TOR is amazing! =) ...But the game management is awful :(

[SpazCats]

What TOR needs is this:

 

1) Implement the free-to-play model in conjunction with a television / gaming magazine ad campaign immediately, before that new free-to-play war of guilds 2 can solidify their player base.

 

2) Don't restrict the free-to-play model in ways that will annoy players.

 

This game is solid. It doesn't *need* more than this right now. It competes very well with the other MMOs on the market.

 

The game state right now is far from all rosy and good. The loss of subs, the move to F2P so soon in its lifespan, the serious lack of communication from Bioware, and you don't think this game needs any thing more than an ad campaign and don't annoy F2P players with too many restrictions? Really?

 

IMO, the reasons why so many subs were lost so soon needs to be addressed, or the F2P players will leave after the storyline quest as well. Lack of regular content updates and events is a big one, and things to do in between updates, other than run FP's, Ops and warzones.

 

This games *needs* much more to survive at this point. It's just the way it is. Hopefully Bioware will manage to turn things around.

[Kraye]

Ok thanks have a great day.

 

You are very welcome and thankyou but I am already having a superlative day!

[turjake]

Massive sub losses and massive server shutdowns are not opinion, going F2P because TOR is failing is not opinion, lol, they are fact. And no , I do not like the game nor will I ever so you can take your "hope" and spend it on world peace or some crazy thing

 

The rest of your post on the other hand is mainly opinions mixed with grains of truths. Your main point (tor is horrible...) was pure opinion and even your reasons why people left are just guesswork.

 

Anyway you can like or not like the game, I dont care since I dont know you. Personally I am wondering why are you here and not playing something else you both like with your friend, but that is your business.

[Kraye]

The rest of your post on the other hand is mainly opinions mixed with grains of truths. Your main point (tor is horrible...) was pure opinion and even your reasons why people left are just guesswork.

 

Anyway you can like or not like the game, I dont care since I dont know you. Personally I am wondering why are you here and not playing something else you both like with your friend, but that is your business.

 

TOR is a failure that drove off so many players its going F2P to squeeze the lemon dry, nice that you agree just not on the how is fine My friend wants to play TOR and that was already made clear but your ability to comprehend is your business:p

[Andryah]

Now things around here do not need to be like this. As a player of this game from day one, a committed guild leader, and a fan of Star Wars and TOR, I am asking for the leadership of this product to please step it up, take some charge, and don’t be content to stand idly by as a very decent MMO continues to sink. I am very open to being contacted by the management of TOR to help out or to offer further (and specific) plans of action to inject life into this game to stimulate its revival.

 

I’m certain many other dedicated TOR players/fans feel the same way.

 

Sorry, as a dedicated player/fan, I disagree with you. And I resent you trying to speak for myself or other fans without our consent.

 

I don't rely on, much less demand or pontificate about developer communications. I learned years ago that it is not only pointless, it's generally non-constructive and all it does is work up a crowd of negative diatribes.

 

Do they communicate as much as the populace would like? Nope. Does it really matter if you are actually a fan (as you claim), NO not really. It only matters because you want it to matter.

 

TL;DR - I'm fine with the communications as they are. They are about par for MMO developers, so nothing to see here IMO.

[Andryah]

TOR is a failure that drove off so many players its going F2P to squeeze the lemon dry, nice that you agree just not on the how is fine My friend wants to play TOR and that was already made clear but your ability to comprehend is your business:p

 

SWTOR may not have lived up to it's largely player induced hype and hyperbole, but it is far from a failure. It is as successful on a % of subscriptions retention (your choice of argument, not mine) basis as Rift over the same time frame, and most people laud Rift as a success.

 

As for F2P, well if you did any objective checking on the internet about evolving business models for MMOs, you would see that market forces, not the games success, is what is driving the move to a two tier freemium access model, which by the way is not actually F2P.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Andryah

[Urael]

@LeonBraun:

 

What you posted has nothing to do with the SUBJECT of this thread.

 

What you ostensibly posted was a post on "communications" concerning SWTOR by The Community Team.

 

I agree with you in part but, I do see the community team as being a bit more active and forth coming these days.

