Please Completely REMOVE PvP from SWTOR

[Moriganno]

I love PvP in Swtor and I find your post to be irrelevant. Stay in your pve

[Anzel]

Sounds like the OP is bad at pvp, therefore since he doesn't enjoy it he doesn't want anyone else to.

 

Ahhhh yes, the typical troll response. I suck at PvP and therefor want it removed. No... SWTOR sucks at PvP. The fact that they are refunding skill points with every single game update illustrates just how terrible EA/BW has been at "balancing PvP". They are "bad at pvp"... not me.

 

BioWare: Decide what your game should be. I'm sure that you can see by now that your game cannot be all things to all people. You have failed at that. Accept it. Accept that and make a game that will appeal to your actual customer base. The people who bought KOTOR in droves are your customers. The people who bought the Mass Effect games in droves are your customers. Make an online version of those games and you will find the success you've been chasing these past 6 (or more) years. Can you really not see this???

[ScarletBlaze]

I don't like pvp and will not do it but I do not want it removed from the game. Some people enjoy it and it really doesn't affect me unless like in the new patch (hk-51) I have to go to a pvp zone to get something from a vendor.

 

People enjoy different things and I don't see any reason to remove it.

 

What most of the problem is between pvp and pve players (not to mention rp) is the lack of respect for the other player and their playing style.

 

It is like each group has to make comments if someone doesn't like something and make rude and disprespectful comments about what someone likes. What we need to do is be tolerant and understanding of how someone else plays.

Edited October 15, 2012 by ScarletBlaze

[AstralProjection]

Actually, PvPers are the ideal customers of an MMO. The term "content locusts" has been thrown around many times in many MMO forums, and while it's an insulting term, it's pretty much spot on. PvE content takes the longest to develop and the shortest time to consume, and once the PvE players have farmed a raid or dungeon several times it ceases to be fun, so they go to another game to occupy themselves until the next "content" update.

 

PvPers, on the other hand, are best customers you could possibly have. Our enjoyment of the game comes from the game mechanics, team composition, and community both same-faction and cross-faction. We've entertained ourselves for 10 months with only 4 warzones. We build community in a way that PvE never can - and yes, community comes from rivalries and friendships. Not competition for raid spots, guild poaching, loot councils, favoritism, and power struggles.

 

I used to exclusively be a hardcore PvE raider in World of Warcraft. Those days are over - no studio can possibly develop enough content to keep the min/maxer, content-locust from devouring any PvE content in the same week it is released and having "nothing to do" until the next major patch. With PvP, the sky's the limit. We'll keep pushing to get better and better skill-wise for competition's sake, rather than pushing harder and harder to improve our character's stats so that we can "run that boring dungeon for the 100th time a bit faster".

 

Basically, this. It's hilarious the OP's complaining about PVP while the PVEers keep getting all the content patches. The PVPers have sat here and waited for months to get one new warzone added and a half-implemented ranking system.

 

If they had added Lost Island and half of a Denova and that's it this year all you PVEers would've run off crying right away.

 

PVE belongs on Consoles where you can all team up and have your little Co-Op PVE games. The entire thrust of PVE is purely greed based and discourages Community Interaction. People only do PVE to get more itamz, and once they've run it a few times, never go back to it. Meanwhile people who have been geared up in PVP for months are still queuing the same couple maps because we love to do it, not because we're chasing shiny things.

 

Why would you want to play against an opponent that always does the same thing? Talk about boring.

 

I hear clueless PVEers complain about how "PVP balancing affects my game" all the time. You want to know why that is? Because the whole stupid game is designed in a flawed manner around your silly interactions with AI. If this game hadn't been a WoW clone of the holy trinity class system, which designs healers and tanks to be near-bottomless reservoirs of hitpoints, PVP would be a thousand times easier to balance. Instead, with your measly 20-30k HP, you're designed to combat enemies with hundreds of thousands of hitpoints, throwing off OUR balance inherently from day one.

 

Yeah, that's right, despite pre-launch promises of PVE not being a bunch of tools standing around a giant boss whacking it mindlessly, and then dancing away from circles, that's exactly what you got. If they had created more Star-Warsy encounters with AI that involved waves and waves of smaller enemies, perhaps PVE would've had a less devastating effect on efforts to balance PVP.

