Himeji_Endless Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Aloha all, Long time rage juggy who made a recent switch to vengeance and am loving it ... i ran across this while speccing and just want some confirmation / input on whether its possible to get 100% crit on our finisher, vicious throw. - impale or shatter to activate savagery which gives 60% crit to vicious throw - brutality in the rage tree for +15% crit to vicious throw - regular 25%+ natural crit = 100% crit chance? or does other things detract from it or mitigate that chance? I know its energy damage and can be mitigated, but besides that is there anything im missing? I'm trying to get that % high so that finishing people quicker may translate to more wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banivisa Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 The amount of other stats you would be losing to gain 40% crit wouldn't be worth it. Especially on an ability that can only be used when someone is @30% or less health and has a cd. Shoot for high 20's or low 30's and call it a day. Also if this is for PvP..there really isn't much reason to be putting more then 25 pts in Veng. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karasuko Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Aloha all, Long time rage juggy who made a recent switch to vengeance and am loving it ... i ran across this while speccing and just want some confirmation / input on whether its possible to get 100% crit on our finisher, vicious throw. - impale or shatter to activate savagery which gives 60% crit to vicious throw - brutality in the rage tree for +15% crit to vicious throw - regular 25%+ natural crit = 100% crit chance? or does other things detract from it or mitigate that chance? I know its energy damage and can be mitigated, but besides that is there anything im missing? I'm trying to get that % high so that finishing people quicker may translate to more wins. Yes it's possible, is it worth it? no clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenFry Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) +60% crit chance to Vicious Throw is plenty to get you to 100%, you don't need to jump through any hoops. Remember that it's a Force ability, which means you also are getting some crit% from your Willpower and from Malice. Edited October 2, 2012 by CitizenFry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CellPerfect Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 +60% crit chance to Vicious Throw is plenty to get you to 100%, you don't need to jump through any hoops. Remember that it's a Force ability, which means you also are getting some crit% from your Willpower and from Malice. Vicious Throw is melee damage not force so it does not benefit from malice. As others have said dont worry about trying to get it to a 100% crit chance. With 30% crit and a 60% increase to that ability you will have a 90% chance which is close enough to an auto crit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marqhill Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 +60% crit chance to Vicious Throw is plenty to get you to 100%, you don't need to jump through any hoops. Remember that it's a Force ability, which means you also are getting some crit% from your Willpower and from Malice. Dispatch/Vicious Throw is NOT a force attack. It's a melee attack. If you'll notice the damage from the ability that shows up is white. Force/Tech damage is yellow. Now, about having a 100% critical hit chance on Vicious Throw I would say that it's not worth it. I tried it and it worked ok but honestly having a 90 - 95% critical hit chance on the ability is enough. For Vengeance/Vigilance a critical hit chance of 25% - 30% is more than sufficient. When you get the smuggler buff your crit chance should be about 30 - 35%. The amount of stats you have to drop to get the extra 5% critical hit chance to put you up to 100% is too much considering the diminishing returns on crit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenFry Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 ...hmm. Good point. Guess I was conflating it with Force Scream. Anyway, I don't miss crits on Vicious Throw very often with +60% crit chance (most of my raid logs don't have even a single non-crit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Himeji_Endless Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the feedback - i think i want to make one thing clear ... im not talking about stats as much as taking Brutality in the 2nd tier of the rage tree for that added 15% bonus - i'd rather not miss any crits on my finisher as sometimes against better teams / players that little bit of damage + time makes all the difference. Should i move those 2 points into Enraged Sunder in the immortal tree for the added rage? Or one more point in Sundering Throw as saber throw is super important in Vengeance? I'm currently toying w/ this build and am learning the vengeance ropes after being a long time rage player. I have to say that im very happy w/ the overall performance of the vengeance spec. http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Juggernaut#2-7kdcje6e2f-200k anyone wants to comment or add insight, pls feel free to. and thanks for the replies so far. Edited October 2, 2012 by Himeji_Endless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Himeji_Endless Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 The amount of other stats you would be losing to gain 40% crit wouldn't be worth it. Especially on an ability that can only be used when someone is @30% or less health and has a cd. Shoot for high 20's or low 30's and call it a day. Also if this is for PvP..there really isn't much reason to be