Rookie juggernaut question regarding build in pvp / pve.

[tatatan]

Hi guys,

i'm full immortal tank, with this spec.:

skill calculator

 

As you note, there is few minor 'tweaks' regarding PVP (eg 45 sec Force push). As i started pvp a bit after lv 50, i noticed, that for example 'Crushing blow' (31pt Immortal spec) is not as useful for me there.

I already acquired Battlemaster armor (rest is still rookie gear) so my survivability is still not as i'd expect from tank, but anyway here goes q:

 

I noticed as studying Vengeance tree, that there is some nice utilities, that i'd say are 'tanky' - e.g. 'Unstoppable'. I dont understand why it is not in tank tree, but anyway - i'm thinking now about playing with hybrid builds. Which would be OK for PVP, i'm very sure - but in PVE??

If i still want to do good tank job in PVE, how much points do I have to keep there??

 

Anyone has experience with being Immortal / Vengeance PVP and same in PVE?

[KVork]

In high end PVE (HM T1 ops, denova in any flavor, some FP depending on gear level) you need full immortal to tank succesfully. I would swap hybrid one for full tank any day, but for lower 50s PVE? Meh, even full vengeance can do it in tank gear.

 

In PVP you definitely want hybrid spec with Impale, force crush and Invincible , but as said, when you get in mood for serious ops, respec to full immortal.

 

PS, yes, tank tree is more or less broken since beta, some claim to this day that hybrid tank is better than full Immortal, and sometimes it is hard to argue with it.

PS2, Stagger - seriously? one of most useless skills. Take Intimidation instead, free spamable, aoe snare is 10 times better than once in a while single target 0.5s snare... Or take malice and some crit % on your scream/smash/choke

Edited September 17, 2012 by KVork

[tatatan]

Thanks for advice.

Hmm, so it is as it thought ... (i hate respeccing and rebinding of keys)

As for my current situation, i'll probably stay full tank until i'll be able to get better gear, that would mitigate my defensive abilities lost in the immortal ...

Hm and as for that 'Stagger' you're right, i thought it'll have bigger effect in PVP, stunning target i leapt to, but i found it is no big deal anyway ...

[tatatan]

In this thread: Immortal / vengeance DPS

the jamescloutier says:

 

Since a couple of weeks after 1.3 I've played the Imm/Veng hybred for tanking. I clear EC HM every week for about a month now (I know this isn't some sort of badge but trying to put into context the content I've seen). I went to this build for a couple of reasons, 1 of which was I felt like I generated more threat quicker and was able to hold mobs better. I do find that holding argo is still a bit touchy for the first 15-20s. For this time I do put my taunts in my rotation and I find nothing wrong with doing so...

 

So i see the Immortal / Vengeance is possible then even for the higher level content? I'm a bit confused now, as someone says only Immortal, other say hybrid ... so how is it?

[Pancakes]

I've played full immortal and hybrid spec, and cleared HM EC many times. I'm sticking with hybrid for a few reasons.

 

1 - 4% damage passive mitigation because of deafening defense, and 15% damage reduction while enraged defense is active. (Not wise to use in PvE situations unless its for kephiss bleed swaps or something similar.)

2 - Unstoppable is just amazing.

3 - An option to DPS if you just need 1 tank.

 

The only cons is that your threat isn't so good for the first few seconds. That can be remedied by a power stim and guard on that player who tends to pull (IE MM snipers or PTs) in the first few seconds of the fight. Personally, I feel the last 2 points should go to smash for the AoE threat instead of impale or choke unless you PvP more than you PvE.

 

I would say go for what suits you best because they both are good specs. For me I feel full immortal just doesn't cut it in PvP since i usually pug and have no time to run rateds with guildies. (Immortal has more CCs IE imp choke and backhand).

[tatatan]

@ op: could you kindly share your build? thanks!

[CitizenFry]

For taking the least amount of damage in PVE, the hybrid build is best. Deafening Defense is roughly equivalent to Dark Blood + Shield Specialization. Combined with the reduced cooldown on Force Scream, you come out way ahead. You lose out on rage generation from Sweeping Fury and Revenge, but you gain some of it back with free Smashes courtesy of Ruin.

[Elyx]

The only issue I run into in PvE with hybrid is rage starvation. In PuG runs (where mob direction is wild and often you are chasing multiple mobs) I feel it clearly. not as much in a controlled Op with the guild. but then again, i run all my HM FP's in full vengeance now. only thing I really respec for is EC. And im not even close to optimized (no set bonuses...mix of columi/rakata/BH, etc.).

 

I'm sure an optimized tank could get away with hybrid in a guild controlled Op just fine. but YMMV, as always.

[Aresnar]

Would you guys mind linking some of your Hybrid builds? Another Rookie Jugg here and I wouldn't mind some guidance.

[carlosg]

In the fourth line of my signature you can see a link to my guide thread, it is aimed for PvP but I also tank in PvE with that spec and I do just fine in HM EC with it, I don't miss any of the other Immortal talents, the gear is more important than the spec for tanking PvE, I have a full rakata set, it's not even that great, but I do HM EC just fine with that spec.

 

If you don't wanna check the guide just see the spec here: http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_warrior/juggernaut/#::fdefe3fe3fefe3f2efef2e2f4e2dfe2fef20:

[Caprindo]

This is definitely a good advice thread. For my 1 cent: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101GMGzudrdszZfMM.2

That is what has been getting my level 27 around so far. Only had a problem taking Rathari, and I solved that by screaming, hitting call on force accidently, and then wiping the spittle off my screen.

Would be free to constructive criticism still. or E-cookies.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Caprindo
Forgot something