Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Aehgo]

I believe we should hold a celebration to commemorate the 300th page. I wonder how many pages it will take to get an official answer on this.

 

Get an answer?whats the question?lmao

First it was gear,then it was class,premades etc..people always find excuses about why they lose..if they do seperate the queue system the next thing will be "We need matchmaking so I'm not on the losing team all the time" or

"Stop putting good players on the other team!!" etc lol

[TonyDragonflame]

You really want a rating based off of 7 random players? That's some sound logic. And if premades are such baddies some good solo players should be able to give them a run for their money but they just quit out right away, I see it whenever I solo queue.

 

Every solo rating based on your individual game on warzone - objectives, dps, protection and healing.

 

If you play with random baddies, and if you are good, you can reach high rating anyway - if you good player and can communicate on warzone and can turn tides ever solo.

 

Remember, from other side same randoms too, so all game now will be based on great solo players, who can solo turn tides.

[TridusSWTOR]

The kicker is that the support structure for your "Orchid Children" is already in place and it has been from the very beginning. They simply need to utilize it.

 

Through out this thread, you will see posts from "Grass Children" telling others that they can find the support that they need by joining guilds, grouping with friends, checking the forums, or simply asking questions of another player while in game. In response to those postings, you will see people basically replying that they want to play the way that they want to play and the game should be adjusted to fit their play style.

 

Those that are unwilling to use the support system that is in place should have to deal with the consequences of doing so. They should not be coddled because they insist on playing a MMO as a single player game.

 

I solo queue most of the time and I recently came back to the game after taking a break for a few months. Before I started PvPing again I checked the PvP forums about Bolster, then checked my class forums on gearing and BiS, then asked questions of those in my guild who had been around and knew how everything was put together, and in game I asked questions of more experienced commandos and mercs about the changes to our class and more questions about gearing.

 

So, once again, the support structure is in place it just needs to be utilized.

 

My theory is that most QQers are just those that are unwilling to do so.

 

This post is funny.

 

I have a few questions for you.

 

So when people asking for a solo queue option in PVP, are they asking the enemies to be bots? Because then that would imply wanting a single player game.

 

When you solo queue in the current state of PVP, to do go up against bots? That would be a single player feature as well.

 

So...where/when exactly did people ask for a single player game in PVP?

[Kovaos]

This post is funny.

 

I have a few questions for you.

 

So when people asking for a solo queue option in PVP, are they asking the enemies to be bots? Because then that would imply wanting a single player game.

 

When you solo queue in the current state of PVP, to do go up against bots? That would be a single player feature as well.

 

So...where/when exactly did people ask for a single player game in PVP?

 

What? Really? How do you not come up with the conclusion that they want to play against other players that are not joined to a premade. This is second grade man. I would love to play against any premade you're in

[TridusSWTOR]

TL;DR This is the positives of what I want and the negatives of what you want.

 

A solo queue solves nothing. It causes an extreme amount of problems (queue times to say the least), but solves nothing. As long as the skill is even on both sides, you don't need to separate who is in which queue. Trust me, if you are on here complaining about premades always stomping you, you are in one of four categories:

 

1) You're not good. You may not be bad (well, you're probably bad), but you're not good and there is a good chance you think you're better than you are. Because of who matchmaking would put you against, you will not see the good premades, but may run into some mediocre ones if it was implemented without a solo queue. Either way, you will see much better matchups and have more fun.

 

2) You are average to good, but aren't looking for a competitive atmosphere. You aren't in one of the top guilds doing rateds and might even be in a PvE guild with friends who don't PvP or no guild at all. You are generally losing to better teams because your team can't keep up with the other team and you and see a large gap in stats at the end of a warzone between your team and everyone else. Matchmaking will help you by giving you teammates that are closer to your level, or at least teams that are more evenly distributed as far as skill level goes, rather than being stacked one way.

 

3) You're a reg hero. Good or bad, you solo queue because you are a "real" man. You see premading as a crutch because you don't care about anyone but yourself, so you're the first one to leave a node unguarded or unsuccessfully attack a node solo and leave your team a man down at an untaken node. I hope they find a way to match all of these players together so no one is stuck with this guy.

 

4) You're bad to average. You know you aren't good, but have fun in warzones and enjoy PvP combat. Matchmaking will put you with players of similar skill and not only make warzones more fun, but also help you improve in a way that solo queue never will by applying pressure to you in order to win. You won't have many really easy wins or face many no win scenarios, so you should win 50% of your games if you never improve.

 

Solo Queue takes away probably the top 30% of players on your server the majority of the time. It takes away the middle 40% probably half the time. You are going to see warzone after warzone of bads being bad. And huge queues for groups because some premade will have 3 people and hold things up until another 3 queue to group with them. The population can't support it, heck the population can't support matchmaking but at least it could try. We'll see what the magical solution is with 2.4 and hope it's worth the wait or PvP might literally be dead in this game.

