Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Comfterbilly]

I could've avoided such situations (well, not the other team's strengths, but at least my own team's weaknesses), but, as I did not choose to do so, I have to accept the consequences. Not limit other people's choices to make up for my own laziness. That would be like saying interrupts should be removed from the game, or at least disabled in unranked warzones, just because I can't be bothered to use activation-free heals or good positioning or interrupt immunity talents to deal with it.

 

This ^ is no logic at all. Between pugs and premades, premades are the only ones with a choice at all: ranked, or reg. Basically, premades get two queues, theirs and they want ours too. The issue is perhaps BW did not anticipate the need. Maybe the devs were naive enough to believe premades when they said "ranked" was what they want and as soon as they get it they will stay out of the solo ques. Since launch, solos have been demanding our own queue. During all that time premades are constantly saying, "you don't need your own queue, we just need ... ranked; we just need cross server... we just need matchmaking.

 

Well its BS. Give them matchmaking and they're going to hate getting rolled compared to pugfarming. Give them cross server and they'll hate getting rolled by other premades who are better than them. Give them ranked, and they hate getting rolled by premades who are better than them. For people who only care about "winning", what they really want is a fake contest, and the only thing they can't do without is free sanctioned pug farming by the devs. It's the one constant.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Comfterbilly

[Dawncatcher]

The issue when facing a good premade is not that they have voice coms (most good players do not need to communicate as they have good game sense and know what to do at any given moment anyway)

 

This is false, except in so far as *having* voice communications is not the same as *utilizing* them for maximum effectiveness. If they're just using voice communications to socialize or give useless calls for help because *Oh no! I don't want to die. Not because I couldn't come right out of the rez since there's no wait during offensive voicestar, but because I just don't like dying!" then yeah, voice doesn't help much.

 

But if they are using it, well, first, an obvious example, solo node defender is jumped at by 2 or 3 stealthers. Without voice, if solo node defender stops to type for help, they aren't using their cooldowns while typing, and die about the same time they finish typing. If they don't stop to type for help, they do use their cooldowns, and, while they do manage to live long enough for help to theoretically arrive, it never does unless someone who knew they were there notices their health dropping and comes running even though they didn't call (or just guesses from the number of opponents that some must've gone elsewhere). If the defender is on voice, they just call over voice at the same time as they are blowing their cooldowns / doing everything they can to live as long as possible, a scoundrel/operative hears them and speed-rolls over there, arriving just as they are about to die but in time to hold the node long enough for more help to arrive.

 

Or focus fire. Sorry, but marking targets and manually typing that people should attack them, even if people actually follow instructions, is nowhere near as efficient as calling them out over voice. For starters, what if more than one target is market? Non-voicers usually just split between them, and, even supposing they manage to kill them all, have no idea who to attack next and just go back to being disorganized at that point. Even if you say "attack target symbol first and then shield symbol", most people will just attack whichever one they see first (if they're listening to you at all -- and, let's face it, most don't). Voicers who have a good target caller and listen to that person proceed one after the other in quick succession until there are no more potential targets to kill. If you have 5 people all attacking a single target at the same time, and all moving together to a second target, and then a third, etc., that's voice. If a Voicer can't find the target, they can ask, and hear in response "Oh, yes, he's on the staircase to your left"; a non-voicer will just go attack some target they can find.

[Dawncatcher]

This ^ is no logic at all. Between pugs and premades, premades are the only ones with a choice at all: ranked, or reg. Basically, premades get two queues, theirs and they want ours too. .

 

Did you even read my post? Yes, you do have a choice. You can make a premade, or you can solo. That's a choice. You aren't forced to solo and not use voice. You choose to solo and not use voice. If you are too lazy or unsociable or otherwise insufficiently serious to bother getting a premade together and getting them on voice, you do not deserve any more accommodations than if I'm too lazy to bother using activation-free skills (or good positioning or interrupt immunity) when someone is spamming interrupts at me.