 

That said, you never stated and "example" of what you "feel" is mismanagement of SWTOR "at the highest levels". This thread was not really about that at all. You just ranted on communications and became yet another post on this subject that appears daily.

 

@Everyone reading this thread:

 

*jedi finger wiggle* This is not the post you are looking for. Nothing to see here. Move along.

 

Edited September 17, 2012 by Urael

[Kraye]

SWTOR may not have lived up to it's largely player induced hype and hyperbole, but it is far from a failure. It is as successful on a % of subscriptions retention (your choice of argument, not mine) basis as Rift over the same time frame, and most people laud Rift as a success.

 

As for F2P, well if you did any objective checking on the internet about evolving business models for MMOs, you would see that market forces, not the games success, is what is driving the move to a two tier freemium access model, which by the way is not actually F2P.

 

If TOR was doing well then it could keep its sub model because people are willing to pay, like Rift and others.TOR going F2P is the direct result of people realizing its simply not worth the sub fee. TOR's continual failure has created the atmosphere in which the only way to squeeze out a few more dollars is by going F2P or shutdown entirely.

[Jacen_Starsolo]

If TOR was doing well then it could keep its sub model because people are willing to pay, like Rift and others.TOR going F2P is the direct result of people realizing its simply not worth the sub fee. TOR's continual failure has created the atmosphere in which the only way to squeeze out a few more dollars is by going F2P or shutdown entirely.

 

And they are probably on a shorter leash with EA than Paragon Studios was with NCSoft. If the Cartel shop doesn't produce enough income after the change, this game will be shut down by EA and/or Lucas.

[Tim-ONeil]

I believe a big part of this can be resolved by additional active participation by the community team and devs on the forum. Yes, this forum. It's cool to have Facebook, Twiiter, Reddit, etc all covered but this is the only space on the web that is 100% devoted to THIS game. They need a bigger presence here.

 

Ok, so they don't have anything new to say but can't you add to player discussion and pretend you care about the game? Example, threads about lore, game play style, etc should have a bioware community rep response. It would show us that you actually play your own product and care about it enough to have an opinion on things, even if you post a disclaimer that it's your opinion only.

 

This isn't a SWG is better thread but I remember when I first started playing Thunderheart and Twiggs the CM's for SWG would post at least 10-12 things daily. He was passionate about his job because he was actually a huge fan of the game prior to being hired as a CM. We need that same level of interest.

 

I fully appreciate their efforts to reach out to developers but it would be even better if they were engaged in the community in ways that are non official as well. More communication, even when it seems like it's non essential says volumes more for the health of the game than the current pace of information flow.

[Andryah]

If TOR was doing well then it could keep its sub model because people are willing to pay, like Rift and others.TOR going F2P is the direct result of people realizing its simply not worth the sub fee. TOR's continual failure has created the atmosphere in which the only way to squeeze out a few more dollars is by going F2P or shutdown entirely.

 

You need to research more, and opinionate less IMO, about a business model you clearly do not understand.

 

Moving to a freemium dual access model (it's not actually F2P) is a smart business move as it opens the game up to a wider player base with a broader set of choices in how each player wants to play. And if correctly monitized, the free side of the operation makes as much or more money as the subscription side. If they monitize incorrectly, then they fail, but the market for freemium is well researched and player habits well understood in terms of "free", so I'm pretty sure they will do well on this (rocket science it is not).

 

You don't have to like the idea of freemium, but it's big in the industry, getting bigger every day, and is not going away. There very likely will be few, if any, actual subscription only MMOs in the industry moving forward. Blizzard will never release a subscription MMO again, ever. And that realization will drive every other MMO producer in the same direction that is not already headed there. I give Bioware credit for moving sooner, rather then later.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Andryah

[Kraye]

You need to research more, and opinionate less IMO, about a business model you clearly do not understand.

 

Moving to a freemium dual access model (it's not actually F2P) is a smart business move as it opens the game up to a wider player base with a broader set of choices in how each player wants to play. And if correctly monitized, the free side of the operation makes as much or more money as the subscription side. If they monitize incorrectly, then they fail, but the market for freemium is well researched and player habits well understood in terms of "free", so I'm pretty sure they will do well on this (rocket science it is not).