 

You can see the clear hostile bias when you even try to start a conversation with anti-solo queue supporters. That entire list is just saying the same thing over and over, which is just insults, nothing constructive.

 

They complain about grouping with bads...but still want to group with bads. I guess everything is fine though, considering PVPers are transferring to different servers to get competition, since there aren't many people queueing for PVP now a days...I wonder why.

 

Try a little less childish insults and a little more...substance.

[Astarica]

Random team is quite a popular form of playing in Warcraft 3, with the top player having about 80% the games played compared to solo ladder, which is the only type of games with more games played. And Warcraft 3 requires considerable more coordination to actually win in a team game as it is actuall important to know what the heck your teammates are doing, while in SWTOR it's usually optional as long as one guy knows to stay behind to node guard.

 

So you absolutely can come up with a good rating with completely random players based on the standard win/loss adjustment on winning. I mean seriously do people think the top of the solo queue is just going to be some guy who is inexplicably lucky and always have the best teammates? Well if that guy is just so lucky maybe he rightfully deserves his spot at the top. If you look at the Warcraft 3 random team ladder the top player wins about 60% of their games, and that's not an accident when you consistently win 60% of your team while matched up against guys who are of comparable skill against you. Obviously the guy at the top is extremely good to even win 60% of the time. Same thing will happen if there's actually some degree of matchmaking, as you'll quickly find winning more than 50% of the game when you're not playing against inferior competition is very hard to do unless you're simply a lot better than everyone else.

[TridusSWTOR]

You mean you don't have the intellect to be able to have a discussion.Instead you should keep throwing silly opinions/ideas,I need a good laugh.

 

So you disagree with his idea?

 

An idea that promotes individuals to try to perform at there best in order to get a higher ranking. An idea that eventually will make a single player want to get better and maybe eventually find a good group down the road.

 

Instead you prefer the current system, which encourages good solo queuer's to just /quit and rematch since there will be no reward for their efforts.

 

Lots of logic you have....

[DariusCalera]

This post is funny.

 

I have a few questions for you.

 

So when people asking for a solo queue option in PVP, are they asking the enemies to be bots? Because then that would imply wanting a single player game.

 

When you solo queue in the current state of PVP, to do go up against bots? That would be a single player feature as well.

 

So...where/when exactly did people ask for a single player game in PVP?

 

While this game is an MMO, a player can go from 1-55 without grouping with anyone. That, in effect, makes the MMO a single player game for them.

 

In PvP, if a player does only what they want without regard to their team mates, objectives, or anything else, then it has essentially, became a single player game for them as well. While they might be playing against and with other players it is only their goals and how they want to play that they take into account.

 

They are concerned with the singular aspect of the game in what they want to do with everything else being secondary.

 

If their goals are hindered, for whatever reason, in this case premades, they take offense even though there are features within the game that would allow them to overcome this obstacle.

 

If they do not want to use those features, then that is on them and if a person refuses to use, or discounts, the MMO aspects of a game then that game has, essentially become a single person one.

Edited June 10, 2013 by DariusCalera

[Comfterbilly]

This post is funny.

 

I have a few questions for you.

 

So when people asking for a solo queue option in PVP, are they asking the enemies to be bots? Because then that would imply wanting a single player game.

 

When you solo queue in the current state of PVP, to do go up against bots? That would be a single player feature as well.

 

They are concerned with .

 

Straw man. Solo-only and single player are not synonymous.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Comfterbilly

[AlrikFassbauer]

Solo queuers dont have their own separated ranked queue, so please Bioware, make *solo only* *ranked* queue, with solo individual rating, for good players who dont wanna play on regulars with/versus premaders baddies.

 

Sounds like a good idea, imho.

[Jadescythe]

You can see the clear hostile bias when you even try to start a conversation with anti-solo queue supporters. That entire list is just saying the same thing over and over, which is just insults, nothing constructive.

 

They complain about grouping with bads...but still want to group with bads. I guess everything is fine though, considering PVPers are transferring to different servers to get competition, since there aren't many people queueing for PVP now a days...I wonder why.

 

Try a little less childish insults and a little more...substance.

 

L2comprehend I guess? I think I summarized the types of people who complain about premades well. There are other types of solo queuers, but they understand what is going on and don't blame everything on premades. Not to mention, I specifically told you how matchmaking would benefit each of these types of players whereas a solo queue would simply split up the population and increase queue times.

 

None of these were insults, in fact I specifically mentioned players with skill. The fact is, there is a wide range of skill levels that complain about premades, but they are a scapegoat for the real problems that exist. A tank/healer combo doesn't have to be in VOIP and have 500 games played together to be effective if they know what they're doing. So the bad players complain because the other team is too good and the good players complain because the players on their team are bad.

