Will the sages lightsaber become completely useless?

[Samaul]

I am wondering if the sages light saber is just a graphic and will actually be completely useless at higher levels due to the fact that the sages main attribute is Willpower and it only increases force damage and healing amounts.

 

I cannot see a sage ever taking gear with strength on it, so will it ever be worth using your basic saber attack and double strike instead of using force techniques?

 

I really enjoy the style of being able to run in and melee, heal, and toss force objects around. I am disappointed by what seems like the coming uselessness of the light saber due to no scaling on the sages melee attacks.

 

I have found my light saber useful in pve but suicidal in pvp. Seems like in pvp, trying to hit melee with your saber is like hanging a sign around your neck that says "please kill me, i am a silly noob".

[Henu]

Yes and no, worth upgrading for stats and i do use it in PVE a bit.

[Sharard]

I use it sometimes to finish off group mobs that surround you and have the sliver of health left. I do mostly because its where I can use it and feel jedish sometimes to hear the swoosh sound heh.

[Scorpionokuma]

Humm, i still use double strike a LOT, it still does more damage (300+) than disturbance (250+) but maybe i'm doing something wrong . Lvl 25 Sage in TK, respeccing to balance again because don't like the casting/standing still all the f*cking time.

[PelcPete]

So you want a Melee, ranged, CC, DPS, Healer... asking a little to much there I think.

Why not just throw in the ability to tank!

[Alesthes]

So you want a Melee, ranged, CC, DPS, Healer... asking a little to much there I think.

Why not just throw in the ability to tank!

 

This is called straw-man argument, technically. Depict the interlocutor as if claiming something he isn't and then proceed to criticize the false claim.

 

Nobody in this thread has asked for the sage to be a melee DPS class or, even less, a tank. It's just a desire to have a basic melee ability actually implemented in a somewhat meaningful way up to max level, exactly as it happens for the basic ranged abilities of our Shadow Consular counterpart. Pretty simple and, in my humble opinion, perfectly reasonable.

[Khadroth]

Humm, i still use double strike a LOT, it still does more damage (300+) than disturbance (250+) but maybe i'm doing something wrong . Lvl 25 Sage in TK, respeccing to balance again because don't like the casting/standing still all the f*cking time.

 

Project hits harder too, but that doesn't mean you should be using it as TK spec either (though yes it's still great for leveling purposes). People don't seem to get the fact that disturbance isn't meant to deal crazy dmg. Its your gateway/gap filler ability that procs all of your major procs save one (psychic projection), and keeps your regen at +30%. Most of your dps should be coming from weaken mind, turbulence auto-crits, tidal force procs for instant TKwaves, and psychic projection procs for double speed TKthrows.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Khadroth

[Shlamorel]

If anyone is interested, I came up with some ideas on how to incorporate the lightsaber into some of our attacks, including new ability ideas as well as graphics that could replace abilities we already have:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=64591

[JBarlak]

From what i have seen early on, the lightsaber is basically a "stat-stick" like we saw in Warcraft with Hunters. Just keep modding them up as you level up.

[Zyllos]

JBarlak, this is correct. And the sage community is voicing this as a problem.

[Scorpionokuma]

Project hits harder too, but that doesn't mean you should be using it as TK spec either (though yes it's still great for leveling purposes). People don't seem to get the fact that disturbance isn't meant to deal crazy dmg. Its your gateway/gap filler ability that procs all of your major procs save one (psychic projection), and keeps your regen at +30%. Most of your dps should be coming from weaken mind, turbulence auto-crits, tidal force procs for instant TKwaves, and psychic projection procs for double speed TKthrows.

 

Yeah, you're right, i just don't like the flow of battle atm with TK. I respecced into balance and have a blast with the class again. Still use double strike on opponents with 2% hp, just to finish them off. I got theran now in healing mode and it really complements the balance fighting style. Also the PoM version of disturbance is awesome .

Thanks for your input.

