Stupid F2P Restrictions

[Faladis]

Alas I suggest we leave it up to the expects at EA/Bioware and wait and see. If there is anything people give EA credit for it's finding a way to milk subscribers for profit. That's not evil though, that's good business though many people won't agree with that statement.

 

No, that's not a good business model. Milking subscribers is a short-term profit model with no longevity. It will end with a few dedicated subscribers staying, but the majority leaving and taking with them the revenue needed to keep the servers running.

 

Tim, if you truly haven't ever heard of League of Legends, as has been posted before, you really should look at their F2P model. It works brilliantly and would be more than profitable for Bioware and EA. At the same time, take a look at other F2P models like Spiral Knights, Mabinogi, and Vindictus. You can use the in-games currency to buy additional cosmetic content or purchase it. None of the above listed F2P games limit game mechanics or quality of play, requiring you to purchase them. The closest thing to a limitation is that in Mabinogi you have to buy a mount or pet with NX, which you can't get through the game. Other than that though, the game can be played as normal. These microtransactions are the proper way to implement a F2P model for a game.

 

Also, please quit saying that all the F2P arguments are just "I want the subs to pay for my game that I get for free!" or that the arguments are illogical. You've beaten that horse dead to the point where it's now a pulpy, rotting mush. We get your point, several posters both agree and disagree with that point, but now you are coming off more like a jerk than a valid debater.

[Tim-ONeil]

No, that's not a good business model. Milking subscribers is a short-term profit model with no longevity. It will end with a few dedicated subscribers staying, but the majority leaving and taking with them the revenue needed to keep the servers running.

 

Tim, if you truly haven't ever heard of League of Legends, as has been posted before, you really should look at their F2P model. It works brilliantly and would be more than profitable for Bioware and EA. At the same time, take a look at other F2P models like Spiral Knights, Mabinogi, and Vindictus. You can use the in-games currency to buy additional cosmetic content or purchase it. None of the above listed F2P games limit game mechanics or quality of play, requiring you to purchase them. The closest thing to a limitation is that in Mabinogi you have to buy a mount or pet with NX, which you can't get through the game. Other than that though, the game can be played as normal. These microtransactions are the proper way to implement a F2P model for a game.

 

Also, please quit saying that all the F2P arguments are just "I want the subs to pay for my game that I get for free!" or that the arguments are illogical. You've beaten that horse dead to the point where it's now a pulpy, rotting mush. We get your point, several posters both agree and disagree with that point, but now you are coming off more like a jerk than a valid debater.

 

I really haven't heard of it. It's not my style but from what I read today that model hasn't been adopted by any of the free to play MMO's. Subscription (with a F2P portion) is still the revenue generator and it's hard to argue against it. Even at the low end 500k subs is 7.5 Million dollars gross per month and 90 million dollars gross per year. You don't walk away from that model when you direct competition uses it successfully.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Tim-ONeil

[amerciasmexican]

The F2P restrictions are pretty fair in all honesty the one thing i would have to say i don't like is the 3 Warzones and flashpoints per week considering thats all you can really do when you hit 50 and soon to be 60

[ZirusZero]

The only real objection is the 3 WZs per week thing. Otherwise, stop whining and sub.

[XeSora]

I guess it must just be my server or something, because Que times for Wz's and Fp's are like crawling in slow motion. Wz may pop at 50 for in like what? 5-10minutes? I totally forget about it after a while, heck, even when a blue moon decides to show itself and i want to do a FP (who am i kidding i love FP's but the ques are completely insane) Honestly, id like them to just give them a bit more of a limit on Wz's and Fp's just enough to say that the Que times in the servers now raise instead of them being stupid dead as they are now. Just my 2 cents, idc about what they restrict to F2P players, i just want better Que times. Chop off their legs for all i care, but make them drag themselves into those Wz's and FP's enough to where i can get some good fun out of them.

[Faladis]

I really haven't heard of it. It's not my style but from what I read today that model hasn't be adopted by any of the free to play MMO's. Subscription (with a F2P portion) is still the revenue generator and it's hard to argue against it. Even at the low end 500k subs is 7.5 Million dollars gross per month and 90 million dollars gross per year. You don't walk away from that model when you direct competition uses it successfully.

 

No, you don't walk away from it, instead you walk into it with some higher stepping stones. Let's look at some theoreticals here: Say Bioware changed up it's F2P subscription to incorporate 2x gain of XP, Credits, Valor, and Commendations. Let's also say that they cut Legacy item pricing in half for subs and gave subs 1 additional cargo bay that was available across faction and to all characters on a server(as well as the full 12 character roster). Let's also say that Subs got preferential pick in Flashpoint and WZ queues as well as a few other minor perks. Now, that would entice me to sub(if it were possible, you are fully aware of my situation) and I believe it would also be fair to the players that are subbed already. That may actually BOOST subs, a scary thought, no?

