What if.....

[Nateous]

We had a buff to fletchette round whereby if a player died with it up, it refreshed automatically or even rewarded x energy? I recall a similar game had a similar ability.

 

It's widely known that our energy management is a make our break for this class. It hampers our burst and sustained damage potential as well as becomes incredibly more difficult for keeping up with multi targets.

 

I've been on the operative forums and they have a bunch of interesting ideas on how we could better our respective specs. But it seems we can all agree that while the sprint buff is nice and all, it's more a pity buff and doesn't really heap with our true concerns.

 

What do you think?

[Coldin]

Wouldn't really help in boss battles. Only a few of them have frequent trash mobs to kill, and that's usually a good opportunity to build energy back up. A scoundrel should be using Flechette Round whenever Backblast is up anyway, so keeping the buff isn't that big an issue either.

 

That said, they could certainly change it around. If Flechette Round armor pen was turned into a debuff, it would make a Scrapper a bit more useful in a group context. If they made it trigger off of Tendon Blast, we could apply the bleed more frequently. I'd ask for our 50% armor penetration back, but other classes are getting their armor pen changed to 30%.

 

Energy just need to be tackled on it's own. We already have our Pugnacity buff. Increasing it's energy restore would be helpful. Making our dots have an energy restore would also help. Beyond that, simply reducing some of the energy requirements on the more expensive skills would go a long way.

[oaceen]

the energy return on fight or flight was really awful, but even that was removed.

 

i think a really quick and easy fix to energy management would be to provide energy return or a cost-reduction to an ability on flying fists

 

5 or 10 energy return or a reduction of 5 or 10 energy on the next sucker punch or quickshot, for example

 

 

 

i would also like flechette round attached to tendon blast so we can keep flechette round's dot up at all times. it would help immensely on fights where we can't be behind the target

 

and i would actually be 100% ok with flechette round's debuff being a 20% armor reduction debuff instead of 30% armor penetration buff. would give us a lot of utility for group fights

Edited October 10, 2012 by oaceen

[pqgarvis]

They should just make Flechette round free (no energy)

 

The attacks that apply flechette have cooldowns( shoot first = 7.5s, Back blast 15s)

 

so this change would only benefit us from an energy standpoint (substained)

[Azaranth]

so this change would only benefit us from an energy standpoint (substained)

 

Is this a PVP question? Because in PvE, our dps is fine and energy management isn't particularly difficult.

[Nateous]

Is this a PVP question? Because in PvE, our dps is fine and energy management isn't particularly difficult.

 

Aww I used to think like you, all optimistic and full of hope. I know it's hard to believe, but our class is really lacking in all areas in terms of pve and pvp. We don't even match the damage output of our own class (gs).

 

Put it another way....if you have a class whereby your only means at your disposal to avoid dropping energy lvls is to dodge, and resort to flurry of bolts in between attacks there's a serious problem. Yes yes cool head and pugnacity I know, but ch is really an "oh ****" button for saving your ads or 4ever of bursty goodness. And pugnacity will help, but really only if your around the 65-70%.

 

What I mean is this, our current design is centered around being bursty, and all the tools we have at our disposal maintain the status quo of that design, but the game has evolved to a point where our burst potential is negligible. And the utility we provide is easily matched by other classes. Case in point, I was one of the prime raiders in my guild, knocking out content left and right, until Denova hm, whereby my bh/rakata scrapper was replaced by a slightly lesser guild guardian dps because of his ability to taunt the tanks. I am heals now, but I long corp the day when I can come back swinging, fists a' flying.

[warultima]

Our burst isnt particular great even if it's without our max regen tier.

Dropping below 60 energy instantly terribly nerf our sustained damage as well.

Linear energy regeneration could be a good change.

 

Or give us a new 10m close range "auto attack" that we fire with our shotguns (or vibroknife for operative) that gives us small amount of energy back doing same damage as flurry of bolts/rifle shot. Basically giving up the 30m range for a small energy regen while our burst potential is unchanged with better sustained damage and further emphasize our "melee oriented" AC.

[pqgarvis]

Is this a PVP question? Because in PvE, our dps is fine and energy management isn't particularly difficult.

 

I don't PVE, but if you find yourself fine with energy management I will go out on a limb and say your not using all of your tools (skills) at your disposal.

[thendrix]

They should just make Flechette round free (no energy)

 

The attacks that apply flechette have cooldowns( shoot first = 7.5s, Back blast 15s)

 

so this change would only benefit us from an energy standpoint (substained)

 

It used to be free based on your build, that was nerfed with 1.2 if i remember correctly.

[Azaranth]

I don't PVE, but if you find yourself fine with energy management I will go out on a limb and say your not using all of your tools (skills) at your disposal.

 

Some classes are cooldown limited, some are resources limited. This is by design. Scrapper is a resource limited class.