 

Also, premades can only get in ranked if they have a full team of 8. 7 or less and they have to wait until they can recruit more people or just queue regular. (Plus, for more than 4, it's technically two groups queuing... but to get around that, some only accept a pop if both groups of the ops get a pop simultaneously.)

Edited June 2, 2013 by Dawncatcher

[TonyDragonflame]

I'm wonder, how premaders so dumb what still cannot understand one simply thing: what solo players DO NOT WANT PLAY WITH THEM?

 

Its simply dudes from premades: solo players dont want play with you.

 

They dont want.

 

Play.

 

With you.

 

Solo playes want play only with/versus solo players. Thats all.

Edited June 2, 2013 by TonyDragonflame

[Comfterbilly]

Did you even read my post? Yes, you do have a choice. You can make a premade, or you can solo. That's a choice. You aren't forced to solo and not use voice. You choose to solo and not use voice. If you are too lazy or unsociable or otherwise insufficiently serious to bother getting a premade together and getting them on voice, you do not deserve any more accommodations than if I'm too lazy to bother using activation-free skills (or good positioning or interrupt immunity) when someone is spamming interrupts at me.

 

Also, premades can only get in ranked if they have a full team of 8. 7 or less and they have to wait until they can recruit more people or just queue regular. (Plus, for more than 4, it's technically two groups queuing... but to get around that, some only accept a pop if both groups of the ops get a pop simultaneously.)

 

A choice is not having premades in our queue. Casual premies are fine. If they want a place to practice without 8 players that's their problem; if they want a place to practice without losing standing that's their problem. Not saying BW shouldn't fix it, just saying that is their problem with BW for BW to do something with them but whatever their issue is, our issue is them: the premades.

 

If your premades are not the ones taking advantage of this queue disparity, blame them, not the solo players. They're ruining it for everybody and no one can say there aren't a lot of groups taking advantage of a near-broken system.

[Dawncatcher]

A choice is not having premades in our queue. Casual premies are fine. If they want a place to practice without 8 players that's their problem; if they want a place to practice without losing standing that's their problem. Not saying BW shouldn't fix it, just saying that is their problem with BW for BW to do something with them but whatever their issue is, our issue is them: the premades.

 

If your premades are not the ones taking advantage of this queue disparity, blame them, not the solo players. They're ruining it for everybody and no one can say there aren't a lot of groups taking advantage of a near-broken system.

 

This is a classic example of failure to take responsibility for your own choices. *You* chose not to form a premade. And, unless you are literally deaf, *you* chose not to use one of any numerous free or very cheap voice options out there. (And even if you are deaf, many deaf people are very good at discussing tactics in advance / using other tools like Alt+F/Ctrl+F to make up for their disability. Plus deaf people tend to be fast typers for the same reason that blind people tend to have good hearing. Yes, they are still disabled, but so are people playing with only one hand, and I don't hear anyone saying we should all be nerfed in some way so one-handed people can be on an even playing field. And if you do think we should all play with one hand tied behind our back to put one-handed people on an even playing field, see Harrison Bergeron.) You may have perfectly reasonable reasons for *choosing* not to form a premade and get on voice with them, but it is nonetheless *your choice*.

 

But rather than accept responsibility for *your choice* to queue solo without voice, *you are blaming other people for your choice*. Your problem isn't premades. You could make your own, get a free or cheap voice server, and have all the same advantages as them. Your problem is yourself. You chose not to do so and you are unwilling to accept responsibility for the consequences.

 

A the difference between a hopelessly bad PvPer, and a bad PvPer who at least has the *potential* to become good, is that the latter realizes the great truth of the following:

We have met the enemy, and he is us.

 

Another good one:

It is not from their friends, but from their enemies, that cities learn the art of building high walls.

 

Good premades make you stronger by showing you what you should be doing, if only you have enough sense to learn from them. But of course, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. If you refuse to drink, that is no one's fault but your own.