 

You don't have to like the idea of freemium, but it's big in the industry, getting bigger every day, and is not going away. There very likely will be few, if any, actual subscription only MMOs in the industry moving forward. Blizzard will never release a subscription MMO again, ever. And that realization will drive every other MMO producer in the same direction that is not already headed there. I give Bioware credit for moving sooner, rather then later.

 

1. Massive sub losses

2. Massive server shutdowns (more coming)

3. Massive layoffs

4. Massive profit losses

 

F2P by any other name.........necessary or TOR was going to shutdown entirely. You need to take off the beer goggles and look at the reality of the situation.

[Ardicus]

You need to research more, and opinionate less IMO, about a business model you clearly do not understand.

 

Moving to a freemium dual access model (it's not actually F2P) is a smart business move as it opens the game up to a wider player base with a broader set of choices in how each player wants to play. And if correctly monitized, the free side of the operation makes as much or more money as the subscription side. If they monitize incorrectly, then they fail, but the market for freemium is well researched and player habits well understood in terms of "free", so I'm pretty sure they will do well on this (rocket science it is not).

 

You don't have to like the idea of freemium, but it's big in the industry, getting bigger every day, and is not going away. There very likely will be few, if any, actual subscription only MMOs in the industry moving forward. Blizzard will never release a subscription MMO again, ever. And that realization will drive every other MMO producer in the same direction that is not already headed there. I give Bioware credit for moving sooner, rather then later.

 

Andryah,

 

I agree wholeheartedly with you on this aspect. Not only will this most likely bring more players, a freemium account is what attracts. limit freebies with what they can actually partake in is a decent way to keep the paid subs happy as well. F2P is borderline as described by Andryah, but brings in more players and that aspect is always good, though they will be limited on how many WZ's, Ops, HM's etc a day. they can still hit level cap and still enjoy the game. A healthy game is actually based on its player base, and what they (the devs) can produce.

 

You can't make everyone happy, but you can feed the masses with content and that my friends is what keeps games alive. I for one will continue paid sub, and enjoy the perks alongside of the collectors edition perks as the game progresses. I am a leader in a thriving guild as well, and we too are adjusting some for the freebie player accounts to come in. Just because they are free subs doesn't mean they don't know how to play or can't play. And Honestly, the majority got into this game because of the game and have stuck with it from alpha, beta, and release. and definitely doesn't mean a game is dead or dieing as many "gamers" want to say.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Ardicus

[Urael]

1. Massive sub losses

2. Massive server shutdowns (more coming)

3. Massive layoffs

4. Massive profit losses

 

F2P by any other name.........necessary or TOR was going to shutdown entirely. You need to take off the beer goggles and look at the reality of the situation.

 

A reasoned response was given to your "broken record" ( you are posting this same drivel in every thread today it seems). It is you that needs to "take of your beer goggles". You have illustrated ( as many here on these forums do ) that you are incapable of a reasoned debate. You and your ilk have your "opinions" and will fight to lead others into error with louder and louder screeds the more each is disproven. Do you not know by now that any reasoned person sees through your smoke? But, you echo the call "I will not serve" which each posting. Because it is you who rail at truth.

[BuddyRufus]

You need to research more, and opinionate less IMO, about a business model you clearly do not understand.

 

Moving to a freemium dual access model (it's not actually F2P) is a smart business move as it opens the game up to a wider player base with a broader set of choices in how each player wants to play. And if correctly monitized, the free side of the operation makes as much or more money as the subscription side. If they monitize incorrectly, then they fail, but the market for freemium is well researched and player habits well understood in terms of "free", so I'm pretty sure they will do well on this (rocket science it is not).

 

You don't have to like the idea of freemium, but it's big in the industry, getting bigger every day, and is not going away. There very likely will be few, if any, actual subscription only MMOs in the industry moving forward. Blizzard will never release a subscription MMO again, ever. And that realization will drive every other MMO producer in the same direction that is not already headed there. I give Bioware credit for moving sooner, rather then later.