 

Cry me a river.

Edited October 15, 2012 by AstralProjection

[Ismercu]

Dumbest thread ever. I petition to remove OP completely from SWTOR

[jgoldsack]

Ahhhh yes, the typical troll response. I suck at PvP and therefor want it removed. No... SWTOR sucks at PvP. The fact that they are refunding skill points with every single game update illustrates just how terrible EA/BW has been at "balancing PvP". They are "bad at pvp"... not me.

 

BioWare: Decide what your game should be. I'm sure that you can see by now that your game cannot be all things to all people. You have failed at that. Accept it. Accept that and make a game that will appeal to your actual customer base. The people who bought KOTOR in droves are your customers. The people who bought the Mass Effect games in droves are your customers. Make an online version of those games and you will find the success you've been chasing these past 6 (or more) years. Can you really not see this???

 

I played NWN, KOTOR, Mass Effect.. and I exclusively PvP in SWTOR.

 

I have just thrown your argument out the window.

[Anzel]

I played NWN, KOTOR, Mass Effect.. and I exclusively PvP in SWTOR.

 

I have just thrown your argument out the window.

 

My argument? My argument is that they are unable to properly balance PvP in SWTOR. My argument is supported by the FACT that they've butchered the skill trees so badly in the past three game updates that they've had to refund skill points for everyone. Not just PvP'ers. Those are facts.

 

My argument is that features have been removed from this game because of PvP as referenced by the links in my OP. That is a fact.

 

My argument is that PvP'ers will NEVER be happy with balance in this game because this game is trying to accomplish too much. The scope is completely out of control and the game has failed. We went from over 200+ servers to 8. That is a fact.

 

What games you play with yourself at home have nothing to do with my argument.

[Anzel]

Dumbest thread ever. I petition to remove OP completely from SWTOR

 

I'm making a legitimate argument backed up by facts. I don't appreciate being called names and being trolled. Thanks.

[Toraak]

Now, instead of demanding that PvP be removed, you should instead be demanding that they make a separate skill tree JUST for pvp, and make skills behave one way in PvE, and another in PvP. Then we could have both living together in harmony.

 

To demand that an integral part of the MMO experience be removed because it messes up your PvE just shows you to be a fool.

 

Have to fully agree on different Skill tree's for PvE, and PvP, and how Abilities should work differently between PvP, and PvE is the better route to go then completely removing PvP from the game. Personally 1 of the changes made due to PvP that I didn't like for PvE recently is the shorter range on CC's. A sage in PvE should never need to be within 10 meters. It just goes against being a ranged character.

[Xenith]

I watched in horror for over two years while the team over at SOE and LucasArts tried to "balance" and "re-balance" and "re-balance the entire game just to satisfy the so-called "PvP Community". This "balance" was never achieved and the "community" was never satisfied. Ever. Ultimately we ended up with the NGE which was almost as popular as New Coke and the rest is history.

 

One of my greatest fears for SWTOR was that EA/BioWare would fall into the same trap and suffer this never ending cycle of balance and re-balance. Early on during beta we had Georg Zoeller and others that kept the community in line. They didn't cave into every little cry of, "Nerf this" and "Nerf that". For the most part things went smoothly.

 

However, during the last three game updates we have seen changes that were dramatic enough where a complete and total refund of skill points were necessary.

 

Game Update 1.2 - Legacy (4/12/2012)

 

Game Update 1.3 - Allies (6/26/2012)

 

Game Update 1.4 Terror From Beyond (9/26/2012)

 

 

Additionally... and possibly even more disturbing is that we have seen new features being held back to just to satisfy the "PvP Community". During Game Update 1.2 - Legacy there were legacy skills actually listed in the game named "Celerity I and Celerity II". These legacy skills were intended to give all of your characters in the legacy an increase to their sprint modifier. However when Game Update 1.3 - Allies hit PTS these abilities were mysteriously gone from the game. When asked why we were told the following by William Wallace:

 

 

Let's all be honest with each other for a moment here. PvP has no real place in this game. It's not part of the story. It almost seems to be an afterthought as it is. There are only 4 maps (yes you reading that right... FOUR whole maps. Not even good ones) where the same 16 people are killing each other over and over again. So basically this game and its entire community is meant to suffer because the same tiny group of people complain over and over and over again and will never... and I mean NEVER be satisfied.