 

So what about the free players? Easy, give them the game as it were to subs. Don't limit game quality, but instead limit end-game content. One OP queue a week per account and the licensing on epics/purples is quite understandable I do imagine. Now raises the question about Cartel Coins, what to do about them? Simple, add cosmetic and little gimmick props(like the party Jawa for instance) and convenience items like a field-set modification table, field-transit beacon - GPS arrow for finding your friends(I'd totally take a sassy Dromund Kaas female voice for directions), and a field repair kit to fix one item's durability(out of combat, not in WZ). Priced moderately enough, these items could provide an additional income bonus alongside the subs and revitalize the game as well as make BW and EA the oodles of cash they so desire.

[RikHar]

@OP

 

You said the public will go crazy upset over some of the restrictions. Remember this, they are not paying a cent to play. Game can and will do whatever they like, when it's free, you can't say or do a thing!

[Coldin]

@OP

 

You said the public will go crazy upset over some of the restrictions. Remember this, they are not paying a cent to play. Game can and will do whatever they like, when it's free, you can't say or do a thing!

 

They can do one very important thing.

 

They leave. They don't pay for a subscription or buy any cartel coins.

 

And that's way more powerful than any whining or moaning from either side.

[Tim-ONeil]

They can do one very important thing.

 

They leave. They don't pay for a subscription or buy any cartel coins.

 

And that's way more powerful than any whining or moaning from either side.

 

What group of gamers are you talking about? I can see two possibilities.

 

1.) New SWTOR gamers that never paid anything ever for this game and are taking a free stab at it? Any of those members that decide to subscribe is bonus revenue and the whole point of offering the limited experience. I suspect the turn over rate might be high in those games with people rotating through several different games at a time but since none of the companies release their internal retention numbers once a game goes F2P so we can only speculate on it. Your own POV will effect this made up number naturally.

 

2.) Current subscribers that intend to drop their subs and play with F2P restrictions- or not at all. Nothing else you can say but good bye. F2P doesn't effect them as a current subscriber but it's as good of an excuse to quit a game you like if you need to make that justification. I mean after all if they are leaving because they don't like the game itself F2P should have no bearing on that decision, right?

[Tim-ONeil]

As Urael said earlier, I'm sure we have a lot more we agree upon than what we don't. Where I think we may differ is that I think you may resign yourself to acceptance, while I tend to push for change. Perhaps your way is better...but my way gives me hope.

 

I've been really active today because I am way ahead on my project I'm working on. I usually don't have time to post this much so I'm sure I'm getting on everyone's nerves. I close my eyes and all I see are flow charts so it's a needed distraction.

 

You are definitely right. I preach acceptance because the opposite of that is disappointment. Disappointment claims subs all the time because of our own ideals of what the game should be won't allow us to enjoy the game that is. Clearly this discussion has further reinforced the idea that there is no perfect game and apparently there is no perfect subscription model either.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Tim-ONeil

[Maviarab]

One cannot please all of the people all of the time Tim as they say, and if one tries, one ends up pleasing no one.

[jeardawg]

Every time I hear about free to play I hear the old Curtis Mayfield song in my head, "I'm Your Pusher."

Drug dealers almost always give the first dose for free...

 

Then your hooked, think of SWTOR's free to play model as the drug dealer approach to gaming

at least they hope

Edited October 18, 2012 by jeardawg

[Goretzu]

The whole point of this f2p model is too attract people into subbing after they have tried and liekd the game. Its that simple really. So why should they give away things that are obvious too paying subscribers to the f2p people? No, keep the restrictions as they are and let people decide if they wanna sub or not., if they dont want to sub, then fine, have the restrictions.

 

It's not (although it can be).

 

The whole point of F2P is to incentivize the Cashshop to the point the average player spends an average of $15 a month on it.

 

Subbing is just a bonus.

[chaosmadness]

Its simple really. If you want to keep playing the game, keep subbing.

 

If your still a subscriber when the game goes F2P, nothing will change for you. The game goes on as it always has before.

 

Exactly.

The f2p model gives good stuff to players. This model and the cartel coins looks very cool, works pretty good for casual players.

[Urael]

One cannot please all of the people all of the time Tim as they say, and if one tries, one ends up pleasing no one.

 

And EAware is fast approaching the latter end of that saying.