 

And there are plenty of terrible premades out there just looking to have fun and enjoy the game. Putting them in a queue with good premades certainly doesn't help them. Just like putting solo queuers in a queue with the best solo queuers in the game doesn't help them. The best players are the ones that know how to play as a team, even if they aren't queued as one. They can focus fire, peel, and use the right abilities at the right times in PUGs. That's why one queue with some sort of matchmaking is a far better solution. Let me know when we have 5 million people in one queue and we can have a solo queue, duo queue, trio queue, and every queue you can think of.

[SajPl]

Can we change the title to "Bads are ruining non-ranked wazones"?

Most of the time I premade its just me and a mate,healer+tank and win rate is around 90%,but we have to do everything to win,we ,go ninja turrets,we fight their entire team and hold them for a long while while the rest of our team will lose our turret somehow....bads do nothing to help but complain about how the other team has a premade,they will only do max 800 dps/1000 hps...

Most warzones are just decided most of the time by whatever team has the least bads to carry,with the skillcap so low in this game it will rarely come down to who is the better pvper..just who has the least bads to carry..

 

This is so true.

[Jadescythe]

Oxymoron? Trying to tell someone you didn't insult them by insulting them?

 

 

 

Why do you insist on continuing to play against pugs? Downplaying the effectiveness of a premade isn't working.

 

Why do you insist on ignoring half my posts? As I've said, I want premades and PUGs to play together, but I want them to be of equal skill level. Bad PUGs play bad premades and good PUGs play good premades. Is that hard to understand? We don't have the population to make either queue effective. You'll just end up with the same situation we have now, but longer queues. Even if you did matchmaking in separate queues, you would have far too few players to match anyone effectively.

 

You are also assuming I premade. I was in a group of 3 for the first time in months the other day because some of my friends have recently come back to the game. The difference is, I realize that I'm not losing to premades because they are premades, but because my team lacks the capacity to deal with said players on any level. I don't blame premades for grouping with friends, I blame BW for letting people play against players who are clearly on a different level than them.

[L-RANDLE]

This is so true.

 

Can't be.. Premades are OP'd with their fancy keybinds, unaugmented greens, and no stims running.....

[Kovaos]

Why do you insist on ignoring half my posts? As I've said, I want premades and PUGs to play together, but I want them to be of equal skill level. Bad PUGs play bad premades and good PUGs play good premades. Is that hard to understand? We don't have the population to make either queue effective. You'll just end up with the same situation we have now, but longer queues. Even if you did matchmaking in separate queues, you would have far too few players to match anyone effectively.

 

Well, for anyone's suggestion to be applied x server queue would have to be in place. Until such there won't nor shouldn't be any type of matchmaking system.

[Kovaos]

This is so true.

 

So you support separating the two? That way you won't need to worry about carrying the bads right?

[Jadescythe]

Well, for anyone's suggestion to be applied x server queue would have to be in place. Until such there won't nor shouldn't be any type of matchmaking system.

 

I respectively disagree, matchmaking should be in yesterday. It will at least function properly weeknights and weekends to make things more balanced and should only be implemented for 55 warzones. Cross server has already been said to be in the far distance future, so there is no point in even discussing it at this point.

[L-RANDLE]

Well, for anyone's suggestion to be applied x server queue would have to be in place. Until such there won't nor shouldn't be any type of matchmaking system.

What? Um group finder?

Are you telling me something that is already in game would be hard for PVP?

[Kovaos]

What? Um group finder?

Are you telling me something that is already in game would be hard for PVP?

 

I was considering queue times. We don't believe such would increase?

[L-RANDLE]

I was considering queue times. We don't believe such would increase?

 

What's the point of having solo only if no one is in Que?

 

Matchmaking in the current build NEEDS to be implemented in some form or fashion. At least then there is some balance in team composition. An individual rating system is also desperately needed so the bads/goods can be evenly distributed....

None of that requires cross server....

[Kovaos]

What's the point of having solo only if no one is in Que?

 

Matchmaking in the current build NEEDS to be implemented in some form or fashion. At least then there is some balance in team composition. An individual rating system is also desperately needed so the bads/goods can be evenly distributed....

None of that requires cross server....

 

It would be bush-league to implement a system that increases the queue time. I would love to see a matchmaking system in place, but I doubt we would see matches popping as often. Of course, this is just my speculation.

 

Hodor.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Kovaos

[Astarica]

It would be bush-league to implement a system that increases the queue time. I would love to see a matchmaking system in place, but I doubt we would see matches popping as often. Of course, this is just my speculation.

 

Hodor.

 

The easiest way to do matchmaking without significantly impacting queue time is to greatly favor same side faction games. If we have 8 superheroes queue up on Republic side and 8 newbs on the Empire side, it'd be very hard to think of a way to balance this team. But if they're on the same side, the task is trivial. Obviously if you got the right guys from both side you should still use them, but it is way easier to have a balanced team when you can rearrange the ordering of all 16 players.