 

EA/BioWare: Stick to what you are good at which is... Interactive, Cinematic, Story Telling and Role Playing. Let these folks go kill each other over and over again in MW3 or COD3 or Halo4 or whatever pleases them. They represent such a minute portion of your subscriber base yet you are KILLING YOUR GAME trying to please them. They will never be satisfied and you will ultimately be left with nothing but an empty, twisted shell of what you set out to create.

 

Find the courage to develop the game that 99% of players want to really play. More story. More cooperative play. More customization. More role play. More progression.

 

Please completely remove PvP from SWTOR.

 

Uhhh no. There's little pvp options as it is currently. If anything they need to switch their focus to entirely fixing and adding onto pvp until they're able to spit out planetary pvp.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Xenith

[Xenith]

My argument? My argument is that they are unable to properly balance PvP in SWTOR. My argument is supported by the FACT that they've butchered the skill trees so badly in the past three game updates that they've had to refund skill points for everyone. Not just PvP'ers. Those are facts.

 

They refunded skill points not because they tore into the trees but because you have to whenever you make changes to a skill tree. This has nothing to do with the sate of the pvp.

 

My argument is that PvP'ers will NEVER be happy with balance in this game because this game is trying to accomplish too much. The scope is completely out of control and the game has failed. We went from over 200+ servers to 8. That is a fact.

 

They could be given everything they want and some of them still wouldn't be happy. If you don't like pvp in tor, don't do it. That's a better solution than removing something entirely because you personally don't like it. Just don't do it. Problem solved bucko.

[TridusSWTOR]

To everyone that is a PvE kid and thinks PvP should be removed....ever considered that maybe you are just not that good at the game? sorry that pve is too easy and you can't be good at the difficult part of the game.

 

It's people like you that give us real PVP fans a bad name. So whatever you hoped to accomplish has already been undone by your own post.

 

In other words, you owned yourself.

[Lunafox]

I totally agree with the OP. There is no satisfying pvpers. Ever. They will never find their perfect nirvana, because someone will always be more skilled, better geared, haxxing or whatever other excuse eases their shrivelled little epeens.

 

So many games try to suck up to pvpers. Let this one, be the one thing, that is for rp-ers and pver's.

[jgoldsack]

My argument? My argument is that they are unable to properly balance PvP in SWTOR. My argument is supported by the FACT that they've butchered the skill trees so badly in the past three game updates that they've had to refund skill points for everyone. Not just PvP'ers. Those are facts.

 

Not true at all. Sorry. Only a FEW classes got their talents reset. No where even close to everyone. Fact 1 is FALSE.

 

My argument is that features have been removed from this game because of PvP as referenced by the links in my OP. That is a fact.

 

I will give you that one, however minor the features that were removed are. Nevermind that PvP players lost out on a key feature too for a very long time (ranked, which is a joke anyway)

 

My argument is that PvP'ers will NEVER be happy with balance in this game because this game is trying to accomplish too much. The scope is completely out of control and the game has failed. We went from over 200+ servers to 8. That is a fact.

 

As opposed to PvE players who complain that content comes out too slow because they consume it as fast as it can come out? How long has PvP players been playing the same 4 warzones because Bioware has to cater to the PvE crowd who never seems to have enough stuff to do?

 

What games you play with yourself at home have nothing to do with my argument.

 

You were the one who said that Biowares customers are those who bought Mass Effect, KOTOR, etc. That is fact. I was just telling you that not everyone who bought those games is of the same opinion as you.

[Anzel]

I totally agree with the OP. There is no satisfying pvpers. Ever. They will never find their perfect nirvana, because someone will always be more skilled, better geared, haxxing or whatever other excuse eases their shrivelled little epeens.

 

So many games try to suck up to pvpers. Let this one, be the one thing, that is for rp-ers and pver's.

 

I just wish they had the nerve to do this and really succeed with SWTOR. How awesome would this game be with some stability? Some dedicated, focused content? They have such an opportunity here and they are repeating the exact same mistakes... and I mean the EXACT same mistakes that SOE did with SWG. I'm astonished really. It's like old John Smedley is back at the helm...

