobble that compels them to do something. Mine will be sweet looking armor that gets me to purchase it, looks like yours will be the ability to post in the CSR forum that makes you sub. Bioware caters to all tastes. This game seems to have quite a few issues from time to time. I can't say for sure (naturally) but one thinks not allowing F2P folks somewhere to post in the forum might be bad for business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) This game seems to have quite a few issues from time to time. I can't say for sure (naturally) but one thinks not allowing F2P folks somewhere to post in the forum might be bad for business. Oh I can totally see that. Lack of forum options sends F2P'ers into a silent rage. Get it? What can we complain about next? We've stopped complaining about the game itself and started to focus on the subscription model. That's progress I guess. Now people are saying but I like this game and wanted to play it for free! No fair! What should we focus on next week? /sarcasm If posting here is really important to you your $15 per month is important to Bioware. Even if you never play the game I'm sure you can find $15 worth of entertainment here. The game is practically free then. I paid $15 dollars per month for this forum and I even got a AAA MMO included. That's a heck of a deal. Edited October 17, 2012 by Tim-ONeil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) This game seems to have quite a few issues from time to time. I can't say for sure (naturally) but one thinks not allowing F2P folks somewhere to post in the forum might be bad for business. If they allowed F2P players to post in the forums it would be full of Trolls, people can create a new account and troll away all day long since it doesn't cost them anything, they get banned from the forums? No problem create another new account... It won't work, Bioware is being smart not allowing F2P in the forums... What the hell do people want for Free?!? Maybe Bioware can add a Week Forum Pass they can buy with their cartel coins Edited October 17, 2012 by Monoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldin Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Regarding forums access, it's pretty simple. Give completely F2P players access to a special Free forum. Anyone that's actually paid for content or has had a subscription should get full access. That keeps out the "trolls". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 If they allowed F2P players to post in the forums it would be full of Trolls, people can create a new account and troll away all day long since it doesn't cost them anything, they get banned from the forums? No problem create another new account... It won't work, Bioware is being smart not allowing F2P in the forums... What the hell do people want for Free?!? Maybe Bioware can add a Week Forum Pass they can buy with their cartel coins In a specific forum. Specific only for F2P access. That way they have a place to post and ask questions, communicate with the community and Bioware without polluting the rest of the forum. I also suggested that they have to pay a fee to unlock the ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Regarding forums access, it's pretty simple. Give completely F2P players access to a special Free forum. Anyone that's actually paid for content or has had a subscription should get full access. That keeps out the "trolls". This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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