[Dawncatcher]

I'm wonder, how premaders so dumb what still cannot understand one simply thing: what solo players DO NOT WANT PLAY WITH THEM?

 

Its simply dudes from premades: solo players dont want play with you.

 

They dont want.

 

Play.

 

With you.

 

Solo playes want play only with/versus solo players. Thats all.

 

How are you so dumb as to think you speak for all solo players?

 

This is false. I often queue solo, and when I do, I am a solo player. I have no issue with queuing against premades.

 

If you truly do not wish to fight premades, there is a simple solution: do not queue for warzones. Or withdraw consent at any time by leaving the warzones. When you queue for a warzone, you accept that you may be matched against people who are much better than yourself. If you only want to play against people who are worse than yourself, advertise that you are looking for 1v1s, but only accept requests from people you deem worse. Or, on a PvP server, go one-shot some lowbies.

[Comfterbilly]

This is a classic example of failure to take responsibility for your own choices. *You* chose not to form a premade. And, unless you are literally deaf, *you* chose not to use one of any numerous free or very cheap voice options out there. (And even if you are deaf, many deaf people are very good at discussing tactics in advance / using other tools like Alt+F/Ctrl+F to make up for their disability. Plus deaf people tend to be fast typers for the same reason that blind people tend to have good hearing. Yes, they are still disabled, but so are people playing with only one hand, and I don't hear anyone saying we should all be nerfed in some way so one-handed people can be on an even playing field. And if you do think we should all play with one hand tied behind our back to put one-handed people on an even playing field, see Harrison Bergeron.) You may have perfectly reasonable reasons for *choosing* not to form a premade and get on voice with them, but it is nonetheless *your choice*.

 

But rather than accept responsibility for *your choice* to queue solo without voice, *you are blaming other people for your choice*. Your problem isn't premades. You could make your own, get a free or cheap voice server, and have all the same advantages as them. Your problem is yourself. You chose not to do so and you are unwilling to accept responsibility for the consequences.

 

A the difference between a hopelessly bad PvPer, and a bad PvPer who at least has the *potential* to become good, is that the latter realizes the great truth of the following:

We have met the enemy, and he is us.

 

Another good one:

It is not from their friends, but from their enemies, that cities learn the art of building high walls.

 

Good premades make you stronger by showing you what you should be doing, if only you have enough sense to learn from them. But of course, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. If you refuse to drink, that is no one's fault but your own.

 

False. The choice is, does BW want our business or not?

 

Do you want to let solos in ranked? Why not?

 

^ Premades want to have it both ways. Like I said earlier, "Excuse me - the definition of PVP is not, "being stuck with premades."

 

I could win all day in a premade and not like it. Solo players don't dislike cooperation, but try to TELL me what class to play? Get bent. Target callers are incredibly, what is the word, anal retentive. Get on the headphones, no thank you I don't want to be in a group of people I might look down on socially, trying to tell me what to do. How do you take them seriously as a strategist if you don't take them seriously as a person? So those are just a few good reasons not to want to join a premade. It's not that we "don't want to be good." It's that we "don't want their company." In a premade, or in a warzone with their premade.

 

I would argue they're not even much good for the game. As I said earlier, "these "great noble premades of ultimate skill" are usually just gravity-spamming plus ranged DPS plus sentinel speed plus immorto heals plus guardian running around twice as fast as everybody else taking advantage of the no-challenge game play.

 

Whatever BW devs think, this ^ can't be what they're shooting for; it's what they're getting, to me, I think the company ought to be embarrassed to be hosting such a thing."

 

But if you do want a tip, as far as that goes, when I do play with friends, Google Hangout has been a million times better than mumble or ventrillo, and free.