[TridusSWTOR]

L2comprehend I guess? I think I summarized the types of people who complain about premades well. There are other types of solo queuers, but they understand what is going on and don't blame everything on premades. Not to mention, I specifically told you how matchmaking would benefit each of these types of players whereas a solo queue would simply split up the population and increase queue times.

 

None of these were insults, in fact I specifically mentioned players with skill. The fact is, there is a wide range of skill levels that complain about premades, but they are a scapegoat for the real problems that exist. A tank/healer combo doesn't have to be in VOIP and have 500 games played together to be effective if they know what they're doing. So the bad players complain because the other team is too good and the good players complain because the players on their team are bad.

 

And there are plenty of terrible premades out there just looking to have fun and enjoy the game. Putting them in a queue with good premades certainly doesn't help them. Just like putting solo queuers in a queue with the best solo queuers in the game doesn't help them. The best players are the ones that know how to play as a team, even if they aren't queued as one. They can focus fire, peel, and use the right abilities at the right times in PUGs. That's why one queue with some sort of matchmaking is a far better solution. Let me know when we have 5 million people in one queue and we can have a solo queue, duo queue, trio queue, and every queue you can think of.

 

I love how you say you aren't insulting, yet, literally, the first word you typed is insulting.

 

Oh the irony.

 

Honestly you are better than this, I know you can provide some substance when you actually try. So come on...try getting into this discussion.

 

Wonder why PVP is in it's current state today? Because people aren't lured into PVP, when they join it's usually with people more familiar with the warzones/classes than they are. Then they run into organized groups that can easily spawn camp them, but the only response to that is "Well...that's part of learning".

 

You are afraid of queue times which would stay the same, even if you put in matchmaking. Why? Because you aren't luring in new blood. Matchmaking is more of the same, it's a cute label, but it's flawed. You aren't going to bringing in more people with matchmaking alone, since they can still get paired up with lopsided matches. Solo queue on the other hand, will offer a good taste of PVP for the new comer whom can eventually start doing group PVP.

 

So like I said, be a good boy, and try.

[TridusSWTOR]

While this game is an MMO, a player can go from 1-55 without grouping with anyone. That, in effect, makes the MMO a single player game for them.

 

In PvP, if a player does only what they want without regard to their team mates, objectives, or anything else, then it has essentially, became a single player game for them as well. While they might be playing against and with other players it is only their goals and how they want to play that they take into account.

 

They are concerned with the singular aspect of the game in what they want to do with everything else being secondary.

 

If their goals are hindered, for whatever reason, in this case premades, they take offense even though there are features within the game that would allow them to overcome this obstacle.

 

If they do not want to use those features, then that is on them and if a person refuses to use, or discounts, the MMO aspects of a game then that game has, essentially become a single person one.

 

So you were making things up and now agree that people aren't wanting a single player game.

 

Gotcha.

[Jadescythe]

I love how you say you aren't insulting, yet, literally, the first word you typed is insulting.

 

Oh the irony.

 

Honestly you are better than this, I know you can provide some substance when you actually try. So come on...try getting into this discussion.

 

Wonder why PVP is in it's current state today? Because people aren't lured into PVP, when they join it's usually with people more familiar with the warzones/classes than they are. Then they run into organized groups that can easily spawn camp them, but the only response to that is "Well...that's part of learning".

 

You are afraid of queue times which would stay the same, even if you put in matchmaking. Why? Because you aren't luring in new blood. Matchmaking is more of the same, it's a cute label, but it's flawed. You aren't going to bringing in more people with matchmaking alone, since they can still get paired up with lopsided matches. Solo queue on the other hand, will offer a good taste of PVP for the new comer whom can eventually start doing group PVP.

 

So like I said, be a good boy, and try.

 

I stated that nothing in my previous post was an insult to players. I did not say the same of the post you quoted. Perhaps you misunderstand what I call matchmaking (which would be hidden ratings). Nice to know that you're fine with new players trying PvP only to get facestomped by good players as long as they weren't grouped up beforehand.

 

You don't even have to be average to stomp bad players in PvP (ask the two 50s that tried to jump my 48 VG on Voss yesterday). I'd like to see new players matched up with bad players at first to see how they do and if they are well above them in skill, continue moving them up until they get to their equilibrium in terms of matching evenly. Having a solo queue still throws you to the dogs.

 

I can't say it enough. There is no problem with groups mixing with PUGs provided everyone is at the same skill level. Solo queue does not stop bads from playing goods, therefore it does not solve the problem and only reduces that amount of players in each queue. Perhaps you should read what I write rather than focus on the fact that I think premades and PUGs in one queue is fine.