HuaRya Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I was posting this to see what PVP'ers think of folks who intermingle their PVE gear with PVP. On a few occasions I've gotten acerbic remarks insinuating that I should be fully geared in recruit gear instead of mixing black hole items. Is this correct? Because my overall damage is greatly reduced when switching to the basic recruit gear. No insults intended I'm just trying to seek the correct answer. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heechJunzi Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Black hole gear was certainly superior to the original recruit gear. The comparison with the new MK-2 is probably a lot closer, however.... In any case, you'll want to switch to battlemaster as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventvisor Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I don't know the answer...however I do know what the responses will be. Answer 1- Expertise trumps all, your an idiot for wearing anything with out it Answer 2- If you mix and match just right, and keep exp at this magic number you'll be fine. My answer---see what works best for you and don't rely on forums for the answer. I won't get a straight answer, even though someone is probably right. BUt figuring out which person is tough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) I've PvP'ed on my sage and sorc in nothing but BH and the WH relics the last couple of days and so far I've won 75 % and been top dps in 90 % and never outside top 2 (not counting the game where we three cpapped and I sat on an empty node all game). I was 280K ahead of second best dps in one game. I find it hard to believe that everyone I played with and against was wearing recruit. I die fast regardless of damage reduction on these classes so it might be different for a class that can take a punch. Should also be noted that I've taken several +8K hits. But, there's also been games in which I havent died a single time. Edited October 15, 2012 by MidichIorian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealios Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) I'd say keep the blackhole armor until you get BM, but switch the relics, implants etc. The reason behind this is that without any expertise you will melt. However going full recruit and losing about 6k HP + other stats isn't really worth it for just 800/900 expertise and crappy stats. (but that's my opinion) EDIT: also reason why most people say: 'get recruit you idiot' is not because of dmg loss, but because lack of survivability. However they usually forget that players in full recruit die as quick as players in let's say full rakata. Edited October 15, 2012 by Stealios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeochins Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I'd say keep the blackhole armor until you get BM, but switch the relics, implants etc. The reason behind this is that without any expertise you will melt. However going full recruit and losing about 6k HP + other stats isn't really worth it for just 800/900 expertise and crappy stats. (but that's my opinion) EDIT: also reason why most people say: 'get recruit you idiot' is not because of dmg loss, but because lack of survivability. However they usually forget that players in full recruit die as quick as players in let's say full rakata. People in recruit are easier to heal for healers than people in BH gear. The only heal that is better wearing BH gear is the marauder heal on critical bleed with berserk. All other heals when comparing BH gear to Recruit MK-II make Recruit gear superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealios Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 People in recruit are easier to heal for healers than people in BH gear. The only heal that is better wearing BH gear is the marauder heal on critical bleed with berserk. All other heals when comparing BH gear to Recruit MK-II make Recruit gear superior. Healing done on those people by healers is exactly the same, only on BH gear the health will drop off quicker again, therefore I'm saying go half/half. Since from my healing experience: people in recruit gear die within 3 seconds if you're not on top of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I was posting this to see what PVP'ers think of folks who intermingle their PVE gear with PVP. On a few occasions I've gotten acerbic remarks insinuating that I should be fully geared in recruit gear instead of mixing black hole items. Is this correct? Because my overall damage is greatly reduced when switching to the basic recruit gear. No insults intended I'm just trying to seek the correct answer. Thank you. No. Never intentionally nerf yourself for stupidity and lack of game knowledge by those types. Recruit gear is on par with Rakata gear when it comes to healing/damage output. The ONLY debate is whether HP or mitigation is better, but I always explain that you are trading HP in the thousands for mitigation in the hundreds. To each his own, but Ill take the HP if the damage/heal output will be on the same level. I know healers will poo-poo it, but seriously, healers have no real way to quantify how much "easier" (but I am sure they will try)it is to keep a recruit up versus a RAK+ player up. The fact that the HP difference is huge makes their stance somewhat dubious (15% mitigation for 20%+ loss in HP), let alone that you are not healed all the time, even if there is a healer present in a WZ. There is a lot of conditions for it to actually "matter" so in the end, take the HP and damage/heal output from Black Hole, and only replace those with optimized BM parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnitudeZero Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Going from Rakata - BM the only noticeable difference for me is the Damage output, even that is marginal, Survivability is better, I chose to wear Rakata over Champion, and also MK-1, personal choice, and as a healer I'd probably may even take Blackhole over MK-2 given the choice again, but MK-2 is really good, and I can't really say. It probably depends more on what you play and how you play it, but if you're new to PvP I'd definately take the Recruit over Blackhole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_y Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 The other nice thing about wearing Black Hole is you may be willing to augment your BH pieces since you'll use them for PvE for quite a while, but you would never augment recruit. So, there's a nice little extra bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 The other nice thing about wearing Black Hole is you may be willing to augment your BH pieces since you'll use them for PvE for quite a while, but you would never augment recruit. So, there's a nice little extra bonus. And Medpacks/talents scale better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryvirath Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Switch out 2 implants, earpiece, and both relics for mk-2 recruit. That'll give you the 'best' part of the expertise curve without compromising your BH stats too much. Then put a priority on replacing the implants and earpiece with the battlemaster version and augment them. At that point you'll be pretty solid stat wise. I'd suggest augmenting the champion relics and upgrading them last; just go straight to WH with those. After the