[Ralnity]

If you want a comparison my basic no cost melee attack does around 50 dmg at lvl 46, even force wave which is a knockback with very little dmg does 250 dmg...

 

 

This is BS. My doublestrike at 45 easily does 400+ damage, so i'm sure my no cost attack does more than 50.

 

That being said, it's still better to throw any other ability you have in most situations unless the thing is so low it will die from that one hit. It only costs 25 force power, so it's better than chucking a project in the rare case that one double strike will finish something.

 

For the most part, your saber is a stat stick. If you want to melee and use force powers you need to go shadow.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Ralnity

[Brittaany_Banks]

JBarlak, this is correct. And the sage community is voicing this as a problem.

 

This. Start asking for more dps on the saber and they will nerf things like healing.

[BattojutsuFan]

I doubt that the argument is asking for more DPS, just the ability to use the saber in combat. There is a big difference.

 

I personally love Melee Healers (ever since WAR.) I would have been great to see some talents to add to melee abilities to gather force to use in Heals or what have you. I dont think this would be game breaking, it would be a trade-off as you are getting close to danger in order to power up your force, and further it seems like a very thematic element.

[Demondaze]

I have played a sage up to level 23, and a large chunk of that was via PVP....I think that they should just make those 2 melee abilities give you back a small amount of force instead of costing force. Either that or give them a small slow like 30%

[Rhoark]

It really annoys me that all these threads attract a chorus of people yelling "sages are ranged attackers that don't use lightsabers". Congratulations on identifying the problem.

 

Jedis use lightsabers. Sages are jedis. Therefore, sages should use lightsabers. If that doesn't fit with the current balance landscape, then they need to rebuild the game mechanics, even from ground zero, if that's what it takes to involve lightsabers. That doesn't mean turning sages into a melee class. It can be just a graphics/animation change when the target is close enough; a finishing strike; or a strike whose main purpose is something other than damage (debuff or force regeneration).

 

Bottom line is the class is broken as long as lightsabers are just for decoration.

[SithEater]

It really annoys me that all these threads attract a chorus of people yelling "sages are ranged attackers that don't use lightsabers". Congratulations on identifying the problem.

 

Jedis use lightsabers. Sages are jedis. Therefore, sages should use lightsabers. If that doesn't fit with the current balance landscape, then they need to rebuild the game mechanics, even from ground zero, if that's what it takes to involve lightsabers. That doesn't mean turning sages into a melee class. It can be just a graphics/animation change when the target is close enough; a finishing strike; or a strike whose main purpose is something other than damage (debuff or force regeneration).

 

Bottom line is the class is broken as long as lightsabers are just for decoration.

Broken because its working exactly as intended? Nobody is stopping you from using melee attacks, you can melee all you want. What they are stopping you from doing is having melee attacks that are anywhere near as powerful as your MAIN attacks. Melee attacks are NOT a core ability of the class. Your class is Sage Consular and not Consular. Your core abilities changed the second you picked your Advanced Class.

 

Jedi use lightsabers. You are a Jedi. You use a lightsaber. You can attack and do damage with your lightsaber. End of story and should be the end of the complaining but people wanting everything EXACTLY how they want it and nothing else will suffice will never change. Unfortunately.

[Jedibezy]

Clearly the lightsaber will just be a "stat stick", which is a shame. I enjoy the integration of melee and ranged that Smugglers/Imperial Agents have. I don't see why such a system couldn't have been part of the Jedi Consular. If the Jedi Consular is indeed based off of Obi-Wan (this is according to the "story" section at the create a character screen), then it makes even less sense for Jedi Consular's to not use their lightsaber. Ben Kenobi clashed sabers with some of the biggest names in Star Wars... he didn't sit back and cast.

[Felioats]

Broken because its working exactly as intended? Nobody is stopping you from using melee attacks, you can melee all you want. What they are stopping you from doing is having melee attacks that are anywhere near as powerful as your MAIN attacks. Melee attacks are NOT a core ability of the class. Your class is Sage Consular and not Consular. Your core abilities changed the second you picked your Advanced Class.