 

Also, the people in premades usually whine a lot when things aren't going their way. Don't want to hear it from what ought to be grown men. Join = Fail.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Comfterbilly

[MilleniumSolo]

You know what's ruining Warzones (at least for me)? People who have no idea what it is they should be doing. Even when instructions are explicitly given to them via chat, they disregard the information and proceed to fail miserably. Honestly, you'd think that for some people this is the first video game they've ever played in their entire life.

 

Ancient Hypergate: Last round, all we needed to do was defend our pylon and we would have won the match. I said as much multiple times in the chat. "Don't rush the middle or attack their side, defend our pylon and we'll win." So what do the seven other members of my team do? Exactly what I tell them not to do. I was left to defend the pylon by my lonesome and sure enough, the enemy team took it and we lost.

 

How difficult is it to read the chat, communicate with others and use a little common sense?

Edited June 2, 2013 by MilleniumSolo

[Dawncatcher]

False. The choice is, does BW want our business or not?

 

I'm sure plenty of other people would quit, or at least threaten to, or at least play much less often and only in ranked, if Bioware refused to let them group with their friends in unranked. It is a social game, and, for some people, playing with their boyfriend/girlfriend/fiance/wife/friends is the only reason to play. Take away their ability to play together, and you take away their reason to play. And I think the threat of such people to quit is more serious than the threat of people to quit just because they don't want to play against better players, as the latter will still find they are unable to win against better players even if the better players are not in a premade, and will still blame everyone else besides themselves rather than asking, "What can I do to get better?", and will quite possibly leave the game regardless, but alas, it will do them no good, as their inability to learn will follow them to the next game they go on to. Regardless, Bioware cannot make everyone happy no matter what they do, and aren't likely to bend over backwards for people who are impossible to please anyway, because they are hopelessly bad PvPers who always blame other people, saying "they are too good" instead of "I need to be better", and will always be complaining about something no matter what Bioware does, unless Bioware finds a way to make it so both sides can win warzones so there aren't loser anymore.

 

Do you want to let solos in ranked? Why not?

 

Yes, I would like soloers in ranked, actually. A full team of 8 soloers would make no sense, obviously they would just be free ranked commendations for the opposing team, but I wouldn't mind seeing soloers backfill after someone disconnects from a ranked warzone, if said soloer doesn't mind. Or if the team only has 7, it makes as much sense to PUG the last slot for ranked warzones as it does for a level 55 hardmode ops. Yes, it would probably make more sense to advertise on general and actually get the person on voice, but hey, people do the same for ops, pugging an 8th slot and not getting queue-chosen person on voice even though it's hardmode.

 

^ Premades want to have it both ways.

 

Premades are either better, or you do not notice that they are premades. If the former, they put work in, choosing a balanced team, getting people on voice, having a good leader call good instructions out on voice, etc., and deserve to be rewarded for that as much as people who put work into gearing up properly / adjusting their build to work with their playstyle / learning how to kite / learning a good rotation. Teamwork -- which can only realize it's full glory in a premade with voicechat -- is as much a part of the game as gearing and kiting and learning rotations and all that good stuff. And as for the premades that you don't even notice, it's probably just someone queuing with their friends/wife/boyfriend/girlfriend/fiance for social reasons, and nothing to worry about.

 

Like I said earlier, "Excuse me - the definition of PVP is not, "being stuck with premades."

 

Being stuck with people who are more talented or better geared or otherwise "overpowered" relative to you is part of PvP. Even if you are one of the best, the game has something of a rock-paper-scissors design, and there will always be *someone* out there who can find an exploit your weaknesses. If people like you aren't complaining about pre-mades, they're complaining about how kiters are cheating because they move and make it hard for you to hit them, or how predation is a hack, or how snipers or scoundrels or shadows or sorcerers or commandos or vanguards or juggernauts or marauder are overpowered, or how there's too big a gear gap between Partisan and Conqueror, or any number of other things, rather than accept responsibility for gearing up, learning to play your class, learning to kite and use cc to mitigate other people's kiting, learning the strengths and weaknesses of other classes, working together with other players, or at least, accepting responsibility enough to realize you have no one to blame but yourself for the fact that you are not reaching your full potential. People like you will always find other people to blame for their failures rather than improving.