Edited October 15, 2012 by Anzel

[Petnil]

What kind of world would it be if repuplic cant attack sith ?? It just doesn´t make sense. Now, i dont pvp. I´ve tried lowlevel pvp 1 time and it didn´t apeal to be. I probably should have given it a chance but i didn´t. Still i would never suggest to remove pvp from swtor. The changes made for "pvp reasons" are stupid and not asked for by the pvp comunity. Just adapt.

 

"i shouldn´t have to adapt because of pvp changes"

 

the changes aren´t pvp changes. It´s just changes. They happen in all types of mmo´s. Even without pvp BW would still have to balance classes because of pve crying over some class does more dps that some other class. Some tanks are more viable than other tanks.

 

The Republic and The Imperials are at war. PvP makes sense. World pvp makes sense. I hate world pvp because of the stupid highlevels on lowlv quest areas seem to think it´s fun to kill lowbies who doesn´t have a chance to fight back. That´s the reason i dont like pvp servers. But it would make more sense to remove pve servers than to remove pvp.

[Meepbot]

As a guy who enjoys both sides of the game (still not really sure where I want to go with RP... but that's a different story), I read 10 pages of this thread..... Too much stuff I want to quote and disprove, on both sides.....

 

PvP is just as integral a part of the game as PvE. May I remind you they got 4 maps at the same time the PvE side got 3 ops, which is really all there is worth doing on the PvE side. PvPers QQ because the last patch notes doomed their class, or the next patch will ruin their class.... they get their fix and find new things to QQ about. PvEers complain and cry about FPs or Ops being to hard, they get their fix, then complain and cry that the content is too easy, and it needs to be more difficult. People spend millions on both sides trying to get BiS gear and augments. You want to try watching a vid on YouTube, "memorizing the dance steps", and executing them properly in your awesome WH gear? Go ahead, Ill sit back and watch you fail. You want to go into PvP with Columi/Rakata because you downed HM Soa once? Go ahead, Ill sit back and watch you fail. 10 meter stuns now? If you were stunning in PvE, you're doing it wrong, and now its more of a defensive tactic in PvP than an offensive one (I'm gonna get flamed for that one, oh boy ). Skill tree changes affect EVERYONE not just PvEers, and how is the merc change of venting 8 heat every 6 seconds a PvP change? I'm pretty sure the heat management problems were complained about by the PvEers. This is not just an RPG, it is an MMORPG. A massive multiplayer online game needs to bring a competitive edge for the players, that is PvP. A massive multiplayer online game needs to bring a cooperative edge for the players, that is PvE. A massive multiplayer online game needs to bring truly deep immersion into the story, that is RP. None of these elements can be removed from the game while trying to keep the game alive.

 

EDIT: I realize that no one (that I read) voted to get rid of RP, I'm just throwing it in there because it is also a core value of MMO's that cannot be removed

/rant

/thread

Edited October 15, 2012 by Meepbot

[Anzel]

As a guy who enjoys both sides of the game (still not really sure where I want to go with RP... but that's a different story), I read 10 pages of this thread..... Too much stuff I want to quote and disprove, on both sides.....

 

PvP is just as integral a part of the game as PvE. May I remind you they got 4 maps at the same time the PvE side got 3 ops, which is really all there is worth doing on the PvE side. PvPers QQ because the last patch notes doomed their class, or the next patch will ruin their class.... they get their fix and find new things to QQ about. PvEers complain and cry about FPs or Ops being to hard, they get their fix, then complain and cry that the content is too easy, and it needs to be more difficult. People spend millions on both sides trying to get BiS gear and augments. You want to try watching a vid on YouTube, "memorizing the dance steps", and executing them properly in your awesome WH gear? Go ahead, Ill sit back and watch you fail. You want to go into PvP with Columi/Rakata because you downed HM Soa once? Go ahead, Ill sit back and watch you fail. 10 meter stuns now? If you were stunning in PvE, you're doing it wrong, and now its more of a defensive tactic in PvP than an offensive one (I'm gonna get flamed for that one, oh boy ). Skill tree changes affect EVERYONE not just PvEers, and how is the merc change of venting 8 heat every 6 seconds a PvP change? I'm pretty sure the heat management problems were complained about by the PvEers. This is not just an RPG, it is an MMORPG. A massive multiplayer online game needs to bring a competitive edge for the players, that is PvP. A massive multiplayer online game needs to bring a cooperative edge for the players, that is PvE. A massive multiplayer online game needs to bring truly deep immersion into the story, that is RP. None of these elements can be removed from the game while trying to keep the game alive.