 

Jedi use lightsabers. You are a Jedi. You use a lightsaber. You can attack and do damage with your lightsaber. End of story and should be the end of the complaining but people wanting everything EXACTLY how they want it and nothing else will suffice will never change. Unfortunately.

 

Why is it that people who are, for whatever baffling reason, anti-lightsaber, totally incapable of grasping the ideas that 1) Lightsabers can be thrown, and 2) Class designs can change?

[Marcusgaius]

Giving us the ability to throw the lightsaber would be cool.

 

However, I think the consular is a different archetype of Jedi. Consular has a deeper understanding of the force granting them the ability to manipulate the essential energies in a more pure manner. They know the basics of the lightsaber yet they did not pursue the intense combat uses of it like the Knight has.

 

A Consular carries a lightsaber because all Jedi carry lightsabers. they do know how to use it yet they surpassed it's martial function for a more direct way of channeling the force. They are sages, not warriors. Capable of dealing heavy damage with their knowledge of the force but not particularly skilled or interested in the martial attributes of the order.

 

I think it makes perfect sense that a Consular wouldn't use their lightsaber as anything more than a badge of office, they are arbiters and thinkers, not the essential warrior the Knight is meant to be.

 

Just my opinion of the reasoning behind it.

[SithEater]

Why is it that people who are, for whatever baffling reason, anti-lightsaber, totally incapable of grasping the ideas that 1) Lightsabers can be thrown, and 2) Class designs can change?

Why are people constantly looking at other classes and saying why can't I do that too? Why..cause you chose this class and not another one. I am not anti-lightsaber I am anti everyone doing everything till all classes become a giant pile of mush. Edited December 30, 2011 by SithEater

[smartalectwo]

Empire Strikes Back Yoda, rather than Prequels Yoda.

 

But yes, the materials mention a lot of non-combat Jedi who are not Knights - healers, agricultural specialists, researchers, diplomats - who carry lightsabers but for mainly symbolic reasons. We're one of those guys. Particularly hardcore ones, but still.

Edited December 30, 2011 by smartalectwo

[underbridge]

I took my last saber attack off my hotkey bar when I got force quake and in truth, I don't think I'd used it for days before that.

 

Having them on your bar in pvp is actually a hindrance imho. If you're using your ls, your not using the ability you should be using :shrug:

 

The only reason I bother upgrading the useless bat is for the stat upgrades

 

 

Bottom line is the class is broken as long as lightsabers are just for decoration.

 

I don't disagree with you but the class works well without such a 'fix', so why change the tyres from Pirelli's to Conti's? Seems like a lot of work for no real benefit.

Edited December 30, 2011 by underbridge

[DaBanks]

I don't see any reason for a Jedi Sage to need a competitive use for their lightsaber. There are 3 other ACs that use the saber and if you find it a large enough part of your gameplay then, and this is just my opinion, you should have chosen one of them. Any small amount of reading would have told you beforehand that the Sage uses the force and not sabers. If Bioware was to put in lightsaber abilities that were part of the standard, accepted rotation then all Sages would then feel the need to be in melee all the time. I had this issue with my Warlock on WoW when it came to shadowflame and it takes an awful lot away from the playstyle for me. The people like Fox_McCloud who are arguing that it is "bad game design" to include abilities like Double Strike as "core abilities" to the class need to step back a moment and think about something. Double Strike is by no means a Sage core ability. It is a level 1 Consular ability given to you before you ever become a Sage. There are numerous examples that could be given but with WoW being the most well known game to use as an example do all Mages use Fireball, a level 1 ability? Do all warlocks use Shadow Bolt? Or a more applicable example, do all Shaman use Primal Strike, a melee ability gained at level 3 and one of your primary attacks until you choose your specialization? No, of course not, if you want to go melee you choose Enhancement.