 

I could win all day in a premade and not like it. Solo players don't dislike cooperation, but try to TELL me what class to play? Get bent. Target callers are incredibly, what is the word, anal retentive. Get on the headphones, no thank you I don't want to be in a group of people I might look down on socially, trying to tell me what to do. How do you take them seriously as a strategist if you don't take them seriously as a person? So those are just a few good reasons not to want to join a premade.

 

And you just provided a list of reasons why (serious) premades are better than you. It's more likely you'd be told to respec than switch to an alternate -- the leader won't even know you have any other 55s unless you tell them you do -- but if you play a guardian, for example, and you aren't at least *willing* to guard one of the healers if no one else volunteers, then quite frankly, you don't deserve to win. Same if you play an operative and aren't at least *willing* to respec to healing in the event two others don't volunteer to heal. You may *prefer* a particular playstyle, and may in fact be able to do it most of the time and still win because a) other people are often willing to fill other roles and b) you tend to be better at what you are good at, but if you aren't willing to adapt to the needs of your team, you don't deserve to win. You are of course free to queue solo and play a willpower-geared gunslinger if you want to, but premades would be right not to welcome you. Target calling is one of the things that makes serious premades better than pugs -- if you don't like it, there's another reason you don't deserve to win. Don't respect your teammates and don't want to get on headphones because of that? Seriously? You can't find anyone you respect enough to get on voicechat with? Another reason you don't deserve to win. Good teams are filled with people who mutually respect each other, not egomaniacs who look down on everyone.

 

Yes, you do have plenty of good reasons not to join a premade. You'd only drag them down, for the reasons you yourself listed. Thank you for not joining premades.

 

It's not that we "don't want to be good." It's that we "don't want their company." In a premade, or in a warzone with their premade.

 

Yes, you just want to *be good* without doing any of the work necessary to be good. I understand completely. You want being good to be handed to you instead of having to work for it.

[Comfterbilly]

I'm sure plenty of other people would quit, or at least threaten to, or at least play much less often and only in ranked, if Bioware refused to let them group with their friends in unranked.

 

Not what we're asking for. Just want the toggle for a solo-only que. Creates three tiers:

 

1. Solo

2. Casual Group

3. Ranked.

 

Firstly, whatever that does to your queue is not our problem. We are more than happy to wait a little longer if it means no 4-mans. Secondly, the queue times argument is BS. There are plenty of premades in non ranked now, there will be plenty of premades in non-ranked then, the only difference is they will HAVE to play each other. And we won't have to play them.

 

As far as ranked queues go - not our fault you guys won't play each other.

[Helig]

I'm wonder, how premaders so dumb what still cannot understand one simply thing: what solo players DO NOT WANT PLAY WITH THEM?

 

Its simply dudes from premades: solo players dont want play with you.

 

They dont want.

 

Play.

 

With you.

 

Solo playes want play only with/versus solo players. Thats all.

That's "Play with me" syndrome. People who consider their playstyle to be the correct one and make every attempt to force it on those that pursue alternatives. Reminded me of this post on Rift forums.

 

Basically people in their comfort zone refusing to recognize that this comfort zone is not universal to all the playerbase. They religiously enforce their views, grow a bigger sense of entitlement and spend a lot of time bashing alternative paths, dismissing other, no less demanding (in a way applicable to an online game) ways to focus one's effort.

If you truly do not wish to fight premades, there is a simple solution: do not queue for warzones. Or withdraw consent at any time by leaving the warzones. When you queue for a warzone, you accept that you may be matched against people who are much better than yourself. If you only want to play against people who are worse than yourself, advertise that you are looking for 1v1s, but only accept requests from people you deem worse. Or, on a PvP server, go one-shot some lowbies.