 

Scrapper DPS keeps up just fine in fights where you dont' lose a bunch of time running around. In those fights, ranged DPS definitely pull ahead. But in more patchwerk-esque fights, Scrapper dps is great.

 

I frankly don't understand the concern.

 

Disclaimer 1: I'm only referring to PVE.

Disclaimer 2: I've been playing a Smuggler since beta.

[Coldin]

It used to be free based on your build, that was nerfed with 1.2 if i remember correctly.

 

Backblast was free, and Flechette Round was cheaper. Pugnacity also used to restore an extra bit of energy per tick with the right talents.

[RendValor]

Some classes are cooldown limited, some are resources limited. This is by design. Scrapper is a resource limited class.

 

Scrapper DPS keeps up just fine in fights where you dont' lose a bunch of time running around. In those fights, ranged DPS definitely pull ahead. But in more patchwerk-esque fights, Scrapper dps is great.

 

I frankly don't understand the concern.

 

Disclaimer 1: I'm only referring to PVE.

Disclaimer 2: I've been playing a Smuggler since beta.

 

Have you ever parsed your numbers against a competent Vanguard or Sentinel? they have great DPS, Scoundrels don't.

Edited October 29, 2012 by RendValor

[Meepbot]

Have you ever parsed your numbers against a competent Vanguard or Sentinel? there is no comparisson

 

Its the same with sorcs, sins, vengeance juggs, and mercs. whats your point?

[RendValor]

Its the same with sorcs, sins, vengeance juggs, and mercs. whats your point?

My point is, if I really have to spell it out, that a Scoundrel being surpassed by all those classes you mentioned clearly point that our DPS is anything but "great"

[Meepbot]

My point is, if I really have to spell it out, that a Scoundrel being surpassed by all those classes you mentioned clearly point that our DPS is anything but "great"

 

Sorry, maybe I was unclear. My point was that compared to a good marauder or powertech, all those classes are subpar DPS wise. Also, he never said it was great, he just said it was fine. in a PvE setting, which to be honest I havent tested myself.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Meepbot

[RendValor]

Scrapper DPS keeps up just fine in fights where you dont' lose a bunch of time running around. In those fights, ranged DPS definitely pull ahead. But in more patchwerk-esque fights, Scrapper dps is great.

 

There.

 

I run in a high end raiding guild. I play a Scoundrel Scrapper and a Focus Guardian.

 

On the Ops dummy I break 1600 DPS on the guardian (in half rakata/BH) while as a Scrapper I barely push 1300 (in mostly BH). Most of my other guildmates (sages, gunslingers, commandos) average around 1450, while the heavy hitters (sentinels, vanguards) break the 1800 mark

Edited October 30, 2012 by RendValor

[warultima]

Scrapper dps is great.

 

 

Rofl. Scrapper dps is great if your sentinel/gunslinger/commando friends fail big time and have no idea how to play as dps on those classes,

Edited October 30, 2012 by warultima

[Azaranth]

There.

 

I run in a high end raiding guild. I play a Scoundrel Scrapper and a Focus Guardian.

 

On the Ops dummy I break 1600 DPS on the guardian (in half rakata/BH) while as a Scrapper I barely push 1300 (in mostly BH). Most of my other guildmates (sages, gunslingers, commandos) average around 1450, while the heavy hitters (sentinels, vanguards) break the 1800 mark

 

There's not a nice way to put this... but if you're only hitting 1300 on a dummy with a Scrapper, you're not playing a Scrapper very well. I honestly don't mean to start a flame war here, but you're either mistakenly remembering the wrong number, or you're doing something wrong. You mention Black Hole gear, but say you're in a high-end raiding guild. Do you have the campaign set bonuses? Do you have aug slots on all that gear?

 

Default Campaign/BH gear is extremely poorly itemized. It has about 200 more accuracy than you actually need, a bunch of really bad high-endurance armorings and mods, and an awful 4-piece set bonus. You should be using 2x Campaign armorings and 2x Skill Armorings in battlemaster Field Tech shells for set bonuses. You should be running around 120 accuracy and the rest in surge, which usually means 2x accuracy implants and 7x Advanced Adept Enhancements.

 

Sentinels do crazy DPS. Scrapper dps don't compare, but neither does anyone else. If you're comparing Scrapper dps to sages, gunslingers, commandos, etc - our dps is right in line.

 

I'll grant you two points on this subject:

 

1) It's a lot harder to do competitive dps on a scrapper than a commando. Part of this is the class complexity, and part of this is absolutely horrid itemization that you have to correct.

 

2) Sentinels probably need a nerf. 2 of their specs parse over 1800 dummy dps, which is ridiculous. I'm not here to whine about sents though. My point is just to suggest that - excluding the sentinels - our dps is right in line with everyone else.