 

Well said!

 

1. Massive sub losses

2. Massive server shutdowns (more coming)

3. Massive layoffs

4. Massive profit losses

 

F2P by any other name.........necessary or TOR was going to shutdown entirely. You need to take off the beer goggles and look at the reality of the situation.

 

Sorry, but Andryah is correct. The market is shifting towards the F2P/Freemium model. Subscription is no longer the way to go. It hasn't been for a while now. You really like to beat these 4 points around don't you?

Edited September 17, 2012 by BuddyRufus

[Andryah]

1. Massive sub losses

2. Massive server shutdowns (more coming)

3. Massive layoffs

4. Massive profit losses

 

F2P by any other name.........necessary or TOR was going to shutdown entirely. You need to take off the beer goggles and look at the reality of the situation.

 

Nonsense, with a good coating of "massive" hyperbole.

 

1) Actually sub losses to date .... almost itentical to Rift on a % basis, and pretty normal for the modern MMO.

 

2) Massive layoffs? What exactly is massive? By all objective appearances, they resized their workforce to match post launch populations. Hardly massive.

 

3) As for massive profit losses, so far there has been no indication of profit losses for this game by EA official financial reporting. In fact, they made it clear that the game is and will remain profitable, which makes sense since they run it as a business. If subs go down, they replan expenses accordingly to stay profitable. If subs (or better yet, active accounts under the freemium model) increase, with resulting increases in revenue, then they can add back plan costs (ie: labor) to the game and still remain proftiable.

 

Please stop with the massive hyperbole.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Andryah

[Kraye]

A reasoned response was given to your "broken record" ( you are posting this same drivel in every thread today it seems). It is you that needs to "take of your beer goggles". You have illustrated ( as many here on these forums do ) that you are incapable of a reasoned debate. You and your ilk have your "opinions" and will fight to lead others into error with louder and louder screeds the more each is disproven. Do you not know by now that any reasoned person sees through your smoke? But, you echo the call "I will not serve" which each posting. Because it is you who rail at truth.

 

Truth is truth, you and others just don't like to come to terms with reality. So, for the sake of brevity.......189 servers shutdown....fact.

[Andryah]

Truth is truth, you and others just don't like to come to terms with reality.

 

Irony in action.

 

 

189 servers shutdown....fact.

 

Fact: 100 too many servers at launch, because they gave in to player QQ demanding queueless access to the game.

 

Fact: Server transfers opened, and players consolidated onto healthy populations, on a more reasonable number of servers.

 

Fact: just like Rift, 60-65% of players left the game within the first 9 months of the game. Just like Rift, the company opened server transfers, and started locking low pop servers to force people to consolidate into active and healthy populations.

 

Fact: the game is over 500K subs now 9 months after launch, making it the number two subscription MMO in the western market, and number 3 in the western market (if you include both sub and non-sub).

 

Fact: game is doing fine, regardless of your attempts at hyperbole.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Andryah

[Ardicus]

1. Massive sub losses

2. Massive server shutdowns (more coming)

3. Massive layoffs

4. Massive profit losses

 

F2P by any other name.........necessary or TOR was going to shutdown entirely. You need to take off the beer goggles and look at the reality of the situation.

 

1. Massive Sub losses: (i agree there was a large amount of subs canceled during the 1st quarter which can not be argued.)

 

2. Massive Server shut downs: As in most MMOs, ALWAYS plan for more sub influx for the first month or two to get numbers matched for business. Vanilla WOW did the same thing, EQ, SB, UO etc.

 

3. Massive layoffs: After the release of most games, layoffs happen. Its expected and the ones layed off know that their job is contractual at the time during development.

 

4.Massive profit loss: No not really, if you ever get a chance to view how much they put into creation, the subs and payoffs for the acting etc, you will find that Bioware is still i the green for the most part. with the new plan to introduce the freebie accounts, they should ring in more subs especially with 1.4 coming shortly.

[Urael]

Truth is truth, you and others just don't like to come to terms with reality. So, for the sake of brevity.......189 servers shutdown....fact.

 

Just because you imitate "Barney Stinson" (poorly I might add) and parrot your same screed in each thread doesn't correct your overall misconceptions.