earpiece/implants, upgrade head to feet with a priority on whichever of those pieces has the best stat distribution for you. One more thing, you'll want to keep your BH mainhand/offhand until you can go straight to the WH version (don't buy the BM) so it will probably be later on your list of upgrades. Edited October 15, 2012 by Ryvirath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiriusNazriel Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I've PvP'ed on my sage and sorc in nothing but BH and the WH relics the last couple of days and so far I've won 75 % and been top dps in 90 % and never outside top 2 (not counting the game where we three cpapped and I sat on an empty node all game). I was 280K ahead of second best dps in one game. I find it hard to believe that everyone I played with and against was wearing recruit. I die fast regardless of damage reduction on these classes so it might be different for a class that can take a punch. Should also be noted that I've taken several +8K hits. But, there's also been games in which I havent died a single time. What server are you running on? I need to transerfer there for a game or two lol. That is horrrrribad players you're in WZs win. Not surprised, I see it all the time, but seriously BH and that much ahead of nearest guy? Horribad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 What server are you running on? I need to transerfer there for a game or two lol. That is horrrrribad players you're in WZs win. Not surprised, I see it all the time, but seriously BH and that much ahead of nearest guy? Horribad! He is saying that he is outpacing players more than likely geared to recruit/BM (and most likely some WH) in his "PvE set", so why wear recruit? That has nothing to do with "skill", just simple math. You have significantly more potential with BH than recruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaRya Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) thumbs up doing that now. is there a minimum number of expertise to have in order to be competitive? Edited October 15, 2012 by HuaRya wrong quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yiffinator Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I rather have a person wearing the mk2 recruit gear than a fully augmented BH honestly. From my heals perspective I have a better time healing a recruit than I do a PVE geared person. You're very low on my priority list if you do decide to walk in with pve gear. You'll probably die from neglect if you don't fend for yourself. If I play triage, you're the first I let die. However if you happen to get your **** together by keeping me alive, I'll do the same. Other than that, you're really useless to the team but a meatshield for the opponents to hawk on while we burn down the other team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SovereignConvict Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I don't know the answer...however I do know what the responses will be. Answer 1- Expertise trumps all, your an idiot for wearing anything with out it Answer 2- If you mix and match just right, and keep exp at this magic number you'll be fine. My answer---see what works best for you and don't rely on forums for the answer. I won't get a straight answer, even though someone is probably right. BUt figuring out which person is tough ^ This is the only accurate response to your question that I've ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokamon Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 One more thing, you'll want to keep your BH mainhand/offhand until you can go straight to the WH version (don't buy the BM) so it will probably be later on your list of upgrades. Wouldn't you need the BM ones to get the WH ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 thumbs up doing that now. is there a minimum number of expertise to have in order to be competitive? You are already competitive with BM (truth be told), so "WH" is your progression. Only carry expertise if you are moving up a tier. So basically if you are at BH already, I would only swap those for WH(and only in a few specific cases), and use WH relics are BiS for PvP & PvE right now. People disagree with me, but I say the only truly BiS PvP items are WH relics/ears/implants (and not by a significant amount either. My sig line shows a three piece trade off for BM/RAK (around the 600-700EXP) after they changed to expertise curve. The output change was minor). On modifiable pieces, BiS is PvE Armoring, PvP mods/enh. That will get you around 900EXP. Just keep in mind, your output is what matters. you could believe me and save the comms or but siad PvP piece and take the tool tip rating and multiply it by the PvP EXP boost for an attack/heal, then swap ur BH gear and see what the attack/heal rating is. You might be shocked to find out......It is not always good to carry EXP!!!! PS: Ignore the naysayers that think you should wear recruit gear to mitigate a 7K smash...LOL I rather lose 35% of my HP versus 50%+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderKeeva Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Black Hole gear = die in 4 GCDs. Enjoy the 7k Rail Shots. Recruit gear = die in 5 GCDs. Enjoy the 5k Rail Shots. Take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I rather have a person wearing the mk2 recruit gear than a fully augmented BH honestly. From my heals perspective I have a better time healing a recruit than I do a PVE geared person. You're very low on my priority list if you do decide to walk in with pve gear. You'll probably die from neglect if you don't fend for yourself. If I play triage, you're the first I let die. However if you happen to get your **** together by keeping me alive, I'll do the same. Other than that, you're really useless to the team but a meatshield for the opponents to hawk on while we burn down the other team. I knew the healers would come out... Its all observations though. 1. One glaring fact is that he can survive x amount more globals before needing to be healed. (i.e. surviving longer or just as long as a recruit) BH players have 26K HP versus 13K on recruit. 50% HP (ten thousands order of magnitude) for 10% mitigation(on attacks rated in the hundreds or thousands). Really? 2. Healers CAN'T solo heal a recruit through a focus. In any outnumbered situation, they will die just as fast as a PvE geared player. 3. A recruit needs to be babysat 100% of the time, because one crit and they need a visit. The same ain't true if you are in RAK+ gear, who can actually take three crits (massive ones at that). So how exactly is it "easier"? In a zergfest? We are talking about a BH for Recruit trade off. Not a 50 greens v. recruit. Nerf their output (whether damage or heals)for inbound healing, when it is highly situational (Got healer in a WZ?)when mitigation might help? Your job as a DPS is to deal damage. Your job as a healer is to deal heals. Choose the best gear to deal most damage/heals. Period... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Black Hole gear = die in 4 GCDs. Enjoy the 7k Rail Shots. Recruit gear = die in 5 GCDs. Enjoy the 5k Rail Shots. Take your pick. Nice maths... too bad it all imagined. Please show a recruit set that has 28% mitigation on it. BH= Die in 4 GCD(28K HP) RECRUIT= Die in 3GCD(15K) Nice try though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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