putting more then 25 pts in Veng. Ya this is for PVP and the finisher to me is the most important attack as that removes the player from doing any more damage, healing, objective grabbing, cc'ing etc and the cooldown is super short anyways. This is a strength of the vengeance build from what im seeing and while im not spending stat points to get there, i am concerned about the 2 points in brutality being better used elsewhere if there are suggestions. Ya my normal crit is 25% unbuffed and i am aiming to unlock that class buff for 30% ... im just looking for ways to become a more effective dps/killing machine, that's all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyx Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Aloha all, Long time rage juggy who made a recent switch to vengeance and am loving it ... i ran across this while speccing and just want some confirmation / input on whether its possible to get 100% crit on our finisher, vicious throw. - impale or shatter to activate savagery which gives 60% crit to vicious throw - brutality in the rage tree for +15% crit to vicious throw - regular 25%+ natural crit = 100% crit chance? or does other things detract from it or mitigate that chance? I know its energy damage and can be mitigated, but besides that is there anything im missing? I'm trying to get that % high so that finishing people quicker may translate to more wins. yes. it is 100%, and it's a viable strat. not sure at this point what you give up for that, because those last few points are tight when your squeezing out every last bit of DPS you can get. you will either have to trade off a reduction on your smash CD (and increased damage on same), or reduction in your ravage CD (meh...its nice when your unlucky but other then that probably the best option), reduce your crit on force attacks, or lose an extra rage every sunder. out of all of those, the ravage CDis probably the easiest to give up. I've been considering that move myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Himeji_Endless Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 Thanks Elyx I was wondering if i trade out the 2 points in brutality for approx 85~90% crit chance, what might i put it into? - Would 1 pt for the free smash be worth it? Does vengeance use smash as part of their rotation? - 1 more point in Sundering Throw as that's a main component in the vengeance rotation? - 2 points for the force scream mini bleed add on via Draining Scream? I kinda like the bleed theme haha - 2 points in enraged sunder for that extra 1 rage? Would like feedback from experienced pvp players for maximum dps/killing efficiency. My current spec is here, but am open to tweaking it for effectiveness within my playstyle. http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/ecce3be2-251b-46bf-a57f-efa4f9eb796a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korban_HoD Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Vicious Throw is not Vicious Slash. Read the Brutality talent again. It does not affect Vicious Throw - only Vicious Slash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marqhill Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Vicious Throw is not Vicious Slash. Read the Brutality talent again. It does not affect Vicious Throw - only Vicious Slash As of Patch 1.4 Vicious Slash and Vicious throw are both affected by Brutality. Additionally Saber Strength applies it's benefit to Vicious Throw as well as Slash and Saber Strength. Now, as interesting as that is to pick up Brutality in the Rage tree I kind of feel like it's a little bit of an overkill. I guess it would be nice to have that flat 45% critical hit chance on Dispatch but personally I like to have the DOT's instead. A lot of people dont like to get the DOT's in the Vengeance tree but the damage does add up when you're trying to take down a single target. I've seen plasma single ticks of Shatter go for about 500 damage while Draining Scream and Eviscerate are going it's a lot of elemental damage. Feel free to give it a try and let me know ho it goes. I may give it a try myself with one of my free respecs that I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Himeji_Endless Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 Thanks marqhill! Ya I wanted to go w/ the whole bleed thing for constant added damage, but wonder if the scream one is worth the points for the small amount of damage it does considering the time factor it needs to be set up and to run its course. in 50 pvp, killing happens so fast and efficiently that sometimes we're not alive long enough to bleed someone out. This is what ive seen so far ... throw saber, leap in, ravage while they're rooted, shatter to start bleed and to try to reset ravage, impale for bleed and ravage reset, (ravage if reset anywhere), hopefully a crit force scream, then execute or what not. I just feel the scream comes so late in the rotation that the bleed for 2 talent pts is wasted and its beat by damage even by a free smash or something else. All i seem to remember or notice are targets >30% and those are the ones ill try to take out quickly, thus my obsession w/ the 100% crit execute haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korban_HoD Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dire Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 If its for PvP do not spec Malice or Brutality. You don't need it and its wasteful. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reli_BOON Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 If you play the dots in Veng spec do Spec Malice. It does more than one might think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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