Straw is coming out of every stitch of this man-shaped post.

 

Can also be turned around against premades with "if you're so amazing, then play rateds" rhetoric, which also isn't the solution, considering the current state of events.

 

Also, "If u dun liek 'Murica, then leeeve!" logic is extremely constructive.

Not what we're asking for. Just want the toggle for a solo-only que. Creates three tiers:

 

1. Solo

2. Casual Group

3. Ranked.

Fine by me. If premades are truly the majority, which the advocates have been seen suggesting, then it's the solo players who choose to queue solo only will suffer bigger queue times. Naturally, the truth is somewhere in the middle and both sides will have increased queues, but I, as someone who runs both solo and premade, am completely fine with that. Casual premade on premade games are what gives me the most joy, but rolling over a pug is just a waste of time, unless you're farming them for comms on purpose, which is just low.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Helig

[enragedcow]

Playing with a group of guildies/friends is great fun

 

MMOs are not solo games, stop making them such, make friends, make a premade team together and have more fun than you ever would have in solo pvp.

 

If you get defeated because you choose not to take advantage of human's natural ability to communicate and work together as social animals then you have no right to whine about it.

[Helig]

Playing with a group of guildies/friends is great fun

 

MMOs are not solo games, stop making them such, make friends, make a premade team together and have more fun than you ever would have in solo pvp.

 

If you get defeated because you choose not to take advantage of human's natural ability to communicate and work together as social animals then you have no right to whine about it.

It's about the level of organization. You still work together with pugs - you call incomings, you respond calls, you confirm tactics.

 

But, unlike premades, you can't filter group composition - you don't get to decide how many healers and tanks you have, which DPS you use (for backline and frontline forming, how aggressive or defensive your composition will be etc). You obviously don't have the experience playing together - important for playstyles to "click" together. And you don't have voice comm, which is, while overrated, according to some, is very, very useful for relaying general enemy movements around the map, calling inc, cancelling calls, informing of attack redirections, etc. Writing isn't half as comfortable and fast, and is worse on the receiving end (you don't usually read chat in combat, but when you hear verbal warnings, you may readjust).

 

You can't hope for 11 random people tossed into a football field to have a fair shot against than 11 people who have been training together for a couple of months and have designated positions and roles (goalie, offense, defense) - unless the randoms plain outclass them, which in ToR is a rare occasion, thanks to a rather subpar common denominator.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Helig

[Isislol]

Not what we're asking for. Just want the toggle for a solo-only que. Creates three tiers:

 

1. Solo

2. Casual Group

3. Ranked.

 

Firstly, whatever that does to your queue is not our problem. We are more than happy to wait a little longer if it means no 4-mans. Secondly, the queue times argument is BS. There are plenty of premades in non ranked now, there will be plenty of premades in non-ranked then, the only difference is they will HAVE to play each other. And we won't have to play them.

 

As far as ranked queues go - not our fault you guys won't play each other.

 

 

 

Good Idea. Also remove ranked comms from vendors so people who solo queue can't get conqueror unless they play ranked. Works for you? I mean why solo and casual players should be rewarded with best pvp gear if they don't want to play against better teams? Put rating on conqueror to force people into playing ranked. You don't like ranked? Don't play them but enjoy your partisan set, the difference between 2 sets is minimal anyway.

[SajPl]

 

As far as ranked queues go - not our fault you guys won't play each other.

 

As far as regulars go. Not our fault you guys are bad and are dragging your own teams down because you get premades on your own team as often as on the other team, thus all QQers are so bad that they drag down their premades thus they are bad and thus deserve to wipe.

[HeetCrusher]

i agree here keep groups out of unranked pvp zones. There is a group version so go into that. or give a solo version only wz.

[SajPl]

i agree here keep groups out of unranked pvp zones. There is a group version so go into that. or give a solo version only wz.

 

You mean a warzone with just you and nobody else? That is a true solo warzone ^^.