[Ketchum]

Poeple demand an option to play the game without having to pay a sub

 

Bioware breaks (again) and gives them what they want. They can play their character for 100% free

 

People complain because they got what they asked for but they still want everything for no effort

 

Lolno. GW2 is that way ---->

Edited October 19, 2012 by Ketchum

[LordArtemis]

Poeple demand an option to play the game without having to pay a sub

 

Bioware breaks (again) and gives them what they want. They can play their character for 100% free

 

People complain because they got what they asked for but they still want everything for no effort

 

Lolno. GW2 is that way ---->

 

How many things are wrong with this post?

 

Well, lets see....Bioware didn't break IMO, they had no choice. Because the original design intent flopped for the most part. It was an arrogant decision to launch with an incomplete product under a sub in this modern MMO age. They are not going F2P because we demanded it from my perspective, they did so because they want profits. And it turned out this was the way to get them.

 

I have as of yet to find one single person that wants everything for no effort. Still looking for the very elusive community member....

 

And of course, the infamous "if you dont like it, get out"....looks like 700k to 1.2 million players did exactly that. Only so many people can "get out" before the game closes its doors.

 

Its a silly thing to say IMO.

[Urael]

Well, lets see....Bioware didn't break IMO, they had no choice. Because the original design intent flopped for the most part. It was an arrogant decision to launch with an incomplete product under a sub in this modern MMO age. They are not going F2P because we demanded it from my perspective, they did so because they want profits. And it turned out this was the way to get them.

 

On this we agree and I have said as much in this thread and others.

 

I have as of yet to find one single person that wants everything for no effort. Still looking for the very elusive community member....

 

Have you never read any posts on THESE forums about people complaining and whining about "not having enough time to play". These people rage about having a life and family and working 10000hrs a week, blah blah blah ...and want to have all the best gear handed to them. There have been quite a few posts here on this. These people that are so buisy that they SHOULDN'T EVEN BE PLAYING AN MMORPG in the first place? THOSE people exist. Just watch the forums I am sure another whine post will pop up.

 

And of course, the infamous "if you dont like it, get out"....looks like 700k to 1.2 million players did exactly that. Only so many people can "get out" before the game closes its doors.

 

Most of those that left were because of the reason you stated above and not due to the meme that EAware is trying to spread stating that it was BECAUSE of the Subscription. It was not the "price of the subscription". It was "what you got for the subscription" which we agree was suboptimal in todays MMORPG market. I just want to continue to bring this up to fight the EAware meme as to why they went F2P. It was NOT the "price" of the sub. It was the fact that the "quality" of SWTOR was not worth the "price" of the sub at the time of the mass exodus.

[Monoth]

It's not (although it can be).

 

The whole point of F2P is to incentivize the Cashshop to the point the average player spends an average of $15 a month on it.

 

Subbing is just a bonus.

 

Thats only one part of it, the other part is to allow players just to pay for what they like. For example say you only like pvp, well then you can buy a PvP week pass for say (just guessing here) $2, now if you play regularly each month then thats $8 a month and you get all the pvp you want and pay about 1/2 of what you would pay if you subscribed to the game.

 

What I'm seeing is a lot of people arguing for the entire game to be free and just have the option of paying for fluff items in the cash shop, this is a poor business model as Bioware will lose a ton of money as there is NO incentive to be a subscriber, not to mention a lot of people could care less about fluff items and would spend virtual no money in the cash shop, only way to fix that would be to add Pay to Win items which most people would not want.

 

Bottom line is Bioware does not want to convert there existing subscribers into F2P players, they want the subscriptions but are just offering F2P options for those who only want to pay for certain aspects of the game (like pvp only) or for those players who don't play 24/7, that way a person could just pay for a week's worth of game time which would be cheaper then a whole month subscription which they wouldnt use due to real life issues and responsibilities..... it's also a way to get people to try out SWTOR who never had.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Monoth

[Ketchum]

How many things are wrong with this post?

You didn't point out too much, honestly.

 

Well, lets see....Bioware didn't break IMO, they had no choice. Because the original design intent flopped for the most part. It was an arrogant decision to launch with an incomplete product under a sub in this modern MMO age. They are not going F2P because we demanded it from my perspective, they did so because they want profits. And it turned out this was the way to get them.

Heaven forbid a brand spanking new game has technical issues. I think Bioware's devotion to their customer base has gone above and beyond to the point where they're changing everything they wanted this game to be, and soon it probably won't even be technically their's anymore. But people still complain, and Bioware still folds to the pressure. How long do you expect them to "pay for their mistakes"?

 

I have as of yet to find one single person that wants everything for no effort. Still looking for the very elusive community member....

Read the posts in this thread. The people who are complaining about these "restrictions", when in fact they're lucky to be getting anything at all without having to pay anything above the game cost for it. They got what they wanted but they want everything the full game has to offer without paying anything.