 

EDIT: I realize that no one (that I read) voted to get rid of RP, I'm just throwing it in there because it is also a core value of MMO's that cannot be removed

/rant

/thread

 

AHA! Why? Why do we need PvP? We don't. We don't need it. The PvP community has ruined... and I mean RUINED every MMO out there. The MMO space is littered with the carcases of games that have tried in the past.

 

Look, BioWare has found a winning formula with STORY, RP, Progression, Immersion. They have sold MILLIONS of copies of KOTOR and Mass Effect (1-3). None of those games had PvP and they were HUGE successes. That's why they go the license from LA in the first place.

 

Why they decided to deviate from that winning formula is beyond me. LOL. Look at their other games... all successes. Look at SWTOR... a colossal failure. They tried to do too much. The scope of the game is ridiculous. The people that spend all day every day in four tiny little war zones are better off playing XBOX Live. They represent a tiny minority of the community but they ruin the game for everyone. Good riddance I say. Go play WoW or MW3 or COD3 or HALO or whatever.

 

I wish BW would have the nerve to create something distinctive that people would actually want to play.

[kategreen]

Post all you want. PvP is here to stay. There's not much else to do post 50. I'd say the OP just isn't good at it. Such a pity.

[jgoldsack]

Look, BioWare has found a winning formula with STORY, RP, Progression, Immersion. They have sold MILLIONS of copies of KOTOR and Mass Effect (1-3). None of those games had PvP and they were HUGE successes. That's why they go the license from LA in the first place.

 

 

Nevermind the fact that those were SINGLE PLAYER games, not MMOs. See the key difference? No obviously you do not.

 

There is also a reason why games like Unreal Tournament were so popular too. They had no PvE, and they were HUGE successes!

 

And if you really think that the PvP community is just a tiny minority, then you really need to get your head out of the sand, because you are dead wrong.

Edited October 15, 2012 by jgoldsack

[kategreen]

Counter Strike. Still one of the most popular online games around. All PvP. All the time. Headshot! Unbelievable! Ludicrous Kill!

[Anzel]

Counter Strike. Still one of the most popular online games around. All PvP. All the time. Headshot! Unbelievable! Ludicrous Kill!

 

See? PvP only. Super popular. Right?

 

So we don't need a game to have everything to be successful? OK. I choose PvE then. After all, we already have a bunch of really awesome/popular PvP only games right?

[jgoldsack]

See? PvP only. Super popular. Right?

 

So we don't need a game to have everything to be successful? OK. I choose PvE then. After all, we already have a bunch of really awesome/popular PvP only games right?

 

But think of how good a game can be if it has both PvE and PvP.

 

I hate to break it to you, but PvP is not the reason SWTOR has low subscription rates. If anything, PvP is what is keeping the subs as high as they are, because it gives people something to do when they finish all their PvE content...

Edited October 15, 2012 by jgoldsack

[OldSpiceSwag]

hahahahahaha

[Meepbot]

Nevermind the fact that those were SINGLE PLAYER games, not MMOs. See the key difference? No obviously you do not.

 

jgold here has it right. comparing SWTOR to ME or even KOTOR is a mistake in the first place, because those are RPGs, not MMOs.

 

Counter Strike. Still one of the most popular online games around. All PvP. All the time. Headshot! Unbelievable! Ludicrous Kill!

 

This is the same mistake of comparing it to KOTOR or ME, CS is a FPS, not an MMO, therefore, its a completely different style of game. While it is PvP, its not the PvP that an MMO player wants.

 

See? PvP only. Super popular. Right?

 

So we don't need a game to have everything to be successful? OK. I choose PvE then. After all, we already have a bunch of really awesome/popular PvP only games right?

 

Once again, Youre making the mistake of comparing two games in completely separate genres. PvP in CS is different than PvP in SWTOR. An MMO is supposed to be a large game (hence the "massive" in massive multiplayer online), which has many different ways to play, and many things to do, you cant alienate a good portion of the player base just because you dont want to PvP, maybe some people do, and they want a MMO PvP experience. I made it easy for you to see there, so you can make a distinction.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Meepbot