[Comfterbilly]

Good Idea. Also remove ranked comms from vendors so people who solo queue can't get conqueror unless they play ranked. Works for you? I mean why solo and casual players should be rewarded with best pvp gear if they don't want to play against better teams? Put rating on conqueror to force people into playing ranked. You don't like ranked? Don't play them but enjoy your partisan set, the difference between 2 sets is minimal anyway.

 

Yeah literally could not care less about any of that so it would be an especially easy price to pay for getting a solo queue toggle, not that I see how it relates.

[abhaxus]

As someone who recently left a guild and has been solo q'ing pretty regularly for about a month, I can definitely see where some players get upset about premades. There have been many games that I have been on a team with 7 other solo q players and have been totally ****ed by group composition, especially when I am playing one of my alts that is not able to respec for healing/dps. The most frustrating part of q'ing solo is being stuck on my PT on a team that is all juggs/maras and being the squishiest target to not get healed against a team with a good premade on the other side.

 

Bolster has made this even more frustrating, because now you can't really tell who the bads are before the game starts at a glance. Pre-2.0, my limit was 2 players at 17k hp or below, or one player at 16k or below. A quick glance at the ops frame would tell me if there were any "bads" (undergeared is the same thing) and I would just leave before the start of the WZ if there were 2 recruit geared or green geared players on my team. Now you can't do that as easily. So you get sucked into at least a minute of a WZ before you find out your team is full of a bunch of morons.

 

Some of my most fun games have been when I have been solo q'ed as a healer, getting no support whatsoever from my team, and also games where I have been solo q'ed and there's been a tank who will guard me and we develop synergy without having any voice comm. It's fun.

 

But to say premades are the problem is completely missing the point. The problem is bads, not premades.

[Ramtar]

it is the players that don't know how to play their class or understand the objection of the warzones that are ruining it.

[Forgon]

Bads will be bads, you can't solve this. Non-ranked is for the bads and the decents to play. The Ranked is for elites or people willing to try to be elite. Premades are the source of the problem.

 

Getting premades all grouped together to fight eachother reduces wz matching. Worst case scenario, solo que'd players have longer wait times because premades won't be qued with them unless they absolutely have to.

 

Best case scenario is that premades go against premades and solos could against solos, allowing the better premade coordination to determine premade matches and the better solo coordination to determine solo matches.

 

Not that hard, you just need to segregate the brackets with the ability to mix them in the case of emergency (in that case, premades need to be split as evenly as possible between sides, especially in same-faction matches).

 

Just my opinion on this.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Forgon

[MotorCityMan]

If premades had to face other premades, there would be a lot less of them. All of a sudden "friends" will have an "alt to level" or "dailies to do" or "an op to run" or just be "too tired", when it comes time to group up for premades vs premades.The same BS excuses they give when it comes to forming a ranked team.

Who's foolin who.

[Kontraz]

I think its sad that most of these people that queue solo are convinced that premades only exist for the sole purpose of pugstomping. Ever consider that it is either their friends they are playing with, they are trying to get geared, or they don't have the team composition to take on rateds? If it was the case that they only wanted to pugstomp, every time the other team also had a premade, they would quit. This is far from the case. If you ever decided to make one of your own, you would probably realize this very early on, but that's asking you to be social in an MMO, which is just ridiculous

[Astarica]

There's nothing wrong with wanting to PUGstomp. It's not like if you have 3 Operative healers on your side for whatever reason you're going to call your victory tainted or whatever, even though it's almost impossible to lose with a team like that. But a team that consistently wins against PUG should be matched up against stronger opponents, which is clearly not happening right now.

 

Premades, like always, relies on class imbalance to carry them. Right now I see a tendency to rely on healers, especially Operatives, to carry them, though it's not like you'll be seeing questionable DPS types in a premade either. Like it or not, not every spec is competitive in a WZ and a premade tends to self select against the uncompetitive specs, which of course means the team is stronger.