 

This is what has been stated before and you continually fail to even give an indication that you understand what is actually going on with todays MMORPG marketplace:

 

1. Fact: SWTOR is at or above the "break even" point to keep the game running.
   
2. Fact: The "above" break even point means that SWTOR is making EA/BW some modest proffit.
   
3. Fact: Freemium models increase the "active player pool".
   
4. Fact: Properly monitized, Freemium games actually pull as much cash if not more than Standard Subscription models.
   
5. Fact: The industry is moving in this direction because today's MMOPRG consumer seems to favor this model.
   

 

From your lack of reasoned responses the following has been reveiled:

1. Observation: You don't understand basic economics
   
2. Observation: You don't understand the rules of debate
   
3. Observation: You will not acknowledge when you have been bested ( and you have many, many times over)
   

 

You are correct on one thing though, the truth is the truth. It is unfortunate that you parade about in your "new suit" and can not see that it is woefully lacking.

[Kraye]

Irony in action.

 

 

 

 

Fact: 100 too many servers at launch, because they gave in to player QQ demanding queueless access to the game.

 

Fact: Server transfers opened, and players consolidated onto healthy populations, on a more reasonable number of servers.

 

Fact: just like Rift, 60-65% of players left the game within the first 9 months of the game. Just like Rift, the company opened server transfers, and started locking low pop servers to force people to consolidate into active and healthy populations.

 

Fact: the game is over 500K subs now 9 months after launch, making it the number two subscription MMO in the western market, and number 3 in the western market (sub or free).

 

Fact: game is doing fine, regardless of your attempts at hyperbole.

 

Rift is not going F2P, Rift did not fail and will be sub model for a long time. Rift did not close 189 servers and lose so many players that going F2P is the only way to save a sinking ship, Rift is thriving. TOR does not have 500k subs unless EA ordered to much food from Subway for all the employees and their families at Bioware. TOR is doing so bad it has yet to fully repay its investors and is going F2P so it doesn't shutdown forever. The game is doing horrible despite your attempts at hyperbole.

[Kraye]

Just because you imitate "Barney Stinson" (poorly I might add) and parrot your same screed in each thread doesn't correct your overall misconceptions.

 

This is what has been stated before and you continually fail to even give an indication that you understand what is actually going on with todays MMORPG marketplace:

 

1. Fact: SWTOR is at or above the "break even" point to keep the game running.
   
2. Fact: The "above" break even point means that SWTOR is making EA/BW some modest proffit.
   
3. Fact: Freemium models increase the "active player pool".
   
4. Fact: Properly monitized, Freemium games actually pull as much cash if not more than Standard Subscription models.
   
5. Fact: The industry is moving in this direction because today's MMOPRG consumer seems to favor this model.
   

 

From your lack of reasoned responses the following has been reveiled:

1. Observation: You don't understand basic economics
   
2. Observation: You don't understand the rules of debate
   
3. Observation: You will not acknowledge when you have been bested ( and you have many, many times over)
   

 

You are correct on one thing though, the truth is the truth. It is unfortunate that you parade about in your "new suit" and can not see that it is woefully lacking.

 

TOR lost so many players that it shutdown 189 servers, has had massive layoffs, has yet repay investors (let alone profit) and is going F2P in a mad scramble to salvage what little they can. They failed and are squeezing the lemon dry before complete failure.....basic economics.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Kraye

[BuddyRufus]

TOR lost so many players that it shutdown 189 servers, has had massive layoffs, has yet repay investors (let alone profit) and is going F2P in a mad scramble to salvage what little they can. They failed and are squeezing the lemon dry before complete failure.....basic economics.

 

......repeating yourself does not make you any more correct than you were before. Also, please stop referring to that lemon analogy.

[Khevar]

Kraye, would you be happier of TOR recovered and was successful? Or would you be happier if it failed and shut down completely so you could tell people how right you always were? Edited September 17, 2012 by Khevar

[Kraye]

......repeating yourself does not make you any more correct than you were before. Also, please stop referring to that lemon analogy.

 

Pot calling the kettle black.