 

And of course, the infamous "if you dont like it, get out"....looks like 700k to 1.2 million players did exactly that. Only so many people can "get out" before the game closes its doors.

 

Its a silly thing to say IMO.

That's directed at all the people who want to turn this game into every other game they've played, the ones who demanded Free to Play, mainly. I felt they needed to know that this isn't the game they're looking for.

[Monoth]

On the whole issue of 1.7 million players leaving (not even sure that number is accurate) but guess what people, please name me a MMO that has kept there active numbers over million players besides WoW? You can't because bottom line is people have become bored with MMO's for the most part, they have played the same MMO Mechanics for over 10 years now, every MMO out there besides WOW have had numbers in the low 200k mark. SWTOR is not a bad game the problem is it's not different enough from the other MMOs on the market, the only thing that made SWTOR stand out is its story but once you do it and hit 50 there's not much else to do. This is a common issue with a lot of MMO's...

 

WoW was the first MMO to perfect the theme park design so it got a ton of subscribers, most people prefer to just stick with it then play another MMO which is basiacly a clone of WoW.

 

The F2P service will probably bump EA's sales for this game but it's not going to make it a WOW killer, the only thing that can do that is to create addictive fun end game content which Bioware has yet to do.

[Arkerus]

On the whole issue of 1.7 million players leaving (not even sure that number is accurate) but guess what people, please name me a MMO that has kept there active numbers over million players besides WoW? You can't because bottom line is people have become bored with MMO's for the most part, they have played the same MMO Mechanics for over 10 years now, every MMO out there besides WOW have had numbers in the low 200k mark. SWTOR is not a bad game the problem is it's not different enough from the other MMOs on the market, the only thing that made SWTOR stand out is its story but once you do it and hit 50 there's not much else to do. This is a common issue with a lot of MMO's...

 

WoW was the first MMO to perfect the theme park design so it got a ton of subscribers, most people prefer to just stick with it then play another MMO which is basiacly a clone of WoW.

 

The F2P service will probably bump EA's sales for this game but it's not going to make it a WOW killer, the only thing that can do that is to create addictive fun end game content which Bioware has yet to do.

 

Bears repeating. The MMO market has crashed in a big way. Even wow is affected.

[NinjaApacHe]

Yeah a few I'd like to point out that I've not seen in other F2P games before.

 

A restriction on Death for F2P users, this isn't going to go down well, after 5 deaths you have to purchase a license to stop dying at the nearest point.

 

Sprint at level 1 disabled?

 

Purchase a weekly pass for flash points, nobody does flash points enough for you to provide it as a weekly pass?

 

Emergency fleet pass restrictions, gotta pay money to get an 18 hour cool down, good luck with that.

 

You might as well start charging people 50 cartel coins to login, or 50 cartel coins to buy an item from a vendor or to be able to sell.

 

Some of the features are stupid and you will get nothing but public out roar over it. Yes, I'm well aware some people can live without these features.

 

But i don't like it and im paying user who's been subscribed since release and i think some of these free to play changes are ridiculous, it's gotten to the point that the cash shop won't just be a content / cosmetic feature, but you people at Bioware will force new players to pay for most of the ground up features that are free in other games, so good luck with this plan because if you go through with it, it will most likely fail.

 

What the heck are you talking about? Oh ok, I understand, You wanted to sail the F2P boat with the same rights of a sub player. Not possible mate. And remember that F2P gamers are used to these kind of stuff. So, sorry for you, but if you want to continue to have your rights you need to keep your subscription alive.

 

P.S. I really like the restrictions of F2P, Good Job BW/EA.

[Urael]

P.S. I really like the restrictions of F2P, Good Job BW/EA.

 

I kinda wish they would have done something more in thie vien:

 

I WISH they'd have limited the story to JUST act 1, allowed unlimited WZ's (with reduced returns), unlimited FP's and Ops (with reduced returns) and kept the story locked for acts 2, 3 and beyond. The stuff they're asking people to pay for, just isn't that good.

 

[DarknessInLight]

Remember Free to play is just that Free. However a gaming company needs to make money so special stuff will cost you to unlock. Just like with free food......you don't really have a right to complain, if you don't like it then don't eat it.

 

Thank you. FINALLY there is someone who understands what free is and why you can't get everything you want if you don't pay something for it.

 

The thing I'm most worried about is that there are going to be a bunch of spoiled teenagers and college kids that are going to try to ruin things for everyone else. There is going to be a HUGE spike in the use of the /ignore command and the Report function in game. Watch and see.

 

Other than that, I actually like what I have seen in the first video and I can't wait to see what BW and EA have in store next. Party Jawas > Ninja Pandas!